markrivett's page

Is there a resource anyone knows of that evaluates class strengths and weaknesses in a relatively simple way?

I'm moving through the Beginners Box, but want to give my players a simple tool for evaluating what class they would like to be for a longer campaign.

Something simple like a 1-to-3-point scale or 1-to-5-point scale for general concepts like toughness, damage, combat control, healing, skills, and versatility for each class.

Thank You

I'm studying this adventure path, and I haven't found any reference to how The Broken Tusks (and the Burning Mammoths) cross the river to Gleaming Sun Lake then the other river of their way to Red Cat Cave?

Do most GMs just assume that, being that the tribes are extremely familiar with the terrain, know how to ford a river?

I don't see where the adventure path address a couple points that I, as the GM, may be overthinking?:

I thought the setting just came out of winter and is now in spring. Normally this would mean rivers are taking in all the melted water and are high, fast, rough, etc.

There are at least 3 newborn babies traveling across these rivers.

Is this something I don't really don't need to/shouldn't need to be concerned with?

If there isn't any reference to crossing these rivers in the adventure path, is it a good idea/bad idea/neither good nor bad idea to homebrew some increased drama around these crossings?

Thank you in advance.

Hello,

I feel like this is sound logic, but I wanted to run it by the community. I'm thinking about building a monk who wants to be able to do the following...

1st level feat: Monastic Weaponry
https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=434

The important bit here is: "You can use melee monk weapons with any of your monk feats or monk abilities that normally require unarmed attacks, though not if the feat or ability requires you to use a single specific type of attack, such as Crane Stance."

Equipment: Hook Swords in each hand
https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=287

They have the twin trait
https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=197
The important bit is: "When you attack with a twin weapon, you add a circumstance bonus to the damage roll equal to the weapon’s number of damage dice if you have previously attacked with a different weapon of the same type this turn."

I assume, based on the text of Monastic Weapon, I can use Hook Swords when using Flurry of Blows
https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=9

For one action I "make two unarmed strikes" using a single attack roll with a -5 penalty (Hook Swords are not agile).
If I hit, the damage is 1d6 +strength mod +1d6 +strength mod +1 for twin trait

I'm really just asking whether the "twin" trait circumstance bonus (in this case, +1) is "baked in" to flurry of blows.

I like the versatility of hook swords, but is the +1 damage worthwhile? Should I instead consider Butterfly Swords
https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=275

or is a shield on one arm + kama in the other just a better choice for a front-liner?
https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=54

markrivett wrote:

During combat, can a Kineticist using Extended Kinesis proliferate earth in a square to make a wall/impassable terrain?

The big restriction that the GM is going to use to tell you that you can't is in Base Kinesis. Which Extended Kinesis is still affected by.

Base Kinesis wrote:

Base Kinesis can't deal damage or cause conditions unless otherwise noted.

Difficult terrain, impassible terrain, and cover are all conditions. Either conditions for a creature or conditions of the terrain.

I don't think that an automatically given and perpetually available 1st level ability should be duplicating the effects of a 5th Rank spell.

I don't disagree with this interpretation. I've read and re-read these abilities like 10 times and I'm still not clear.

Base Kinesis does clearly state that it can't deal damage or cause conditions... but then it goes on to say that fire can cast light and ignite flammable substances.

Doesn't casting light implicitly remove a concealed or hidden condition from things and add the observed condition to something that was in the dark?

Doesn't igniting a flammable object imply that the thing on fire - say a spider web or puddle of oil - is taking/inflicting damage?

Similarly, if I Extended Kinesis -> proliferate fire to fill a square, doesn't that square, at the very least, become hazardous terrain?

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just struggling with what appears to be contradictory wording mixed with some real-wold implications.

During combat, can a Kineticist using Extended Kinesis proliferate earth in a square to make a wall/impassable terrain?

If so, does a Kineticist need to first generate earth through Base Kinesis, or could the Kineticist simply proliferate earth from existing material such as rock or dirt ground?

Thank you

Goblin Druid
Animal Companion
https://2e.aonprd.com/DruidicOrders.aspx?ID=1

Level 2
Beastmaster Dedication
https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1900
+ Hieghtened Summon Animal

Turn 1 riding my wolf the druid summons a wolf to go with his two wolf animal companions

Turn 2 3 command animal actions to give your wolves a command: "run up and bite that guy!"
each of the three wolves run up. The first one bites for 1d8 +trip
the second and third wolves bite for 1d8+1d4 +trip

Turn 3 command animal action: "bite that guy twice!"

------

Is this allowed by rules and if it is, is it minmaxing or flavorful to build this awesome goblin wolf shaman and his two riding wolves and sometimes also a third wolf of crazy bitey wolfpack who becomes more and more useless after level 4?

is that allowed by rules, and is it fun?

Title says it all.

Is a Ruffin Rogue
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rackets.aspx?ID=1
able to sneak attack
https://2e.aonprd.com/Classes.aspx?ID=10
via Gouging Claw attack?
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=920

I deal with the mechanics of religion in a homebrew setting I'm currently running through a "strength of denomination" and "circular logic" system.

Similar to denominations of Christianity, in my home brew setting, there is an ancient deceased entity whose teachings provoke a wide range of belief systems over time.

A religion grows in divine power as it grows its following, material prosperity, external image, collection of relics, etc. The reverse is also true.

For example, a religion with millions of followers, tremendous wealth, great respect, and a exalted collection of holy artifacts would have casters capable of reaching the top-tier of divine spell casting.

Mechanically there is no functional difference between recruitment, reproductive proliferation, or subjugation when growing a following. More followers = more divine power. If the religion entices people to be a part of it by exemplifying heroism and benevolence, that helps them. If the religion instead forces conversion through brutality, that also helps them.

Prosperity can cbe financial, territory, or pretty much anything of vale. A religion that uses that wealth to grow its following helps itself. A religion that uses its wealth to subjugate neighboring realms also helps itself.

Image can be fear, respect, or anything in between.

Relics can be genuine or imaginary. It mostly matters whether people believe the relic holds significance or not.

When creating a religion analogous to the followers of Asmodeus, an Earthly religion probably wouldn't have a central figure called Asmodeus at all. Formal organizations may be akin to bar associations and lobbyists (called patrons or patronage in pre-modern periods). Its followers might even be offended if you even called their system a religion. They would be grounded in Asmodean principles shrouded in rhetoric: "I must rule tyrannically because these people are too stupid to rule themselves."

You can pretty much erase all the names of the gods and just change them to disconnected organizations that just have the same loose set of beliefs.

Hello, have there been any developments regarding publication?
Thank You

Where is the battle taking place? Can they control the battlefield?

.. ...

It would be nice to know what the battlefield looks like. If you can seal off the dragon from directly attacking you while still hammering it from range with maybe wall spells, you could set up a real advantageous position.

Additional context:

The Blue Dragon has been masquerading as a lich and is the ruler of an undead kingdom. He has spent centuries engineering conflict between between the nation he rules and mortal kingdoms in order to prevent anyone from growing strong enough to discover or dethrone him... while working on a way to gain immortality himself without becoming undead.

The undead kingdom is devoted to the Whispering Way so when the PCs revealed to the undead nobility (liches and vampires and living necromancers) the ruse, they are angry that a living being who pretended to be undead has spent centuries undermining them.

There is a tenuous alliance with some high-ranking undead providing what aid they can to the PCs... mostly in the form of magical items and making sure the Blue Dragon's minions/bodyguards are occupied during the fight. (The undead kingdom is not a monolith. Many undead nobles are still on the side of the Blue Dragon because it benefits them personally, while others believe the idea that their ruler is not a lich is just a trick intended to undermine their loyalty)

The players know they are facing an Ancient Blue dragon having killed tat dragon's son (an Adult Blue dragon who had himself, spent centuries infiltrating a neighboring Elven kingdom's government). The elves are grateful and they too will provide assistance.

The battle will take place in a cathedral/throne room. Earlier in the campaign a wizard marched an army into that cathedral/throne room through a teleportation ring that was created with the assistance of a caster who had themselves infiltrated the undead kingdom. That army and wizard were killed through an ambush because the Blue Dragon had agents who infiltrated the wizard's forces and knew about the plan... but did NOT know that Wizard knew that the dragon knew about the plan... so made the teleportation ring permanent so a second attempt could be made in the future without the blue dragon's knowledge.

So the players found the teleportation ring and can march into the cathedral/throne room after buffing up and may get a surprise round... though the undead allies need a sec to alert their folks to take out the Blue Dragon's friends.

The barbarian isn't a trippy kind of barbarian. He does a lot of sticking to his opponent via a reaction and just swinging his two-handed sword.

The druid does dragon form from time to time. His bear is already pretty useless against CR 14 things so it will be less than useless in this fight.

The cleric is a good cleric, not neutral.

The NPC elves that will help them are a cleric and a champion.

The undead are not willing to risk their own (immortal) necks but will provide up to two two Nightmarchers to spearhead the attack in addition to magical items.

Thank you all for your insight and any additional insight is welcome.

Wrapping up a campaign soon with the party, now level 15, finally going up against the BBEG - an ancient Blue Dragon.

Party is Barbarian, Druid (and bear animal companion), Wizard, and Cleric

They have some NPCs assisting them (no one higher than level 14. basically sacks of HP to tanks some of the initial damage).

The Blue Dragon is a caster and between his spell list and his AC, I'm a bit worried. Even with assistance, is this combat encounter out of reach for a 15th level group?

The party has some "advisors" who can suggest some things to help.

So... internet advisors... how might these advisors offer a strategy/tactics that prevents the dragon from casting Maze on the barbarian, cating Baleful Polymorph on the Wizard (or Cleric), and then mopping the floor with the remainder of the group?

Or... if the dragon starts to lose, he casts disappearance and/or dimension door and lives to fight another day.

Thank you in advance.

My players, being level 14, are going up against a level 14 wizard, a level 14 fighter, and their cannon-fodder of low-level guards. I can't find a suitable substitution in the list of regular monsters available in the various beastiaries. Do I have to MAKE these characters, pick their spells/feats, etc?

This seems like a lot to keep track of.

Bonus if this can dragged and dropped into Roll20

Thank you all for your insight. I appreciate it and will discuss further with my players. I think one player gripe that I am sensitive to is that 5% is actually quite a big chance to (usually) critically fail.

The argument being: level 12 Barbarians should not royally screw up 1 out of every 20 sword swings.

A character with legendary skill should not critically fail 1 out of every 20 times.

I think that if I critically failed at my IRL job 1 out of 20 times I would be fired, and I would not consider myself anywhere near "legendary" profession. (I know this is a game. This is a joke)

The idea of lowering variance comes, in part, from exploring other systems, which I will get to in a sec...

Not to sound like an ass, but if variance gets in the way of the fun why play an RPG? Just get with your group and tell stories about the characters and their deeds.

There are many systems that reduce variance, or allow players to influence the level variance has on the outcome of the game.

Sentinels Comics RPG, for example, has an interesting choice-based system.

Conversely, Warhammer Fantasy RPG has a high variance system that favors the person who hits first by compounding turn after turn successes.

Gloomhaven and Frosthaven (not RPGs, I know) have all the variance in a combat deck that can be manipulated.

There are tons of interesting systems out there, but I already have all the Pathfinder 2.0 books, I and my group like "tactical combat" RPGs, and my group already understands the d20 system.

I'm not looking for "no variance" I'm actually not 100% certain what I'm looking for, but I am EXPLORING the idea of LESS variance with valuable input from the RPG community. So... thanks for your contribution.

My players have, on occasion, mentioned that variance can often take the wind out of an otherwise fun game session. I've seen my players roll a natural 1 and hero point into another natural 1. I've watched moderate encounters turn into a slog because damage dice after damage dice roll low. I've watched chase encounters and social encounters get set back because of a critical fail.

I get that there is probably a bit of negative memory bias at play, and I don't let dice dictate the over-arching narrative. I also know that, as the GM, I can puppeteer things in a way to minimize the impact of bad luck (which solves the issue, but creates another: diminishing agency). I do, however, see where my players are coming from.

As this current campaign wraps up, and starting to plan for the next, I'm thinking about changing the default die roller in Roll20 (our platform of choice) from d20 to 2d8+1d6-2. This will double the odds of getting a result between 8 and 13, dramatically reduce results of 7 or less, 14 or more, and make natural 1s and natural 20s one in about 400 rolls.

There is no practical issue since Roll20 will handle all the die rolling.

I understand that this will make east DCs and combat encounters much easier.
Average DCs and combat encounters will also become easier because players will tend apply their best abilities.
Difficult DCs and combats will become much MUCH harder.

Outside the above assumptions, are there any other unforeseen issues I might inadvertently provoke?

Considering some of the activity surrounding TTRPGs, this upcoming week would be an excellent time to release this collection of fan-made work.

I understand that life happens (believe me, I just had my second child and barely have the bandwidth to eat), but I would gently request a timeline for release and, if there is no way to establish a timeline, suggest (again, gently) a community-lead solution to releasing this issue.

If there is anything I can do to assist in any way, please do not hesitate to reach out.

Running an election depends on how complex you want to get.

Many people rely on an individual they trust to have expertise on politics for their political perspective. Endorsements from prominent figures (religious leaders, businesspeople, law enforcement) are extremely valuable. This can boil down to an influence encounter where players attempt to acquire the endorsement of community leaders.

Create a list of community figures, assign each one a hidden value (votes) and award that value to the winner of that influence encounter. Winning the endorsement of one community figure might make influencing community figure with an opposing agenda more difficult.

You could create a “undecided” block of voters who are only influenced by town square speeches.

For a little action, you could also explore the 1946 Battle of Athens historical event. You can research it yourself, but basically the account unfolded over a series of confrontations between World War 2 veterans and a corrupt Tennessee political apparatus.

a) Eligible voters were prevented from voting at a polling place by armed deputies loyal to the bad guy (in this case, Paul Cantrell). A voter was shot.

b) WW2 veterans organized and armed themselves and there was an exchange of gunfire between them and the Cantrell deputies who had closed polling. Some people were taken hostage, others were thrown in jail.

c) When vote counting began, Cantrell’s opponent was winning. In response, ballot boxes were taken by Cantrell and his deputies to a barricaded jail - presumably to be opened and stuffed with votes for Cantrell. This culminated in a siege of the jail where WW2 veterans, knowledgeable in demolition, deployed dynamite, breached the jail and recovered the ballot boxes.

There is an old move about this with is actually worth a watch.

Thanks to everyone for responding.

I think the most compelling argument I have heard is that tiny creatures can occupy the same space as a larger creature and therefore a medium creature can occupy the same space as a huge creature. Reason being that medium creatures do not occupy the entirety of their 5-ft by 5-ft space.

The dragon can transform but the players around him are not shoved and experience no other ill effects.

I understand that this is not RAW, however, given that a medium creature can occupy the same space as their large mount (as well as their being other exceptions) I am going to allow it.

I do happen to have a druid in the party and I will inform them of my conditional leniency on this issue.

markrivett wrote:

The heart of my question is this: I struggle with the idea that a dragon - who retains all of its stats (strength, AC, etc.) - cannot displace objects, monsters, characters and even not super sturdy walls when reverting to its true form.

If you consider that the Fighter next to it has the same Strength, AC, etc. it becomes much more logical for the Dragon to be unable to displace anything.

Though I agree with you from a RAW perspective, I disagree from a logic perspective. Even if the character and/or dragon are made of actual steel, the objects around them are not. The ground, wooden walls, and other nearby players end up making the compromise.

This touches on another RAW issue: I, as a character, can never be shoved by an opponent as long as I have my trusty strength 8 wizard behind me. Why? Well, because he occupies a space I cannot be moved into and is not the target of the shove.

Sorry Ancient Red Dragon, I bet you wish you were an iron golem!

The issue of your reasoning is that by allowing characters/monsters to destroy super sturdy walls and displace whatever they want the game ends up quite crazy unless you bring the rule that "only monsters can destroy super sturdy walls and displace whatever they want". Then, it becomes a bit unfair.

I wouldn't allow anyone to break through sturdy walls via a transformation effect. However, I don't have a problem with exceptionally large and/or strong creatures breaking through wooden walls or displacing/destroying objects that occupy spaces.

PF2 characters are heroes and must be seen as heroes. The Fighter, despite having a 10th of the size of the Dragon, can successfully Shove it, Grapple it and punch it in the face. This is no basic human, it's closer to Superman level of human. And definitely, your Dragon won't push Superman (unless it's a Kryptonite Dragon).

To be fair, narrative descriptions of super-strong characters don't really get things right. When Superman and Doomsday stand toe to toe punching each other with strength that can literally move planets, the ground and walls around them present some sort of barrier and foundation for the fight when in reality they would be less than tissue paper. When Doomsday grabs superman and smashes him into the ground, we see this dramatic impact and maybe a crater. In reality the ground may as well not be there at all. They would punch through the ground bodily as if it were a ball of mist.

I appreciate the feedback on this subject, and I also appreciate the interpretation of Rules as Written.

However... (sorry)

If we were to privilege "realism" (as realistic as one can be when one creature is transforming into another), I have a couple thoughts.

First (as applicable to my situation), shouldn't a dragon be able to revert to its true form regardless of the objects around it? If I have a humanoid-sized balloon and suddenly inflate it to huge size, doesn't the balloon "win" over the objects around it - shoving movable objects around it out of the way?

Maybe in game terms this could be interpreted as a "built in shove action"?

Second (also as applicable to my situation), I'm not sold on "medium creatures occupy all of 5ft by 5ft space" and "huge creatures occupy all of a 15ft by 15ft space". I get that that is the space that can be interacted with/threatened, but a 5ft by 5ft space can actually hold more than 2 people. Likewise, a 10ft by 10ft space can hold A LOT more then 4 people. For this reason I would consider the following scenarios:

1) A huge creature does not crush smaller creatures against walls by transforming and displacing them. Everyone occupies the same space - though a bit cramped.

2) A rogue hides in a 5ft by 5ft closet with a druid in mouse-form in his pocket. Someone locks the door from the outside. Druid transforms into human form. I would not rule that the druid cannot transform nor would I rule that the players would cause damage to one another... because there is actually plenty of room on that closet for both characters.

3) As mentioned above, a character crafts a metal tapered tube and grease sup the inside. The local druid order transforms into a bunch of mice. The character loads each mouse into the tube, at which point they allow the duration of their transformation to run out, and revert to humanoid form. One by one the druids are launched from the tube towards an unsuspecting enemy - at which point they transform into bears. Yes I know this is silly - but maybe the druid transformation is more "ooze-like" and does not posses the kinetic energy to create a bear rail-gun?

Thank you all for your input.

The heart of my question is this: I struggle with the idea that a dragon - who retains all of its stats (strength, AC, etc.) - cannot displace objects, monsters, characters and even not super sturdy walls when reverting to its true form.

The question is for pathfinder 2.0

Bestiary page 104:
"Shape-Changing Dragons
Some dragons can take humanoid form, allowing them to infiltrate settlements or influence others without revealing their true nature. They gain the following ability: Change Shape [one-action] (arcane, concentrate, polymorph, transmutation) The dragon takes on
the appearance of any Small or Medium humanoid. This doesn’t change its Speed or attack and damage bonuses with its Strikes, but might change the damage type its Strikes deal (typically to bludgeoning)."

The humanoid form that the dragon took was that of an elf.

What happens to the players who are against walls? Should I give them a reflex save to avoid some bludgeoning damage?

dragon in humanoid (elf) form is surrounded by a player on each non-diagonal side.

Can dragon transform into its natural huge form?
If so, what happens if there are walls behind the players?

1) The term “perceive vague surface thoughts” is not a great descriptor. As a GM (and I happen to be GMing a game where this spell is used), that “perceive” means you see, hear, and if relevant, also feel, smell, and taste.

So, I would say that the caster hears the target’s inner monologue and sees whatever the target is focused on (but NOT the surrounding are). I would rule that the caster can also distinguish between what is real and imagined.

For example. If someone were reading my mind at this second, they would hear what It was typing interspliced with my thoughts considering what I wanted to say before I wrote it. The caster would also see my computer screen and sometimes my keyboard and probably my phone sitting next to me as my eyes dart between targets.

One round is actually not a lot of time to get information. (The caser would have heard me ask the question in my head “what is the duration of that spell?” then open Archives of Nethys to remind myself of the duration, and then draw the preceding conclusion).

However, if sustained for up to a minute is quite a stretch of time. I would say that would be plenty of time to hear my thoughts regarding priorities beyond what I was immediately doing. For example, in the course of a minute I have not only considered this question, but also thought about making dinner for my family later tonight, recently seeing a retired colleague, a notification on my phone, and a dozen other things that a caster might have trouble sifting through in order to determine importance.

Most importantly, I would almost always give my players something useful via Mind Reading spell – even if it’s a bonus to social interactions.

2) As a GM I would probably rule that the phrase “with a cursory mental touch…” does mean that the target feels a sensation but may not necessarily know what that sensation is. The target would recognize that sensation each time they were the subject of the spell and may eventually discern what the effect it.

Though it is in no way rules as written, I would probably also rule that certain feats like Conceal Spell and Silent Spell would increase the difficulty of the target perceiving the “mental touch”.

I actually have no problem with someone using diplomacy to improve negotiating position. However I wouldn't necessarily apply discount (though I might).

I'm certain I don't need to explain that social skills (even legendary ones) do not mean "mind control".

I might increase the rarity of items available to be purchased suggesting the merchant trusts the players enough to reveal his secret stash.

I might throw in some lower-level consumables for free (like a buy 3 Greater Healing Potions, get 1 Lesser Healing Potion for free).

I might throw in a "social hook": "You seem like great people," Says the merchant. "Head on down to the docks and talk to my brother Frank. Tell him I sent you. He'se been looking for someone trustworthy to help him with something." (Make it clear that if the players want to persue this "side quest" they must wait for another session since it's on the fly)

Point is, be creative. No merchant is breaking their business for even a legendary negotiator.

Hey everyone.

l am new here to the forum, and i had a couple of questions regarding running a bootcamp style session.
Yesterday me and my group came together for the first time, and things didn’t go exactly according to plan ( it was total chaos ).
At first I was a little disheartened but I quickly came to the realisation that one of the main problems we face was that most players where unfamiliar with the rules, and this ground the story to a halt because everyone was asking questions in the middle of,dialogue and by constantly being interrupted And so I lost track and things started to unravel.
So after thinking about it a bit, I realised that my players where on there way to the grand lodge in absalom and saw this as the perfect opportunity to give them a bootcamp session where the rules are explained in game, and afterwards they are send on a small mission where most of what they learned will be put to the test.

My main question is, how best to structure this without overloading the players with information?.
My idea was to split things up in a couple of main “groups”, mainly basic actions& combat, skill actions, Magic and status effects and tags.
I haven’t figured out how to do this without going to big tough since so many rules interact with one another.
I also wanted to ask if anyone can point me towards a good player aid, I just want my players to have a good time without them feeling like they have to study for a exam ;)

I was thinking about creating an introductory adventure for his exact purpose. I use Roll20 and like to write down some options for my players when they have a challenge in front of them, but make it clear that they can and should use creative solutions outside the ones I give them.

The scenario that I had in mind was that there were "help wanted" flyers around town that the PCs answer. When they arrive at the location indicated on the flyer, they find dozens of other applicants. The person who is doing the hiring asks for some friendly displays of prowess.

This would then pit individual players against individual NPCs and (possibly) culminate in a non-lethal combat encounter.

Challenges would look something like this:

BossMan would like to see which among you can reach the top of an obstacle the fastest.
Scale the obstacle with brute strength (Climb DC15)
Flip, jump, and swing up the obstacle (Acrobatics DC17)
Use the Tanglefoot cantrip to hinder your opponents (Spell)
Other

or...

RandoNPC approaches you and demands you withdraw from the competition.
Snarl angrily that RandoNPC withdraw (Intimidation DC15)
Cooly explain why you cannot withdraw and suggest they instead withdraw (Diplomacy DC19)
Sing a song mocking RandoNPC (Performance DC17)
Other

Each player should have three or four challenges to overcome and give the players time to consider how they might assist one another (even though the challenges are individual, spells like guidance can help, while others might hinder. Perhaps a cook could spike an opponents food and knock them out of the competition). Give players suggestions, but be very lenient with creative solutions that fall outside what you anticipate.

markrivett wrote:

I assume I run the dungeon in exploration mode.

Confused here - meaning running even the combat in exploration mode?

No, just the space between combat. PLayers looking for traps, casting detect magic, etc before running into a combat encounter/hazard.

Setup: My 11th level players go to a town to discover a Vrykolakas Ancient has subjugated the people. Werewolves, Vrykolakas Spawn, and other low-level creatures maraud the countryside.

I want to set up a dungeon crawl where my players have to fight their way into the Ancient's lair to face Spawn (probably too low level to be a threat to 11th level characters), Vrykolakas Masters, and other horrors (suggestions welcome).

My question is how do I set this up?

I assume I run the dungeon in exploration mode.

How many encounters and at what difficulty make for a challenging (but not tedious) dungeon crawl if the "boss fight" is moderate to severe?

Thank you in advance.

If it's a baddie's fort why not poke around the list of hazards?

It's kinda a good guy fort. But thank you, you are right, even good guys may want to make life hazardous for intruders.

Dinosaur Fort

markrivett wrote:

... 6th level and lower magic (including rituals).

Drat.

Hmm...

That's a soft ceiling.

Imagine you had access to pretty much any 6th level and lower magic (including rituals).
Imagine you wanted to protect a sizable area (maybe a temple, or a small keep, or maybe just a house) from intruders, scrying, shapechaging druids, and just about anything you can think of, but also want you and your friends to be able to come and go as you please without accidentally falling into a spiked pit.

What creative things would you do other than standard Elemental Sentinels, Consecration Rituals, and Ward Domain? (And regular guards)

For context: The players have been invited to visit an organization with such a headquarters that is "on their side" against the BBEG. The BBEG has an agent within this organization who may turn the this headquarters against the players.

If my players wanted to craft a hazard, I would not stand in their way.

I’d use the crafting rules.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Skills.aspx?ID=4

Hazards have a level.
Hazards exist so, presumably, the players could research a “formula” (blueprint?).
The players will need tools and/or a workshop
The only stumbling stone is the raw material cost, and the cost of magical components if the players are trying to create a complex hazard. I think it’s probably reasonable to look at comparable-level magical items and make a best guess as to the cost of a hazard.

Obviously, the players will need to make or buy magical parts of the trap.

For things like this I like to give the players lots of agency. I ran a “city revolt” adventure with the players on the side of the rebels not long ago.

I gave the players a list of “suggested” things they could do to prepare (but also encouraged them to invent their own things they wanted to do). The entire first half of the session was them figuring out what they wanted to do.

For example, one player with a very high craft skill wanted to build some siege weapons in secret. This meant he had to acquire materials, find a secret location to work, get people he trusted with the skills to help him, and then secretly move the siege weapons into position.

Another player (a druid) spent his time telling all the small animals in the area to gather seeds. He then scattered the seeds around the area and used the Plant Growth ritual to grow food inside the perimeter and thorny brambles on the outside.

Another player, with a very high intimidation, spent her time preaching in the streets. She intended to persuade more common folk to join their cause. But also wanted to talk about how strong her side was in order to discourage enemy troops from fighting.

Much of the fun of something like this will be in seeing how their preparation influences the narrative.

For a siege (I assume the players are the defenders?), there are a lot of things players can do to give themselves and the other defenders an advantage. Siege weapons and fortifications are important, but what about establishing information networks needed to communicate conditions to potential allies on the outside? Triage/medical tents for the injured? Traps? Food and weapon stockpiling?

Maybe the person in charge (if not the players) has made a mistake with his force allocation and the players need to persuade him/her to reallocate. Or maybe the players see an opportunity to exploit a weakness and need to inspire some soldiers to assist them. Or, maybe there’s a dormant escape portal in the dungeon beneath the castle and the players need to research until they find the Awaken Portal ritual and perform it.

I think each sessions should be equal parts combat and skill-based non-combat.

I have a druid that likes to toss around Guidance in scenarios where the party is not really fighting: during chase encounters, research encounters, talking to NPCs to help with social skill checks, etc.

I've allowed it, but should I be allowing it?

The guidance spell specifically has a duration of "until the start of your next turn"

So, in a non-linear encounter where people aren't really "taking turns" but rather moving organically through a discussion, chase, or research, does Guidance really apply or, should I be looking at the spell as I am: as long as a player use the bonus when they are speaking, recalling knowledge, or making some other roll that is relevant to the encounter, it's fine?

Apologies if the answer should be staring me in the face.
I have a mage who is pretending to be a warrior.

What are the effects of wearing heavy armor as a mage?

Thank you in advance

I had a situation like this not too long ago.

My players fought a Graveknight and, after two characters were dropped, I made a narrative declaration that the graveknight defeated the party and took them captive. This is worked because the graveknight actually could use the players as hostages, and led to a fun “escape captivity” adventure.

This may not work as your “get out of jail free” card with a young Black Dragon… though this Young Black Dragon may have a more powerful “master” who might intervene.

Honestly, this fight is simply going to take a lot of preparation, understanding, and luck to win. The AC25 alone means your players are going to be missing over 50% of their attacks. That is going to lead to frustration where the players don’t feel like they are dealing enough damage so they “hail marry” second and third actions into attacks that also miss.

So then they’ll be standing there and getting slammed by +19 attacks which are gonna crit most of the time.

The dice need to come down in favor of the players, and “pray to the dice gods” is not a good strategy. Unless you have an incredibly disciplined group who can do research on the dragon to give them an edge AND EXECUTE on a well-crafted plan (note the plan needs to be WELL CRAFTED and WELL EXECUTED), things will not go well. Straight rolls, no crazy good luck or bad luck on either side, your party is probably gonna get killed.

The simplest solution is to give your players an ally that also hates this Black Dragon. Some burly high HP creature that can take a lot of the hits and die about mid-way through the fight. This will allow your players to put some damage into the Black Dragon so when their NPC tank drops, killing the dragon before it starts killing them won’t be totally out of reach.

Yep, time for an update.

Unfortunately, life, work, and COVID have derailed our schedule. We won't be able to release for PaizoCon as usual. This all has pushed back the release date until late June.

We have all the pieces, it just comes down to getting derailed by life.

Disappointing? Hell, yes. But, I can assure you that this issue will be wonderful when we finish.

The sneak peek of the Side Trek Adventure will still occur for PaizoCon, though. "Red Fields" is offered in person, and online by the authors, so look for that on Warhorn.

Tim

The call for submissions was opened almost exactly a year ago (minus a week and change). Will there be another call for submissions soon?

Honestly, the Doppelganger idea is the best and easiest/simplest one to do. If the target is disguised, and people assume that they are so-and-so, they won't second guess that it's so-and-so unless they do something extremely out of character for so-and-so.

While I am continuing to explore this scenario options as a mental exercise, I tend to lean this way the more I think about it.

Reason being is that Big Bad can coerce a doppelganger into undergoing the ritual (riches?)in place of the champion, but then what? Doppelganger isn't going to be happy about being bound to the Geas, and getting sick OR working against the Big bad as per the Geas. So what does a Big bad do with a sick or hostile doppelganger?

Time to make the Doppelganger vanish.

So, after years of this happening, the latest doppelganger gets to thinking "I wonder what happened to all my predecessors." And peaces together that he is gonna die as soon as the ritual is over. So, this Doppelganger now has to try and thread a needle where he exposes the plot, but can't be obvious about it or Big Bad will expedite the doppelganger's demise.

It gives me a mechanism through which to provide clues to the players.

Perhaps the NPC who is casting the geas is also in on the plan, and excludes the evil champion without anyone knowing?

That is a good suggestion. Thank you. The "bad champion" happens to not be a magic user and will require an ally who is. I had always thought of this ally as an advisor, but it could easily be the prominent caster of the ritual him/herself.

The purpose of the published Geas ritual is for the players to be able to use it. So if there exists an option to subvert it that is easily accessible to the players, what would be the point of the Geas ritual?

I don’t know if I agree with you. I think just about everything in Pathfinder can be adapted for a narrative function… especially at higher levels. I tend to think that, with enough preparation and information, a clever NPC (or PC) can (and should) be able to do the unexpected.

But I also want to avoid “Batman” levels of preparation where I’m telling the players “Oh there’s something extra EXTRA special that makes this not work the way you think it does.”

I think that robs the players of their investment in the system that they themselves are bound by.

Do the players know that this is the plot line of the campaign?

The players know that the original group of champions, except for two members, were wiped out during a surprise attack that was supposed to destroy the Big Bad (cut the head off the snake). The generally accepted narrative from the few survivors who escaped is that the Big Bad was somehow expecting the attack and had laid an ambush. There is no definitive answer as to what went wrong (that the players, or anyone else, is aware of).

This thread is about dissecting what went wrong (Someone subverted their Geas) so I can provide nibbles and glimpses to the players that will unfold into a larger revelation which pits them against someone who was thought to be on their side.

As for a sneaky villain :
I can only assume that in a coalition of Good allies, a sneaky person can wiggle his way out by outright refusing because of stuff like "I cannot allow myself to get under magical restrains" which is a fully valid reason for even a CG character to refuse to bend his will.

In this case of refusing to be part of Geas pact, the Alliance would simply say; “We respect your personal conviction to refuse this ritual, and we ask that you respect our need for a representative from your kingdom to commit to the magical contract. We will need someone else to represent your nation in this agreement, though we appreciate your continued commitment to this struggle in other ways.”

The doppelganger suggestion got me thinking.

Could a replica (via a heightened Replicate illusion spell) be the subject of a Geas ritual to allow the original to subvert it?

Perhaps a Mind Swap ritual would allow the bad guy to allow someone else to take their body, perform the ritual, and then swap back (allowing for one week of “hmm, that guy is acting strange” until minds swap back)

Remember, this entire plotline is something that I feel should only be done with GM and player agreement beforehand.

To clarify, the players are not members of this group of champions (though some may aspire to be). I want to lean on the player's understanding of the rules in order to identify the champion who has been betraying the alliance.

I do not want to play the "GM said this guy can't be affected by Geas" card. In fact doing that contradicts what I am trying to do.

Thank you for the doppelganger idea. That may be a worthwhile route.

Thank everyone for their responses. This is helpful.

Allow me to ask my question in a different way for additional insights from the community.

Imagine a handful of good kingdoms united to defeat an evil kingdom that has been a menace for many decades. Each good kingdom commits a powerful champion who represents it as the highest military authority in the alliance. Because each kingdom’s short, mid, and/or long-term self-interest can sometimes conflict with the military effort to defeat the evil kingdom, each champion is inducted into the alliance through the Geas ritual (a ritual which is renewed annually).

Now, imagine that you are one such champion, but for whatever reason, you have fallen in with the evil kingdom. Perhaps you have been promised something, or perhaps you have become disillusioned with the alliance. Whatever the reason, your mission is now to communicate the alliance’s plans to the evil kingdom, and entice all the other champions to walk into traps or otherwise get killed.

How would YOU defeat the annual 7th-level Geas ritual, but still maintain your cover as a covert agent?

You are not necessarily a magic user. The evil kingdom can provide you with magic users able to provide for you the resources you need to do that.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=12

This may belong in "Advice", but I'll start here.

Can an unwilling target of a (heightened) Geas ritual pretend to be willing?
If an unwilling Geas target succeeds at their will save, are the casters aware?

Scenario: An NPC used a 7th level Geas ritual to bind a band of people (some PCs, others NPCs) to a contract that says (in a nut shell): "Overthrow Big Bad from his kingdom."

One NPC is on the Big Bad's side, but has to pretend to be willing to be bound by the Geas ritual in order to fool the PCs and other NPCs. That NPC takes certain measures to ensure he succeeds at his Will save.

Do the Geas casters know if he succeeded at his will save as an unwilling target even though that target pretended to be willing?

Thank you in advance.

I appreciate the discussion on this subject and thank everyone for their perspective. I respect both interpretations of the rules.

I suspect that, until a Paizo employee replies to this thread we will not arrive at a definitive answer.

To add context, one of my players (a ranger) was firing her bow at a Big Bad while the Big Bad’s minions grabbed that ranger. That player did make their DC5 flat check, but we then took a moment to sidebar whether that flat check was even necessary. For expediency I ruled that it was not because rules clearly state that a character can attack while grabbed.

However, philosophically I am opposed to the “rock’em-sock’em robots” concept of RPG combat. I see combat as dynamic, violent (duh), and messy affairs, not figures standing in 5-foot squares taking turns smacking each other.

When I envision a “grab” I am imagining life and death wrestling matches where one character is using their strength, weight, and every limb at their disposal (elbows, knees, teeth, head) to enforce their will (trying to pin their opponent to apply the “restrained” condition). I think even holding a bow in that situation is going to be difficult, let alone drawing an arrow, nocking it, and firing it accurately.

Going forward at my table I am going to rule that being “grabbed” does require a DC5 flat check to fire an arrow from a bow. The exception being that if the archer was already ready to fire with an arrow nocked and drawn. Logic being that they can still let fly as they are being tackled.

If I am grabbed by an opponent, do I need to manipulate my arrow into the bow in order to fire it?

Basically, does being grabbed potentially influence firing a bow via an implicit act of manipulation?

Thank you all for helping me to get this right.

I feel like there's a meme in this somewhere...

Champion: "My comrade is grappled! I shall call upon my deity to free them!"

Sarenrae: "There you go, little buddy. You freed one of your friends."

Champion: "Oh oh, now I'm grappled. I again call upon my deity!"

Sarenrae: "You can just die... selflessly."

But I respect the rules as written. Thank you again.

Am I my own ally?

Basically, if I am a liberator champion and I become the target of a grab, restraint, imobilization, or paralysis effect, can I use my reaction to attempt a new save or attempt an escape check?

Or... can liberators only liberate others? Their patron deity is like "you do good work, but you're gonna have to figure out some other way out of this. Tough luck for you. Maybe you can find another one of my liberator champions to help you out!"

I have an Adult Blue Dragon who has as "silver tongue". He has existed for many decades as a high-ranking elven politician within the ruling organization of an elven nation.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=131&PWL=true

As I understand dragons, they are either "fighters" with the Draconic Frenzy and Draconic Momentum abilities or they are "casters" without those abilities, but a spell list instead.

I would like to create a "socialite" template and forfeit both archetype abilities for the "Protect the Master" ability found under the Cult Leader.
https://2e.aonprd.com/NPCs.aspx?ID=930

Additionally, I want to switch the "Frightful Presence" ability to "Adoring Presence" which makes all "Helpful" creatures (Critical failure vs DC 32) function as "Cultists" for the purposes of "Protect the Master".

Does an Adult Blue Dragon with these abilities still sound like a DC 13 creature/encounter?

I am setting the groundwork for a new campaign (I'm about two years into a current campaign that should be wrapping up before too long). The 1000 ft view of the new campaign is that the players will be hired on retainer by a noble who is the youngest child of a recently deceased noble. He is building an entourage to sabotage his sibling's claim to the title. He is not a good person, but neither are any of his siblings (inspired by the kids from the Righteous Gemstones HBO series).

I have two questions.

1) Does anyone have a good recommendation for a setting within Golarion for a political intrigue campaign that draws inspiration from: Gilded Age, Darkest Dungeon (video game), The Great, Victoria. I don't want to do Absalom.

2) Is the "hook" below funny? Can it be funnier? How? Does it adequately resonate/mock real-world parallels? How would a bad person who doesn't see themselves as a bad person write a job description?

--

Now Hiring Assistants!

Following the heartbreaking passing of Duke Godefory Daucourt, Lord Vincent Daucourt is seeking highly motivated candidates to support his hereditary ascendancy. Lord Daucourt strives to maintain a racially, religiously, and philosophically diverse and inclusive workplace.

Education Requirements:
• Can read or be read to (writing optional)

Ideal candidates are…

• …Ambitious! Ready to earn more gold than can be spent in a lifetime.
o Candidates who are not ready to be absurdly wealthy need not apply.

• …Imaginative! Able to creatively interpret laws in order to facilitate positive outcomes.
o Candidates with the ability to convincingly justify their creative legal interpretations will be given special consideration.

• …Determined! Willing to confront unique obstacles each day with violent enthusiasm.
o Applicants who are boring people seeking tiresome non-violent routines should explore employment elsewhere

• …Tenacious! Proficient in identifying teachable moments to better inform future endeavors.
o Individuals with the ability to quickly recover from defeat, injury, illness, and death are encouraged to apply.

Ideal candidates will possess…
• A talent for potion and elixir creation
• A knack for entering a blackout rage when appropriate
• A proficiency in heavy armor
• Aptitude for identifying a competitor's weaknesses and exploiting them
• Expertise in circumventing security using stealth and guile.
• An ability to exercise improvisational magic through force of will
• A talent for entertaining at both low-brow and high-brow functions
• A commitment to workforce retention through proactive intervention on behalf of colleagues targeted by competitors
• Trained in punching and kicking through obstacles when those obstacles are sometimes also people
• Patronage of a deity (Note statement on religious diversity above)
• Ability to transform into different creatures.
• Enthusiasm for facilitating stakeholder collaboration by hunting those stakeholders down for surprise collaboration
• Advanced knowledge of arcane spellcasting
• Loyalty

This is an entry level position with compensation commiserate with project-based outcomes. Successful candidates will be held in retainer and referred to a non-compete policy. Open interviews will be held at Redwood Mansion daily until positions are filled.

I can think of Baleful Polymorph

If you specifically meant "battleforms", I think there are none.

thank you, yeah... I kinda want to turn a bunch of hapless NPCs into monsters and force my players to chose between killing the monsters and saving the polymorphed NPC.

It seems like all the "change a creature into another creature" magic only targets self.

Are there polymorph effects that target others?