marcopico's page

Since I was not given any sort of heads up about this and opportunity to decide if I was ok spending that sort of money that's not ok.

Dear Paizo, I'm sorry but I have to agree on that. If, for any reason, you have to increase S&H costs from 5.65 to 15.72, as is my case, you have to provide a heads up. I've been a subscriber since the Council of Thieves AP, albeit with a pause, but I feel quite obliged to reconsider my subscription if S&H is suddenly tripled like this.

I love the idea of more Paizo digital products, and I'd much rather see a partnership than splitting the base and both sides feeling cheated/loss.

Honestly, I do think the biggest news here is related to the brand new company, Digital Dragon Studios. I have very high hopes it will bring something important (and digitally interesting) to us Pathfinder fans. The partnership with Pathbuilder would be the cherry on top, particularly considering that it doesn't natively run on anything but Android. Keep up the good work and let us know of your future releases!

Hello, sorry for reviving this thread but I'm working on a Construct Rider with guns as well. Did you take a look at the Mechanist archetype, if your GM allows 3pp materials?

To me it looks like Construct Rider and Mechanist synergize very well...

As far as I can tell, Mastermind is a better Eldritch Trickster than Eldritch Trickster, seeing as it has a reliable way of making enemies flat-footed at range.

I feel there's a lot of hate and/or despise for the Eldritch Trickster. Lots of people say the Scoundrel is better, the Mastermind is better. Obviously, in terms of damage output the Thief is better.

While I can't disagree in terms of pure effectiveness in combat, I somehow fell in love with the idea of a 'magical rogue' and I'm pretty sure it can be a viable character. Not A+, but still quite effective.

After all, my feeling is PF 2e is less about overpowered single characters and more about group strategies to survive. Or at least this is what my limited experience suggests so far!

Anyway, thanks everybody for your constructive criticism and support. Happy gaming!

It does seem that you are doubling up a bit. You are spending feats to get more of the lower level spells. Not a terrible option if you are wanting to increase the amount of magic you are using. Though feats like Bloodline Breadth may be more cost effective for that. Pick one of the archetypes to gain your spells through and use the other archetype only for its other abilities.

Yes, you are correct. Actually, you don't really get a lot in terms of spells, just a few more cantrips. Thanks everybody for your help and clarifications!

You get what the feats say you get.

Having the other feat doesn't prevent that, so yes, you'd get two separate sets of abilities.

Well, not completely separate in that taking the same Cantrip twice doesn't let you have two Light spells active at the same time, for example. It'd be the same Cantrip just accessed through two different routes, so a waste.

So that would actually mean you have two different lists of spells... hmm, I wonder if that's what the developers meant. I've ready you can never take more than 1 multiclass archetype, but so far no other archetypes allowed to take spells, so you were automatically limited to 1 list.

I apologise if this question was raised before, but I couldn't find any answer with the search function.

What if my rogue first took the Sorcerer Basic Dedication, with the Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting feat at level 4, and then also took the Basic Eldritch Archer Spellcasting feat later?

Would he stick to the cantrips and spells he has from the Sorcerer Dedication (therefore making the second spellcasting feat worthless) or would he get two sets of cantrips and spells from the two separate dedications?

I just went through the CRB, the CRB errata, the APG, and GaM. Here are all of the spells that can be used with Magical Trickster

Cantrips
Acid Splash (Arcane and Primal)
Disrupt Undead (Divine and Primal)
Divine Lance (Divine)
Produce Flame (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Frost (Arcane and Primal)
Telekinetic Projectile (Arcane and Occult)

Level 1
Shocking Grasp (Arcane and Primal)

Level 2
Acid Arrow (Arcane and Primal)
Spiritual Weapon (Divine and Occult)

Level 3
Chilling Darkness (Divine)
Searing Light (Divine and Primal)

Level 5
Spiritual Guardian (Divine)

Level 6
Disintegrate (Arcane)

Thanks a lot, this is extremely helpful! I had just stopped at level 3. But... you know, Disintegrate... I just love it :-)

Your level 6 feat Analyze Weakness only works with a Strike, so it doesn't work with spells: Drop that from your build and you've already got a 'free feat slot' that would pretty much allow a scoundrel build to 'catch up' to a Trickster by level 6. Yes, you got that one 1st level spell a couple of levels earlier, but that is (hopefully) such a tiny portion of your overall career...

In my opinion, the Eldritch Trickster is a versatile character. He's not stuck with spellcasting, but rather adapts his tactics to his foes. Against a fighter with Attacks of Opportunity, the best strategies would be attacking with weapons in melee or attacking with spells from a distance (Produce Flame can be used both in melee and in ranged combat). Against foes who cannot attack you even if you cast a spell, a signature shocking grasp heightened to your maximum available spell level can be quite strong. Analyze Weakness only works with Strikes, you are right, but I'm not discarding weapon Strikes at all and so it can still be useful.

More importantly, note that casting Produce Flame or Shocking Grasp will provoke reactions (both have Somatic components and therefore the Manipulate trait), which will significantly limit either its usage or your lifespan...

I agree, this is true. However, as I mentioned earlier, Produce Flame can also be used from a distance, giving you a bit more flexibility. One possible solution, and the reason why I picked Cultural Adaptability and the gnome ancestry, is getting a familiar and having it deliver the spell. It should work with shocking grasp, as it is a touch spell.

Finally, you are fairly likely to be the 'face' of the party, so you might want to get your diplomacy proficiency up a bit.

Yes, I should probably raise that proficiency in place of something else, I'll just decide later in the campaign. Anyway, Charming Liar helps improving the target's attitude (same as Making an Impression with Diplomacy) if you get a critical success, and Deception will certainly be my most important social skill, due to Create a Diversion.

Looks good to me. I keep thinking there should be a spell that uses an attack roll on more than one creature, but such a thing doesn't seem to exist yet. Signature shocking grasp is a good idea, thats going to hit very hard later on. It would be cool to fit true strike in there somewhere, not sure if that's possible.

Some later level spells and feats to consider; split shot metamagic, letting you target 2 enemies for half damage, and fiery body, giving a bunch of stuff but notably making produce flame only one action (though it's a level 7 spell, so not until much later).

Great, thanks for these suggestions. BTW, I didn’t count Analyze Weaknesses in the numbers before. If I Recall Knowledge, I can add 3d6 precision damage (at level 11). Not bad, in my opinion.

Offhand, I'd think you'd be better off going Scoundrel rather than Eldritch Trickster: You get the same stat bonus option, improved feinting, two additional trained skills, and you can still take Dedication / Magical Trickster at their normal levels: If you are playing a full campaign, the difference between getting Magical Trickster at level 2 vs level 4 seems pretty small (you'll need to work out your class feat plan to see if a 2 level delay is an actual issue for you).

I want to like the Eldritch Trickster, but it seems a little weak to me, and it's really weak if Charisma is going to be your casting stat...

If you are going with a caster build, you'll need to figure out how you are going to get your target flat-footed: Feinting only works on Melee attacks, so that will greatly limit your spell choices (Produce Flame seems to be your only real cantrip option).

Finally, keep in mind you won't get many actual spell slots as you level up and your cantrips will probably be nearly as strong (at level 9, your cantrips will be level 5 spells while your biggest actual spell slot will only be level 3).

Well, I don't have much experience with PF 2e builds yet, but the Eldritch Trickster doesn't really seem worse than the Scoundrel. True, you don't get the improved feint, but you can still create diversions with Deception and it works just fine. Plus, you get your spells earlier and free up a feat slot for the Sorcerer Dedication, meaning you don't have to choose between Magical Trickster and Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting at level 4. Overall, it's probably not the strongest rogue build you can get, but you still have a good 'face' with some nice spellcasting tricks here and there (such as invisibility, mirror image, etc.) and your signature shocking grasp, that can deal a good amount of damage when needed.

Thanks for the reply. This is how I've planned to build my character so far (no magic weapons, armors or items included):

LEVEL 1
Ancestry: Halfling (Nomadic)
Background: Undercover Lotus Guard (Agents of Edgewatch Player's Guide)
Class: Rogue - Racket: Eldritch Trickster

Abilities
Strength 12
Dexterity 16
Constitution 12
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 12
Charisma 18 (class key ability)

Perception +6 (E)
HP 15; AC 17 (18 with shield)
Fort +4; Ref +8; Will +6

Skills
Acrobatics T
Arcana T
Art Lore T
Athletics T
Crafting U
Deception T
Diplomacy T
Intimidation T
Medicine U
Nature T
Occultism T
Performance U
Religion U
Society T
Stealth T
Survival U
Thievery T
Underworld Lore T

Special Abilities
Assurance (Deception) (Skill Feat)
Charming Liar (Background Feat)
Halfling Weapon Familiarity
Sneak Attack +1d6
Twin Feint (Class Feat)

Spells
Produce Flame +7 (1d4 +4 + 1d6 sneak attack; critical 2d4 + 8 + 2d6 sneak attack + 1d4 persistent fire)
Shield

Weapon Attacks
Filcher's Fork +6/+2/-2 (1d4 + 1d6 sneak; critical 2d4 + 2d6 sneak + 1d6 deadly)
Halfling Sling Staff +6/+1/-4 (1d10 + 1d6 sneak; critical 2d10 + 2d6 sneak)

---

LEVEL 5
Abilities
Strength 12
Dexterity 18
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 12
Charisma 19 (class key ability)

Perception +10 (E)
HP 56; AC 22
Fort +9; Ref +13; Will +10

Skills
Acrobatics T
Arcana E
Art Lore T
Athletics T
Crafting U
Deception E
Diplomacy T
Intimidation T
Medicine U
Nature T
Occultism T
Performance U
Religion U
Society T
Stealth E
Survival U
Thievery E
Underworld Lore T

Special Abilities
Animal Accomplice (gnome, from Cultural Adaptability)
Assurance (Deception) (Skill Feat)
Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting (at level 4)
Charming Liar (Background Feat)
Cultural Adaptability (gnome)
Magical Trickster (at level 2)
Sneak Attack +2d6
Twin Feint (Class Feat)
Unexpected Shift (gnome, from Cultural Adaptability; retrained from Halfling Weapon Familiarity)

Spells
Message (extra cantrip due to familiar)
Produce Flame +11 (3d4 +4 + 2d6 sneak attack; critical 4d4 + 8 + 4d6 sneak attack + 1d4 persistent fire)
Shield
Shocking Grasp +11 (2d12 + 2d6 sneak attack + 1d4 persistent damage; critical 4d12 + 4d6 sneak attack + 1d4 persistent damage)

Weapon Attacks
Rapier +13/+8/+3 (1d6 +1 + 2d6 sneak; critical 2d6 +2 + 4d6 sneak + 1d8 deadly)
Shortbow +13/+8/+3 (1d6 +1 + 2d6 sneak; critical 2d6 +2 + 4d6 sneak + 1d10 deadly)

---

LEVEL 11
Abilities
Strength 12
Dexterity 19
Constitution 16
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 14
Charisma 20 (class key ability)

Perception +19 (M)
HP 127; AC 28
Fort +18; Ref +21; Will +17

Skills
Acrobatics T
Arcana M
Art Lore T
Athletics T
Crafting U
Deception M
Diplomacy T
Intimidation T
Medicine U
Nature T
Occultism M
Performance U
Religion U
Society T
Stealth M
Survival U
Thievery M
Underworld Lore T

Special Abilities
Analyze Weakness (Class Feat, 3d6; level 6)
Animal Accomplice (gnome, from Cultural Adaptability; level 5)
Assurance (Deception) (Skill Feat)
Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting (at level 4)
Bloodline Breadth (level 8)
Charming Liar (Background Feat)
Cultural Adaptability (gnome; level 5)
Eldritch Debilitations (Class Feat; level 10)
Fortuitous Shift (gnome, from Cultural Adaptability; level 9)
Magical Trickster (level 2)
Signature Spell (shocking grasp)
Sneak Attack +3d6
Twin Feint (Class Feat; level 1)
Unexpected Shift (gnome, from Cultural Adaptability; retrained from Halfling Weapon Familiarity)

Spells
Message (extra cantrip due to familiar)
Produce Flame +18 (6d4 +5 + 3d6 sneak attack; critical 12d4 + 10 + 6d6 sneak attack + 1d4 persistent fire)
Shield
Shocking Grasp +18 (2d12 + 3d6 sneak attack + 1d4 persistent damage; critical 4d12 + 6d6 sneak attack + 1d4 persistent damage) - can be heightened up to 3rd level, dealing more damage

Weapon Attacks
Rapier +19/+14/+9 (1d6 +3 + 3d6 sneak; critical 2d6 +6 + 6d6 sneak + 1d8 deadly)
Shortbow +19/+14/+9 (1d6 +2 + 3d6 sneak; critical 2d6 +4 + 6d6 sneak + 1d10 deadly)

----

It seems quite viable to me, and it's not really optimized yet. What do you think?

Hey everyone, I've been reading the APG and I'm about to build my character for an upcoming Agents of Edgewatch campaign. I'd like to create a halfling eldritch trickster rogue, most probably with a sorcerer dedication. My abilities should be Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18. A few questions I've been asking myself, with no answers so far:

1) Which bloodline should I take? Thematically speaking, I think both the Shadow bloodline and the Genie (djinni) bloodline would fit in very well. After all, Deception is going to be a very important skill for me. But then, what's the best magic tradition: occult (shadow) or arcana (genie)?

2) Which cantrip should I use with Magical Trickster? As far as I can understand, I need a cantrip with the Attack trait (I have to make a spell attack roll to add sneak attack damage), so electric arc and chill touch are not an option. I think produce flame would be better than telekinetic object, because the former can be cast both in melee and as a ranged attack, but I'm not really sure.

3) Apart from cantrips, which would be the best attack spells to take as I level up? If I remember correctly, most attack spells take 2 actions, so it would make sense for them to be quite powerful if I have to forego 2 weapon attacks... so, maybe the arcana tradition would give me better attack spells but the occult list would provide more utilities?

Thanks for your suggestions, have a good game!

Can anybody provide the link to the pregenerated characters the adventure mentions at page 3? Thanks!

You don't need high Charisma to qualify for Eldritch Heritage if you play a Human.

Yes, but as I stated in my first post my character is a tiefling :-)

Alright, thanks everybody for your suggestions.

So far, here's what I think:

- Iron Will + Familiar Bond + Improved Familiar would work well. It takes 3 feats to have this, though, and Familiar Bond does not grant many of the special abilities a normal familiar grants. Mechanically, it doesn't seem particularly great, but this looks indeed like the most official way to get to my idea.

- Skill focus (knowledge) + Eldritch Heritage (arcane) is something I wouldn't take because of my low Charisma and because it seems quite far from the idea I've made up, thematically speaking.

- Inspired chemist and Tinkerer cannot stack, as they alter or remove the same features. In any case, I wouldn't skip Gun Chemist as I really like it.

- It looks to me there is no point in taking the Spell Knowledge discovery, as avr said. Too bad tumor familiars cannot become improved familiars.

Hello, I am going to start a War for the Crown campaign and I'm playing a tiefling alchemist.

I am a bit uncertain regarding alchemist archetypes. I really like the gun chemist, and my GM approved it. He also suggested that I could mix it with the inspired chemist archetype, so that my character somehow feels like a sort of investigator.

So far so good, but then I stumbled into the tinkerer archetype and I thought wow, it would be great to have an alchemist that can shoot with guns and create clockwork companions. However, those two archetypes (gun chemist and tinkerer) cannot be mixed, as they alter the same class features.

The reason why I was impressed with the tinkerer is that I'd love to get a clockwork familiar eventually. I thought that, instead of the tinkerer archetype, I could just take the Improved Familiar feat at level 7 and get a clockwork raven, but apparently alchemists do not qualify for the Improved Familiar feat.

Then I figured I could get a tumor familiar and give it the sage archetype, so it could be useful for my knowledge checks. However, I don't like the idea of having a familiar stuck into my own body: aesthetically, I would rather have a clockwork familiar. Maybe my GM could allow me to reskin the tumor familiar into a mechanical raven or something like that, by keeping all the stats and abilities of a raver and just adding some clockwork fluff to that recipe... but I have the idea that I'm getting stuck into my own tinkering with archetypes and familiars :-P

So, my question is: what kind of combination would you see fit for an alchemist who has a knack for creating and fixing things and would gladly accept the company of a familiar?

Thanks for the advice!

Mauler replaces speak with animals of its kind, improved familiars don't have that ability to be replaced. That is indeed the problem.

Ambassador, emissary, occult messenger, prankster and sage are the familiar archetypes which an improved familiar can take.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up! I'll ask my GM about it.

Mauler isn’t compatible with Improved Familiar full stop. You could go for a dex build on an improved familiar if you are just using it to fish for crits. Non-improved are generally limited to natural weapons, which aren’t great for crit range.

I may be missing something here, but why would Improved Familiar not be compatible with the Mauler archetype?

The only thing I can think of is this:
Improved Familiars Restriction: The abilities of an improved familiar don’t stack with those of any familiar archetype that alters or replaces the variable bonus a familiar grants its master or speak with animals of its kind. (A leshy warden’s leshy familiar doesn’t grant a variable bonus or speak with animals of its kind, so it doesn’t have abilities that stack with those familiar archetypes.)

However, if I’m not wrong nothing says IF and Mauler are not compatible. Again, this might just be my mistake...

Alright, thanks. Shared Training (I mean the spell) seems fine.

Next step: which improved familiar could eventually get some benefit from the Mammoth spirit abilities and the Mauler archetype? Both improve the familiar's Strength score, and I guess the best way to use Outflank could be with an attack that has a high critical threat range (19-20, maybe even 18-20). Any suggestions?

Thanks again for the suggestions!

Now, I realize the next question is going to sound strange. While discussing my character's build with my GM, he suggested me to take the Mauler familiar archetype and look up for something like the Eldritch Guardian's Share Training ability.

Eventually, my GM suggests to take the Improved Familiar feat and share the other combat feats I'm going to take (e.g. Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Outflank, etc.) with the familiar.

I'm still trying to understand if there's a 'legal' way to take something like this feat. The GM would even let me take Share Training in place of a shaman hex, but I'd rather have a character that complies with the PFS rules...

So funny enough improved init isn't critical for you..combat reflexes allows you to attack when flat footed..so you roll a 3 and they charge in...you still get that attack of opp. Big thing is avoid full round casting (aka enlarge person isn't great unless you pre-buff)

For your familiar I would probably go protector, at level 5 you split damage. So that will help with the hp issue. I would also consider what you will take for your wandering hex at 4, I'm not sold on mammoth but your call.

If you do a search in the forums for shaman reach, you will find a ton of my posts and a lot of good advice.

I agree, Improved Initiative probably isn't the most useful feat and I'm currently thinking about retraining and taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Fauchard) in its place. As I wrote above, having a keen fauchard means 15-20 critical threat range AND a reach weapon, which seems to synergise well with my companions having Outflank.

As for the familiar, I'm not very... familiar with familiar tactics *ahem*
So, if you wouldn't mind explaining... I mean, do you use your familiar to deliver touch attacks? For which spells?

Also, I will do a thorough research in the next few days and try to read as much as I can on reach shamans. Have you considered writing a guide? ;-)

That’s why I’m mostly looking for long term buffs. The general idea would be to buff myself before combat and then just use melee attacks from a relatively safe distance.
I realize warpriests might be better, but so far I’m really enjoying my shaman!

More regarding ability scores: I think you'd be better served to drop your charisma score and bump up your wisdom. 14 Wis is good for a 20 point build, but with a 25 point buy, you can afford a 16.

As for this, the AP we are playing now (Reign of Winter) granted us a +2 inherent bonus to an Ability of our choice, so I chose Wisdom and pumped it to 16 just before getting to 3rd level.

You are right, though Quicken Spell turns Divine Favor into a 5th level spell (the same as Overland Flight)...
I have to think and plan carefully!

So far I took the Slumber (witch) Hex. I chose the Mammoth spirit because it fits my background and the GM suggested it. As for a Dex/Con swap, that might be an idea.
Toughness is a feat I’m considering for later, but first I came up with the idea of taking the Exotic Weapon Proficiency for the fauchard. If I could buy a +1 keen fauchard and later take the Outflank feat (which my hunter friend already has, both for herself and for her wolf), I’d have a 15-20 critical threat range and a +4 bonus for flanking, and critical hits provoke attacks of opportunity from party members with the Outflank feat. This seems a nice plan so far
As for hexes, my GM suggests the Wings hex (from a handbook whose name I can’t recall now), which would allow me to make reach attacks from above, although the duration is quite short.

I would need some advice on how to build my melee shaman. So far I'm level 3 and this is what I've chosen.

Point buy 25 - no 3p materials

Human (Erutaki, just in case you wondered)
Str 18 / Dex 14 / Con 12 / Int 8 / Wis 14 / Cha 14
Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Power Attack (I'm using a longspear as main weapon)
Mammoth Spirit.

My main question is what I should focus on for the next levels. I have somehow tried to get inspiration from the reach cleric guides, but I don't think I'm going to find anything like Sacred Summons for shortening Summon Nature's Ally casting time, so I'm not sure summoning creatures will be my main strength. Should I just invest in melee combat feats? Which ones? Should I instead gradually move on to casting spells and trying to get attacks of opportunity?

Any help is appreciated, thanks!