Flesh Golem

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Organized Play Member. 70 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 Organized Play characters.


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Grand Lodge

DesolateHarmony wrote:

PFS gives you a 20-point buy, which is pretty good for an animal shaman. But really, you have to decide if you are going to primarily be a wild-shaped melee combatant first, or a caster first. They have different builds and feat progressions.

Guides are really useful for this sort of thing, but you have to be able to adjust to the specifics: Druid guide with animal shamans

thank you for the link. it's usefulness can not be stressed enough for a first time druid user.

Grand Lodge

I came up with an idea but don't know if it will work or how to go about it.
My first question is can three things grapple one character at a time? If not i still want help optimizing this build. I want to buil a serpent shaman (druid archetype ). My original idea is to have a constrictor as a companion, summon another constrictor, and wild shape into one as well and all grabble and constrict the same target until he dies then move towards the next. But if it is not possible i still want to try and get the most damage i can out of a serpent shaman. Question two, if i instead used all venomous snakes does our venom stack, if each snake bites him onces is he receiving 3d3 on con damage instead of just 1d3?

Grand Lodge

So i haven't played a druid before. i like the concept for roleplaying purposes, but have never looked into building one until now so im am lost on good feats to make him mechanically sound. Most if the stuff is not in the core books you will have to list references so i can print some stuff.
I have been looking into the animal shaman archetype and really like the concepts. I really like the idea of the idea of the serpent shaman and between myself and constrictor companion being a grapple team. I don't know how to make this functionally work well or if it can be done.

Grand Lodge

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If this game was at "games +1" then i was a player at this table, if not we have a drunken monk doing the exact same thing. The problem seemed to be that the character potentially had unlimited free ki healing, unlimited free extra attacks, unlimited ki movement, and many other ki abilities. He drinks back all of his ki at the end of every combat. Now i am not a GM only a player and i don't know the RAW for these abilities but from a fellow pc at the table it sucked being next to him because it was pretty sitting back watching him take care of all the battles nearly single handed at i believe lvl 5 or 6 on day of the demon high tier.
if their are not rules against it, their should be for the sake of balancing to keep games fun.

Grand Lodge

The subject pretty much covers it. I am getting ready to play a society game and i am trying to purchase daylight oil but the DM is asking me for the book. I need to know before 6 because i have a sneaking suspicion that i will be fighting demons in the scenario "day of demon". Just a hunch. No spoilers please just the book.

Grand Lodge

Okay i know i am wet behind my ears when it comes to pathfinder but why is One using nonlethal damage and how is he doing it without taking a -4 penalty.

Grand Lodge

I would like some of the players and GMs at my local pfs events to read this thread. I had a character all mapped out the way i wanted him, he was as close to an undead lord as i could legally make and fought with neg channel then the shop owner and one of the main GMs pretty much said that nobody is going to want to play with this character including them and even if it was legal i would be hard pressed to get a game because they wouldn't GM for it. So my character was retired before her first scenario.

Grand Lodge

Remy Balster wrote:
inhuman_candyman wrote:
One minor change to your build and i love it. I would dump the wisdom, palis and oracles both have great will saves as it is and either put 2points in dex and 2 in int or also lower the int score by 1 and use the 5 free points to con to a 16. Need those hit points.

Yes of course. There is plenty room for customizing, I was bouncing those stats up and down for a few minutes before settling in on the ones posted. But higher dex/con would both be helpful in the frontlines. More Str would be nice too, offensively. Int wa hard to justify dmping because it'd drop skills to 1/pal level, that is rough. Wis can go down, just...perception is my drug of choice so I almost never drop a wis below 10. But that is all to taste.

The core package is just str/con/cha. Melee fightery type. Passive group heal through life link, swift self heals with LoH, and burst aoe heals with channel. Toss in a little minor divine magics for rounding out the edges.

I've seen one played, but haven't actually had the pleasure myself. It was remarkably effective both offensively and defensively. Just an awesome addition to a group in general.

I covered my bases on the 1sp for pali levels by taking Finding Haleen - paladin for a trait. Makes pali a favored class also plus i get 1sp &hp per level of it i take on top of the normal bonus which i take in form of hp as well. It seemed a better choice to me rather than a +1 to luck based rolls. Now instead, i have both pali and oracle as favored classes and every pali level i take i get 1sp and 2hp and with one of the feat slots i asked for you to leave open for me i intend on taking toughness. The way i see this build working i need all the hp i can get. So i dumped wis took int to 9 and boosted con. Went oracle, pali,pali, oracle and going to go till oracle 4 then take the rest in pali.

In the end the only changes will be 2 less on will saves, 1 higher on con, a little less to hit and damage but alot more hp which makes it so i can keep the life link and shield other up longer.

Thanks for all the help with the build. I already love playing it.

Grand Lodge

Thank you all for the advice. I knocked my stats around, grabbed a wand of bless and infernal healing and rocked out at the pathfinder convention. Went from fresh level 2 to almost level 5 now and loving this character more than my beloved BAMF'ing barbarian. I had to adjust my play style alot be im using a frontline fighter. Things were a little shaky at first but everyone really appreciated having me around since the only other healer in our group was a level 3 druid with the war domain so not much help.
Remy i changed the order i took the levels in because i felt i needed heavy armor sooner so my second level i took 1 pali level then went back to oracle. For those times i get a little ancey and want to go and pound something.

Grand Lodge

One minor change to your build and i love it. I would dump the wisdom, palis and oracles both have great will saves as it is and either put 2points in dex and 2 in int or also lower the int score by 1 and use the 5 free points to con to a 16. Need those hit points.

Grand Lodge

Here is how i did it.
Gnome emissory cavalier (gnome gets speak with animal which is useful before level 4 when i raise my wolfs int score so he can other feats)
Mount wolf, narrow frame so after size increase still fits in hallways. Plus gets trip
Traits: animal friend get a +1 will save whenever your near an animal which is always, reactionary just incase your party is not good at staying out of your way so you can charge freely.
Str:14
Dex:14
Con:16
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:12
I tool order of the sword because it pairs well with the emissory, also thats why my cha is 12 so i can use the order ability knights challenge at 15 but if your only going to 12 you can probably dump it.

Your effectiveness is not only dependent on your feats but also your monuts.
1. You: power attack, mounted combat
Mount: light armor prof., combat reflexes
2. Order of the sword gain +2 to will (because you can be a BAMF and still die from tanking a will save)
Mount: medium armor prof.
3. Ride by attack
Mount: evasion
4.abi str
mount abi int (now i can speak freely with my wolf and he can take any feat is is physically capable of performing )
This is wear this build starts to shine.
5. Spirited charge, mobility(bonus applies to your mount)
Mount: bodygaurd, mobility
6. Furious focus (all the fun from PA no penalties)
Mount devotion
7. Improved overrun
Wolf becomes large
8. Trample (order ability bonus) abi str.
In harms way.
Now you should be nearly untouchable. With any attack that would hit you have your mount take it and unless you roll a 1 you should be able to negate most attacks with a ride check.
9. Charge through, trick riding (bonus applies in medium armor)
Multiattack abi str
10.
Toughness
11. Dazing assault
12. Combat reflexes (bonus)

Thats my build to 12, he is currently 10 and i love him. Just grab a lance and charge charge charge. While mounted a lance held in one hand but you still choose to hold it in two to get the extra damage.

Grand Lodge

I really like the idea of the oracle/paladin build with regards to life link and being able to swift heal myself. I was trying to build on up amd as i flipped through book after book and pdf after pdf i realized i didn't have enough of an understanding of the oracle in generalor the paladin archtypes. I know the 3.5 paladin almost by heart because I loved rollplaying the paladin. I played the s*~~ out of the snobby holier than thou crusader. The one who would cut off the rogues finger if he caught him stealing to feed his family, then in a very elitist demeanor would flip him a few gold. My friends told me i roll played an a$##%$& really well (it's because i wasn't roleplaying).

I know I've switched gears with this build a lot and it's because people have been giving me some really good suggestion and ideas but if you could make me a paladin/oracle that can heal great in and out of battle that can still tank i would absolutely love it. I love playing the beat stick. I understand to be a healbot he is going to be subpar on the frontlines, but you tell me how to handle the healing and i can handle making him a combat contestant. Just save me atleast 3 feats.

Grand Lodge

I think you can take this even further. I started playing DnD with 3.0 and fell in love with the game. Ino i feel anyone who truly loves a game should at least play it's predecessor to gain not only an understanding of how the game came to be the way it is but a also a respect. So my friend's and I played a few campaigns of ADnD and even the original Dnd. When we did this we gained a better understanding of why certain rules have the limitation that they do and why some rules where added. You start to see its broken beginnings as it flows into something more.
I have only very recently started playing pathfinder so yes my understanding of the rules come fom 3.0/3.5. At least once a game at my weekly society meetings i try to do something that was normal in 3.5 but has now been changed. I was a builder of broken characters, spending days building a character. In some ways i love what pathfinder has done, they fixed alot of balancing issues but i will always revert back to 3.0/3.5 when i find myself with a question of mechanics and how rules should work because thats what i learned first.
I highly recommend anybody who has only played pathfinder to find a group of 3.0/3.5 players and play a campaign. You will gain a better understanding of rules, and imo a better appreciation for the game. And if you can get ahold of some ADnD books at least read through them, even better try and get some people to play. And if you come across some 4.0 stuff... burn it, it's garbage :-)

Grand Lodge

I've already bought a wand of clw but what is infernal healing? And im not real sure how purchasing things with prestige works. Or how fame works for dictating what you can and cannot buy. Im real new to pathfinder and society. I played 3.0/3.5.

Grand Lodge

Okay again I'm way behind the curve on casters but couldn't i always grab wands of lesser and greater restore, remove curse and the likes? If i play this character the way i think im going to, as a conscientious objector (pacifist), the money i save from buying weapons and damage dealing items i could spend on buffing/ debuffing and condition repairing wands right? Also how bad would a one level dip into either bard or sorc hurt the build that remy posted so i could grab arcane wands/scrolls as well.
Or dipping one level unbreakable fighter to get heavy armor and tower shield for my protection and getting endurance and die hard so i can get the feat fast healer? And if it wouldn't hurt much, what level would be a good choice for it?

Grand Lodge

Awesome dude. Thanks.

Grand Lodge

Remy Balster wrote:

Same guy @6th

Gear:headband +2, phylactery, whatever
Str 7
Dex 12
Con 18
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 21
HP 57
Feat: Fey foundling, selective channel(select 5), quick channel
Revlations: Channel(effective lvl 9 5d6 dc 19 6/day), Life Link

• Non action: 5 hp to all
• Standard: 7d6 channel(7d6+14 self) or 3d8+6 cure(3d8+12 self)
• Move: 7d6 channel(7d6+14 self)

Avg heals: 54 to everyone, 77 to self by double channeling. Or 29.5 to everyone, 49 to one, and 38.5 self with cure and channel.

Options abound…

Is this build pfs legal? Where is fey foundling located?

If this build is pfs legal i would like you to step out this build by level please. Send it to me as a private message please. I have no problems playing a dedicated healer, i was a corpsman in the Navy. I think i could play this character real well.

Grand Lodge

Thank you guys for all the advice. I would like to stick with cleric mainly for my calming touch since we have 3 people who use rage. Since im still level one i have the ability to change my character completely so it looks like i will be moving my stats around. Funny neither i nor the GM noticed i accidentally built a 25 point build. It's out of habit from playing home games but this was a society character so he is suppose to be a 20 point build. Got to fix that as well. I didn't realize how s%$!ty i had build this character until you guys started pointing things out. Im going to stick with aasimar only because his resistance to acid saved him from going down when he was hit with 2d6 acid and the GM rolled 6 on both dice and he was the only one capable of healing. I have until Saturday to get this character right. There is a convention of all day gaming. I actually hope i don't have to use him but i want him ready for whenever i need to use him. So to turn this forum in a new direction, im needing a 20 point aasimar with erastil as his deity and atleast one domain being community.
im looking for him to be a good enough healer to hopefully keep everyone alive but be capable of helping the party out with other tasks. Either skill based,buffs, debuffs, or actual combat damage. I don't care. He is just starting level 2. I don't need him broken or optimized, just capable to still being an asset to the team if i play him up to level 12.
The rest is open game. Please since im new to casters, step out the character through level progression and explain what things do. I only have a fame of 5 so purchases are limited.

Grand Lodge

Matthew Pittard wrote:

Raised in the company of skilled healers, you were always encouraged to devote your time and energy to the welfare of others. Whenever you take 20 on a Heal check to treat deadly wounds, you restore an additional 1d4 hit points to those you aid.

Your faith in the natural world or one of the gods of nature makes it easy for you to pick up on related concepts. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (geography) and Knowledge (nature) checks, and one of these skills (your choice) is always a class skill for you.

The vaults of the Grand Lodge in Absalom contain many secrets of the divine powers of the gods, and you have studied your deity extensively. You may channel energy one additional time per day.

I apologise for my earlier outburst. I just get fed up of seeing Reactionary being taken. Im decidedly not an optimiser

Thank you. Those do seem like much better choices. Do you know if they are combat, faith, or magic.

I really like exalted of the society and devotee of the green.

Grand Lodge

Everyone keeps telling me to drop my cha score but I've said that im looking for advice on making the current build work for me and advice for future levels, not advice on redoing my character.
I keep mentioning cross classing with either fire elemental sorc or a bard and possibly pursuing mystic thurge; and i have been asking for opinions on that, if you think it would work well, and everyone is avoiding the idea. Is it that bad of an idea? I thought it would be a good use of my high cha that i would like to keep to be able to channel as many times as possible. I will take the advice of putting skill points in diplomacy to make use of my high cha.

Major problem i see with cross classing arcane is ditching the armor. Any good way to overcome that except mage/sacred armor, and shield?

Grand Lodge

Talon89 wrote:

believe it or not, being latter in the initiative order is a healers best friend. It allows you to react to party damage better, but i recommend you lower the charisma a bit. Only channeling is really effected by that stat... selective is your best friend, but you don't need the ability to exclude 5 foes... if your party is damaging five enemies at the same time, something is wrong.

I would suggest focusing on diplomacy, if you keep that cha. It will make your character more useful in alot of situations.

with erastil as a diety, you may want to look at ranged combat options... though at times that will make healing difficult. Playing a healer is all about reactions on the combat field and adapting.

Well i mainly took erastil because of the community domain so i could get calming touch. The group i made him to play with had 3 barbarians so i liked calming touch to rid them of their fatigue if their rage ended before the battle. I only knew about that because i played a barbarian and took one level of cleric so i could use it to rage cycle better. I only looked into what else my cleric got from her in game two and realized that i get longbow proficiency. Like I've said, i have never played a caster in pathfinder and i threw this character together in about 5min. It wasn't a plan to make it into an actual pc. I thought i was only goingnto play him once. So i know i made flaws in my build.

Grand Lodge

MrSin wrote:

As far as healing goes, you can always nab a wand of cure light wounds or infernal healing with your PP after your first game. In combat healing is a bit bleh because it doesn't scale very well.

Clerics are a bit weird. They start out being capable of being martial and as time goes on their spell casting gets better and better. Their domains can really change how they play and usually they lack spells that require high DCs. You can lower that wisdom to 17 safely I'd bet, unless you plan to be blasty or focus on debuffs that allow saves. One of the nice things about playing a cleric is that you can change your spells from day to day with no cost if you feel like you have a better one for a situation or if you feel like your first choice was a mistake.

My wisdom is only 16, you mean lower my charisma? I have the charisma at 20 for extra channels plus selective channeling. Plus if you read my post i listed my deity and domains. Like i said when i threw him together i made him able to be an amazing healer for level 1s. Ive had to play him twice now because the groups that i get into the last two times haven't had a healer and i see it being a reoccurring problem. I wasn't planning on playing him past level 1 but i also hate playing without a healer so it looks like he is going to be my new primary character. I figure since he has such a high charisma score i would make him a arcane/divine caster by adding sorc or bard and possibly perusing mystic thurge. I have been looking through the sorc bloodlines and like the idea of going elemental and picking fire. Gives me some damage dealing ability along with my damage healing abilities. But the bard gives me alot of skill abilities.

I don't really know what route im taking with him because I've only played casters in 3.0/3.5 and those were only arcane archers and tricksters so my experience with them is very low. That's why im asking for help.

Grand Lodge

Matthew Pittard wrote:

Okay how about:

Devoted Healer
Devotee of the Green
Exalted of the Society.

What do these do exactly? Like i said, i play tanks and rogues so i like getting top initiative to catch the people flat footed that first round. I had to through this character together in about 5 min without ever playing a caster in pathfinder before.

Grand Lodge

I also need help deciding on gear. Right now i have a wand of cure light and a few potions also a few potions of remove fear. Wearing scale mail and carrying a shield. Weapons are a morning star, and long bow. My 2 skill points i get are in knowledge religion, arcana. I only have. 287gp right now so i probably can't do much aboit gear right now.

Grand Lodge

I recently speed built a cleric before a society game once i realized our group of level 1s had no healer and not enough money to buy potions. I can build broken tanks all day but casters are not my forté. I need a little help (actually alot of help) figuring out where to go with this character from here. When you suggest spells or magic feats you will need to explain what they do because like i said, i don't build casters. He is only level one but here is what i have right now. Im not wanting to rebuild, i just want to add on, and figure out what im going to do at each level.
Lawful good aasimar with erastil deity
stats
str 10
dex 14
Con 12
Int 7
Wis 16
Cha 20
Feat: selective channeling. Traits: reactive (+2 initiative), sacred conduit.
Domains : good/ community

He sucks in combat, i built him to just be an amazing healer to keep everyone alive. Now that people have played a few missions and have gold to buy a few cure light potions i can go another direction. I still want him to stay a decent healer because its always helpful to have one of those around but right now he is set up only to heal and i would like to do more than that. I have the xp to take my second level and highly leaning towards sorcerer and building a mystic thurge. Opinions?

Grand Lodge

Wow everyone is coming up with so many ideas and i still havd no clue which route im going. I need this character by sat to play a society Marathon. But i have never built or played a character like this. I can build arcane cannons all day, i can build a damage dealing monster that is unrivaled, i can build the sneakiest rouge assassins ever. But i have no idea how to build support characters that still have flair. Most of you are mentioning traits, feats, spells and archetypes that i have no idea what they do because in building my broken power characters I've completely disregarded them.
Now i want to switch gears and play the support character and im completely lost. Its funny that i have played dnd for over 12 years now and now play pathfinder and have never even sat down and looked at a bard, never have i considered playing one because they always just looked like little b@$&~es. I've always wanted a master in their trade. Now i want a true jack of all trades. If i throw out the idea of being a pacifist and just say i just don't want damage dealing high on his priority lists, what can you guys come up with? You might need to explain the build in detail because like i said i haven't played on of these characters ever. I want the support character you would always want in your party. Not a liability where you feel like your carrying him. Someone that is always helpful to have around. Like the swiss army knife. Throw a little combat in just incase he gets into a pinch but no need to.focus to much on it.

As i was looking i was getting interested in a halfling bard/ranger because as i see it i would have all skills as class skills... thoughts?
If someone could optimize this build it would be really awesome or tell me where the flaws in this is.

Grand Lodge

Ok i need all you minmaxers out there for this guy. My only stipulations is this character must be society legal. I want to build that doesn't focus on damage dealing at all. Here are the things i want from this character listed in order of importance. Try to incorporate as many as you can into the build as possible.
Assist party in combat but not dealing damage.
Skill monkey
High AC and saves (i don't want to get knocked out for helping everyone)
Use all wands

In general i want a character who more than makes up for not dealing any combat damage by his ability to always being able to help. I want the best support character you can possibly build.

Grand Lodge

How about a DR24/- by level 20. Not my build but if you want DR this is your tank.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2m7-opqn6ZqNFdnSjQ2Y2V1V28/preview

Grand Lodge

Not my build but recently came across this and thought this is a BAMF all the way
http://d20minmax.wikia.com/wiki/Crit_Fiend
Crits like a mad man.

Grand Lodge

I thought about this as well, mainly just a theory build for s$&$s and giggles but i built a evil anti-pali/ cavalier who rode a shadow steed with a vorpal scythe. I kinda balanced str and dex. Had my mount take the bodyguard feat that way any attack that would have landed on me he took and with cavalier you can negate any attack on your mount with a ride check. Doesn't seem practical to play starting at level on and building up but theory built is a major badass.

Grand Lodge

Thalin wrote:
Why? Players do it; catching people perfectly in cutout of spells or planning movements and such based on each other's (in-game) abilities. You have to fiat that all players/monsters tend to have an understanding of how the mechanics of the world affect them. If someone is getting knocked over each time they try to punch a guy, there's a good chance that people start to realize that it's a bad idea and the guy is taunting them on purpose; one may even make the relatively low DC to realize Panther Style.

I don't do it as a player, and i hate people who do even if it's our only chance of survival. I constantly am calling fellow party members and the GM out on metagaming. I feel it takes away from the fantasy when you play it like a "game" instead of putting yourself their amd becoming your character. I've made plenty of actions that i knew were going to harm myself or others or at least make things much more difficult only because thats what my character would do.

Meeting people out on the middle of the road, playing it as a game, you have your weapon out. Or walking through town and skirmish breaks out and players move and attack as if they already had a weapon at the ready. Its all metagaming and it takes away the realness that the game should feel.
You meet a stranger on the road, if they are not making threatening jestures i say your sword is still sheathed.
I had a barbarian use a slashing weapon on a gelatinous cube starting out because he had never encountered one. He also, because of a long story, didn't speak common. He only spoke orc, so if no one translated for me or could even speak orc, i played completely dumb. Killed key informants that the group had decided to try and keep alive all because my character didn't know it. I ignore out of game conversations or discussing tactics while fighting unless they are yelling at him during battle in orc. And if he is raging i sometimes still ignore them if the plan is to strategic for a character of a 7 int to grasp while he is in mid rage.

When i DMed for dnd 3.0/3.5 i docked people xp for metagaming. Someone happens to decide to make another search check just because the first pc made one and rolled a 1. And i rolled all their spot checks myself behind a screen.
Plain and simple metagaming ruins games and i have refused to play with many people who do it.

Grand Lodge

Cap. Darling wrote:
inhuman_candyman wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:
Since it is for PFS i think it will be wise to expect that some GMs will read some of the styles different than you do and just Roll with it when that happends. Also Lunge is a great feat but i dont think you can use it for the styles since it works in your own turn, at least how i read it. I was thinking that step up could ba an alternative but what you want is reach on your retaliating attacks from panther style yes?
The retaliating attacks are during your turn. Im running around durning my turn provoking people to attack me and thats how i get the retaliating attacks so i can use lunge with those attacks.

sorry yes you are rigth (the snake attacks is where you will have reach problems)

but my other point is still ehh pointy... In PFS you will often have different GMs.
I think it looks like a fun character and a good addition to most groups but.
I suggest you make a more classic back up character to play if you get a GM that dosent read the books like you do. That way you dont have to feel cheatet out of your fun.

Well im planning on using my snake fang during my turn also. See i provoke an AoO, make my retaliation attacks before they get to make thier AoO because of panther claw/parry. So drop three unarmed strikes against them. (In theory with my understanding of panther claw) . So if they are a large character i activate lunge and still hit them, then they make their AoO which im hoping the miss due to lightning strike, mobility, dodge and all the rest of my AC. Once they miss it is still my turn so i can still lunge to make my own AoO with snake fang.

I guess if i want to use it during my enemies turn on large size characters i could work Side Step into the build. That way once they miss me i can take an immediate 5foot step then take my AoO. I could only make one snake fang attack though because the second is also an immediate action.

Grand Lodge

Cap. Darling wrote:
Since it is for PFS i think it will be wise to expect that some GMs will read some of the styles different than you do and just Roll with it when that happends. Also Lunge is a great feat but i dont think you can use it for the styles since it works in your own turn, at least how i read it. I was thinking that step up could ba an alternative but what you want is reach on your retaliating attacks from panther style yes?

The retaliating attacks are during your turn. Im running around durning my turn provoking people to attack me and thats how i get the retaliating attacks so i can use lunge with those attacks.

Grand Lodge

And reading the description of the feats it says a rapid series of blows. So after they make their AoO, when it is my turn to act, i make a rapid series of blow in retaliation to them attacking me. And i make a number of attacks against them equal to my wisdom mod. I like the idea of one trigger one attack because that would give me more attacks per round when i combine it with snake fang but the way it sounds to me, once i trigger it against one enemy i use up to 3 attacks against him and can't use any on the next foe.
I would prefer to make one attack against 3 foes because that gives me a chance to usewe snake fang against those three as well but to make "a rapid series of blows" i think its all or nothing on one foe. Which is still fine with me just not what i thought i was building. I wanted to do my own version of crowd control. Kinda like wirlwind attack but being able to move around to my targets.

Grand Lodge

I don't think its one trigger=one attack. Read the description of panther claw , it says you unleash a rapid series of blows... i think i have to use all of them on one guy and i don't get them for the next guy. It is what the description would lead you to believe.

Grand Lodge

Even after correcting this at level 2 i have the ability to make up to 2 attacks in my turn plus up to 3 AoO if the GM is dumb (so i don't see myself getting these). At level 3 can make up to 6 attacks per round. Level 4, up to 9 max. And up to 10 attacks in one round at level 10, all at full BAB... im happy with that.

Grand Lodge

inhuman_candyman wrote:

Got a build for you. Sorry i don't have it in Google whatever form or have the spoiler blocks up.

What do you get when you cross a rattlesnake and a panther?
I give you the diamondback panther.
Your best bet is just to leave him alone.

Human master of many styles/qinggong monk Traits :indomitable faith (+1will saves) because my last two guys have died from having crappy will saves. And reactionary (+2 to initiative )

Str 14 Dex 16 (14+2) Con 13 Int 11 Wis 16 Cha 7

Human: combat reflexes 1. Fighter- dodge mobility. Medium armor and lucerene hammer. Fight like a normal fighter with a reach weapon. 2. Monk- panther style. This is where he starts to get a little fun. Ditch the hammer and medium armor, grab a chain shirt and a heavy shield and go capt. America on there ass. Shield and fist, try and provoke as many AoO before stopping in front of an enemy and get 1 attack against everyone who took the AoO against you plus get a final attack against the guy you stopped in front of. Panther attacks are not AoO so take as many as you can get. 3. Monk- snake style, snake fang. Same as level 2 but now each time they miss you with there attack you can take up to 4 extra attacks; 3 AoO from snake fang and one poor sap gets hit woth another unarmed strike if you land your AoO. Thats up to 8 attacks in a round at level 3. 4. Fighter- pather claw. Now this gets crazy. What do you do? Provoke, provoke, provoke! Panther claw allows you to make a number of unarmed attacks equal to your wisdom mod on everyone you provoke an AoO from. That's 3 attacks plus 1 for up to three guys who miss their AoO against you plus an additional 1 on somebody you land your first snake fang on, all before making yout standard attack action. increase wisdom for 4th level. Try to get mitheral breast plate of brawling asap. 5. Monk- panther parry. Now your retaliation attacks are resolved before your opponents AoO. So at 5 level you might kill them before they even get to finish their AoO. Again you can do this as many times as there are...

I guess i have a correction to make. I see why i thought this guy was too good to be true, because he is.

Panther style only allows the character to make one retaliation attack per turn since it is done as a swift action. Panther style makes the attacks free actions and acording to the core rule book its up to the GM to reasonably decide what can be done for free. But you still get atleast your wis mod worth of attacks so i think ill keep him.

Grand Lodge

Now i see why i thought it was so over powered.

Grand Lodge

I guess with panther style your attack is a swift action and you can perform only a single swift action per turn. But panther claw is a free action and the book states its decided by the gm what can reasonably be performed for free so i guess you are correct.

Grand Lodge

Got a build for you. Sorry i don't have it in Google whatever form or have the spoiler blocks up.
What do you get when you cross a rattlesnake and a panther?
I give you the diamondback panther.
Your best bet is just to leave him alone.

Human master of many styles/qinggong monk Traits :indomitable faith (+1will saves) because my last two guys have died from having crappy will saves. And reactionary (+2 to initiative )

Str 14 Dex 16 (14+2) Con 13 Int 11 Wis 16 Cha 7

Human: combat reflexes 1. Fighter- dodge mobility. Medium armor and lucerene hammer. Fight like a normal fighter with a reach weapon. 2. Monk- panther style. This is where he starts to get a little fun. Ditch the hammer and medium armor, grab a chain shirt and a heavy shield and go capt. America on there ass. Shield and fist, try and provoke as many AoO before stopping in front of an enemy and get 1 attack against everyone who took the AoO against you plus get a final attack against the guy you stopped in front of. Panther attacks are not AoO so take as many as you can get. 3. Monk- snake style, snake fang. Same as level 2 but now each time they miss you with there attack you can take up to 4 extra attacks; 3 AoO from snake fang and one poor sap gets hit woth another unarmed strike if you land your AoO. Thats up to 8 attacks in a round at level 3. 4. Fighter- pather claw. Now this gets crazy. What do you do? Provoke, provoke, provoke! Panther claw allows you to make a number of unarmed attacks equal to your wisdom mod on everyone you provoke an AoO from. That's 3 attacks plus 1 for up to three guys who miss their AoO against you plus an additional 1 on somebody you land your first snake fang on, all before making yout standard attack action. increase wisdom for 4th level. Try to get mitheral breast plate of brawling asap. 5. Monk- panther parry. Now your retaliation attacks are resolved before your opponents AoO. So at 5 level you might kill them before they even get to finish their AoO. Again you can do this as many times as there are enemies within range to run past. Take a full round sprint action if you like. 6. Monk 7. Fighter- lunge. Now you can fight back against large characters too. 8. Monk- using the qinggong monk ability replace still mind with scorching ray. Abi wis. Now you can use scorching ray 4/day for those tougher characters. Unarmed strike is now a d8. 9. Fighter- weapon focus fist 10. Fighter- fortified armor training. Could mean the difference between life or death. If a crit might kill you, break the shield. 11. Fighter- windstance. Since you're always on the move this will help protect you from ranged attacks from archers and pesky speel casters. 12. Fighter- lightning stance. Abi dex. Grants you 50 percent concealment as long as you two action move or withdraw.

Carry alot of portions with this build. You're going to need them and just to taunt the enemies, drink the potion in their reach because your wanting them to attack you. This build also helps your party move more freely around the battlefield. Unless the enemies have combat reflexes you can soak up the AoO so your party can move right past the enemy if they want. Hopefully so your cleric can get to you and heal and buff you.

Major weaknesses are if enemies get smart and stop taking AoO against you and metagaming GM's that start encounters with the enemy already knowing not to take AoO against you. Also you are going to get hit alot because you are literally asking for it. CARRY LOTS OF POTIONS.

What do you think?

Grand Lodge

Nothing in the RAW says "per round". Even in the description of panther claw it says you retaliate back with rapid blows. I can make three attacks against each person by the way it is written.

Grand Lodge

I would like to thank some of you for pieces of advice in helping make this build. I think this is the final product but any advice or questions are still appreciated.

Human master of many styles/qinggong monk
Traits :indomitable faith (+1will saves) because my last two guys have died from having crappy will saves. And reactionary (+2 to initiative )

Str 14
Dex 16 (14+2)
Con 13
Int 11
Wis 16
Cha 7

Human: combat reflexes
1. Fighter- dodge mobility. Medium armor and lucerene hammer. Fight like a normal fighter with a reach weapon.
2. Monk- panther style. This is where he starts to get a little fun. Ditch the hammer and medium armor, grab a chain shirt and a heavy shield and go capt. America on there ass. Shield and fist, try and provoke as many AoO before stopping in front of an enemy and get 1 attack against everyone who took the AoO against you plus get a final attack against the guy you stopped in front of. Panther attacks are not AoO so take as many as you can get.
3. Monk- snake style, snake fang. Same as level 2 but now each time they miss you with there attack you can take up to 4 extra attacks; 3 AoO from snake fang and one poor sap gets hit woth another unarmed strike if you land your AoO. Thats up to 8 attacks in a round at level 3.
4. Fighter- pather claw. Now this gets crazy. What do you do? Provoke, provoke, provoke! Panther claw allows you to make a number of unarmed attacks equal to your wisdom mod on everyone you provoke an AoO from. That's 3 attacks plus 1 for up to three guys who miss their AoO against you plus an additional 1 on somebody you land your first snake fang on, all before making yout standard attack action. increase wisdom for 4th level. Try to get mitheral breast plate of brawling asap.
5. Monk- panther parry. Now your retaliation attacks are resolved before your opponents AoO. So at 5 level you might kill them before they even get to finish their AoO. Again you can do this as many times as there are enemies within range to run past. Take a full round sprint action if you like.
6. Monk
7. Fighter- lunge. Now you can fight back against large characters too.
8. Monk- using the qinggong monk ability replace still mind with scorching ray. Abi wis. Now you can use scorching ray 4/day for those tougher characters. Unarmed strike is now a d8.
9. Fighter- weapon focus fist
10. Fighter- fortified armor training. Could mean the difference between life or death. If a crit might kill you, break the shield.
11. Fighter- windstance. Since you're always on the move this will help protect you from ranged attacks from archers and pesky speel casters.
12. Fighter- lightning stance. Abi dex. Grants you 50 percent concealment as long as you two action move or withdraw.

Carry alot of portions with this build. You're going to need them and just to taunt the enemies, drink the potion in their reach because your wanting them to attack you. This build also helps your party move more freely around the battlefield. Unless the enemies have combat reflexes you can soak up the AoO so your party can move right past the enemy if they want. Hopefully so your cleric can get to you and heal and buff you.

Major weaknesses are if enemies get smart and stop taking AoO against you and metagaming GM's that start encounters with the enemy already knowing not to take AoO against you. Also you are going to get hit alot because you are literally asking for it. CARRY LOTS OF POTIONS.

So what do you think?

Grand Lodge

I had someone else look over this and show me a much better way to build this. I will post it later tonight. I think i got it perfect.

Grand Lodge

lemeres wrote:

Do you need such a high wisdom if you plan to wear a chainshirt/mithral breastplate? You are going to lose your wisdom boost to AC anyway. Except for Ki, is there a reason to keep it so high?

Also, remember the armor expert trait. This reduces Armor Check Penalty by 1, and ACP on your attack rolls is the penalty for wearing nonproficient armor. So getting it to 0 means the penalty is 0.

With this trait, you can wear: leather, studded leather, a masterwork chainshirt, or a mithral breastplate. You particularly need it for the breastplate, since mithral only reduces its -4 ACP by 3. Masterwork was always included in the mithral reduction since all mithral items are masterwork.

What are you talking about non proficiency with armor? Im a cross classed fighter.

Grand Lodge

Here is what i came up with for my final build. Tell me what you think and if you can see ways to improve it but still keeping the same basic play style down.

Human monk of many styles /qinggong monk
Str 11
Dex 18 (16+2)
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Cha 7

Traits: reactive, indomitable faith
Skills: max ranks in sense motive to take advantage of snake fang, perception, acrobatics

Feats:
Human: Dodge
1. Monk- crane style, crane wing
2. Fighter- weapon finesse
3. Monk- snake style, snake fang
4. Combat reflexes. Abi:wis
5. Monk- panther style
6. Monk- replace still mind for scorching rays
7. Fighter- combat styles master
8. Fighter- mobility. Abi:wis
9. Fighter- panther claw
10. Fighter- panther parry
11. Fighter- crane riposte
12. Wind stance

Basic play style is at level 1 flight defensively as often as possible and just assist the party and stay alive. Once get to level 3 go full defense or fight defensively and rely on snake fang. Upon getting pather style use snake amd panther fuse and provoke AoOs for crowd control and on boss fights fuse crane and snake and fight defensively. Level 7 cast a few scorching rays for extra damge. Once getting panther claw provoke provoke provoke. Boss fights always go back to crane and snake and fight defensively.
Seems to me this guy has pretty good saves all around. He is not going to be a tank but should be a contender.
Also 2nd level i use mitheral breastplate or chain shirt with brawling plus carrying a heavy shield in main hand with bashing on it.
What do you think? Contender?

Grand Lodge

Cap. Darling wrote:

I see no reason you cant get it all. But start with one style and go from there.

Do you want to be workable from level 1?
You will want, i think, Crane style(all 3), snake style(first and last i think is ok), Panther style(all 3) and Dragon style (1 and 2 for extra damage) MoMS cann have these running in 2 rounds or for one ki at level 15.
then pehaps unarmed figther for the last 5 levels for weapon traing.

I dont see any overpowered in it.nYou will need to have good Dex to get lots of AoOs, Wis for panther style, Con because you will be hit more often than some one that dosent provoke 5 AoOs every round, and Str to make all the attacks matter.
If you start out with the 2 first from crane style And a Level MoMS i think you can have fun character all the way.

Unfortunately this is a society build so i cap at level 12. As i look at it i see that im not going to be over powered but it sure will be a fun build to play and should be able to hold.my own.

Grand Lodge

On closer inspection i did overlook a few things. I can't take snake style at second level taking fighter because i need 3 ranks of sense motive and to gain the extra attacks from panther style i need to take panther claw as well. Also to use crane reposite (or whatever it's called ) i have to have crane wing as well. And i can't take combat style mastery untill i am either monk level 5 or have a bab of 6. I thought it was all coming together too nicely at such low levels. Have to do some more work.

Grand Lodge

Lord_Malkov wrote:

There are ways to make trips easier... mostly through items.

Gauntlets of the skilled maneuver are easy
Also... you can use a trip monk weapon to get the enhancement bonus of the weapon on your trip CMB.

Size is only an issue Ifd they are two size categories larger. And even then with ki throw feats you can play monster bowling... pretty fun.

Still yeah trips are conditional.

And yes you aee correct that panther parries do not use up AOOs. They are their own resource. The attacks from snake fang however ARE attacks of opportunity.

Instead of taking ki throwing feats what about taking one level of wizard or sorc aslong as you had a cha or int of 11. You then could have the spells enlarge and reduce person. If they are humanoid yoi could not only enlarge yourself but reduce them making it even easier to trip.

This build is interesting to me, just seeing how to minmax it for trip and extra attacks and also have it be able to hold it's own against creatures that can't be tripped.

Grand Lodge

Lord_Malkov wrote:

There are lots of funky builds.

Flowing monk with
Imp trip ,greater trip ,vicious stomp, combat reflexes, medusas wrath

Full attack vs three adjacent opponents
Trip one
A successful trip grants you an aoo from greater trip
Your aoo makes the target flat footed
You get another aoo when they fall from vicious stomp
Trip another .. 2 more aoos
Trip a third ... 2 more aoos
Get 2 free attacks from medusas wrath against a flat footed target (aka anything you hit with an aoo)

1round 3 trips, 8 attacks (more if hasted or if you spend a ki)
And they provoke again for standing up.

What level are you assuming this character at? Whats your rapid build plan to get to making 3 trips and 8AoO in a round? I would like to write up this character group him with some pregens and run a few mock battles to test his effectiveness not just once he reaches his prime but as he progresses. I've ran my master of many styles so far up to level 7 with pleasing results. Like everyone says my main downfall is once enemies wise up or a metagaming GM.

Grand Lodge

Lord_Malkov wrote:

There are lots of funky builds.

Flowing monk with
Imp trip ,greater trip ,vicious stomp, combat reflexes, medusas wrath

Full attack vs three adjacent opponents
Trip one
A successful trip grants you an aoo from greater trip
Your aoo makes the target flat footed
You get another aoo when they fall from vicious stomp
Trip another .. 2 more aoos
Trip a third ... 2 more aoos
Get 2 free attacks from medusas wrath against a flat footed target (aka anything you hit with an aoo)

1round 3 trips, 8 attacks (more if hasted or if you spend a ki)
And they provoke again for standing up.

Great idea but what about monsters larger than you or immune to trip? Almost every creature has a threat range and can make and are susceptible to AoO. I've looked into building a trip master before and it seems great but while running alot of society missions i see that they might not be as effective as i would hope.

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