hazardousindex's page

Really it's just a game at heart. Sounds like your players are against it and honestly any good house rule is made as a joint effort between everyone making the game.

Right you are. I have decided to simply put it to a player vote next game. Whatever they decide is what I'll use.

Good thing it's an Emanation effect and can be pushed back with a good tower shield.

Wait, what? I'm not sure what you mean here. I assume you mean the *caster* can be pushed back, right? I wasn't aware shields could push back any magical effects.

So it sounds like you have a very differnet definition in your head of what supernatural means, compared to the game designers.

Yes, actually, that's exactly right. I was letting my own interpretation of the fantasy world inform the rules I was making. I'm not sure if that's good or bad GMing, actually. One of my players suggested we rename the spell "Aura of Normalcy." That, for some reason, seems better to me.

I think the only reason I was probing at your players' tactics is I still have a vague suspicion that you are doing something wrong with AMF - I have no basis for that other than in my experience AMF hurts the PCs much more than it helps them

To everyone suggesting I turn this tactic around on my players: again, I only use published material. I haven't had a monster in the AP with this spell or ability yet. If Paizo writers put it there, I will happily use it. As for my players' tactics...well...they are really, really good. My players have been playing for well over a decade at this point (various incarnations of "the most popular tabletop blah blah") and they are much, much better at tactical war-games than I am. They rarely make mistakes in combat, if ever, and tend to keep their bases covered.

But I suppose disparity between Player vs GM war-game skill is a topic for another thread.

Thanks for the input, everyone. I don't want this to become an in-depth analysis of my players' tactics, so I'm going to let that drop.

It seems under the house rule, Su and Ex would basically become identical. I always considered the vulnerability to anti-magic the defining difference between these types of abilities so I would advise against the ruling

To me, an extraordinary ability means a character or monster is inherently good at the thing in question. They just do it because it's a part of their being or a part of intense training. A barbarian is just really tough. Rogues have trained to know how to sneak attack you.

Supernatural abilities, however, have always been more about the "science" of the monster. Dragons breathe fire for biological reasons in my game, not magical. Ghosts are not magical beings, but rather a unique life form completely separate from normal creatures. Vampires energy drain you because they are leeching from your soul due to their curse. To me, none of these things are "magic." And taking away the supernatural abilities of these things effectively makes them a big lizard, a puff of mist, and a smelly old dude in a tacky cape- respectively.

The name itself kind of gives my definition away: Super natural. These are the "natural" abilities possessed by these creatures. They are fully explainable within the world of Pathfinder, but seem pretty super to us normal people.

That's how I arrive at my "antifantasy field" conclusion. Perhaps its name is a tad dramatic, but it really does rob monsters of their fantasy flavor if used against them. It just seems out of place. There is nothing else like it. Why don't we have an "Antiskill/training Field" to nullify extraordinary abilities? Because that would be silly.

But if you want to drive a point home, why don't you reverse he situation... Use the same tactic on them.

I only run published adventure paths, so I don't tweak or change the encounters to exploit party weaknesses unless the text explicitly states I should do this. I find it makes the game be less "me versus them" and more "them versus the system" when I don't do original stuff. This makes for a better game, in my opinion, but means we tend to place more emphasis on the rules than casual homebrew players. This, in turn, leads to my current situation.

It's not quite as extreme as your "antifantasy" field - dragons don't collapse and suffocate under their own weight when subjected to it

Point taken. They do, however, become little more than large, flying lizards. Something about that just irks me personally, I suppose.

Also, if you make your change, be prepared to have some enterprising player make a witch to throw hexes out of their antimagic. Hexes are supernatural.

Also a valid point. I don't have anyone quite so Munchkin in my group, thankfully. The current player I have is a 12th level Arcane school Wizard. His current go-to tactic is to buff the party with powerful spells, fling his best combat spell at the start of combat, and then go antimagic and let his party clean the enemies up. The party uses teamwork to protect him, and he rolled very high stats (I wish they would use point buy, I really do) so he has a lot of hit points- more than enough to survive a few full attacks from powerful monsters (not that they ever get a few with the other PCs wailing on them).

Honestly, these are really just solid tactics on their part, and I don't necessarily think they should be punished for them. But if this becomes the key to winning every challenging fight in the published adventure path, then to me it speaks to a problem with the spell itself rather than a problem with the players. I feel that limiting antimagic to only spells and spell-like abilities is a good way to make the spell niche and useful, but keep it from being a "no-brainer" style spell pick.

I just cannot, in my mind, reconcile the fact that Antimagic Field cancels out all Supernatural abilities. I want to houserule that it only affects spells and spell-like abilities, but I am encountering a lot of opposition from my players on this. My reasons are twofold:

1) Flavor: Antimagic Field canceling Supernaturals doesn't fit the "flavor" of many Pathfinder monsters. It blocking a dragon's breath is a major example of this. Another is the disappearance of incorporeal undead, and another is the negation of monster damage reduction. Finally, channel energy is perhaps my biggest flavor problem, as I always took that healing/harm to represent a deity's intervention, and the gods' power is so much more than simple "magic." As written, this spell should be called "Antifantasy Field," as it strips most iconic fantasy characters and monsters of not only magic, but also all of their unique abilities that make them fun, interesting, or challenging to encounter.

2) Power: The spell is only a 6th level spell and, as written, I believe it is too powerful. Nullifying spells and spell-like abilities is powerful enough on its own to warrant a 6th level spell, even considering that the character who cast the spell can no longer cast. (Though they could buff the party considerably beforehand.) Allowing supernaturals nullifies too many abilities in addition to spells and spellcasting. It turns the spell into a must-have, which, to me, means there is a balance issue.

My players believe (almost to a fault) that the rules of Pathfinder are fair and balanced at all times. They don't like it when I houserule powerful spells and abilities. Ordinarily, I would acquiesce to the rules as written, but my gut is telling me not to on this one. It doesn't seem balanced, and it doesn't seem like it preserves the flavor of the game. Not to mention that where there's smoke, there's fire, and a lot of people on these boards seem to dislike/feel uncomfortable about this spell.

So what do you guys think? Is it balanced as-is? Is my change an acceptable house rule, or is there something else I should consider?

If you want something similar I would go with a chevalier since they tend toward chaotic good.

Great idea. Done. I didn't think about the fact that a paladin would rip a Hellknight apart!

I don't see any reason that the Hell Knight couldn't be LN, though. In both scenarios, he's upholding the established law and order, and in neither scenario is he really doing anything inherently evil (at least by necessity).

My player has decided to go with Lawful Evil because he thinks it will be more fun than Lawful Neutral. He told me that he is so ruthless, he's basically willing to do whatever it takes within the confines of the law to establish order. He treats his allies and superiors with respect and decorum, however. (So the other players can have fun, too.)

I decided the framework of the story is that an ex-Hellknight of the Order of the Gate has been made a lesser baron on the edge of the Cheliax-Andoren border. This baron is old and infirm now, and is slowly losing his holdings to a semi-secret resistance group that has infiltrated basically all of his government and are subverting it. My friend's Hellknight, as an Order of the Scourge member, has been sent in to reestablish order whatever the cost.

Now I'm trying to figure out a way to work a good dragon into the equation without it "stealing the show" so to speak, as I still want the Chevalier to be the final encounter. I just think it would be a cool encounter.

My friend is also asking me if he should be allied to a Chelaxian House, and I don't know anything about the houses in Cheliax (apart from Thrune).

I'm loving these comments so far, though! Keep them coming!

Do you think the player would prefer a combat-heavy game or one with a mix of talking and combat?

Knowing him, he will want a mix.

I like the location of the Cheliax-Andoren border. I also really like the "Home Alone" siege-style game idea. We've never done anything like that and I think it sounds much cooler than delving a dungeon. A lillend bard and snotty paladin will make great villains!

I'm thinking right now of a two-part adventure. The first part will be him showing up to an evil ruler's rightful kingdom where the lillend is stirring up rebellion. He'll have to use a combo of social intrigue and combat brutality to find and thwart the members of this resistance. The second part is going to be an all-out attack by the allies of this resistance on the castle, where he'll have to defend something. I love the idea of a final one-on-one clash between him and the paladin (maybe with his arcanists simply buffing him) and I know he will, too.

This all sounds great so far! Any ideas for cool individual encounters, social or otherwise? Maybe ones where his Hellknight powers can shine? Also, I really want to work a dragon into this thing somewhere, but I'm rather unsure how/where to do so.

Here's the deal: It's one of my very good friends' birthday in two weeks, and he wants me to run him a Pathfinder game as a gift.

We decided he's going to be a Level 5 Fighter/Level 4 Human Hellknight. Three other players are in, and they are all going to be Level 7 Halfling Wizard slaves of the Hellknight. The idea is that they'll all be specialized in a different magic school, and they have agreed to be lower level so our friend can be more powerful (which he loves).

The game is going to be a one-shot game session anywhere from 8-16 hours.

Sooo....what are you guys' ideas for the adventure? Who should the primary "villain" be? (My friend says he would love to perhaps battle atypical good-aligned monsters.) Where should it be set and what should I have them do?

If you can use GIMP to do basic scaling and alterations you should manage to do some copy - paste. Just open a new project with size compared to all the maps, copy the maps, paste them in the right order to the new map, move them careful for the borders to match (more or less) and save.

I should have said I know how to use the clone tool and the resize option in GIMP, and that's about it. I can never seem to select or move anything in that program (I've not even found a "hand" tool!) What little I usually can accomplish ends up in a tangle of messy layers. So I tried it, and failed.

Powerpoint, however, worked like a charm. The image is a bit blurry, but it will serve.

So I'm running a (fantastic) Kingmaker game using Fantasy Grounds 2, but having multiple hex maps for each of the areas the PCs are exploring is very cumbersome. I have to have several map windows open at a time, and they clutter up the screen.

I would *LOVE* to have a single jpg image of each of the three regions combined (Greenbelt, Glenebon Uplands, and Hooktongue Slough). The problem is that I can't find anything like that anywhere.

So how could I combine the maps myself? I know nothing about image editing software apart from using GIMP to do basic scaling and alterations.

It sounds like your PCs are a lot like mine. They love to min/max, although they are still great roleplayers and good players in general.

As for hex exploration, allowing players to rest all the time greatly unbalances the game in favor of spellcasters and PCs with powerful daily abilities. Right from the start, I informed my players that allowing them to rest constantly would make the AP a lot easier. They agreed that they didn't want it to be easy, so we decided that they could only have a "full rest" if they spent 24 hours camping and recuperating in a hex, in which case they would have about a 50/50 chance of a random encounter that day. Given how tough some of the random encounters in the AP are (3 trolls at 2nd level, anyone?) they quickly learned that resting a lot in the wilderness was not safe. Also, they could achieve a full rest by staying in one of their towns. This added a nice "home base" feel to the PCs' kingdom, and also always gave them a reason to return home.

As for individual encounters, all the usual DM tricks like templates, sizing monsters up, and additional mobs work well enough for most encounters in Kingmaker. Although, judging from your comments about Vordakai, the Stag Lord, and others...it doesn't sound like you have that much trouble challenging them. Try not to get too frustrated as they gain power and move into high levels. High level players need to feel powerful. Maybe those 12 low-level barbarians are there to get stomped and make your players feel like they're awesome. Those encounters can be just as important and memorable as the raging barbarian who sundered all their magic swords and nearly killed them.

I am thinking of running the Witchfire Trilogy in Pathfinder, and I was wondering what region of Golarion would be the best fit for it? It features a lot of steampunk elements like firearms (it was Iron Kingdoms) and I believe it culminates in a massive battle between armies sporting advanced technologies. Anything like that fit easily? Anyone ever done this before?

hazardousindex wrote:

I compiled all of the "Flora" and "Fauna" entries at the beginning and end of Serpent's Skull adventures, and printed these out. I then wrote a cover page and foreword (written by a kooky NPC Pathfinder explorer), and bound it all together into a little pocket-tome handout for the players. I intend to have them find this "Field Guide to the Flora and Fauna of the Mwangi Jungle" as an item in one of the shipwrecks, a minor magic book that resists water and the elements, and grants a +2 bonus on Knowledge (Nature) checks about Mwangi jungles.

Nice. I like this idea a lot. Any chance the pdf is available somewhere?

Bobby

I actually didn't create a pdf file of my own. I just printed the flora and fauna pages from each adventure, then I typed a cover and foreword in Word, and added a parchment-like background. Hole-punched and bound the pages together with twine, then scrunched it around a bit for that "used" look. It turned out pretty good.

Also what sort of stuff (loot wise) have people put in the random ships?

I compiled all of the "Flora" and "Fauna" entries at the beginning and end of Serpent's Skull adventures, and printed these out. I then wrote a cover page and foreword (written by a kooky NPC Pathfinder explorer), and bound it all together into a little pocket-tome handout for the players. I intend to have them find this "Field Guide to the Flora and Fauna of the Mwangi Jungle" as an item in one of the shipwrecks, a minor magic book that resists water and the elements, and grants a +2 bonus on Knowledge (Nature) checks about Mwangi jungles.

I'm thinking of running this for 3 players, as well. Honestly, I think if you simply do not convert the AP from 3.5 to Pathfinder, but allow your players to make full Pathfinder characters, the challenge will probably be just fine. Pathfinder characters are about 50% more powerful than their 3.5 counterparts, so 3 players will work.

Also, why not let them roll stats? It makes for more powerful characters, and stops the generic "18 and 10s" situation you have above.

Every complaint/attack fired wildly at Paizo in this thread should have instead been directed towards one person only: your GM.

It is your GM's job to make sure you have fun in a D&D game, not the creators of the material your GM uses. Your GM is not a slave to the stat blocks Paizo publishes, and if he/she is then they should not be, plain and simple.

Go to your GM and whine that you can't handle the ability damage, and hopefully they'll make the game more enjoyable for you.

This is a very interesting plot line you have going here. But, it seems to me that you have changed *so much* that you might want to trash the Stolen Lands module and continue on the homebrew path you've created.

I had a similar problem going on during my D&D games. I wanted an immersive, roleplay-heavy experience while my players spent much of their time on smartphones and cracking jokes. The way I solved the problem was to split my players into two groups. I play a lighthearted tabletop game with my "silly" group on a monthly basis. With the serious players, I moved the game to an online format (using Fantasy Grounds) that we play weekly.

I find it's a lot easier and more roleplay conducive to play with an online game table. That way, if a player gets bored he or she can distract themselves without distracting everyone else. Out of character banter can still be accomplished with the /ooc chat feature in FG, but it seems appropriately removed from the in-game action.

If I had to make one more suggestion from my experience, I'd say if you go the online route don't ever have more than four players. Any more than four and the action and roleplay slows to a crawl.

hazardousindex wrote:

I would buy Pathfinder products if they were available on Fantasy Grounds II. So would others. I say bring it on. It's just good business. ;)

Are there any D&D (3.5E or 4E) products available on Fantasy Grounds II?

Yes. The program comes with a 3.5 ruleset and a pretty comprehensive 4E ruleset built in. Plus, there is a 3rd party 4E parser that you can use to scan in information from just about any 4E book. But, my players don't like 4E. They like Pathfinder. C'est la vie.

I would buy Pathfinder products if they were available on Fantasy Grounds II. So would others. I say bring it on. It's just good business. ;)

It's a very cool idea. I might do something like this. But let's also not forget possible negative repercussions for absorbing fragments of power that essentially come from three very dark and evil gods. I may have good-aligned characters who accept these dark blessings haunted by nightmares, the feeling of dark eyes upon them, and similar paranoia. Or it might be cool to have small physical changes overcome them, like animals becoming restless around them, or their shadows occasionally moving on their own. Something weird to keep the players guessing. These effects could last only as long as they remain interesting. Even neutral characters could experience this. Alternatively, for a more game-mechanics type of twist, accepting these dark blessings could give that character a future -2 on all saves when being targeted by a devout worshiper or cleric of whichever Ebon Triad god's blessing that character received. This could affect PCs regardless of alignment. After all, they sort of stole this divine power! Paladins and other followers of good gods should be discouraged from accepting these blessings, with even stricter penalties for doing so (loss of a spell slot or power until atonement, for example). Of course, these characters could be rewarded by their own deities with minor boons for denying these blessings, as well.

If the ultimate goal is to reward your players, though, you might shy away from actual game-effecting punishment. But I always like adding more drama and danger when dealing with dark gods. This idea is a very cool, one though. It reminds me of the "dark fruit" PCs could partake of in "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil." As I recall, if they ate it they received a permanent +1 to any one stat as Tharizdun's dark blessing.....but terrible misfortune of some sort also befell them. Great stuff! :)

The whole Manzorian is Tenser idea, but the PCs don't find out until later, is a great one. It will work even more perfectly with my current AoW group since they had characters waaaaayyyy back in 2nd edition who played a certain little module called "Return of the Eight" and actually were responsible for bringing Tenser back! I love how the twisting story of D&D allows for such continuity. No other game *does* that. It's awesome.

But, I was wondering: If Tenser is Manzorian, then are any of the other NPCs representative of Greyhawk famous people from ages past? I was especially wondering about Cymria and Eligos?

This is an older thread, but now I'm having a similar problem. I run my Age of Worms campaign online via Fantasy Grounds (an online tabletop program) but my pdfs and magazine supplements don't contain any of the poster-size maps! I was able to find the Diamond Lake map in the Age of Worms Overload, but so far Blackwall Keep and others are nowhere to be found. Has anyone ever successfully located these maps? Fantasy Grounds allows for importing jpegs, bitmaps, pdf images and various other file types, but there was no way I could use the Google Sketch map provided in this thread. Any help on where to find these elusive maps in a better format would be much appreciated. My PCs still have maybe a month or so before they reach the keep!

Balon Greybeard: NG Male Dwarf Druid/Mage/Greenstar Adept

Wanda the Goat: Balon's familiar/animal companion (I allowed him to mix the two since there are only three players. Her familiar power is that she talks, so she's basically a party member.)

Stormy: CN Tiefling Fighter

Shy Draven: CG Human Sorceress

PC: Wanda the Goat (Balon Greybeard the Dwarf Druid's animal companion)
Adventure: The Sea Wyvern's Wake
Location of Death: The Ruins of Tamoachan
Catalyst: The mummy rot trap in the sarcophagus

Description: Poor Wanda the goat was a pretty good animal companion (used pony stats after she sized up) in chain barding with her +1 Horn Caps. She single-handedly defeated the Bullywug Cleric in Lavinia's room in the previous adventure. But, she failed her save against mummy rot in Tamoachan, and the poor druid Balon had to put her down so she wouldn't suffer. "Now just drink this, Wanda," Balon said, holding back the sobs. "It's gonna make you go to sleep and then you'll feel all better. I promise." So sad, poor Wanda.

I agree that the Ravens weren't super-fleshed-out in the sidebar, but that's better since it allows the DM to get creative on his or her own. In my game, I first introduced them, and then had them very busy with Lavinia's tasks and I made it clear they were her "favorite" adventuring group. After the Bullywug Gambit, I showed that Lavinia thought the PCs much more capable and dependable then the Ravens. As a result, the Ravens mostly sulked around her estate. Liamae was also a lot more friendly after the PCs saved her life. I really used The Sea Wyvern's Wake to flesh out the Ravens a lot. Since they were chosen to be Lavinia's guards and escorts, they gained a lot of confidence back. Every time the ships went in to port, the Ravens interacted a lot with the party. Below is generally how I chose to roleplay each Raven.

Tolin Kientai- I always played Tolin a headstrong, by-the-books soldier with a strong sense of personal honor. Tolin makes a good leader for the Ravens, but he tends to be very competitive with the PCs, especially another warrior-type. He often challenges PCs to drinking contests, arm-wrestling matches, or anything else he can test himself against them with. Depending on how he is treated, Tolin's competitive spirit can blossom into a good-natured friendship with the PCs, or a bitter rivalry.

Liamae Teslikaria- I played her very capricious and even a little hostile with the PCs at first. But after her rust-monster humiliation (kudos to the person who thought that up) she warms up a lot more to the PCs. During the Sea Wyvern's Wake, I had her strike up a bit of an affair with another PC, sending messages and visiting between ships. But, since she is chaotic by nature, eventually I had her lose interest. I believe in the later modules she has an alignment shift to good, and even becomes a favored soul. (Does anyone know who she worships?) So I would definitely play up her gradual embracing of holy power, maybe a PC cleric could "convert" her?

Zan Oldavian- I had the most fun with Zan. I played him as a very sly, quiet opportunist who is kind of the glue that holds the Ravens together. If it weren't for Zan's dungeoneering skills and great intelligence, the Ravens would have met doom long ago. He had numerous contacts in Sasserine, and seemed to always know what was going on. He was confident and cool at all times. I have three female players (and characters), so I made Zan more charismatic than he originally was, although he never favored "emotional hangups" and so mainly just appeared charming to them for fun. (Dancing extremely well with them and flirting with them in taverns, only to disappear for the night and act as if nothing happened the next day.) I made Zan help the party in combat on a few occasions, like in Tamoachan (they didn't have a rogue) and so they grew really close to him. I'm using all this to eventually hit them with a bombshell when I have Zan die of his wounds and disease in Scuttlecove.

Kaskus Kiel- I played Kaskus as a slightly odd and quiet hermit with a great affinity for nature (duh) and a loyal friendship to Tolin. I had him get very sulky and moody after his animal companion died. I didn't really include him much more in the game until they reached the Isle of Dread. There, I had Kaskus and the PCs go on a side-quest to find him a new animal companion, which ended up being a unique Deinonychus. I also had Kaskus tell the PCs of how he was ostracized from his clan due to his non-worship of Moradin.

That's how I fleshed them out in my game. Hopefully, that gives you some ideas. I'm wondering, though, in the Scuttlecove issue it explains what happens to Zan and Liamae, but it never says anything about Tolin and Kaskus? I haven't read past the Scuttlecove issue, are their fates beyond this? Was the sidebar left out? Anyone know?