fatchuck's page

Thank you for your respective help, it helped a lot in tracking down all of Pathfinder's level 12+ content.

These are the known modules/scenarios for level 12+ play in Pathfinder in order of their lowest beginning level, and their levels were confirmed off of Paizo's site:

Module. The Emerald Spire Superdungeon (1-13+) - Floors 14,15,16: Levels 10-13
Special. Race for the Runecarved Key (1-12+) - Minimum 4 table Special.
Special. Siege of the Diamond City (1-15+) - Minimum 5 table Special.
Module. The Ruby Phoenix Tournament (11-12).
Module. The Demon Within (11-13).
Module. Feast of Dust (11-14).
Module. Eyes of the Ten (12-13) - 4 parts, scenarios 46, 54, 2-05, 2-22. Must be at exactly 33xp to begin this module at level 12.0.
Scenario. All for Immortality (12-13, 14-15) - 3 parts, scenarios 7-20, 7-26, 7-29.
Scenario. Unleashing the Untouchable (12-13, 14-15). 1 part, scenario 8-25.
Module. Wardens of the Reborn Forge (12-15, 3 parts). Must be at exactly 33-35.5 XP to begin this module.
Module. Academy of Secrets (13-14).
Module. Tomb of the Iron Medusa (14-15).
Module. Blood of Dragonscar (15+).
Module. The Moonscar (16-17).
Module. The Witchwar Legacy (17-18).

If you want to track Paizo's ongoing modules/scenarios going forward in chronological order (and by level), this wiki will allow you to do so:
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Modules

Also, as Imhrail noted, there are a lot of Pathfinder Adventure Paths where level 10+ play kicks in around part 4 of these normal 6-part paths. They can all be tracked here, always in chronological order:

http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Adventure_Path

Hopefully this will allow anyone with a Seeker-level PC to figure out where they want to go after level 11 concludes.

First, if there's a permanent thread for Level 12+ PFS Seeker play, I'll be glad to delete this post and contribute there.

That said, I've dug around the web and have found these modules/campaign arcs for PFS play at levels 12+:

1. Eyes of the Ten (Levels 12-13) - Module - Must be at exactly level 12.0 with 33xp. Grants 5xp upon successful completion of all 4 parts.
2. All for Immortality (12-13, 14-15) - Campaign Arc. Grants unknown XP.
3. Academy of Secrets (12-14) - Module. Grants unknown XP.
4. Tomb of the Iron Medusa (13-15) - Module. Grants unknown XP.
5. The Moonscar (15-17) - Module. Grants unknown XP.
6. The Witchwar Legacy (16-18) - Module. Grants unknown XP.
7. Race for the Runecarved Key (Levels 1-19) - Minimum 4 table Special event. Grants unknown XP.

Are there other arcs (modules or campaigns) that are missing from this list? Am asking so that anyone with a sufficient level PC may figure out how to proceed once at level 12.

Thanks,
Chuck

Mojorat wrote:

The problem is, haunted tells you what level you can add, the spell to your list of spells known. But i doesnt tell you the spell slot used. The assumption (correctly) is that its a 5th level spell. However, Oracle curse doesnt say 'you can add X as X level spell'

What this means in terms of the Haunted Gnome oracle is that, All that happens is you add The spells to your list of spells known before you can cast them. Because at no point does the Haunted curse tell you you get telikenis as a 5th level spell. This then makes it impossible to for you to use your favoured class bonus to cast it earlier.

Its different from some of the other curses, but nothing can be done.

^ This.

Adding the spells to your list before you're able to cast them seems like the most elegant solution.

And this is why Paizo needs to cough up a solution on Favored Class Bonuses dealing with spells (not just the Oracle Haunted curse).

"Adding the spells to your list before you're able to cast them seems like the most elegant solution" with the singular point that Paizo didn't say "Add X spell to your spell list," they said "Add X to your list of spells known."

Because they wrote it that way, it means two things. 1, you don't have expend a Known Spell slot at level-up to use them like you normally do for something like Dispel Magic, and 2, you know it when you qualify for it by taking the Favored Class Bonus 10 times in 10 levels, making your Haunted curse equivalent to level 15, and thus using a level 5 slot for Reverse Gravity.

I agree that your solution is elegant for a house rule, but a lot of problems persist by singling out the Haunted Oracle curse for this nerf. First, if you're running the game in your home, just remember to give a head's up to all players who use the various Oracle +1/2 Favored Class Bonuses that they do not apply. Second, for the purposes of official Pathfinder Society play where house rules aren't used, if this Favored Class Bonus isn't recognized, then no +1/2 Favored Class Bonuses should be recognized. Picking & choosing which ones are OK and which aren't is Chaotic Evil if a given player has spend 6-12 months using a +1/2 FCB and wants to use it at Gen Con, Paizo Con, or a local con.

I guess the big issue here isn't that we disagree (imagine that, on an RPG rules board!) or that things can be Rule 0'd, but when you take a character with the +1/2 FCB for 8-12 levels and are unsure of whether you can use it or not in organized play. That's why, whether your argument prevails or mine does, I want Paizo to come out and errata it so that players can plan accordingly.

There's also an FAQ about where a spell comes from. If it is on the wizard spell list, it is a wizard spell. Then you go to cleric and Druid, then other classes. So in this case, for an oracle, it would be a 7th level spell that they would be able to cast at level 14 assuming they used 2 favored class bonuses to advance their curse.

As a side note, there was a heated thread that dealt with the Aasimar's +1/2 level Favored Class Bonus here:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qc3v?Does-Elf-or-Aasimar-favored-class-Oracle

And it didn't deal with spells known at all. Yes, a lot of people think it's overpowered, but for the sake of Official Pathfinder Society play, it's legal.

BTW, where is the post for clarification on the Gnome Oracle's Haunted curse on the FAQ? Asking so that I can follow it.

In the meantime, I'm going to test my hypothesis that Haunted Oracles can cast Reverse Gravity as a 5th level spell at level 10 this week at a local con in Pathfinder Society. We'll see what the reaction is. :-)

I'd be glad to hit FAQ on a post and get an answer.

Wasting's benefits aren't specific spells added to your spells known. Spells have particular levels. If your class cannot normally cast that spell but you gain access to it, it is for you a spell of the same level it is for the class whose list it came from. My life oracle technically has mass cure critical wounds on her list of spells known. That doesn't mean she can cast it now because she only has 2nd level spell slots at level 5.

Replies in context...

"I'd be glad to hit FAQ on a post and get an answer."

That would be awesome, since every Oracle Curse grants escalating benefits that are subject to the Gnome/Tengu +1/2 level alternative favored class option.

"Wasting's benefits aren't specific spells added to your spells known. Spells have particular levels."

No argument, agreed. Unfortunately, Paizo didn't list the actual spell slots these 4 spells (for Haunted) hit, and it would have helped a lot if they did. FYI, if you check out the various curses at http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses, you'll see that the Blackened, Haunted, and Wolfscarred Face all have unslotted, bonus spells known, so a ruling on Haunted would also apply to those since they share the same mechanic.

"If your class cannot normally cast that spell but you gain access to it, it is for you a spell of the same level it is for the class whose list it came from."

And even if I completely agree with you, there'd still be conflict because Reverse Gravity is a Druid 8, Sorcerer/Wizard 7 spell. Do Haunted Oracles get it at level 14 or 16, when they hit level 7 or 8 spell slots known? For a home game, you can house rule it, but what if you're playing a PF Society game at Gen Con or Paizo Con? It would be nice to know which specific spell slots the Curse spells use so that you're not using an illegal character in organized play.

Additionally, to add to the confusion, you have classes like the Summoner which get some marquee arcane spells 2-3 levels before the Wizard/Sorcerer do. I'm not saying that applies across the board, but just noting the Paizo-written precedent for some classes to get spells way before the canonical spell classes.

You can be, and are, wrong without an FAQ, you just won't admit it without that.

Unfortunately, the gnome favored class bonus doesn't do anything for a haunted oracle because your curse never change. If he was blackened or wasting it might be a nice mechanical benefit worth taking.

There is certainly an FAQ on gaining spells not from your class spell list, but I'm not going to bother finding it because I'm sure you are the only person who thinks a level 10 oracle who only has 5th level spell slots should be able to cast a level 7 wizard spell, just because they traded away some combination of 10 HP and skill points.

OK, let's break this down:

You personally cited Wasting as a benefit. Let's look at its benefits:
At 5th level, you are immune to the sickened condition (but not nauseated).
At 10th level, you gain immunity to disease.
At 15th level, you are immune to the nauseated condition.

So, a Gnome Wasting Oracle with the +1/2 favored class option gets immunity to nausea at level 10, despite the fact that Wasting never changes (just like Haunted). Wasting is a flat curse from levels 1-20 which grant "a –4 penalty on Charisma-based skill checks, except for Intimidate. You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves made against disease."

Wasting grants scaling bonuses exactly like Haunted does, albeit different ones.

As for gaining spells not on your spell list, I didn't write the Haunted bonus effects, Paizo did, and I don't think they could have been more explicit:
At 5th level, add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known.
At 10th level, add telekinesis to your list of spells known.
At 15th level, add reverse gravity to your list of spells known.

Just because someone may want to nerf or house rule a given curse's benefits doesn't mean Paizo does.

Fat chuck, that is extremely incorrect information. I'm so glad you resurrected the thread to tell us.

OK, I'll be glad to be wrong if someone, anyone, will document it using something besides an opinion. Please link to the official errata or a Paizo employee's ruling since the +1/2 level Haunted bonus applies not only to Gnome Oracles, but also Tengu Oracles. Link for documentation: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle

The Gnome favored class option for Oracle states:

Oracle: Treat the gnome’s level as +1/2 higher for the purpose of determining the effects of the oracle’s curse ability.

and for the Haunted curse:

Haunted: Malevolent spirits follow you wherever you go, causing minor mishaps and strange occurrences (such as unexpected breezes, small objects moving on their own, and faint noises). Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction. Add mage hand and ghost sound to your list of spells known. At 5th level, add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known. At 10th level, add telekinesis to your list of spells known. At 15th level, add reverse gravity to your list of spells known.

My question is does this combination allow you to cast levitate and minor image at 4th level, telekinesis at 7th level and reverse gravity at 10th?

If yes would I just cast Reverse Gravity as a 10th level caster?

What spell level would it be?

If this is not the case is it just pointless to take the alternate favored class option as a gnome for the Haunted curse?

-Venom

Sorry to necromance this 2010 thread, but there aren't any others (edit: on Paizo) that I could find that dealt more recently with this question. To answer your question, you would cast Levitate and Minor Image from 2nd level spell slots at Oracle level 4, Telekinesis from a 3rd level spell slot at Oracle level 7, and Reverse Gravity from a 5th level spell slot at Oracle level 10 - all based on getting the Gnome's +1/2 alternative favored class option for Haunted Oracles.

If you need backup for this position, see the following for the Haunted Curse:
At 5th level, add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known.
At 10th level, add telekinesis to your list of spells known.
At 15th level, add reverse gravity to your list of spells known.

These spells aren't being added to your potential spell list for you to choose from - they're automatically being added to your spells known, exactly like the cure (or inflict, player's choice at character creation) spells that all Oracles automatically know (at each even level).

Given that the Gnome Oracle Favored Class bonus states "Treat the gnome’s level as +1/2 higher for the purpose of determining the effects of the oracle’s curse ability," then yes, for these 4 specific spells, you get them when your Oracle qualifies, and use the highest existing spell slot to cast them when you first qualify to do so.

The fact that Reverse Gravity is a Druid 8 or Sorcerer/Wizard 7 spell is nice, but you're not a Druid or a Sorcerer/Wizard, you're a haunted Gnome Oracle with a specific exemption to these four spells' normal levels. Acting like Paizo designers didn't mean this is obtuse when they clearly laid out the benefits for this alternative class feature.

Cool, thanks for both of your advice, it helped. I'll keep it simple instead of going full-blown simulationist with long lines, bureaucratic turf wars, and permit fees.

In creating a new adventure world, should I incorporate government bureaucracies into it, or just handwave the PC interactions with their local government by having them interact with 2-3 main NPCs?

The reason for asking this is because of this article:

http://www.roleplayingtips.com/articles/how_to_create_a_bureaucracy.php

I can see its value, but have a bad gut feeling about forcing the PCs to heavily interact with lots of agencies and bureaucrats when they're in town. Thoughts?

Ah, thank you very much for all the help. No wonder I couldn't find it in my books.

Quick Q - where is the size increase table for Pathfinder? I'm referring to something like this, which lists the ability score bonuses as a creature goes up or down in size:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases

I have both the Core Rulebook and the Advanced Player's Guide, but can't find this chart.

Thank you.