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![]() First, a Ninja can take the ninja trick Advanced Talents, which opens up any one Advanced Rogue Talent. Yes, the Ninja can only take Rogue Talent and Advanced Talents once each, but it still gives them versatility and a much larger list compared to a Rogue. Second, the rogue has one of the least useful 20th level abilities in the game, then the 20th level ability, the capstone, can be used by 10th level assassins, or a Ninja that is 10+ levels and decided to take one Ninja Trick. Third, a Ninja PC will occasionally fight enemies with blindsense/sight, tremor sense, see invis, true seeing, or invisibility purge, Invisible Blade is still an 8th level spell the Ninja can get at 10th level, and one of the nicest spells at that. How many rogues wish they could get hit with greater invis by the wizard or sorcerer of the group? How many would like to be able to do it to themselves, without a magic device and by spending a swift action and 1 point in a pool of, usually, a few. Oh, and the first use is on the house. If the Rogue had more options to deal sneak attack, via things like "ranged flanking" or counting any square adjacent to a target as a flanking square, the rogue would have a more reliable way to deal sneak attack. As it is, the Ninja now has the most reliable means to deal out sneak attack. It comes down to this: Rogues are not the prime sneak attackers anymore. They can only deal out sneak attacks to flanked or flatfooted targets, same as the ninja, but they have to feint or win initiative (or use Shatter Defenses) to reliably make a target flatfooted. Which means a move action (and two feats at least) or a 1/combat option, respectively. The Ninja has the same options as well as the option to turn his or her self invisible and go to town. If that is spoiled with invis purge... then all the other options are still there. ![]()
![]() That was sorta my bad. I said 14 because I figured every ninja is going to take Invisible Blade at 10th, then forgot about 12th. I just picked one of the even levels after 10th, really. But see, the Ninja could take it at 10th. Even though it's the same as the Rogue's 20th level ability... the Rogue definitely needs a boost. ![]()
![]() The rogue has no ability at 6th level, the ninja has an iconic ability, but it gives it just another dash of added spice. The rogue shouldn't be completely outclassed. While the Ninja would have the vanish trick and invisible blade to do a lot of sneak attacking, it seems that the Rogue should focus on the sneak attack in a different light, for example adding two effects, instead of only one. The Ninja has an eighth level spell at 10th level. Quickened Greater Invisibility. It's pretty much instantly become the hallmark. And yes, invis purge, glitter dust, seeing spells can get through it, but not everyone has all these options. And a rogue has no way to force mages and such to effectively counter their class invisibility. I like the ninja class, it's fun. But it still needs a bit of tweaking. Not nearly so much "nerfing" as the Rogue class needs a boost. Even the 20th level abilities are drastically different. "You cannot be detected by any means by using 2 ki points" against "Your target of a sneak attack can make an embarrassingly easy save for 20th level. And... isn't that you know... like an ability the Ninja can get at 14th level? Assassinate? ![]()
![]() Vanishing Trick isn't really the problem. Invisible Blade is, and the light steps or whatever that Ninja get, the Rogue has no analogue to. First, IB should be like Vanishing Trick, except the Ninja has the option to spend a ki point to remain invisible in that round, even if they attack, which also shaves 1 minute off the duration. Second rogues should get a perk at 6th level, such as an ability that allows the rogue to use two sneak attack talents per sneak attack. So now the Rogue has the option to do a bleeding offensive defense sneak attack. Then the Ninja still has invisibility, but has to keep paying to use it as greater invisibility, which necessitates resource management. Second, the Rogue gets a perk that the Ninja can't get, which isn't overpowering, but can be useful. ![]()
![]() With all the talk of class combining feats (Ranger/Rogue) what about ones with the new classes? Monk/Inquisitor, Witch/Druid, Summoner...bard? Okay, not perfect... Extra feats for the new classes. Especially Extra Hexes. Extra Judgement. I'd love to see a feat that lets a Witch use a hex through their familiar or through spectral hand, and maybe a feat to send the hand out as a ranged touch attack. Something like improved weapon finesse to add dex to damage with light melee weapons instead of strength. |