So, is it basically a more damaging Mancatcher? I mean, a beartrap on a pole, if it sticks, would be stuck there, so then it's just a grapple (or disarm) regarding the the guy trapped and the guy with the pole, right? That's basically the mancatcher, except it would do more damage initially.
So you could do it as an exotic weapon, but one thing worth considering would be to use it more disposably. A 10ft pole with a bear trap on the end designed to "break off" when it grabs an enemy. That way you would be stuck in a grapple of some sort, being the guy trying to hold onto the pole.
Since beartraps are designed to be chained to the ground, you could add a longer chain and a large weight, to the improvised weapon. That way when it grabbed something, you could anchor them. If you set it up with a longer chain than the lenth of the weapon, you could design it where your mount could be carrying the weight, so the weight woudln't impair you, but it would impair the creature when they tried to move away from you (since the weight would "disembark" your mount and then weigh the creature down).
As for comparable weapons, there is a Caltrop-headed spear in Giant Hunters Handbook, which has a caltrop mounted to a spear, which can be broken off into a creature's foot. It's an interesting weapon and the rules fit with your idea of targeted strikes.
Essentially, it is mancatcher that does more dmg, but realistically can be used once per fight.
The problem with a mancatcher, and there is not much reason for this to exist, Is that it is size specific for both the target and the wielder. Tiger Forks don't do any of the things that I am trying to accomplish with this idea. I am about 80% interested in the control that this weapon could provide
Drahliana, I am more than content to hear any physics or reality based arguments. 100 ft*lbs of torque is not a difficult obstacle to overcome in my opinion. Especially with how the but of a lance is traditionally cradled under the wielder's armpit.
First, I am not applying a charge bonus to damage on the trap, only the touch attack. Bear traps do 2d6+3 base.
Second, there is precedent for attacks specifically targeting appendages. Hamstring (feat), Hamstring strike (rogue talent), trip, and one can argue disarm to an extent, all would target the extremities of the target. Sunder Is used to damage a specific object as well.
Thank you For your input Greg, I have no counterpoint for anything you presented. The weapon would be intended to be used once at the beginning of a combat. I would also expect the full round and strength check to be used to reset the trap.
Out of curiosity, How would you operate attacks with the weapon, and the various scenarios that could play out with it actually latching to a target?
You could Use it mounted or unmounted. If your mount has multiple attacks, you can have it attack multiple targets to gain flanking on more than 1 target.
Improvised Weapon penalties, damage as a 1h improvised weapon (even if the lance is a 2h weapon wielded with one hand while mounted, he's not using the lance the way it was designed) bear trap does not set off, or might set off randomly but most likely not on the intended target.
In short, no, I would not allow it.
First off thank you for your input.
Catch-off guard, or exotic weapon proficiency ought to handle the improvised weapon penalties though.
The concept of the build is around this "lance" contraption being a designed delivery device for a bear trap. As for it not going off on the intended target, I have provided a means for delivering the device directly to the intended target. The tripping mechanism at the center of the device jaws that is responsible to tripping the device would be the tip of the "lance", so with a successful attack with this weapon you would be pressing the triggering mechanism directly against the target with violent force.
Now I would concede, and even expect, that if the touch attack were successful, but the trap's flat footed attack failed, that would mean the trap was triggered but did not hit its mark.
I would further expect it to be possible for a foe to strike the trigger with an attack to set the trap off, though in this case I feel it would be reasonable for the trap to close on whatever was used to strike the trigger.
I have this idea for a cavalier that uses a lance with a bear trap affixed to the end instead of a normal lance tip.
Below I have left the stat block (minus weapons). My question is this, GMs how would you handle this?
My inclination would be to make the character take exotic weapon proficiency to use the weapon with no penalty. The weapon does 2d6+3 dmg per a normal bear trap + the str modifier of the wielder. The only place I am fuzzy is how attacks would be handled. I believe that attacking a target with a bear trap would actually be 2 separate attacks. The first attack (against touch AC) would use the characters attack bonuses to see the trap successfully contacts the target. If the touch attack succeeds the trap is activate, the second attack would use the bear traps modifiers (+10) against flat footed (we already know the target was contacted by the trap).
This further becomes interesting because of the affect of bear traps. If I release the lance after a successful attack does the target take some sort of penalty until the trap can be removed (eg 1/2 move speed per a normal bear trap, or perhaps a penalty to attack or AC?). Additionally, what if I decide to keep hold of the lance? Can I now make a CM to drag or bullrush the trapped target?
In any case I know this can be a mechanical headache, I am curious to see how other GMs would handle it, or if you all would even allow it.
Cavalier stat block:
Cavalier trapper
Human cavalier (emissary) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 32, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 36)
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +0
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Defense
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AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +1 Dex, +2 shield)
hp 13 (1d10+3)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +0
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee lance +3 (1d8+3/×3) or
longsword +3 (1d8+2/19-20)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with lance)
Special Attacks challenge 1/day (+1 damage, free bull rush or trip when make full attack vs. target)
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Statistics
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Str 15, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Catch Off-guard, Combat Expertise, Mounted Combat
Skills Bluff +1 (+2 to conceal information about your sworn charge), Disable Device +0, Handle Animal +5, Intimidate +5, Ride +0, Sense Motive +4, Swim +1
Languages Common, Goblin
SQ mount (horse named Animal Companion), order of the seal[UC]
Other Gear hide armor, heavy wooden shield, lance, longsword, 128 gp
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Special Abilities
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Animal Companion Link (Ex) Handle or push Animal Companion faster, +4 to checks vs. them.
Catch Off-Guard Proficient with improvised melee weapons. Unarmed foe is flat-footed against your improvised weapons.
Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Mount (Ex) Gain the services of a special animal companion.
Mounted Combat (1/round) Once per round you can attempt to negate a hit to your mount in combat.
Seal's Challenge +1 (1/day) (Ex) +1 to damage target, -2 AC vs. others when used. Free bull rush/trip if full-att vs. challenged foe.
Animal Companion
Horse
N Large animal
Init +1; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +1
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Defense
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AC 17, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (+3 armor, +1 Dex, +4 natural, -1 size)
hp 4 (2d8+4)
Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +1
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Offense
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Speed 50 ft.
Melee bite +3 (1d4+3), 2 hooves -2 (1d6+1)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 16 (20 vs. trip)
Feats Power Attack
Tricks Attack, Combat Riding, Come, Defend, Down, Guard, Heel
Skills Acrobatics +0 (+8 to jump)
SQ combat riding
Other Gear hide shirt
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Special Abilities
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Animal Companion Link (Ex) Handle or push Animal Companion faster, +4 to checks vs. them.
Combat Riding [Trick] The animal has been trained to bear a rider into combat.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
rapscallion stats:
Unnamed Hero CR 1/3
XP 135
Human warrior 1
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception -1
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Defense
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AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+2 armor, +1 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 11 (1d10+5)
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will -1
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee morningstar +3 (1d8+1)
Ranged sling +2 (1d4+1)
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Statistics
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Str 13, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +2; CMD 13
Feats Toughness, Weapon Focus (morningstar)
Skills Climb +4, Intimidate +3, Swim +4
Languages Common
Other Gear leather armor, light wooden shield, morningstar, sling, 29 gp
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Special Abilities
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Potential scenario:
Cavalier is mounted on his trusty warhorse when he spots bandits orcs trying to abscond with some sheep from a local farm
The bandits are 40 feet away and adjacent to each other
The cavalier gets highest init roll and charges one bandit with his lance contraption, the horse attacks the other with power attack bite
I am starting lean towards kingmaker, since i want to do one and I am starting to get concerned that the one i just started is going to die. My preference is evil, but I am fine with good.
Stigly literally has absolutely no idea that you are even successfully communicating with whoever is behind the door. As far as he knows your attempts at speaking gibberish are less effective than his squawking.
Further:
Torphrex the Clever wrote:
"If you surrender, we will let you live, and exit this place. Last chance!"
Where I personally to be GM I would treat that as an intimidate tactic.
I see no issue with the way he has been roll played thus far.
