daion_anri's page

A bit confused who is older. Pharasma or Desna. Can you help me with that?

Pharasma existed prior to the start of the age of creation and is sole survivor of the previous reality. Alone or with Desna?

After that, Pharasma becomes aware of Yog-Sothoth, who was the 'watcher' from the previous reality. So, this is clarify what Yog-Satoth is older than both this godes

It's very interesting to hear your thoughts. Thank you all very much.

[s]

daion_anri wrote:

As far as I can see from current reports, assuming we discard The First Rule, becoming a psychic can be achieved in two ways:

• 1) Without innate abilities or talent, solely through training and education
• 2) By developing existing innate(gained through some incident) abilities

Maybe I'm overthinking, but I'm genuinely curious. I'm just genuinely interested in how Paizo and the world of Golarion answer this question, and what opportunities there are for becoming a Psychic.

Some of the subtler language in the Subconscious Minds seems to imply to me that it's an inherent ability, not something learned.

So much of the language seems to focus on talking about the subconscious mind as a way you've honed "Your abilities," and you'd think there would be some discussion about development as well.

Precise Discipline wrote:

Determine intended outcome. Align thoughts. Identify and resolve distractions. Manifest. Intentional focus is the key to unleashing your abilities, whether that's because your power naturally tends to precise, discrete effects, or because you've adopted strict discipline to ensure your mind can change the world only when you intend it to.

Emphasis bold. Note how a subconscious mind, which would make a ton of sense to be something you develop through training and precision, still talks about your abilities as if they're innate.

Gathered Lore wrote:

Many psychics are self-taught, frantically improvising how to best control their abilities before their power overwhelms them. Not you. Tutored by a mentor or classically trained at a facility for psychic development, you've learned techniques and teachings for best harnessing the mind, cataloging each expression of psychic power with a specific teaching, anecdote, or phrase.

Again, emphasis bold. In the subconscious mind where you literally have a teacher, it still talks in the context as if you...

Your conclusion isn't unconvincing, it just doesn't contradict what's said above.

Some of the subtler language in the Subconscious Minds seems to imply to me that it's an inherent ability, not something learned.

But all sentient beings have a subconscious. Therefore, anyone can potentially become a psychic, but there are different paths to it:

• - study/training, if you weren't born with such abilities
• 
  - developing innate abilities
• 
  - an experienced incident

Furthermore, the class description itself says: "You have awoken to the might of psychic magic." But how exactly this psychic magic was awakened in your mind seems to be very different, regardless of whether you were born with the ability or not.

P.S. I saw your updated message. We were thinking exactly the same thing XD

daion_anri wrote:

This case does not contradict my personal view on how one can become psychic: either through study or through the development of innate (acquired) abilities

That may be because your view on it is so vague and encompassing that it includes every practical possibility.

"Survived being attacked by a Blood Painter as a child and the lingering trauma causes the character to succumb to dissociative fugue states especially when under stress." (Subconscious Mind: Wandering Reverie) --- falls under 'development of acquired abilities'.

"Found an ancient tome of mental exercises originally intended to assist in traversing the Ethereal plane. Studying it the wrong way has allowed the character to exert their thoughts into tangible forces around them." --- falls under 'gained through study'.

"Granted as a boon for service to a minor deity." --- 'development of acquired abilities'.

"I was born with it." --- 'development of innate abilities'.

"My family paid a great deal of money to put me through Psychic school." --- 'gained through study'.

Which is not to say that this is a bad thing. It just becomes a bit moot as a distinction. Basically it comes down to "You can become a Psychic by whatever means your imagination can come up with."

Yes, I understand what you're saying. My view on this is so broad and vague because Paizo and the Golarion lore don't give me a concrete answer. That's actually why I created this thread: I'm curious to know a concrete answer to this question, assuming one exists.

daion_anri wrote:

So tell me: can psychic ability be learned, or are people born with it, or both?

Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

I tend to think of Psychics as either trained or innate.

I think it's too narrow even. Psychic abilities should be able to appear because of some accident or outside magic, just like sorcerer's. For example, one my char became a Psychic because of a strange mind-altering magic/technology from Numeria. No, you can't say to me this contradicts the lore :)

This case does not contradict my personal view on how one can become psychic: either through study or through the development of innate (acquired) abilities

As far as I can see from current reports, assuming we discard The First Rule, becoming a psychic can be achieved in two ways:

• 1) Without innate abilities or talent, solely through training and education
• 2) By developing existing innate(gained through some incident) abilities

Maybe I'm overthinking, but I'm genuinely curious. I'm just genuinely interested in how Paizo and the world of Golarion answer this question, and what opportunities there are for becoming a Psychic.

I know Psychics are not a Sorcerers, but the essence of their way to spellcascting is mysterious and incomprehensible (probably like any magic in general for us, people who are in the real world), but at the same time it requires the user to be a rational and conscious being, capable of studying and explore his mind. I understand that the narrative component of the class and its way of casting spells is built specifically in such a way that it can be decided with the GM or chosen as you like. But I would still like to have some confirmation or refutation of my arguments.

My thoughts on this are that the description of the class, its consciousness and subconscious, allows for both scenarios of how you can get psychic spellcasting:

• - You weren't born with any special abilities. You mastered this method of spellcasting through diligent study and training, which allowed you to develop your brain and mind. Gathered Lore and Precise Discipline are most suitable for this situation, although other subconsciouses can be chosen as well.
• - You were born with this ability, and you developed it over time (like a sorcerer). Emotional Acceptance and Wandering Reverie are more appropriate for this situation, although other subconsciouses can be chosen as well.

But I'm not here just to tell you how I see this situation. I'm interested in how this question will be answered:

• 1) Firstly by Paizo
• 2) Secondly by those others who know and understand the lore and universe of Pathfinder

So tell me: can psychic ability be learned, or are people born with it, or both?

Super Zero wrote:

Psychic spellcasting removes the need for incantations, not the Auditory trait. Only spells that make sounds have that.

That is also a good point that I think needs more attention.

So an example would be Bullhorn. A Psychic could cast the spell without uttering any incantations, but would still have to speak in order for their voice to be amplified and heard by all creatures in the spell's range.

If I correct understand this part, then Psychic spellcasting allow you cast when you are silenced, because you don't need to speak during your spell casting. But in some cases - you have to speak if spell enforce you to do it. For example we can see this spell Wails of the Damned - this spell have auditory trait, and we see this part in spell description "You howl a lament of damned souls..." - this spell in the same situation like Bullhorn spell. I think this is kind a narrative issue and you can just reflavore this spell and do it without your "mounth" and "prononceation". This reflavore is necessary to apply the Psychic spellcasting rule.

Am I correct in my thoughts?

Hello everyone! Please, help me to clarify this wording:

"You access the vast well of power that resides within your own mind, calling forth psychic magic with nothing but thought and will. You are a spellcaster and can cast occult spells using the Cast a Spell activity (Pathfinder Player Core 299). You don’t need to utter incantations to cast your spells, instead exerting your mind toward your intended effect as described in your subconscious mind class feature. Your spells still have clear and noticeable visual and auditory manifestations, as normal for a spellcaster."

Source: Pathfinder 2e Dark Archive Remaster.

I see clearly "You don’t need to utter incantations". It means Psychic spellcasting remove "auditory" trait from spells.

During my time playing games, I've seen the "lazy" nature of PF2e rules: Rules do only what they say, and nothing more.

But I still have doubts, because of two things:
1) "calling forth psychic magic with nothing but
thought and will" - it can be interpreted like Psychic need no nothing do to cast spells, even manipulate with their limbs or something like this, which we understand as a "manipulate" trait.
2) The most common and popular image of psychic/psionic - it is a creature that does everything with the power of the mind, without interacting with the world directly with the body.

I hope you can help me clear my doubts regarding this issue.

I'm kinda curious to why you're arguing for actively removing Arcane as an option, vs just something like being able to freely pick Arcane vs Occult?

Because this whole witchwarper class reminds me very much of H.P. Lovecraft vibe (maybe it's my obsession, I don't know), and, accordingly, occult themes. It seems that I'm just not satisfied with the fact that in the anomaly paradox that interests me, I can't use all sorts of eldritch and mental spells.

Your idea of freely choosing between occult and arcane spell list is more flexible and compromising than mine. I like your idea.

And if it was changed universally such that Witchwarper only casts from the Occult list, there wouldn't be any class in Player Core that casts Arcane spells at all.

I agree. In player core in this case there will be a shortage of arcane magic. But in the future Tecnomancer will be the main contributor of arcane magic in the game

Hello everyone! I was thinking about the current implementation of witchwarper and it gave me the idea that it should be completely occult. I'll try to explain why.

The paradox of anomaly gives us the arcane spell tradition, although thematically this paradox is much closer to something occult, incomprehensible and unknown. I think it would be more appropriate if this paradox gave the occult spell tradition. This idea can be extended to the entire class. The witchwarper itself is something that will disrupt the natural order of things, something that is thematically closer to the occult than the arcane.

I think that witchwarper would look more thematically holistic if it was completely occult, or at least if the paradox of anomaly gave occult spell tradition, and for example the precog anomaly gave arcane (but it doesn't seem to greatly improve the thematic state of the class).

I decided to share my observations and thoughts about the class. I would be glad to know what you think about this. If you find my suggestion useful, then maybe we can draw Paizo's attention to this situation.