chatdemon's page

Plus the old conversion rules only existed because 2nd ed had a 20lvl cap, when you look at the comparatives now there is no way to justify converting a 36th level anything across to 23rd (ish) levels. The amount of magical influence that these guys had put 20th levelers to shame, can you say 9x 9th level spells per day?

2nd edition AD&D had no level cap.

The 2nd edition DMG says:
"Theoretically, there is no upper limit to character class levels (although there are racial limitations). The material presented here takes characters only to 20th level--experience has shown that player characters are most enjoyable when played within the 1-20 range. Above 20th level, characters gain few additional powers and face even fewer truly daunting adventures."

So the game only outlined levels 1-20, but 20 was not an absolute limit.

Anyone out there ever wonder what I'm wondering? That this brawny ex D&D devotee may have nicked his cool surname from Deisel,

Vin has stated officially that in the movie Triple X, one of the fake tattoos he was sporting bore the name of his favorite D&D character (the name escapes me). That was the basis for the sudden furor about Vin playing D&D. I'm not sure where his stagename comes from, but I doubt it's from a TSR employee's nickname.

Basic D&D is Greyhawk correct? I noticed the gods are Greyhawk and the picture of coins are stamped with Greyhawk as well as many other Greyhawk references.

I assume you're talking about the D&D 3rd edition "Basic Set" which came out recently? If so, then yes, I assume it uses the same "greyhawk as the default setting" that the rest of 3rd edition uses.

If, however, you mean the REAL Basic D&D (the old pink or red box sets, along with the Expert, Companion, Master and Immortal Sets and the Rules Cyclopedia), then no, the default setting for that edition of D&D is "the Known World", later called Mystara in the short run it had as an AD&D 2nd edition setting.

chatdemon refuses to write one until Paizo and WotC remember that D&D existed before GenCon 2000.

Oh and he also generally refuses to write reviews for those who have to ask for them.

:-P

Then that would imply that the statement doesn't apply to you, correct?
I was referring to minors who have no comprehension of the editorial, marketing or business fields.
And, customer feedback is different from griping about editorial decisions that have already been made based on that very same customer feedback; the griping comes from the minority who were cut off.

Justifying why you're being a pompous ass doesn't make it OK. Trust me, I know, I'm a habitual PA myself on other forums.

To me, Dungeon is an idea source, not an adventure source. I was just offering my vote of confidence and support to Erik and crew.

No, you were being rude and flaming people you disagree with.

Customers have a right to complain. If I demanded that every customer of mine have 15 years of experience in cooking and managing an eatery before they could say "You know, I didn't like that meal", I wouldn't get very much repeat business, would I?

It's up to Lisa, Erik and the rest of the Paizo staff to decide whether each complaint is valid, not you, despite whatever you may do for a living.

Note that version 5.1 of Acrobat Reader (and later versions, I assume) allows you to select text to be pasted elsewhere.

Not if the PDF has copy/paste locked, which is an option in Acrobat full version when you create a PDF.

Locking such a basic feature is pretty bad PDF design, IMO, but I can understand publishers that do it to try and prevent people from reposting entire documents to the web in text or html format.

Greyhawk fans are impossible to please all the time.

Impossible.

I know this because I am one of them, so the best approach is to try your best and roll with the inevitable punches.

OTOH, some of us are going to complain no matter what.

And if you don't work for a living, just shut up until you're old enough to know.

Oh, and being that I "know" (in the "ive talked to them quite a bit online" sense) at least half the folks who've posted here in this thread, I think it's very safe to assume we're all job holding adults.

And if you don't work for a living, just shut up until you're old enough to know.

I could say the same about folks who don't understand the role customer feedback plays in business.

But that would be rude...

I'm not completely happy with what appears in Dungeon on a regular basis, but that is largely based on two things:

1.) I don't play the edition of D&D the magazine is geared to, my problem, not Paizo's, so I don't raise the issue here.

2.) I often disagree with the interpretation of Greyhawk lore the authors and editor of the Dungeon articles have. Not a topic worth debating here, so I don't bring it up much here.

Here's the big point though, I don't buy Dungeon on a regular basis, so I don't have any particular right to complain about the content, so I don't. Not here at least, arguements about the nature of Greyhawk content that take place elsewhere are another matter.

Those folks who do buy the magazine have every right to complain about content, or suggest what they would like to see. That's not telling Paizo how to do their job, that's telling a business how to further please its customers.

Chatdemon, since this was over 20 years ago, I can't debate these little historical facts with you except for this...

I didn't exactly come by my first Basic set by honest means and all of the parts came home with me sort of piece-by-piece. But one of those PIECES was Keep on the Borderlands. I don't remember this Haunted Tower at all, but it was a long time ago.

Fair enough, if you recieved a Basic Set secondhand, it may well have had extras in it. My only point was that B2 and the Basic Sets that contained it had no flavor text boxes. Later Basic Sets did (the ones with two rules manuals and Elmore art).

But, you are correct about products from that era having the flavor text. The Tamoachan and Tsojcanth modules are two examples that did.

True. Mystara really feels left out compared with most of the other settings,

I wouldn't mind seeing an article on KW/Mystara, if it was fluff heavy. A simple 3e conversion of something that has already been covered, as the Lupins article was (IMO) doesn't do much good for me.

But Birthright...I recall one article from the last Campaign Classics. I REALLY want to see a Dark Sun style treatment done for Birthright. in both Dragon and Dungeon magazines.

For those who may have missed it, a D20 Outfit calling themselves Anuire Press (made up, as I understand it, of a core group of the folks at Birthright.net) recently acquired a license to do a Birthright 3e product line from Hasbro.

I would love to see some more Mazteca content. I've been working on some ideas involving the Olman down into the Amedio Jungles and other parts even more remote and the Mazteca stuff can easily be implemented there.

It can?

If you really want to flesh out the Olman people, googling Aztec or Mayan topics is a far better solution. Or you could swing by www.canonfire.com and check out the articles I've written on the topic... :-D

Champions of Mystara takes about half of the original articles and condenses them into a one or two page summary.

A true completist Known World fan needs the articles, even if he has CoM.

Since I'm the one who suggested this thread on the WotC Mystara forum, I guess I'll chime in :-P

As a follow-up question: What would people like to see included in such a collection if it was ever released?
a) Just the story

Nah, leave in the Classic D&D game stats. In other words, reprint the articles "as is", simply reformatting them for presentation.

b) description of countries

Yes, definitely!

c) 3e stats for characters, races etc featured in the book

No thanks! If 3e/3.5e/4e stats in sidebars were required to make such a compilation happen, I guess I'd grin and bear it, but if the articles were completely rewritten to cater to D20, I'd pass on the product without even a curious browsing of it at the bookstore.

d) maps

Yes, but only if they are done in the classic Mystara hex style. Updating them to the pretty but useless in actual game play 3e style maps would make them unattractive to me. I'd pass on the product and stick with printing out what I need from the Dragon Archive.

e) new artwork

Again, sure, if the classic style is preserved. Get Elmore or Easley or someone else from the era and I'd be all over it. Use one of the new breed and lace the articles with depictions of emaciated elves, improbable weapons and the inevitable "3e spikey crap" style armors and I'd again pass on the product without further investigation.

f) anything else?

Yeah, add in the Known World Grimoire article series and make it a genuine old school Known World sourcebook.

As far as using flavor text, I don't, I skim it because most adventures these days assume you read it and leave out details in the actual description of the encounter or room that are important.

But it's not big words that make me shy away from the flavor text, it's the usually (at least 9 times out of 10) assinine way authors describe the rooms. As an example, in the module "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands", there is mentioned, and I quote, "A stoned Kobold." Ridiculous. This is definitely a case where the "big" word, petrified, would have been a better choice.

Until game adventure designers learn how to write, and quit hiding behind the big words they found on thesaurus.com, I'll keep ignoring their flavor text and composing my own.

Big words are fine, if they fit the flow of the sentence and paragraph, and if the author obviously understands what they mean. That is the difference between Gygax and some of the folks writing now. Gary obviously understood what the words meant, even if we, the readers, didn't always, some of the new crop of writers just look to me like they're padding their text to impress an editor or make the reader think they are intelligent.

You aren't fooling anybody.

Exactly how "old school" are you? I bought the Basic boxed set back in 1983 when I began to play and it came with Keep on the Borderlands. Even then there was "read aloud" text for the DM.

Incorrect. The Basic sets that came with B2 had no adventure in the rulebook, aside from the little Haunted Tower sample dungeon. No flavor text there.

The basic sets that came out in 1983, with separate DM and Player manuals, did have adventures (solo adventure in the player's book, sample party adventure in the DM's) and these did have boxed flavor text, but this set did not come with module B2.

In addition, the printings of B2 that came with the early boxed sets had no flavor text, unless you're going to count the Rumor Tables...