bdub's page

PF2 has one thing that 5e IMO lacks severely: customisation options.

I think, 5e is really a redo of 2e. It's definitely a simplified version of 3e, so it works very well when filmed. It doesn't try to provide a lot of options, and the folks working on it seem to be following Paizo with the release of adventures each year, rather than lots of option books.

What 5e has going for it is how quickly a new player can learn the game. I was able to quickly jump from Pathfinder to 5e within a single game session.

At the end of the day, D&D is nothing more than killing stuff and looting and maybe some puzzle solving. You really don't need rules for roleplaying.

What Paizo has going for their game is the high quality of their adventures.

What they need to figure out is how to make the transition to their new edition easy. If it takes too long for players to learn, they might give up and stick with what they know like some did when 4e came out. I really didn't want to learn what felt like a brand new system when 4e came out. I preferred to stick to what I knew and continue to play 3-3.5e and transition to Pathfinder, which was easier than going over to 4e.

I want a setting that captures my imagination. What pulled me from Pathfinder to D&D 5th edition was the Ravenloft setting. Although Hasbro didn't release a setting rule book like 2e, it's organized game play pretty much had scenarios in Ravenloft. What a refreshing break.

I'd like Paizo to come out with settings like TSR did for 2e. I'm still blown away by Dark Sun.

The second thing I want is the ability to find local games. This new version has to be good enough that people will be willing to run it. This ultimately means that some people will want to shift back to Pathfinder from 5th edition D&D. That means this new version has to offer something compelling enough for people to make the leap. I'm not sure incremental game mechanic improvements will be enough.

After reading through the section on combos and stances, I'm thinking that I'll need some type of play aid to keep track of what I'm doing. The simplest play aid I can think of would be cards with the different combos listed on them. For play test I'd use playing cards with PostIt notes of each combo type and stance. This isn't a whole lot different than spell cards for 5th edition D&D.

What problem is this new edition trying to solve?

Having been through all of the D&D edition changes since first edition, I always ask what a new edition of a game offers me before I jump in to play.

I'd definitely say that Pathfinder 1st edition provided an alternative to 4th edition D&D, which felt the least like D&D for me. I was able to continue to use the 3rd edition stuff I had accumulated, and I was able to find a lot of good, local games to play. And 1st edition Pathfinder definitely improved upon the material that had come before it.

I can also point out edition failures that I have seen. The big one that comes to mind is the switch from Vampire: the Masquerade to Vampire: the Requiem. The later completely failed to capture my imagination. and others to. I'd say this is when a lot of people made the leap from Vampire to 3rd edition D&D. The other obvious one that comes to mind is 4th edition D&D. This failure provided a great opportunity for Paizo to provide material to the player base that didn't care to make the leap to 4th. I was even pitched the game at the airport flying back from GEN CON.

Now, locally, I am seeing Pathfinder give way to D&D 5th edition, which kinda feels like a midway point between 2nd and 3rd edition. People enjoy playing it, and it's a fresh new experience after having played Pathfinder for the last decade.

What will Pathfinder 2nd edition offer to convince players to make the leap from 5th edition D&D to Pathfinder 2nd edition? 5th edition isn't an obvious failure like 4th edition.

I am ultimately going to play the game, where I can find people to play with locally. I'll either end up playing your new 2nd edition game or 5th edition D&D, which is currently what I'm playing now due to game availability. It became the new shiny locally.

What I want to know is what about this new edition will entice people to make the jump.

What are your must play PFS scenarios?

I gave my main theory on how it happened (the whole outcast boys) and the solution offered was that they don't deserve social interaction and that they do have to leave because they are toxic. So, it seems that, yes, kicking out a bunch of guys is part of the plan of shifting the demographic.

I don't understand the outcast boy theory, and I don't understand what's difficult about making people feel comfortable at the gaming table.

Why would anyone go out of their way to make people at the gaming table feel uncomfortable? And why would people think this is socially acceptable, especially at public games that happen in game stores and at conventions?

I really like this quote from Blast From The Past:

TROY
Exactly! I thought a gentleman was
somebody who owned horses. Turns out,
the short and very simple definition
of a gentleman or a lady is: someone
who always attempts to make the people
around him or her feel as comfortable
as possible. That's it! If you don't
do that, nothing else matters. The
cars, the clothes, the houses...

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/blast_from_the_past.html

bdub wrote:

Does anybody know how many five star female GMs there are? I know Paizo announces five star GMs on these boards, but I haven't been here long.

Not many. I know there's Thea Peters (aka Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome), and I think there was maybe one other that I heard of...? There could be more, but it's definitely a tiny minority.

Thanks.

I'm curious if women gamers prefer female or male GMs.

Does anybody know how many five star female GMs there are? I know Paizo announces five star GMs on these boards, but I haven't been here long.

Here an article that supports Jessica's points:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/the-dark-psychology-o f-the-sexist-internet-commenter/384497/

This article relates specifically to Internet commenting, so I think it's appropriate.

Now, where do folks think this conversation is evolving to? I'd like more good nuggets, so I'm open to hearing ideas.

I think it's reasonable to assume that any thread will start off with a random group of people. Some will cause distractions and derail things. Some will stick to the discussion. And some will introduce fantastic new ideas to take the discussion to a new level. At the end of the day, you end up with a mixed bag.

I set my expectations really low. I hope to get a few nuggets from conversations like these. I'm not trying to change public opinion or convince people a problem exist.

I did get a few good nuggets from this conversation, so I'm satisfied with the discussion.

Let's keep the conversation civil. I'm finding I'm saying this a lot.

Anyway, there have been a lot of good nuggets in this thread. I especially like the idea of donating gaming books. That's a wonderful idea.

As for the sexism discussion, that's not the topic. I think we can all agree that it exists in a mostly male dominated activity, but I do think Paizo has made a lot of good progress with their products. Of course, there will always be readers that want hot romance over regency romance. Players need to know when to turn down the dial when the audience changes. This is no different then cleaning up the language and content when young kids show up at your table. But some people need a clue stick from time to time when they don't realize they're saying something inappropriate.

Now, what do you guys think Paizo can do to improve the ratio at their organized play events?

Let's try to keep this conversation civil.

I re-read Jessica's post, and those are a lot of great ideas to retain a female gamer at your table. But how do you get them there in the first place?

I gave the romance analogy because the changes I see in RPGs feel very much like a cover replacement. The content is more aware, but the game play hasn't fundamentally changed that much.

For women that do play tabletop games without the encouragement of their significant other, what got them to the table?

Let me clarify. I'm not counting wives, girlfriends, or daughters of existing gamers.

Lots of great points in this thread. However, I'm still struggling with what can actually be done.

I have seen RPG books make huge strides in being more politically correct across both gender as well as ethnicity. I have seen game stores and gamers become mature socially. But I'm not seeing an increase in women coming into game stores to play RPGs or attend tabletop RPG games at convention. I see better ratios at board games and at LARPs.

What's not appealing about RPGs?

Are we failing to make the activity appealing?

For example, do you think more guys would read romance novels by just removing the hot guy off the cover?

What else needs to happen to increase interest in the first place? How do you get women to even set foot in a game store or buy a RPG? What fundamentally has to change?

Insain, using your logic, wouldn't I be better off buying the PDF if I want to use the classes in PFS? I can use the classes in the organized play since I can show proof of ownership, and I'll eventually end up with a corrected version in the future. I struggle with the motivation to buy the physical version under the scenario of a poorly edited book with no insight into when corrections will become available.

Why does errata only hit the digital PDF after the book is reprinted?

If I know the print copy has a lot of errors, what's the motivation to buy the physical copy?

Please help me understand Paizo's reprint logic.

I listened to Paizo's GEN CON 2014 Diversity panel on the way home from work today, and it got me thinking about what's going on in RPGs.

I have played RPGs off and on since the 80s, and while I see my gaming books becoming more and more politically correct, I'm not seeing an increase in female gamers at conventions or at organized play events such as Pathfinder Society.

However, in other geek related activities, I'm seeing more of a 50/50 split. For example, I see a pretty good split at anime conventions, Doctor Who conventions, and large comicons such as San Diego and Phoenix.

What do you think can be done to make roleplaying games more appealing to women (teenage and older)?

Being new to Pathfinder, what's the best way to approach errata with Paizo? If I buy a PDF, will a corrected version be released in the future that I can download?