balshazar's page

Only under unofficial errata are shadows given a language, as common. So officially, shadows cannot speak.

In this case it shouldn't matter. OP said that he's a psychic bloodline sorcerer, which means that he doesn't need verbal or somatic components to cast his spells, so even if the shadow can't speak or wave his hands about I would think he would be fine.

Anything that tries to avoid paying the cost for it is a clear violation of the intention of the rules. So any conclusion you would reach that results in a free permanent demiplane is obviously an incorrect interpretation/understanding of the rules.

Its fair that this is probably a violation of the intention. But if the rules are written badly or incorrectly that a "correct" reading of the rules does not necessarily involve the intent.

Additionally there are many times in pathfinder where you can reach the same end through different means, so saying that doing one thing to circumvent or reduce a cost isn't, by default, "obviously" anything.

Amrel wrote:

Trimalchio wrote:

The other issue is you cannot nest demi planes within one another, they aren't extra dimensional spaces but are essentially bubbles floating through the astral plane or ethereal plane:

"When you cast the spell, you decide whether the demiplane is within the Astral or the Ethereal Plane."

In general this is definitely a spell to work through with your DM, who might be willing to modify certain restrictions or have A conflicting view of planar interaction.

Sorry for any confusion. I wasn't suggesting nesting demiplanes. I was saying that the second casting would be used to extend the size of the plane. The spell rules state that a second casting can reset the duration of an earlier casting, or be used to add new space.

I included both options because I thought that someone might argue that casting the spell to reset the duration of an earlier casting wouldn't work with timeless, as resetting the duration of a 17 day spell doesn't necessarily equate to casting a non instantaneous spell with a duration of 17 days.

You have a big wall of text that I did not read through.

But case scenario, you cast the spell to extend the size of the plane in a plane with the timeless quality. You are adding to the size of the plane, not resetting duration. The spell create demiplane "exists" in the ethereal/astral planes not on the plane you cast it from (the demiplane) therefore the time is measured to the ethereal/astral (or planes it can touch like material) not from where you cast it.

You cast the spell to reset duration? You are affecting the base plane which still has time measured relative to material plane. It will end after 17 days pass on the material plane.

As for the other issues....yes lots of problems crop up. Generally speaking, I prefer the options that are the worst for casters. Afterall, you have a plane where you get to hide from the universe and nothing can attack you until you leave. The fact that if you spend too much time there...

Well if you aren't going to read Amrel's response, then whats the point of engaging in the discussion at all? Especially considering you only had to read the first several lines to get the part directed at you.

Regardless of RAI, I think by Raw Amrel is right.

1 - You cast create demiplane
2 - You give that demiplane the timeless quality
3 - You travel to your demiplane
4 - You cast a demiplane spell and use it to add onto the demiplane

Moving forward without adding assumptions, according to the rules around step 2 (the timeless quality), any spell cast on the demiplane now has a permanent duration. It doesn't matter if this is relative to the demiplane (because time still passes relative to other planes), or if the demiplane exists somewhere else or what have you, because the rules only say that If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any spell cast with a non-instantaneous duration is permanent.

When casting a demiplane spell as in 4, the rules say the new space has its own duration and expires separately from the first casting. If the first casting expires, you're still left with the same demiplane with the timeless quality, the landmass from casting 1 just isn't there any longer.

Following the rules, to determine if our casting is now permanent we just have to ask the following:

1 - Are any non instantaneous spells cast on a timeless demiplane permanent. Yes.
2 - Was the spell in 4 cast on a timeless demiplane. Yes.

This makes some sense when you consider that, even though the plane exists on the astral or ethereal plane, the magic used to create and maintain that additional space is sourced from within the plane.

I doubt this is RAI though, because like you said the spell lists out the cost of making it permanent, but by RAW it seems that the second casting of create demiplane meets all requirements to be permanent.

And however ridiculous it may sound, its good to discuss RAW, because that's how something that's broken like this can get fixed.

The most important rule here is:

"A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature's 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons."

The above text tells how Ghost Touch weapons work when attacking an incorporeal creature, but it doesn't say how it works when an incorporeal creature is attacking a corporeal creature with a ghost touch weapon.

All we have is the following:

1) The ghost touch property doesn't specify how it works when the attack is made by an incorporeal creature. All that's specified is that an incorporeal creature can wield the weapons against corporeal creatures because the weapon counts as corporeal and incorporeal.

2) The Incorporeal quality says that all attacks made by incorporeal creatures ignore armor

Since the ghost touch rules don't call out anything specific, and the Incorporeal quality rules do, I would think that RAW the attack would be a touch attack.

Just my own opinion, but it seems that a ghost touch weapon attack counts as an incorporeal attack when wielded by an incorporeal being, and a corporeal attack when wielded by a corporeal creature.

Additionally, from the incorporeal universal monster rule:
"An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature's Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus)."

Finally, unless they have the "ghost touch" enchantment, an incorporeal creature cannot normally manipulate any item or equipment, so they usually have no armor or shield bonus (though force effects are a way around this, a la mage armor)

And I don't see how the above text has anything to do with the question.

clone wrote:

If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.

...
In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including its gaining of two permanent negative levels

It keeps all it's age penalties, physical and mental.

It is an arcane raise dead that doesn't require the whole body.

I don't know if I agree.

The issue that I have is that the line of text you called out doesn't say "in all other respects", it just says in other respects (and then goes on to list that the character takes the same penalties as the raise dead spell).

Additionally, all of the spell descriptions reference the original creature. In the case where this spell was cast using a piece of the dead creatures flesh, then I would get keeping all penalties, as the original creature would be old.

However, in Amrel's case the original creature is young, and so the created clone would also be young (since the spell says it duplicates the original's body). As long as it was properly preserved I don't see why it wouldn't stay that way.

If a GM doesn't like this they could always rule that the body rapidly ages till it matches the old body, and as such you get the bonuses and penalties, but I don't see anything in the rules specifically stating the the cloned body is any different than the body it was originally cloned from.

There was a ruling that you can't get an attribute to the same thing twice so charisma to ac twice doesn't work.

You could try throwing In some form of eldritch heritage.

The ruling was that you cant get an untyped bonus from the same stat more than once.

The FAQ specifically calls out this case:

However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier.

In this case I believe you would be getting an untyped bonus from your service to Calistra and a deflection bonus from being a ghost.

Deific obedience to Callistra does not grant bonus AC. Though a "ghost lover" certainly has interesting meaning.

I believe deific obedience does grant that. The feat states:

If you have no levels in one of these prestige classes, you gain the boons marked as exalted boons.

and the third exalted boon for Callistra :

Protective Grace (Ex) You may add your Charisma bonus to your AC while wearing light or no armor. This bonus applies against touch attacks. Any condition that would cause you to lose your Dexterity bonus to AC also causes you to lose your Charisma bonus to AC.

What does ectoplasmic property do?

In this case Ectoplasmic armor is referring an occult oracle mystery that grants you an ectoplasmic suit of armor for a certain period of time per day.

Additionally, thanks for all of the suggestions! Keep them coming!

Hey All,

I'm currently creating a character for a 20th level campaign. I'm considering playing an occult oracle. The capstone for this class allows the oracle to rise as a ghost if it dies.

I'm planing on playing mostly as a ghost, and as such I would love suggestions on items/feats or other optimizations that would benefit this kind of character, as well as thoughts on pitfalls to avoid.

Additionally suggestions for how to pass as not being a ghost in public would be great.

Thanks in advance!