Claxon wrote:
Amrel wrote:
Trimalchio wrote:
The other issue is you cannot nest demi planes within one another, they aren't extra dimensional spaces but are essentially bubbles floating through the astral plane or ethereal plane:
"When you cast the spell, you decide whether the demiplane is within the Astral or the Ethereal Plane."
In general this is definitely a spell to work through with your DM, who might be willing to modify certain restrictions or have A conflicting view of planar interaction.
Sorry for any confusion. I wasn't suggesting nesting demiplanes. I was saying that the second casting would be used to extend the size of the plane. The spell rules state that a second casting can reset the duration of an earlier casting, or be used to add new space.
I included both options because I thought that someone might argue that casting the spell to reset the duration of an earlier casting wouldn't work with timeless, as resetting the duration of a 17 day spell doesn't necessarily equate to casting a non instantaneous spell with a duration of 17 days.
You have a big wall of text that I did not read through.
But case scenario, you cast the spell to extend the size of the plane in a plane with the timeless quality. You are adding to the size of the plane, not resetting duration. The spell create demiplane "exists" in the ethereal/astral planes not on the plane you cast it from (the demiplane) therefore the time is measured to the ethereal/astral (or planes it can touch like material) not from where you cast it.
You cast the spell to reset duration? You are affecting the base plane which still has time measured relative to material plane. It will end after 17 days pass on the material plane.
As for the other issues....yes lots of problems crop up. Generally speaking, I prefer the options that are the worst for casters. Afterall, you have a plane where you get to hide from the universe and nothing can attack you until you leave. The fact that if you spend too much time there...
Well if you aren't going to read Amrel's response, then whats the point of engaging in the discussion at all? Especially considering you only had to read the first several lines to get the part directed at you.
Regardless of RAI, I think by Raw Amrel is right.
1 - You cast create demiplane
2 - You give that demiplane the timeless quality
3 - You travel to your demiplane
4 - You cast a demiplane spell and use it to add onto the demiplane
Moving forward without adding assumptions, according to the rules around step 2 (the timeless quality), any spell cast on the demiplane now has a permanent duration. It doesn't matter if this is relative to the demiplane (because time still passes relative to other planes), or if the demiplane exists somewhere else or what have you, because the rules only say that If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any spell cast with a non-instantaneous duration is permanent.
When casting a demiplane spell as in 4, the rules say the new space has its own duration and expires separately from the first casting. If the first casting expires, you're still left with the same demiplane with the timeless quality, the landmass from casting 1 just isn't there any longer.
Following the rules, to determine if our casting is now permanent we just have to ask the following:
1 - Are any non instantaneous spells cast on a timeless demiplane permanent. Yes.
2 - Was the spell in 4 cast on a timeless demiplane. Yes.
This makes some sense when you consider that, even though the plane exists on the astral or ethereal plane, the magic used to create and maintain that additional space is sourced from within the plane.
I doubt this is RAI though, because like you said the spell lists out the cost of making it permanent, but by RAW it seems that the second casting of create demiplane meets all requirements to be permanent.
And however ridiculous it may sound, its good to discuss RAW, because that's how something that's broken like this can get fixed.
