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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Castilliano wrote:
If it feels like you're exploiting a loophole, then don't assume it's allowed unless your GM explicitly allows it. And please don't argue in real life about such things. Ruins the table's mood.

No, I'm the GM. My player wants to pick up Wholeness of Body for that "healing meditation" vibe but is otherwise uninterested in ki spells. His plan was to retrain his current first level feat into one of the prerequisite feats, then retrain his fourth level feat into Wholeness of Body, and finally retrain his first level feat back into its original selection. I did not allow that, but I said that when he gets to sixth level he can pick one of the Ki Strike or Ki Rush, then retrain his fourth level feat, then retrain his sixth level feat into either Ki Blast or Abundant Step. Quite frankly, none of these higher level feats key off specifically from one of the lower level feats, so it doesn't make his character more powerful than the other PCs.

Also, discussing builds does not, in any of my tables' experience, ruin the mood. It's part of the experience.

mrspaghetti wrote:
You're explicitly not allowed to retrain into something that you wouldn't have been able to take initially, so no.

Are you talking about Retraining requiring prerequisites be slotted into lower level slots than their successors? A good point. This would make it impossible for the sixth level feat to cover the prerequisites of the fourth level one.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Powerful Leap affects the Leap action, while Cloud Jump affects the Long Jump and the High Jump actions, so they don't really add to one another. If you're Long Jumping, you Stride and then Leap. If you have moved at least ten feet in your stride (or you have Quick Jump) and you are successful at your Athletics check, you jump however far you wanted AS LONG AS it's not farther than your Speed. With Cloud Jump, the difficulty gets slashed to a third of what it would be, and you can spend extra actions to add your Speed to the maximum possible distance.

Consider a character that has Quick Jump and Cloud Jump and a Speed of 25. They can spend all three actions to jump across an up to 75 feet wide chasm by being successful in a DC 25 Athletics check. Since they're at least 15th level and Legendary at Athletics, if they have a positive modifier to STR they can only fail on a roll of 1. If they do fail or critfail, they only move Leap distance, which in this case would be 10 feet, or 15 with Powerful Leap.

If they are trying for height, they can High Jump with the Long Jump formula, so a single action and a DC 30 check should enable them to jump 5 feet forward and 25 feet up. If they spent two actions, they can reach 30 feet up, or farther with a higher DC, up to 50 feet at DC 50. A third action would enable them to reach a height of 75 feet with a DC of 75, but that's a little beyond the scope of a 20th level character. If they fail the check, they leap 3 feet up, or 5 with Powerful Leap.

Having Wall Jump and being next to a wall would allow them to break that DC 75 Athletics check into three DC 30 checks; each success raises them by 25 feet and each failure by 3 feet, or 5 with Powerful Jump.

So, in my opinion, after you pick Cloud Jump, Powerful Leap is kind of not worth it.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Exactly, and money is just abstracting value. There's no specific subsystem for prospecting because the preexisting ones (Earn an Income on Lore) already covers it.

Edit: Besides, if you need precious gems or somesuch for a spell's material component and it's not available for sale but you do have access to a relevant mine, it's fine to just abstract it.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'd rule it as an Earn Income with the task level depending on the type of minerals available; low for a coal or salt mine, high for gold, even higher for fantasy minerals. Mining is not just about digging, it requires you to know which rock flakes are valuable mineral and which aren't worth the trouble, how to hit the rock exactly at the cleaving plane so it breaks easier, and so on.

Having said that, I've no idea if Society has any sort of ruling for extractionism. You could theoretically do the same with Logging Lore and valuable woods or anything like that.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Hello, folks. This is a question that came up in a build recently, and I'd like to see what y'all think. This is a simplified version of the original logic, which used a more complex sequence of downtime retrainings.

From what I've seen, all of the monk feats which grant ki spells (and focus points) have "ki spells" as a prerequisite except for the first level ones; which implies that the only entry points into that tree (so far) are Ki Strike and Ki Rush. Assuming that's true, consider a monk that picks, for example, Ki Rush for their first level feat, then Wholeness of Body at fourth level and Abundant Step at sixth level. Both Abundant Step and Wholeness of Body have "Ki Spells" as a prerequisite, but they each grant ki spells by themselves, so could our hypothetical monk retrain out of Ki Rush and leave Wholeness of Body and Abundant Step in a sort of "prerequisite Gordian Knot" state where one feat grants the prerequisite of the other? Would they stop working for lack of prerequisites instead? What if the monk also trained out of Wholeness of Body, could Abundant Step satisfy its own prerequisites or would it then stop working?

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I think the key is that reflex saves are not dodge saves.

Back in the day before third edition came along, a fireball caused you to save versus spells; the description of a successful save wasn't specified, so we improvised: a wizard might be able to put up a magical barrier and protect themselves from the full dawizard, a sword-and-board type might partially block the blast with his or her shield, and a thief might be limited to hiding their important bits behind their cloak. With the advent of third edition, the save name changed, and so did our perception of the actions behind it, but in the end the concept is the same; did you react fast enough to protect yourself? Don't worry too much about the name of things. A successful save by an unconscious person can be interpreted as that they happened to not breath in the flames, and in the case of your pillar the magical energies of the spell resonated with its mystic runes, partially deflecting the blast. Think of it as a challenge.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

In page 586, the low-grade cold iron buckler has Hardness 3, HP 12, and BT 6, twice as much HP and BT as the regular buckler in page 277, which has Hardness 3, HP 6, and BT 3. In the same page 586, the low-grade cold iron shield has Hardness 5, HP 20, and BT 10, the same as the regular steel shield from page 277 with its Hardness 5, HP 20, and BT 10.

I expect there was a typo on the stats of the low-grade cold iron buckler.