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Hi there,

Question: How much damage does an eidolon inflict when it has a Bite-attack, it is its only natural attack and it has taken the bite evolution twice?
Relevant text parts (Both taken from " http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/eidolons "):

"If the eidolon only has a single natural attack, the attack is made using its full base attack bonus and it adds 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier on damage rolls made with that attack, regardless of the attack’s type."
(directly under the heading "Evolutions")

"If the eidolon already has a bite attack, this evolution allows it to deal 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier on damage rolls made with its bite."
(Rules Text of "bite", 1 Point Evolution)

Does 2x 1-1/2 equal 3, since the Evolution text says it "adds" 1-1/2 times its strength modifier, so 1.5+1.5=3?
- So when it has a str of 14 (lvl 1 Quadruped eidolon) with only the bite evolution (taken an additional time to the free one you get), do you do 1d6+6 damage? Seems a little powerful for level 1, doesn't it?

Thanks for the answers :D

Can't overpower a battlefield-controller wizard with equipments? Say that to someone with a rod of persistant metamagic, a lesser rod of quicken, a decent headband of intellect, and an improved familiar with a wand of fog cloud!

Heeelloooo 3 saves or suck per round + hard to orient for everyone!

Yes. Which sucks for everyone :P I've never been a friend of fog-spells (Except Stinking Cloud, mind you). And yes, a Controller cant be as overpowered as a DPS Char - I dont see a problem with that statement. You can easily overpower a DPS Char up to more than 60-70 DMG per Hit, while you can just heighten the Spell DCs of Casting chars by... what? 3 or 4? And thats the important thing - Save or sucks suck if the DCs are too low - Damage is always useful. Esp. if it's enough to kill enemies before they can react.

PS: Okay, now THAT was my last post to this thread :P Take care^^

Guys, it's okay, I've already said I know enough to get the Ninja busted, and before this thread's going to explode of people always repeating the things the people on page 1 said, It'd be nice if you could just leave it at that^^

To the people saying that he's well over his WBL - I've said on page 1 that he got this due to an extraordinary situation where we got the chance to equip ourselves to our liking in a quasi-dreamlike world against a hilariously overpowered endboss, so thats no problem. YES, the rest of the group is equipped more or less equally (more or less since you cant overpower a battlefield-controller Wizard solely by equipment as you can do with a rogue or fighter).

And yes, to all those wondering about his attack bonus: I've explained this on page 1 as well (Fairly at the bottom); He's coming out at about a +15/+16). And those who are suspicious about him getting buffed before a fight - You never had a situation where you KNEW a fight was coming up and were able to buff your party shortly in beforehand? Like you were on the other side of a door and knew bad guys where on the other side or sth?

In this situation, they were there to engage in fake diplomacy (Acting nice but then telling us to lay down or weapons and expose our necks) - The ninja was stealthed and waited behind them until they blew their cover - BAM. Detect thoughts - only one direction. The one Rakshasa watching the other's backs failed on his amulet of proof against detection and location and didnt notice him. He got them by surprised and shanked them before they knew what was coming. Ergo they WERE all within 10/20 feet, albeit him having the longshot spell on him cast since before the diplomats were in sight, so he had 20ft range with them. So no Range penalties, they were all flatfooted, and he won initiative cause he was at +9 Initiative (26+Alter Self), same as them - And rolled an 18. Is that so surprising that everyone needs to make a fuzz about it? O_o Thus, he gained a full round worth of sneak attacks since enemies are flatfooted in the round following a surprise round as long as they arent acting, which they werent since he won initiative.
A few lucky rolls later, they were all down or running more or less solely due to the Ninja.

So to everyone who still wants to post in here - It wont help me anymore :P To everyone who still wants to discuss it - Do as you please, but I wont read it cause I already told my GM about the problem and I'm done with it^^

Have fun and take care ;)

Hm... okay, got all questions clarified then. Thanks for all the quick answers :D

K, fine, but he has Holy Shuriken, because of this bossfight we're facing. I'm just afraid he'll down that boss in two rounds and the rest of the group gets to do nothing :/ (EDIT: Didnt want to sound too selfish here, in fact, the other players think there's sth fishy as well).

And with THIS damage ratio (as MacGurcules stated, and I agree, that he does in fact get a full round worth of sneaks the round after the surprise round if he wins initiative), he could very well down a dude several CRs above him with a bit of preparation :/

Soo... It all goes back to the DM after all, then? That he lets him pass with the non-selfdestructive Shuriken?

To the Wand: Yes, he's got one for himself (He's getting everything he can^^).

And he beats the DR of a Rakshasa because its 15/Good and Piercing, and Shuriken are piercing weapons. Or does Good and Piercing mean they really have to be good and piercing, like a holy spear? I always understood it as either good or piercing, since it'd be way to specific otherwise?

EDIT: Okay, it clearly states here that both conditions must be met... huh...^^

EDIT: Jesus guys, give me some time to reply^^

Here's the Attack-Bonus-Explanation of the Ninja:
he's got a 26 Dex and +6BAB, meaning he's got a standard roll of +6 for the first 6 attacks (Haste at full BAB, Flurry at full BAB, first TWF at full BAB, first attack at full BAB, rapidshot at full BAB) and +1 for the last 2 (second BAB and TWF rolls). That doesnt include ANY magic at all.

He gets Haste and Enhancement Bonuses (adding to a +2), making it a +8/+3. He gets Bardic Music for another +2, making it a +10/+5. Even if he didnt get any bonuses now, he'd still hit at a 55% chance for the first 6 attacks. Getting a Prayer makes it +11/+6 and lowers the enemies AC, giving him a 65% chance to hit. Alter self gives him another +2 on dex, making it +12/+7. Throw in a few debuffs from the mage/Cleric/Bard on the enemies and you're good to go.

@Grick: Thanks for the Dev Quote, will point that towards the DM :D

PS: I'm not trying to break my buddies' character, but its just no fun if he rolls over everyone just by snapping his fingers :(

EDIT: @Midnight Angel: We got some special RP circumstances running right now in our group allowing us to equip ourselves before a big fight, so thats out of the question. Sorry I didnt say that sooner :/ But the question still stands - He could do that with nonmagical Shuriken as well, limiting his possibilities, sure, but not against Rakshasa, for example. EDIT AGAIN: Oh yeah, and he already DID that without magical shuriken - at lvl 4-5 or so he already was such a power house, only without Rapid shot and Improved TWF, he only had about 4-5 Attacks, not 8. Didnt matter against CR 5 enemies if he had 4-5 or 8 attacks^^

EDIT 2: Situation was that the group wizard cast it just before he gave the Ninja the signal to attack (stealthily, so enemies wouldnt notice it), he attacked, initiative.

Yeah, the DM houseruled them to be Thrown weapons for the purposes of throwing, not ammunition, because "Everyone should have his fun, and if his weapons break, he wouldnt be ninja-like" >_>
So they don't break. And under that premise (even if they weren't holy), he'd still do 8*(4d6+Str+Pointblank Shot+Any bonuses he gets from Party Wizard/Cleric/Bard/etc.) per round. Since they aren't used up, he can also strike through specific DRs, so thats no problem for him.

Since the common Rakshasa has an FF-AC of 19, its no problem for him to hit them, since he's the glasscannon the group pushes to his limits (EVERY Buff imaginable gets thrown on him so he can kill everything^^). He's got about 11-12 Ki-Points, so he can use Vanishing Trick and Flurry of Stars for 5-6 Rounds, and thats only counting if the Encounter isnt over after 1 Round. With Vanishing trick, he's always Sneaking them since normal Rakshasa cant do anything against Invis, and he is balancing out the -20 to sniping via the Stealth bonus invisibility provides.

I just find it sick that Rapid Shot, Haste and TWF all stack on thrown weapons, and that Flurry of Stars doesnt even has a "If you have haste active on you" clause.

EDIT @Seriphim84: Could you point me towards a rules-text that clarifies this nr. 2? That'd help, probably. We haven't found a clause that states that flat-footed ends for every enemy as soon as he starts attacking.

Hi there,

Got a question and I thought I'd get a confirmation here:
We got a lvl 8 Ninja in our group, and the dude's kicking A**. He's got a dexterity of around 24-26, and his combo is this:

-Two-weapon-Fighting
-Improved Two-Weapon-Fighting
-Rapidshot
-Ninja Trick: Flurry of Stars
-Haste from the party Wizard

Is it right that he can throw EIGHT Shuriken with his combination? (2 from BAB +6/+1, two extra from Improved TWF, two extra from Flurry of Stars, one extra from Haste, one extra from Rapidshot)
At lvl 8? Getting full SA with every single attack if the enemy is flat-footed?

We had that problem yesterday - He downed 4 CR 10 dudes all by himself (Rakshasa, so not THAT able in Combat, and they didnt see him because he's got a stealth check of around +21). His damage accumulated to around 30-40 per shuriken (Holy returning Shuriken, so they're 6d6+1d2+9 (str+Enhancement Bonus+Point Blank Shot+Deadly Aim)), meaning he downed them all in one round, without breaking a sweat and before they could react (Because of his gigantic Initiative).
That can't be right, can it? TWF states that its rules also apply to thrown weapons, Flurry of stars doesnt say anything about it not stacking with haste or TWF, same thing with Rapid shot. How can a character have as many attacks as he has levels? Is this really legitimate?

In Comparison, a "normal" Rogue-Build has 5 Attacks at lvl 8 (2 BAB+ Improved TWF + Haste), albeit dealing 3x4d6 less damage at the very least (or 18d6 in case of a holy weapon).