Yalka's page

Check this character profile out. (from a Beta PbP)
It seem similar to the over-all type of build you're talking about, though I DIDN'T take Disable Device or Stealth, and in fact swapped out the Trap Save Bonus & Uncanny Dodge for a 1/2 level Tracking Bonus and Trip Feat (Wolf Totem) - You can also see that Yalka is Whirling Frenzy like people mention (beware: Whirling Frenzy + 2WF can miss ALOT).

A Double Weapon of some sort helps you maximize your STR bonus (1.5 STR dmg main, .75 STR dmg off hand), though at the cost of a Feat (well, Quarterstaff is free). (My Double Greatspear is technically made-up, but in line with Great X weapons and Double X weapons). You'll actually notice that with her not-super-high STR, Encumbrance is actually a serious issue, depending on if I'm carrying all my gear or non-combat essentials are on my horse, and if I'm raging or not. EDIT: A serious issue if you'd like to avoid Medium Encumbrance penalties to skills. Which given your skill concerns, sounds like you would.

Why exactly are you set on a Barbarian? Are the new Rage Powers just too sexy to turn down?
I'm just asking because a Ranger can still be a 'barbarian', just not with the capital 'B'.

And if you're ACTUALLY interested in 2WF, Rangers' Combat Style ignoring pre-reqs mean your DEX doesn't have to be higher than you actually want, meaning your STR can easily end up equaling your 2WF Barbarians', certainly at lower levels and averaged over every combat round. Being extra-strong sometimes during combat vs. just having a high STR as a Ranger (both can yell and froth at the mouth if they want, or not) doesn't really seem a signifigant difference in-game role-playing-wise. So for the most part, I think a 2WF Barbarian and a (Strong) 2WF Ranger will end up doing similar damage, end up with similar ACs, but the Ranger has more Class Skills and Ranks.
Nevertheless, I still made Yalka a Barbarian because it worked for her character!

I think you can end up with a good character, capable at these 'rogue-ish' skills and still good in their combat role, either way, so don't sweat it. Just go with what feels right. And certainly don't sweat it too much before the freakin' Final rules are out! :-)

I presume (hope) we're able to rig the alarm wires for the further traps we find so as to not alert whoever's at the other end, but can we tell if the trap(s) we already set off have "alarm" wires headed down?
(i.e. did the alarm already go off) ???

Hmm...
I just want to look for what the best means down to/from the cavern system below, if there is rungs in the shaft(s),
(i wasn't 100% clear if it was possible to climb down the shaft, at least with a rope... 2 ft wide seems do-able, if snug...?)
or any secret doors elsewhere. Looking down the canyon face from wherever's the best vantage, do I see any signs indicating where the surface has been disturbed, or anything like a mineshaft entrace somewhere on the sides of the canyon below?

"What does dwarf think? Your people hatch in eggs underground, know much underground lore, right?"

About the shadow, I have a ground shaking theory to share:
"Yalka think shadow-demons only be kill by weapons of magic like Martaug and Yalka save from at Barn"

Like-wise, searching everything especially for clues as to what's been going on here, especially anything describing the shafts leading down or any other tunnels. Wait, I'm illiterate, so if I find any written material I'll just hand it to my betters :-)

I also drop my pretense of hiding my illiteracy if that means Grumble reads Cale's book aloud :-)

I'll accompany Martaug upstairs.
If the highest floor is dark/windowless, maybe I'll leave it to him with his Orcish sight to search that area for clues as to what's been going on here, while I search the 2nd story nook. How recent does it look like it was used, for one?

...I take the hole on the ground floor is wide enough to climb down, at least for the brave/fool-hardy?

"Think is true end this demon?", I ask Valdisara, unsure if the demon is truly gone.

"Yalka think same demon we fight at Barn before... Wonder how long before Blackspears miss their friend..."

I check out the floor again, is there some sort of trap door or loose board?

"What standing round for? Tell what is in book, Grumblenaught."

If we're worried about Blackspears coming down on us in hordes, we might want to split up to search the rest of the place...?

Chris:

"Black-Spear, Black-Spear, What'cha gonna do when WE got the Black-Spears?" (ahem)

I think it's the ghost's turn...

"!Maa Varnat! !Shaadaa Varnat! !Rantaka Kalzankazt!!!", I yell in an inhuman voice (Draconic)
as I whip my spear thru the creature's general area (Enraged), but to no avail... (unless a 10 hits)

Oh yeah, the last glyph combo I activated was "CAB" which caused "the spear tip to shimmer"... Is that still active, or do I have to spend an action to do it again? I'm not even sure what that one DOES, but the other ones don't really seem useful here (unless Valdisara starts getting cocky)

Startled at the sight of the shadowy figure emerging from the floor boards (making the check),
I silently ready the "Darkspear" slung across my back as I step up to corner it between me and the others (flanking it if possible), and strike at it's hazy form: 10 to-hit, 10 dmg (not counting enhancements on the Darkspear or Flanking)

I skid to a stop at the window as my target is ejected from the room,
peering out to see what came of him. (watching river to see if he pops up)

Heaving with heavy breath as I recover from the intensity of battle, I grunt and add:
"Look like wet man go swim now.", unsure if he actually bit the bucket (or timber in this case),
but he seems to be out of the picture for the moment, at least.

I'll hand over the book to Grumble, since he was the one who knew Cale originally.
Do I notice anything else in this area where Cale was hiding? Perception: 20

"Blackspear seem leave big many traps.
So many traps seem waste of time if not expect bandits want take precious things...
You think should still explore whole building try avoid traps...?"
I'm NOT the one who always figures out crime/mystery movies before they end, so I really don't have any great idea, except that a wind-mill water pump by itself doesn't really seem worthy of special defenses: what is there to steal? I guess they could be extra paranoid of any interruption to the pumping...??? All I can say is I think we should stick it out and search the whole place for any info we can... There may even be another way down into the tunnels/caves from here or nearby... /shrug

I shrug off the mystic chanting trying to pester it's way into my head,
familiar with the effect such words can have on the weak-willed (no offence to Val & Grumble ;-)).
I'm slightly surprised when he seeks to retreat thru the window,
but he's obviously deranged and up to no good, so I launch into action:

Vaulting over the rail, I charge him, and seeing he's about to escape,
I decide to drop my spear and Grapple him: but I fumble my spear as I drop it!!! (Natural 1!)

I don't know if he's casting a Channeled Spell or not,
but if he provokes an AoO SOMEHOW, I'll try to Grapple him again: 21!
(If I can't Grapple as AoO for some reason, I'll try Tripping him instead... (23 w/ Imp. Trip)
If that clinches it, I also use my Knockback Rage Power, slamming him (Bull Rush) back against the far wall,
for 8 non-lethal damage (my normal unarmed damage w/ 2H dmg bonus...?)

Will Save: 19 More of the coward's tricks...
If my Init is up (?), I'll just delay for now...

I yell down to everyone: "Cale truly down there?"

Yow!, so he must either be staying very still, or...

I pay heed to the Wolf, whose nose might help him find Cale by scent...

Hearing only Cale's threatening incantations in response to my words,
I do what I came up here prepared for, close my mind to useless thoughts and channeling my ancestor's strength and courage (Rage), I whip both ends of my spear into where I last heard him:
I'm attacking where I think he is. I rolled a 9 for Perception to discern his true location, which probably doesn't help, but at least it wasn't a 1 :-). D-1 it is.
Three attacks: 14 to-hit (11 dmg), 9 to-hit (15 dmg), and 17 to-hit (13 dmg).
If I hit him and drop him to "Unconscious"/negative HPs, I won't try and finish him off.
If the first two don't hit, I'll attack D-2 with the final attack.

I step to B-2 after my attacks, to make more room for the Wolf.

My idea was to back out of the room & jump/climb up to the balcony, then stealthily head down to Cale (by stairs or possibly jumping if there's an open railing inside) to hopefully flank this degenerate sorceror. I take precautions against traps by sweeping my spear ahead of me.

I believe Valdisara is first though, so I'm waiting for her... just trying to get this going again :-)

Did you say something about a map, Chris?
(Feel free to place me anywhere convenient)

I was going to wait until after a level-up or two to ask, but perhaps Yalka could have fixed up the remaining spider claws into a Masterwork Spiked Gauntlet by now? ;-)

"Oh, no,
Black Spears want make us join them in un-death, but we leave their bodys real-dead back at farm. Posse come this way for see tracks of wights going to hills, and others say see Black Spears head this way. Black Spear Un-dead fix mill for pump waters is why working now. Have Old Cale not meet Black Spears yet?"

Hey Chris, quick question:
I was thinking: Where is this pumped water going? Would I have seen the "canyon side" of the mill at all while approaching, or at least enough to see if they're pumping the water out the back/ down into the valley?
(I might actually be going somewhere with this) ;-)

I glance amongst my companions,
nervous I'm missing out on crucial details, especially that last bit of Mar-Tog's.

"Da... Bad luck for Old Cale, small childs believe storychant words and want follow you example.
Yalka here for Deputy Win honor, find bandits who kill farmer, not for find treasure.

Why not you talk us outside with no weapon?
You listen our plan in town and sneak here with no tell, maybe if act honor now, you step away path of death?

If Old Cale no see or hear real world, only scared of children and ghosts,
Yalka know he not live long, many bear and deadly creature in hills ready eat blind food like him."

If I can catch Grumble's eye, I nod towards the door,
indicating it might be good to talk Cale into going outside, away from any traps.

I'm silent otherwise.
If there is sufficient space inside I'm wielding my double spear, otherwise the "Blackspear".

I'm not being COMPLETELY silent, though I'm not yelling out either
(that was more of a muttered curse).

...Is that his FEET are two feet above my head?
I would try and support the boy's body to take the weight off. If my spear can cut him down, that would make the height not a problem. Otherwise, I would want to work with someone else to support his body while the other climbs up and along the beam to cut him down that way.

I'll be following right behind Grumblenaught.
"No Sazdo..." I curse (in Kellid), shocked to see the boy like this, and immediately try to cut him down and see if I can revive him: Heal Check: 11 "Mar-Tog, can help boy?"
(I have a Healing Kit anyone can use to get a +2 on their check if trained in Heal)

I shrug, "Yalka ready anything. If Grumble want climb, can tie together Yalka & help climb both us.
Or ready run fast & straight, or climb hills UP & sneak other side that way."

Still fidgeting with the Black Spear (?), I whisper:
"What think do? Hide & watch, or attack now? ...Climb secret by cliff maybe take surprise?"
I'm guessing Yalka/Grumble are the best climbers, and my faster Speed would need less checks.
If someone has a plan involving a stealth approach along the cliff...
Yalka/whoever could set up a rope, making it easier for even those with heavy armor...???
Otherwise, my horse can run the 200' in one round, and probably fit one person besides me,
though I'd prefer to keep it back here unless we have a "great plan".

Chris, what time of day/ light conditions is it?

"Valdisara, magic spear maybe kill Shadow Creature that we not touch before?" I say hesitantly,
leaning on what I presume is her greater knowledge of Undead, or greater REAL knowledge and not just fairy tales.

I believe Martaug expressed interest in using a Spear, so he has first dibs.
I can definitely use one, but if someone else really wants to, feel free.
I think Grumble saw the mill before, and probably would have poked around it since it's the only thing out here.
Would Grumble have come/gone thru the OTHER way (past the mill) and know what is that direction?

Chris: I wanted to 'test' the spear with the most glyphs, so they would end up more 'equal'.

Which is it?

Whoops! :-) I was trying the CAB combo with that one (words were correct, not letters).

"Gimel-Aleph-Vet" (CBA)
...The AAA/BBB/CCC combos didn't do anything?
Grumble saw something... Did all of us?
You wrote 'after several minutes', so would we have finished our spear testing,
and maybe done something else by the time this 'guard' appears?

"Uhh... What happen now?" I mumble, glancing hesitantly at Martaug & the others (?)
Not hearing an immediate explanation, I feel reassured I'm not especially unlearned about this,
and try again: CBA? I'm basically trying all the combinations involving all 3 glyphs.
"Gimel-Vet-Aleph" I say forcefully, glancing back at the others as if I know what I'm doing. Bluff=5
After that I'll try same glyph combos, i.e. AAA, BBB, CCC

I don't have UMD or Know:Arcane,
though perhaps this is the sort of thing to start drawing up memories from my Sorcerous mother...
I nod solemnly at Grumble's words,
cognizant of the fact that he may well be asking to kill Cale himself if it comes to that.

Dismounted to greet my companions and look over the mill, I examine the spears more closely.
I'll give it a go by pressing each of the glyphs with intention, in order, and then in different orders (ABC,BAC,BCA,etc) to see if anything happens. Although I don't have Read Magic or UMD/Arcana, I *CAN* speak Draconic, and if that helps, I could try to intone their names...(or get an idea of their meaning?)

OK, I'll grab both spears.
They maybe work by pressing the glyphs, or intoning their names?, either each glyph doing something different, or needing a combo in a certain order...?
I'll say that Yalka doesn't mess with them until finding the group again, though.

Even at Medium Load (which is pretty much anything more than bare minimum), the horse still benefits from the Run Feat (x5 movement, retains DEX), so I should catch up fairly quickly.

Before setting off to the barn with bandaged boy in tow, I'll clarify as to the group's planned route, and agree on some bird calls, so it'll be easier to find them and let them know when I'm coming near. Any requests for stuff at the Barn?

"Maybe good leave boy with Hilden & Gunlar, heal wounds in safe...?"

Turning to the boy, I more gently tell him:
"Family live close who take care you. Safer stay them. Boy your age play.
If not see us long time, you ride back town farmer wagon."

Otherwise, I was thinking of tying him down to my horse to keep him out of trouble.
He'd probably like this option better :-).
I guess they will all (H&G) retreat to a neighbor's farm at night...?

If the others want, I can ride back with the boy on my horse, so the rest of us can head to the windmills, and I can catch up with my horse easily, so we wouldn't lose any time...?

Gazing up at the lonely clouds drifting across the sky high above the foothills,
I shrug and say "Let go". Before leaving,
I spit disparagingly into the cave, towards the Blackspears.

If the others are on foot, I'll be leading my horse by it's reins, letting the boy ride if he wants. Armed w/ my Spear, Bow on my back, Backpack on Horse.
(I guess we're saving the secret code magic spear back at the Barn for later)

"What? What he do back there with Cale?
I know Stooch already, you know.
Yalka was one try tell Stooch bad idea to come up here."

do they look magic to Martaug...?

I narrow my eyes at the boy's words.
"Yalka meet Cale. He very wet but act like normal... Crazy head.
No trust him, if he not ask join us, but sneak behind us without offer help family.
Maybe he work with Blackspears or other bandits, maybe not, but not good honor."

Turning my attention back to the boy, I ask "Where Stooch, then?",
thinking of the trouble-seeking boy I thought I had convinced back in town.

I approach the boy after grabbing my Heal Kit.
Assuming nothing I notice dissuades me, I set about to fix up his wound,
trying to think what could have caused it: Perception: 24, Heal: 26 (Nat. 20)

"Where Andolph?", I ask him... ("Who Andolph?", I think) "What hurt you?"

Valdisara, you can Detect EVIL from Sachiko, right?
Could you hold up the bag of water in front of/adjacent to Sachiko,
and see if the level of Evil you perceive changes when looking thru the waterskin, or around it's edges? This would be like Astronomy, I guess.

"Look like lesson not hold..." (for Boy)

"Oh man..."

Yalka raises her brows and shrugs: "Maybe Sa-chiko go first, then?"
I'll tie one of my water-pouches to the rope and lower and raise it, obtaining a "sample" for Val.

"With no other information about the tunnel he was in, we could search for days."
"Yalka think no. Boy say he swim deep, but it not take days find this."

"As for returning to the farm, why would that be of use?"
Well, out-of-character, we could Identify the Spears with NPC-Deserach and figure out how to activate their powers, but Yalka's point wasn't that it would "be of use", just if we don't know what we're doing, we should fall back temporarily until we have a solid plan.

"The gnome said the blackspears were removing the water, and that it would take a month. Assuming they are using the windmill, we could always incapacitate it to slow them down, if needed later."
"A month big time. If we die, then stop wind-mill-thing also give more time to Deputy.
But Yalka not plan die, so no think need do. Better make good plan kill Bandits."

There is no urgency to the "treasure" [i.e., the mace, if it is even there], the party decided to seek it only to aid them in their fight against the wights. Val certainly doesn't think it is necessary to defeat them, although the lack of both the wizard and cleric is going to make things pretty hard.
First, is this a mace or a spoon (or was that just a joke before?)

It seems plausible there's at least "Magic Weapons" (+1, +?) in the cache. Know(Religion) might reveal if that would be powerful vs. Shadows or the Wights themselves... Which would be a reason to retrieve them BEFORE attacking the Blackspears. Yalka doesn't have Know(Religion/Undead), so it's up to the others.

Grunting at Grumblenaught's sentiment, I add:
"Yalka think these Black Spears not worth rotten dog hide when they still alive. But they cowardice and tricks make seem we not fear them attack us now, if they want us get something.
What Valdisara think? Boy Gunlar talk of crates & treasure. Sound like old cache of Bandits?
If alot stuff, many trips of swim to carry all up. Yalka hope other way out..."

Too bad the Blackspears didn't want to chat more.
We could have asked what this Rashka-Tor treasure LOOKS LIKE.
We even could have then avoided bringing that item back up...
But Chris is majorly hinting here. We likely missed out on at least a major power boost from the spears because Deserach didn't fully Identify the powers/activation methods
- If we return to the Barn, maybe we could figure out their activations...?
ALSO: Could Valdisara's (or anybody's) Know:Religion identify Holy Water?
And would water-bags be equal to multiple vials of Holy Water (by weight?)

In any case, we should think about the step AFTER our next step, too.
If we get a bunch of treasure, where do we take it?
Back to town, drawing the Blackspears after us if we have their Big JuJu?
If we focus on attacking the Blackspears, we might go overland to the Windmills if we feel the current tunnel is too dangerous, but we don't really have any guarantee that the Windmills will be a better scenario.
If we have sufficient Holy Water, we should be well prepared (including vs. the Shadow), and I doesn't really look like they're EXPECTING us to come after them, they think we're looking for treasure (which seems correct so far)
I think Martaug's Light SHOULD counter Darkness, since Deserach's did at the Barn (unless this is stronger)

"If we not sure what do now, Yalka think better return Barn."

OK. Whatever the case with Giant Waterbeetles,
we have multiple ways to deal with the underwater caves, that might just be a very quick & convenient one.

...But what do we all think of our situation over-all, and what should our general approach be?
Is pursuing the Blackspears down the tunnel a (remotely) viable option?
What do we think of the Laughing Blackspear's WANTING us to retrieve items "for them"?

...Yalka doesn't really see the urgency to "retrieve" the treasure per se (though I'm curious to see what's down there), though Valdisara COULD make a case for doing so. If we want to confront the Blackspears, either down the tunnel or at the windmills, we should stock up on as much Holy Water as possible, since that's just about the only thing effective vs. the Shadow (without a Cleric).
Can Martaug counter their Darkness with Light, like Deserach did before?

I'd prefer to discuss this more in-character, but most of this is somewhat un-familiar territory for Yalka.
Any of you who are smart/ more familiar with Undead (Know:Religion) feel free to, though... :-)

Breathing slowly, uncomfortable at our situation of non-action and ambiguity,
I whisper to to Valdisara or whoever is nearest by: "Yalka check on horses. Talk more outside."
After a moment, I add "Valdisara have sharp sense for these Undead. Good."
So I'll step outside the cave and around the corner, hopefully more out of earshot of the Blackspears.

If any follow me outside, I'll add:
"Yalka want fight coward bandits who attack barn, but remember Shadow-Creature who weapon not touch.
With Holy Man gone, follow now maybe dangerous and we not win. What you think?"

Actually, if this really is Holy Water (is there ANY way to tell!?), it could be our best weapon against them, if we could fill our water pouches with it, and use it as Holy Water balloon grenades...
It seems questionable to continue pursuing this "treasure" the Blackspears seem happy for us to retrieve for them... Though Valdisara seems the most "authoritative" on it, if it is indeed artifacts of her Church, more or less, she might be able to make use of it in a way to defeat the Undead... ???
If we DON'T pursue the treasure right now, what should we do? Head into the caves after them, or head to the Windmills and try and destroy the pumps? We should probably bring some of this water with us in either of those scenarios...???

If we DO decide to continue pursuing the treasure, I think realistically we need to figure out the division of labor better. I'm the only competent swimmer, enough to be able to haul a non-swimmer along with me. An idea I had was since Martaug's Summoned Wolf hasn't been seen recently, he can actually Summon another creature... Like a (River) Dolphin, which can ferry him or others thru the water at high speed. Since Martaug is already familiar with the water area (as well as the Dolphin thing), it makes sense for him to go down... If Valdisara is most knowledgeable about the loot, we would probably want her down there as well, so perhaps after finding the dry chamber where the stuff is, we could ferry her down there, either by Dolphin, or me swimming her over, or with rope like originally planned. Unless some other reason crops up, I don't think EVERYBODY should plan on going down there at the moment, but could instead serve as look-out against the Blackspears, or even set-up defensive barriers to hamper them?

I *am* curious to find out what other caves are down there (if there's more than the one with treasure), and if there's another exit from there besides coming back up thru the water. Leaving via another exit that the Blackspears aren't watching would seem to be preferrable, but we have no idea about that at this point...

Any other ideas, anyone?

I will make hand signs to Valdisara and the others, pointing to our group and then to where the voices retreated,
and a questioning gesture, Asking whether we should follow them or not?
It's strange they already knew Valdisara's name, so it looks like they have been spying on us somehow.

Hearing the creepily threatening words, I'll crouch down to pick up my bow, aiming my arrow straight down the passageway.
I'll glance over to the Grumble, to see if he's doing likewise, before I let lose: 19 to-hit, 6 dmg (Miss Chance would apply)

Umm... Scratch exploring the underwater part for now, I'm keeping a grip on my Spear.
...Otherwise, I'm standing near the pit edge, delaying action. (My spear able to strike across the pit)

"Show yourself if you not cowards" I call out towards the voice.
Was anyone able to tell if the water below IS Holy Water?

If Martaug wears his armor, then I will also do so. (Leaving Spear, etc at top, on entrance side of shaft)
I will let Martaug lead as he knows the cavern first-hand. We can "light up" once we're in the water.
If Martaug has any trouble swimming, I can pull him along (which slows me down to 30' base movement, but moves MT along)
...Unless Valdisara says anything different...

"If ready, Yalka go swim with Mar-Tog."
Once we're ready, I will strip down, only bringing some knives, my gauntlets,
my rope & grapple, & the bear pelt wrapped tight in the waterproof bag.

Light would be great, just cast it on some piece of each of our clothing.
I checked the Beta, and if you are "trained" in Swimmining you can Take 10 (and the DC is 10 in non-Rough Water),
but since it looks like you don't have 1 rank, you have to roll...
So maybe it'd be best for you to take off all your armor/shield. I think I'd be OK, but I'll do likewise just for flavor.

I think from your last experience, you can pretty well judge how long is half your capacity, so we can turn around before then if need be?
I have more air (CON) than you, AND can swim faster because I'm a Barbarian, so if you DO fail a check or two, I can help by pulling you along faster, making up lost air time, or at least pulling you to safety.

I ask Valdisara again about the Wights (Detect Evil) and if she or anyone can tell if this IS the magic water that keeps away Un-Dead...?

EDIT: Once we set up a rope "trail", I think any non-swimmers can roll CLIMB checks instead of Swim, maybe even @ an easier DC?
(2xCON air limit is the same, of course)

As the sounds of a heaving and floundering Half-Orc emerge from the waters, I peer down again, worried at the state of our companion, who seems like he got in over his head... "Mar-Tog? Everything OK?"

Seeing him shiver in the water, I decide he's probably had enough of the water for this moment, so unless he refuses to leave the water, with Kara's help I'll try and hoist him back up, so we can get him out into the sun to dry off. I'll rush off to where my pack is and retrieve the Bear pelt I have, along with some sleeping linens, to wrap him up warm and dry. Heal Check to disperse non-lethal damage: 21

After he's closer to normal, I'll get as clear a picture of the cave as he can give. (Since you didn't use spoiler that's easy enough ;-))
Hmm... I don't think Martaug is the best of swimmers, and neither is our other Dark-seer (Grumble). Why don't I use one of the sunrods that Deserach handed out to each of us, and swim to wherever Martaug thinks is the best bet? I can bring the bear skin with me wrapped in a waterproof bag to warm up if I reach a dry part.