Wilfredo Santos's page

Also my biggest reason for asking is that if my Paladin (Warrior of the Holy Light) tries to UMD with a scroll defensivly, and he has a attribute of 10 and 0 spellcaster levels in the relevant class he could'nt use anything higher than a 4th level scroll without provoking, regardless of how high his UMD skill check is. Such as a Heal scroll.

I want to make sure I'm doing this right and if nesecsary adjust by picking up feats such as Combat Casting and Uncanny Concentration.

Thanks for your help!

Or do you base the entire process from single roll?

So. To be clear. If you UMD to activate a scroll and you have 0 spellcasting levels you make two checks. One for emulating the spell caster levels and another for using the scroll itself. Possibly a third if you don't have a high enough attribute. Correct?

Furthermore if you use the scroll defensively you would be considered a 0 level caster and not the level you emulated with your UMD for the purpose of the concentration check, correct?

I also understand that activating a magic item and concentrating on doing so without provoking are two different beast. But it could be argued that a spellcaster has as much training in casting in combat as a person that has trained in use magic device.

End of necropost rant.

Sorry about the necropost but I recently ran into this argument with my DM and at the end we both agreed you can cast a scroll defensively as per what was posted above.

As far as what level caster the use magic device person is I disagree that it would be 0 simply because of no levels in a spellcasting class. I found this under the same link as Spell Completion:

"If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell's caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers."

Since a person using use magic device would almost always have 0 levels in a particular spellcasting class (it is primarily a rogue skill after all) you would think that under the skill description it would mention that you must roll for a mishap if you do not meet the level requirements. Even in the case of bards, sorcerers and any other spellcasting class you would still have to be at least equal in level to the spell's caster level, or risk a mishap something not mentioned on the skill.

I know omission does not equal proof. But it makes sense that when you use the Use a Scroll portion of Use Magic Device skill, you are also emulating being of a level that matches the requirements of the scroll. Therefore when you make a concentration check you would use the minimum level required to cast the spell on the scroll as part of your concentration check. Since there no clear ruling that's is how we've chosen to house rule it.

So I'm still not sure this has been clarified. I'm mostly interested in the Interaction between Mythic Paragon (Feat) and Legendary Item (Ex). How do they work together? Does the item benefit from paragon or not and why?

While what's posted here seems to clarify how it works on some things I'm still not sure it clearly answers the question. Can we get possibly get an official ruling?

Sorry about the necro post.

Sorry to necropost but on page 54 1st column 3rd paragraph of the Gods and Magic book it says any person that could make these items could repurpose them to another god or no god at all for 500 GP. As written the first ability can be used by anyone, while the second one only by a worshiper of the specific god.

A cleric of Irori for example with the craft wondrous item feat could have a Robe of the Master of Masters (receiving it's full benefits) as well as a repurposed Pallid Crystal (also receiving full benefits).

I couldn't imagine a paladin or cleric of Iomedae wearing a Demon Mother's Mask thou.

Under Unarmed Srtike for the monk it states "A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons." I think even thou the Caryatid Column's special ability is not an "enhancement" or "improvement", it stands to reason that the monk is using them as a natural attack and not a manufactured weapon.

It could be argued that a monks fist could shatter (Ouch!) but considering the fact that at 3rd level a medium sized monk only does 1D6 damage and the columns have a DR of 5/- I doubt that was the intent of their special ability.

Thanks to any and all that take the time to answer these questions. That been said I've had trouble finding any reference to the following:

First, when creating items that allow you to use metamagic feats the Pathfinder core book says "Using metamagic feats, the caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal" pg.549. There are however some special abilities and feats that allow you to apply the benefit of a metamagic feat without changing the level of the spell (i.e. Healer's Blessing from the healing domain pg.44).

Can items be made using these "pseudo" feats without changing the level of the spell but still get the benefit? (i.e. wand of cure light empowered but only costing 750 gp)

Second, when using Cooperative Casting Crafting (which is mentioned on pg.170 of the Ultimate Campaign book) to create items, can the character with the item creation feat have the person helping meet the level requirements? For example say I have a Sorcerer 9th (with no item creation feats). Her cohort is a Wizard 7th with Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Thru Cooperative Casting Crafting can the Wizard still make armor with a +3 bonus (a 9th level requirement) by using the Sorcerer's level?

It is my understanding of the rules that a crafter with the item creation feat is the only one that can meet the level requirements of the item to be created. The character assisting the crafter can help with any skills, feats and/or spell requirements. Alternatively the crafter can add 5 to the craft DC per requirement not met with the exception of any level requirements.

I need to know because it seems unbalanced that anyone can pick up Leadership and get the benefit of several crafting feats from their cohort at their effective level (as stated above a Sorcerer 9th getting items crafted with a 9th level requirement).

Thanks for any help!

I must apologize. I read the title to the thread "Ask all your questions here" and immediately went into a frenzy typing my questions. I failed to see the smaller "off-topic discussions" until after I sent the above post. I would appreciate if you could at least point me in the right direction. Thanks for your time either way.

Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. That been said I've had trouble finding any reference to the following:

First, when creating items that allow you to use metamagic feats the Pathfinder core book says "Using metamagic feats, the caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal" pg.549. There are however some special abilities and feats that allow you to apply the benefit of a metamagic feat without changing the level of the spell (i.e. Healer's Blessing from the healing domain pg.44).

Can items be made using these "pseudo" feats without changing the level of the spell but still get the benefit? (i.e. wand of cure light empowered but only costing 750 gp)

Second, when using cooperative casting crafting (which is mentioned on pg.170 of the Ultimate Campaign book) to create items, can the character with the item creation feat have the person helping set the level requirements? For example say I have a Sorcerer 9th (with no item creation feats). Her cohort is a Wizard 7th with Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Thru Cooperative Casting Crafting can the Wizard still make armor with a +3 bonus (a 9th level requirement) by using the Sorcerer's level?

Thanks for any help!

Is there any official ruling on this? There are other abilities/feats that have similar effect (i.e. they give you the benefit of a metamagic feat without actually changing the level of the spell). The scope of the spells they usually affect are usually limited, like healer's blessing only affecting cure spells (and not breath of life). If it's in the "grey" then I'll make my own ruling but it would be great to get some developer feedback. Thanks for any help!