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Although that's a good point - you could hog tie the dude in the first round and then coup de grace him the next round...

Can you coup de grace when pinned? I think you need to be helpless to be coup de grace'd and pinned doesn't leave you helpless...

So... Let's say I am a Mythic PC who is at least Tier 2 (and therefore has Amazing Initiative) and the Greater Grapple feat. Let's say I am also under the effect of Mythic Haste (which gives me an extra move action per round). By my way of looking at it, I can:

Step 1) Use amazing initiative to give myself an extra standard action, which I use to initiate a grapple.

Step 2) Then use Greater Grapple to maintain that grapple and immediately pin my opponent with the extra move action from mythic haste.

Step 3) Proceed to use my still-available Full Attack to unload on the poor sod I have just pinned, using a One-Handed or lighter melee weapon, and even getting an extra attack from haste - possibly also using one of the attacks to trip the dude, because, you know, yolo.

Step 4) Still have a swift action to play around with.

Am I wrong?

Really? THE ONE NICE THING MARTIALS GET and people complain??? Do people REALLY hate martials that much...

LOL actually I prefer martial classes myself to the cowardly mage types, but rage cycling is NOT the only nice thing available and I have yet read anyone post anything to CONVINCE me it is not OP.

StreamOfTheSky, the three rage powers you mention are exactly the one's that illustrate my point. Rage cycle with Eater of Magic against a spell/spell-like/supernatural ability to give you 1 saving throw re-roll per round?? That's ridiculous - name any other class/feat/spell/item that gives you even close to that.

Spell Sunder makes Dispel Magic almost obsolete, and has a far higher chance of working - even if it's only for one or two rounds, that's all it takes to kill most things. Monsters that rely on their spell-like/supernatural abilities no longer pose any realistic threat.

And Strength surge? Fear not the Tarrasque with it's dreaded swallow-whole ability, for it faces the almighty rage-cycling barbarian whose CMD is effectively 20 higher than it should be - none can grapple him!

And of course, any rage-cycle-r worth their salt is human with the favoured class bonus to superstition, so that not only does he have a + ridiculous to ALL saving throws against 3/4 of the abilities in the game, he can always stop raging to be hasted, healed and enlarged without making a saving throw.

Need I say more?

I mean.... a half-orc barbarian can't effectively have infinite rage with an endless quiver just by drawing and sundering an arrow each round right?

lol I don't even know what that means. But the question isn't about infinite rage, it's about breaking the game by using powers more often than they were intended. I haven't played those barbarians but I have played with them, both as a GM and a PC, and besides being almost un-killable, they constantly steal the lime-light from every other PC because they're just good at everything - the rest of the party just becomes his back-up band lol

There are a lot of threads here about how to optimize your rage-cycling barbarian, but is there nowhere a discussion of whether or not you should be allowed to play this character in the first place?

I personally find that 'premature' rage cycling (which I define as rage cycling using any other means than the Tireless Rage class ability granted to a 17th level barbarian - of which there are MANY) is overpowered at low and mid levels. It seems to me that rage powers are balanced only when they can be used once per rage (which effectively means once per encounter), at least until higher levels when the class naturally gives it to you.

I know many melee-character fans feel casters are overpowered and any counter-balance a frontliner can get is simple justice, but I don't necessarily agree - I mean an optimized blaster-caster can sure dish out the pain, but will run out of spell slots well before an optimized barbarian will run out of rage rounds (unless rage-cycling multiple times per round for several rounds). Plus rage powers like spell sunder and strength surge that can be reused theoretically at will add a versatility that grants the barbarian nigh invincibility, especially when combined with superstition effectively on a toggle switch.

But maybe I'm just not a very creative player or an inexperienced grasshopper? Anyone else feel the same? Help me love the rage-cycling barbarian...

wand of lesser restoration is a 3 round cast? wow.

Yep. I was a much happier PC before I became aware of that...

But srsly, the rage powers you cited are amongst the most useful effects in the game: spellsunder is extremely versatile and has a high chance of success, especially since you can combine it with strength surge... and speaking of strength surge, don't want to get swallowed whole? Just strength surge and you won't.

Now RAW, entering and exiting rage is a free action... so imagine being able to essentially do these things at will...

Yessir, rage cycling is gooooood

So the community/farming domain dipped cleric that has the heart of a farmer is the barbarian to be afraid of.... the irony.

Good way to keep players behaving round the peon farmers at least, i hear borris the pig farmer is a right nut, and the potatoe farmers have a TERRIBLE temper lol

LOL - little did the PC's realize the peaceful farming community over the hill was the greatest threat the world had ever encountered... :P

Actually, I have changed my mind and now agree with Jayson.

*GASP* Traitor! (jk) :P

But seriously, I find barbarians powerful enough without the advantage of getting a 2 for 1 special on enhancement bonuses - cuz let's be honest, when is a barbarian NOT raging in combat? This 'conditional' modifier will apply 95% of the time.

If the intent of the ability was for it to stack, then why not simply state that it 'gives a raging character a +2 (untyped) bonus to attack and damage rolls while raging'?

Bear in mind this also affects the barbarians ability to overcome damage reduction - he can effectively overcome DR one step ahead of the actual cost of his weapon.

The greatsword's bonus is ACTUALLY +1. Its NORMAL bonus is +1. Both modify the +1 bonus, not the +3 when a condition is met, because +3 is neither its actual bonus or its normal bonus.

I would agree with this interpretation, but Jayson MF Kip provides the most compelling counter-argument: there is no rule explicitly stating you cant't 'double increase' a bonus. I would, however, venture a guess that you enjoy playing barbarians frequently Jayson? ;)

The wording is a bit unclear.
You don't "add" (the usual term) a +2 bonus, but "the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal".

Exactly, the wording is unclear: for example a +1 Bane(Undead) weapon would 'normally' be a +3 weapon against a zombie. But the weapon itself is 'normally' a +1 weapon. But what is 'normal' in a world of magic and monsters? :P

I honestly believe this needs an official ruling to be resolved

I would agree with your ruling Ferka, however I suspect some die-hard Barbarian players will protest violently ;)

I brought the question up with my group last night and the debate was so intense, the GM refused to make a ruling and would defer to what was on the boards... but there's nothing on the boards, so I had to take matters into my own hands. I'm looking forwards to seeing what people have to say.

I apologize if this question has been answered already, but I couldn't find it if it was. I am surprised it isn't, given the plethora of discussion regarding whether or not Bane stacks with itself.

Both the Furious and Bane abilities increase the weapon's enhancement bonus under different circumstances - do these increases stack if both circumstances are met? Such as a raging Barbarian with a +1 Furious Bane(Monstrous Humanoids) Greatsword fighting a Minotaur - would that Greatsword have an effective enhancement bonus of +3 or +5?