beowulf99 wrote:
Only because it doesn't botter you doesn't mean it doesn't botter most people in this threat, there are multiple users that expressed their opinion that the would like for spellstrike provking AoO to be gone, or it quite bothers them that it exist. For I haven't seen an actually good comment for spellstrike to still provoke AoO if it bothers that much, people with good reasons I would like you to explain to me how magus keep up with fighter since I have seen graph and explanation of other people better than me that yes magus will deal more dmg with 1 of his 2 highest lvl shocking grasp than a fighter by little and then get back behind him and other martials when using cantrip. You complained that you read that magus deal less dmg than a fighter, but now you constantly say fighter keeps up with magus while having spells that doesn't deal DMG without actually proving it in any other way, while also complained that people who say magus doesn't keep up with fighter are using white room and actual play is not white room, but when I provided 2 actions per turn to attack average per your adventuring day you said that limiting magus to only 2 actions per turn is discriminatory because of how fighter and ranger works, but I suppose that in combat you will rarely be ably to regularly dedicate 3 actions for attacking, since sometimes you can actually be only left with 1, the reasons I already explained, that would mean magus is in the majority of cases left spellcasting every other turn.
beowulf99 wrote:
Firt don't call this the "worst case scenario as I can think of for the Magus" since ranger and a fighter have only 1d10 without any traits or feats, the same ranger on lvl 8 with twin takedown, animal companion, gravity weapon, mature animal companion, can deal 72dmg on a bad day in span of 2 round 3 action each and give someone else their hunter's edge(for free on higher lvls) making it 78,5 avarage, while magus uses highest lvl shocking grasp and in need of recharg using his 1 (or 2 focus points if you pick the 1st lvl feat) deal 84dmg, for his highest spellslot shocking grasp + his focus spell for extra attack and recharge+ another spellstrike with gouging claw, and if you miss your shocking grasp spellstrike you are f*$@ed while ranger will mentain his dps and get around 78 dmg per round since multiple attacks mean always being closer to avarage dmg. 0. Yea I double/thriple checked my math and I got lvl 20 wrong because I put wrong lvl there Correction: Magus: 148,3
They definitly don't keep up with the fighter in the closes, if they hit with their shocking grasp with their highest spell the diffrence is 15 hit points, on lvl 8. With your highest spell, I will do it with your way and my way on the lvl ma
1 - I will 2 and 3 - It is great how you mentioned that magus not getting 3 actions per turn aka white room makes him less optimal. This way it is more down to earth and realistic since if your dm is putting any tactics to use and set up fights you will rarely get 3 actions every round for damage, and sometimes you will get 1 especially if you play an adventure that f@&!s your action economy over with trips grapples shoves and AoO like Fists of the Ruby Phoenix or encounters enemies like that. Obviously if a fighter or a ranger will deal more DMG just attacking 3 times in a round. That's why I rounded it up to 2 actions per round that can be used for attacks instead of moving, escaping, getting up, flanking etc, it is unrealistic to expect to get an average of 3 turns per round in a day to deal DMG, and I also was generous enough to make magus skip first turn where needs to spend additional action to enter arcane cascade that requires your recent action to be either spell or spellstrike. Yea, I will make another one with spellstrike on max spell lvl with Excel and app screenshot.
4. Honestly, "So neat numbers, showing as close to the worst-case scenario as I can think of for the Magus" When I not only counted arcane cascade for free gave him 2 action to attack per round that is more realistic than 3 action per turn for the entire encounter since this is avarage dmg Fighter and freaking ranger don't have feats enchanting their action economy and damage, I imagine with twin takedown and animal companion ranger would deal a whole more dmg, same goes for fighter that can casually stride twice and then attack twice and have an action left I am not even talking about straight up dmg boost.
HumbleGamer wrote:
It is true that I went with a monk that goes full str, however I also take into account the avarage ac of an enemy, it is cool to deal masive dmg but if you take penalty to hit then the avarage dmg isnt that great, like great weapon master from dnd 5e or why smg from your second strike that takes -5 to hit is not as high as from your first, this is also why fighters who also have 2d12 striking weapon and 4 str would deal more dmg than magus 2d12 4 str + 1 arcane cascade. Ever since you can crit if you roll high, also I used d10 as previously mentioned in span of 2 turns 2 action each
HumbleGamer wrote:
Same principle like last time assuming both are in the stance (magus only loses here if we need to get into stance) Tiger stance Feels pretty bad since on
lvl 6
lvl 8
Monk not only have better action economy, better hp, LEGENDARY AC, but they also have feats that further empower their dmg and action economy, this dmg is monk without those feats Previously ranger didn't use twin takedown that would boost their dmg above monk This doesn't feel fine
beowulf99 wrote:
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
Let me correct my comment since page won't allow me to edit it. Beowulf - This is without any feats weapon traits or builds, it is only class feature Caffeinated Ninja -
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:
Then this is even worse considering that this is the most optimal magus build vs non optimal ranger that can save his 1 action hunters edge since it last forever and if lucky it will last 4 rounds and he can cast it before fight. the numers are run without any feats like double slice power attack or other that boost your actiom economy or dmg, also without weapon traits that give you bonus to hit or more dmg the more times you strike in a turn since that would be more disadvantegous to magus because his feats dont improve neither.Only core class features and runes that you get as soon as possible.
beowulf99 wrote:
2 turns, every class get 2 actions per turn since you won't stay in place every time to attack 3 times, each have reach weapon 1d10 dmg by avarage against cr=lvl Magus uses gouging claw his most dming cantrip and uses arcane cascade, magus 1st round spellstrike, 2nd strike + rechargeRanger uses precision, 1st round hunters edge + strike, 2nd turn two strikes fighter 1st round two strikes, 2nd turn two strikes. lvl 2
lvl 4
lvl 6
lvl 8 - assuming you get flaming 1d6 or any other rune that deals dmg besides wounding and also lvl where you get punished for not executing your rotation of 2 turns
lvl 10 -
lvl 12 - 2 runes that deal 1d6 dmg
lvl 14
lvl 16
lvl 18
lvl 20
If you honestly think that it is fun playing around AoO and not using your main feature that your class is based around, then go and play out some encounters with it, because magus isn't champion nor monk nor investigator his entire stick is striking and using spells to deal dmg or buff himself.
beowulf99 wrote:
I mean, I have wrote it before but I don't know if I got ignored. It is not always about geting disturbed, although enemies with AoO will be mostly bosses that can distrub your spell on 20-30% chance. Its about letting enemy hit you for free while doing your class feature, you don't see ranger getting hit in the face for using hunter's mark, and besides even it it is not 40%, 20% is still a lot since those are with AoO, we don't count the other ones that give you a headache with messing your action economy or making you unable to use spellstrike or wasting your actions for getting up after foe tripped youCatching the bad end of the stick for doing what your entire class and 50% of your feats are build around is kinda bad. Second. Arcane cascade dmg is pitfull in terms of dmg and action economy of magus, sure fighter might not get that +1 to dmg, but they get crits and not missing, other classes get flurry of blows or hunter's mark, Even with this at best you will be a bit behind in dmg than a mediocre/avarage striker (while risking getting hit in the face if enemy have AoO) and without it you are worse fighter, allowing your cantrips to be used as part of melee strike is not a buff since cantrips are worse than just striking for every other class, in span of 2 turns while recharging magus will be behind every other martial, even their spell slots spellstrike aren't that great. Third, draw the lightning requires your fight to last at least 6-7 rounds and you spellstriking every turn to match the dmg output of let's say shocking grasp, while it last 10 turns, It is not optimal, true strike is true strike.. it is better option that most of your spells but it is bounded to 1st lvl spellslot so anyone with arcane spellcasting archetype and 2 feats will get as much use of it as magus.
Verdyn wrote:
Besides the fact that magus is better of attacking instead of using spellstrik up to 3rd lvl it would be more efficient on any other caster, but then we are going with warpriest way where anything to boost is better off being used at other martial if possible
Golurkcanfly wrote:
lvl 12 Magus 2 turns, 1st turn spellstrike with shocking grasp at highest lvl, 2nd turn strike+rechargeFighter attack twice each round diffrence = 7 dmg for magus Magus 2 turn gouging claw spellstrike like the above
Fighter attack 4 times, so he will at least hit, if magus misses spellstrike... well… Golurkcanfly wrote: ... As I discussed, if you spellstrike a strong foethat happens to have AoE you get hit in the face, and he has more than 10% chance to crit you Otherwise, your cantrips are either equall or lagging behind other martials that are strikers
beowulf99 wrote:
Yes I would agree that fighters are kinda busted, and they will be above everyone in terms of DMG, I don't think comparing a fighter as a benchmark is completely fair, but considering that magus spellstrike is 2 action with 1 action recharge they should be close at least in terms of cantrips, but they fall behind other martials like ranger action wise and dmg wise on early lvls. Its so bad that at first 3 lvls you are better of attacking twice during your 2 turns than recharging your spellstrike, you are doing more dmg if you just attack 4 times during 2 turns instead of casting shocking grasp at 2nd lvl and striking+rechargEg, within 2 rounds given 2 actions per each. as a magus you than ranger with your spellstrike and gouging claw, and he doesn't need to recharge unless he wants to pick a new target and doesn't provoke AoO. And it assumes you will at least spellstrike once per 2 turns because otherwise you deal less DMG, while having smaller class hp than him.
My biggest problem with AoO is not that it can disturb your spell (it sucks when it happend if you want to use them to deal dmg instead of buffing yourself and that you want to use them on important things like bosess that can have 25% to crit instead of cr-3 goblin.) But the fact that you allow enemy a free attack, no other class get punished that way for using their main stick like rogue or swashbuckler, on top of that with lvls monsters get anti martial or anti caster stuff. In the end you are working around something that increase with frequency at lvl's goes and want to waste your actions so not only you need to work around something that is your core feature, if you don't use it you are lagging behind other martials and you have less hp.
beowulf99 wrote:
Yea, expect that in a vacuum magus is stronger since you assume the best possible outcome for him and he is kinda build around it, if you take it out of it magus get hit in the face. Like someone before wrote, grapling, AoO can punish magus hardly because it either takes your actions to release yourself from grapple or getting hit in the face. If magus action economy get disturbed, he suffers much more than ranger or a fighter does since his main thing for dealing dmg takes 2 actions and need a reload potentially costing you 3 actions, other strikers don't have that problem and their basic strikes deal more dmg or they have easier access to their dmg ability like a rogue that can just get behind someone, or someone else making enemy flat-footed since it benefits everyone and there are much more options to do so/is easier to do. Since you have played on low lvls and only 1 one-shot where you encountered AoO you may not feel like it matters much.
beowulf99 wrote:
Expect it changes almost notching, anyone can benefit from it and other classes benefit from those things better than magus. If you cast a defensive spell on a magus or fighter, they will benefit equally from it, so notching will change. If the class is designed to be good if they have the right team comp and teammates actively "babysit" magus otherwise you are punished it's not good design, what happens if you don't have other spellcasters, what happens if you don't have champion to shield you, what happens if you don't have a class that mitigate your weakness in your party? Because every other class don't need that, but you suggest that magus does. Picking the right class or build according to your team should reward you, but it shouldn't be required to make class not getting heavy punishment for using its core feature or deciding to be worse martial for the day.I know pathfinder is a teamwork game, but magus on higher lvls shouldn't require others to "babysit" him to be good if they can focus on a fighter to make him the best. beowulf99 wrote:
Expect that by lvl 16 everyone had 3 chances to throw an ability boost at con, and 4 chances to pick toughness and I think all martials will do so, the game is based around this like fundamental runes are, and all of those items can be used to upgrade the class from good to better since everyone can take it and benefit the same from those, but instead it goes from mediocre to decent beowulf99 wrote:
Scroll of mirror image, you mean it being used by only 2 hybrid studies that can do that without losing 2 to 3 actions like laughing shadow and staff magus? Because I see some problems with shield magus, two handed weapon magus and starlit span.Another take is for eg. scroll of false life is usless to iron magus and so other spells for other traditions, you have to regularly pay for it and upgrade it otherwise it quickly loses its usefulness in a fight, and dare I say that fighter or champion with trick magic item feat that buff himself beforehand or even durring a fight since him losing his 3rd or 2nd attack doesn't matter as much will get more from casting false life no matter what build he does and mirror image since his ac with plate will be better and he wil have bulwark.
beowulf99 wrote:
It is not exactly about disrupting your spell, sure it is a threat for your limited slots and when it happens it usually will be done by boss that can crit you on 15-16, and this is the kind of monster you want to use your biggest guns on. Unfortunately I didn't have spell slots left, but we were fighting a boss that could do that, crit me or others on 16-17, it quickly downed my teammates around 4 times, with unlucky dice we managed to kill it, but it is good example of magus being downgraded to worse fighter or being punished by giving enemy free attack that have 20-25% chance to crit me, disrupt my spell and knock me out, and around 70% to hit me.But you are you being punished for? For using your core class feature?
But magus is supposed to be up close unless you are starlit span subclass,
beowulf99 wrote:
It may not happen often, but when it does, it will hit you like a train. Being 8hp medium armor magus against AoO that can reach you while you cast spell strike means you will either have to
All the options above suck. It's like telling rogue 30% of the time you can't deal precision dmg to an enemy unless he want to provoke AoO and potentially cancel his attack, or palladin that they can't use their reaction on 30% of enemy'es strikes (but they at least have legendary proficiency in heavy armor and more hp than you). Not to mention someone already proposed that someone who want's to play magus could be better of playing summoner or fighter/magus archetype since strike + EA can deal more dmg than gouging claw spellstrike early to mid game and fighter even if once per fight can deal more DMG than you, even if you spend all your spell slots on (eg) shocking grasp fighter DMG will be a bit lower and will eventually surpass you pretty fast and won't provoke AoO every turn. My counterpoint is that you can cast self buffs that only works on the caster like draw the lightning giving you additional 1d12, but with magus archetype fighter will eventually get them, the only hope is that 7th lvl spell will be good enough. It may not be the best comparison since fighter is a fighter, but fighter shouldn't be better at doing other class job like champion reaction, ranger hunter's edge or rogue sneak attack
graystone wrote:
Iron magus with reach weapon can cast enlarge on himself with his conflux spells. But that is only one of the studies, and you are sacrificing one of the slots that you could have usen on true strike + your max lvl shocking grasp for DMG (e.g). Or it requires other party member to be able to enlarge you or someone using scrolls and wasting their action economy taking care of you.
HumbleGamer wrote:
Those granted from your hybrid studies? Yes, but force fang and others you get from class feats does trigger AoO
Good thing that recharging your spellstrike don't trigger AoO.
The-Magic-Sword wrote:
Well I guess now there is no need for any calss that is mix of other 2 classes. Say goodbye to magus, shaman, swashbuckler, investigator, hunter, arcanist, brawler, bloodrager.
We could potentially get swordmage in the future, but in heavy modified way as swordmage is from WoC and its pretty unlikely that one will take something away from other. If you want sword mage then you will have unfortunetly wait for it.
Also if we could ask for more than 2 trained skills + int and arcana ?
I men come on men, class that should have higher int will have less than other class with int mod -1, isn't it wrong ?
Don't know if I got in time but Suggestion and explanation why removing "spell need to target one creature or object/target" from spell strike can be benefitial to how magus play, also changing how magus will pick spells.
Let's take teleport for example, you target yourself by imbuing yourself with a spell what lead to you being teleported, if it would be haste you need to be 1 of possible targets. Chain lightning, target of your weapon becomes first target of spell if spell can target multiple creatures. Versatility, is that when melee you will be limited to options who you can hit and if multiple enemies are close enough for you to risk casting spell targeting 3 creates or use shocking grasp for example or vampiric touch. If it would be haste or another spell that would target friendly creatures it is the same, you have to be one or first target of your spell. Being in first line and with limited spell economy you can chose to buff yourself along your teammates or let other spellcaster handle it while you be more focused on dealing dmg or surviving. As Melee you would want to chave some options, Using fireball is Kamikaze and buffing aren't that worthy if you need to keep concentration spells and front line don't come very well together, but are always a choice for something,
One of restrictions that can help balance it out is that you would need to hit with your spell strike, if you miss then spell is lost. Its stupid one but currently its only fair when melee synthesis miss then they lose spell. But if we get fix on spell strike letting us hold spells for rounds then instead of that letting shooting star discharge their spell when they miss is fair enough IMO. But feel fre to critic Second one is leaving "one target or creature when spell deal dmg or require attack roll" on shooting star, but that would be lame, but yet again you could use some kind of ammunition that deal non lethal dmg as arrows without tip or something like that when casting buff on your party, of course that would be poor choise because you should be more on distance side (currently you are fighting along side other casters what's kinda lame, you should be able to attack from bigger distance like 30ft more at cost of something) Its just idea but letting it life can benefit players and magus class in an interesting way and don't force pressure on some players to go spell strike with shocking grasp like in previous edditions. And biggest benefit are feats, 2 of them require you for it to be attack spell that deals elemental dmg, 4 of them are on the same lvl and 3 are tied to you synthesis, so its more like you benefit from 2 feats, slide casting already can do it with 4 specific feats that only work with it and some of them being able to be use by monk feat.
richienvh wrote:
Well, instead changing str/dex to in durring spell strike why not att it as bonus to hit considering you already have sacrificed 3 actions to hit and mostly you won't get away with mor than 3 int unless there will be synthesis that focus on int
Yea, but you can convert int into other things, profficiency you will get no matter what and they are usefull when it comes to saving throws, In a way even wizards with better proff have problem with enemies passing sv or hitting them with a spell but anyway. Int could be used in Synthesis like raise a thome, or be part of spell strike, or let you use some powerfull abilities limited times, or even feats that would give you more wizard abilities would require int mod to be higher.
Honestly, spell roll/dc portion of spell strike, you are actually better of trying to have 18 in str and a bit more survalibility, as it will be easier to crit with weapon that you have runes and better proff and increase success of spell roll by 1 lvl rather than being squishy and trying your chance that you succeed on both rolls for spell strike. Any spell you would want to cast outside of spell strike would be some sort of buff, I would leave fireball spells be used by other casters that can alter it to some degree making it bigger or from larger distance or benefit more from casting it. They also have better proff than magus and more spells.
Let's take teleport for example, you target yourself by imbuing yourself with a spell what lead to you being teleported, if it would be haste you need to be 1 of possible targets. Chain lightning, target of your weapon becomes first target of spell if spell can target multiple creatures. Versatility, is that when melee you will be limited to options who you can hit and if multiple enemies are close enough for you to risk casting spell targeting 3 creates or use shocking grasp for example or vampiric touch. If it would be haste or another spell that would target friendly creatures it is the same, you have to be one or first target of your spell. Being in first line and with limited spell economy you can chose to buff yourself along your teammates or let other spellcaster handle it while you be more focused on dealing dmg or surviving. As Melee you would want to chave some options, Using fireball is Kamikaze and buffing aren't that worthy if you need to keep concentration spells and front line don't come very well together, but are always a choice for something,
One of restrictions that can help balance it out is that you would need to hit with your spell strike, if you miss then spell is lost. Its stupid one but currently its only fair when melee synthesis miss then they lose spell. But if we get fix on spell strike letting us hold spells for rounds then instead of that letting shooting star discharge their spell when they miss is fair enough IMO. But feel fre to critic Second one is leaving "one target or creature when spell deal dmg or require attack roll" on shooting star, but that would be lame, but yet again you could use some kind of ammunition that deal non lethal dmg as arrows without tip or something like that when casting buff on your party, of course that would be poor choise because you should be more on distance side (currently you are fighting along side other casters what's kinda lame, you should be able to attack from bigger distance like 30ft more at cost of something) Its just idea but letting it life can benefit players and magus class in an interesting way and don't force pressure on some players to go spell strike with shocking grasp like in previous edditions. And biggest benefit are feats, 2 of them require you for it to be attack spell that deals elemental dmg, 4 of them are on the same lvl and 3 are tied to you synthesis, so its more like you benefit from 2 feats, slide casting already can do it with 4 specific feats that only work with it and some of them being able to be use by monk feat.
If synthesis would be buffed in a way they deserve to be a stance (and interact with spell strike) then I think its good.
I would also like to have choice between str/dex/int as primaly, even having 12 or 14 in int is not good option, You are better of with str/dex, and then full con. Even investigator have better use of int in his melee attack rolls than magus. Add int to magus dmg while using spell strike or attack roll to hit and take away his weapon mastery or something
VictorFafnir wrote:
Make int mod matter, make me don't ignore int, why shouldn't I just have 0 int mod and build to be pure martial ? Someone proposed idea that we could remore limitation of spell strike "Spell have to target one creature or object" I want for example teleport and stab someone while benefit from my spell strike bonuses, or cast haste on myself and others by imbuing spell into my body. Why shouldn't I, its not like other classes can't do that. (Also we need some feats that are martial-fighter or wizard-related, having too much feats that base on spel strike cna backfire, martial caster is very good example of it. Sustaning steel having ability to call shield as free action is nice touch if we are talking to make it better, Other than that I am giving my hopes into developers hands Finally but perhaps not last, give us more trained skills, we won't have inteligence of a wizard on magus without good reason, like being able to replace our attack weapon abiltity to int (doesn't change dmg abiltity of weapon like str)
Lets also think about Synthesis that doesn't restric you to your weapon allowing you to have sustaning steel on 1h weapon ? How about slide casting on 2h weapon.
Okey so quick list:
- More 1 action cantrips and spells - Let have magus some kinds of bonus when having high int, its not usefull at all and honestly I can see people just ignoring it to be full fighter as you can get cricticals easier. - Spell strike, either be it part of casting spell or let us deliver spells by weapon attack roll, and let us hold it for few rounds - Give use 2/2/2 system or 3/3. 2/2 can work but it is kinda pain in the ass, limiting our spell, limiting whenever we can cast boost spells on ourself like haste without feats, Temperans idea with spell strike is nice. It just feels like they should have a little bit more spells but at the same time not being a full or half caster. Current idea with limited spells that grow in power is good. - Synthesis, make it a little bit powerfull and give them some kind of lvl progression (not much like little bust, sustning steel being able to hold his tm hp for 1 or more rounds,) Rebuild shooting star, currently taking archetype is better than being magus and shooting star synthesis)
- Lvl Progression, magus have only 4 spells and some good feats, but his on his own he doesn't rly have anything on his own, that's why progression synthesis can be nice, and will not make class overpower. - Rising shield, This one is special because none of synthesis can rly benefit out of it, i suggest making it new synthesis like in
- Magus potency, progression is slow but I don't know if it can even be combined with already enchanted weapon so on 5th lvl you can have weapon +1 and add amgic potency making it +2, maybe combine it with runic impression like Temparans suggested but anyway. - Magus having spell mastery 6 lvls after weapon mastery, its rly too late, at last make it 4 lvls or something. Double Spellstrike, yea... lets just change it. Also if magus will be martial focused class let us have 1st lvl feat. - Feats,
Spirit sheat - it would be nice if this wouldnt be one of 3 feats that is usable only by slide casting, and letting us hold to 2 bulk or more, it is okay that you can draw from it as part of casting but I would like to see it being drawn as part of attack with weapon that discharge your striking spell, (and letting us use spell strike on weapons in spirit sheats) this way when we hold striking spell it still work Bspell Strikers - Very nice Steady Spellcasting - Don't rly have solution but I would like it to be on 2nd lvl or be a bit better. Striker's scroll - Its nice if you want to go with archetype or have a lot of spells, its 1 free spell at cost of gold or many in form of arrows can be usefull with a lot of low lvl spells. Capture spell - Is good, it would be nice to know what spell is being casted at us (in some fort of spell check according to spell) But I guess it would make it kinda overpower, but considering it only work with slide casting. Comet spell - Very cool idea, I would only at explotion around target (5 or 10ft) that doesn't affect said target. Healer's Steel - Very nice feat that I love. Portal Slide - Even if portal is sligthly usefull in some situation it still need to be improved or remaked IMO Preternatural parry - Yet another feat that currently only works for Slide casting synthesis or arcane fist, is that 4 if I count correctly ? Its of course good option and solid feat but let other synthesis get some love :(
After reading this it feels like it is kinda gathered knowledge and potential improvments from this forum that we all want. You could say this post speak for most of us, and I belive it will be good source of feedback for devs. Especailly that you spend more than one or two fights as a magus also having 2 other characters to compare to. My experience was kinda the same, especially with higher lvl oponents. Good job ! Spell strike should be improved version of Eldritch Shot in 2 actions and then letting us decide whenever we want to attack on the same turn or afterwards (withing few rounds).
Martialmasters wrote:
I disagree and agree at the same time. Yes you can't please everyone because there always be person wo will be salty about anytching because they want and will be salty. Or just slightly don't like what it is ( me with dnd5e and how basic and limiting it is)However it doesn't matter Magus can't be better than it is already, Trying to force magus into focus spells(that would work better with Kineticist) or other sheningas is taking away from what it essencially is, Class are suppoused to be simillar to 1e where the basic and core of class is, you can't rly call witch a witch if you remove hexes and patron and enchange it with something else.
Midnightoker wrote:
Thanks ! :D. I love magus and I hope it will be become great class, they already have gorgeous ideas with shooting star and sustaning steel(which is actually usefull when you play it) but it need a little bit polishing. About Synthesis, I worked around idea that in future we will at last get some more cantrips and spells that are 1 action as message is, and spell strike will be more optimized, or similar to nr.1 idea. I think spell strike that additionally give strong bonuses will make players to kinda "Force" to use it not letting them be just a warrior that can cast spell or 2 like (fighter/wizard).
I think leaving it as part of spell strike will give it a little bit of balance and allow synthesis to be a little bit stronger. Especially when you remove need for spell to be "target one target" from spell strike allow you to use some other spells, maybe like fireball (shooting dude with an arrow that create big explosion) or buffing/CC ones.
Yea, Spirith sheathe right now in playtest is only usefull for Slide casting magus and in some cases for Shooting star, now it is more useable for other synthesis than Slide casting which already have 3 more feats than other 2 synthesis. And it is equall to quick draw if not a little bit weaker. To be honest I think we all like the idea for spellstrike to hold charge, I have seen a lot of posts doing something similar in one way or another,
I am guessing they are now focused more on summoner as he will not recive as big changes as magus in the future. I imagine (and hope) they will brain storm magus from lvl 1 to lvl 20 taking our ideas and posts in consideration. But I agree at last some message telling us what they already decided to change would be nice
Hello there, I am not be best theory crafter, nor developer but I am a player who love magus, and after playing it and reading post on forum I have gathered some ideas. Not only Spell strike feels kinda weak (as many other people pointed it out)but also Synthesis feels like "your class is weak so there is 3 ways to make it less suck " Instead of "there are 3 ways to make your character more epic" And it what Pizo is showing is character that is fighter first and caster second being worse option than fighter with wizard archetype yet giving us feats that only focus with magic together with specialization giving us mastery with weapons before spells (master spellcasting at lvl 19 is so late) Also please don't take away sustaning steel please, I love this idea more than I love my kids that I don't have !! I will try to update this post according to feedback and previous version will be archivised
I gathered my ideas in document but I will write them down here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WUY5_ZwiTFRHNpN-MFOnY5-1pc612lEAv3 xnOFiHfko/edit?usp=sharing) Spell strike ideas -
Idea nr.1 - One I think is best
(Optional 1 - Attack draw some power from spell giving your weapon bonus equal to your int mod)
Idea nr.2
I tihnk it is resonable to to give magus 6 spell slots because of how spells are valiuable to this class in form of 2/2/2. It is reasonable balanced Synthesis
1 lvl = As free action you can increase effective range of spell by 30ft only if it is used with striking spell (for instance, if stored spell normaly have range of 30ft you can attack from range of 60ft and spell will be delivered) You can do it times equal to your int mod min 1 (or twice your int mod, let me know what's more balanced) Because of how this work and most players will play with bow or something like that. Distance is key of this Synthesis.
6 lvl
Option 2 - You are able to imbue 2 projectiles with your magic at the same time, you have -2 to hit, if at last one projectile hit your target your spell is discharged. If both hit you can decided which creature is affected by your spell (you can do it times your int mod) One of those options can be made into feat but without limitation of usage by your int. Slide casting -
6 lvl = After you hit enemy with your attack you can add your spell lvl to your dmg you can do it times half your int mod
Sustaning steel - 1 lvl = your temporar hp stay for rounds equal half your int mod (it already have more usage because of 2 bonus spells and it can give you one more round with hp, having this also affects your decision making, if you don't get hit you can either waste your temporar hp by casting another spell or do something else during next round. If you decide to don't go with 2/2/2 I advice on giving x3 multiplier for spells and 1,5 for cantrips or focus spells 6lvl = You can cast shielda as free action if you used striking spell Feats so far 2 lvl
10 lvl
That's all so far, I am wating for feedback what should be changed or if my ideas were good or bad. |