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It gets worse at higher levels by a good bit.First, the average amount of creatures with AoO increases immensely (1-5 is about 7%, 16-20 is 30%), then those creatures get more nasty abilities attached to their strikes that can be a lot more harmful to your character and disrupt you much more reliably.
Sure, in a vacuum a Magus with no attempt at using any sort of defensive spell will probably suffer. But the reality just doesn't pan out that way.
Between any defensive spells you decide to prepare yourself and use to defend yourself and any abilities used by your allies, you have more options to deal with the enemies additional options the higher level you go. It is a two way arms race. This could be as simple as having a friendly bard throw out a timely Synaptic Pulse to strip away the opponents reaction or a friendly Champion who throws their champ reaction at you. Maybe you aren't the biggest threat or that same Champ moved around the foe to flank and baited out that AoO.
And by level 16, you have had 3 chances to throw an ability boost at Constitution, and at least 4 chances to take Toughness. Not to mention Belt of Good health or any of options to pad your HP with Temp HP, like super cheap scrolls of False Life.
So yeah, if you decide to throw caution to the wind and only build for pure spellstrike with no nuance, and you never act with your allies covering you with abilities and spells, then you will suffer more and more the higher level you get to. But if that's how you play, then you will ALWAYS have more issues with higher level enemies no matter what you build.
You shouldn't be asking for Spellstrike to not trigger. You should be asking how you can mitigate the fact that it does. And there are plenty of easily accessible options.
Something as simple as a 12 gp scroll of Mirror Image can give you a decent, if relatively short lived, defense against AoO's on your way in to pound the enemy.
TL;DR: Yeah, the enemy gets tougher the higher level you go. But So Do You.
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It gets worse at higher levels by a good bit.First, the average amount of creatures with AoO increases immensely (1-5 is about 7%, 16-20 is 30%), then those creatures get more nasty abilities attached to their strikes that can be a lot more harmful to your character and disrupt you much more reliably.
Sure, in a vacuum a Magus with no attempt at using any sort of defensive spell will probably suffer. But the reality just doesn't pan out that way.
Between any defensive spells you decide to prepare yourself and use to defend yourself and any abilities used by your allies, you have more options to deal with the enemies additional options the higher level you go. It is a two way arms race. This could be as simple as having a friendly bard throw out a timely Synaptic Pulse to strip away the opponents reaction or a friendly Champion who throws their champ reaction at you. Maybe you aren't the biggest threat or that same Champ moved around the foe to flank and baited out that AoO.
And by level 16, you have had 3 chances to throw an ability boost at Constitution, and at least 4 chances to take Toughness. Not to mention Belt of Good health or any of options to pad your HP with Temp HP, like super cheap scrolls of False Life.
So yeah, if you decide to throw caution to the wind and only build for pure spellstrike with no nuance, and you never act with your allies covering you with abilities and spells, then you will suffer more and more the higher level you get to. But if that's how you play, then you will ALWAYS have more issues with higher level enemies no matter what you build.
You shouldn't be asking for Spellstrike to not trigger. You should be asking how you can mitigate the fact that it does. And there are plenty of easily accessible options.
Something as simple as a 12 gp scroll of Mirror Image can give you a decent, if relatively short lived, defense against AoO's on your way in to pound the enemy.
TL;DR: Yeah, the enemy gets tougher the higher level...
What is the end gain for putting in all this work though? A Fighter is more protected, does more average damage, and could also benefit from the same buffs. The Ranger and Rogue are just straight up doing more damage with less risk. So what role is the melee Magus actually supposed to excel at?
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Being a gish : much better than a caster at Striking AND being able to cast high-level spells (and everything that comes with having such an ability).
I do not think casters are weak for mostly being able to cast spells.
The Magus is not a real caster. You'd never replace a Wizard or Bard with one because they have near zero utility and can't even compete just comparing highest level slots to highest level slots. They are a jack of two trades saddled with limitations that ensure they don't excel at either of them.
Literally, what outside of spell striking do they do that a Fighter with a magical dedication can't do?
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No and you would never try to. But what can a magus do besides spellstrike that a fighter with magical dedication can't? Spellstrike plus take a magical dedication and get more mileage out of it than that fighter. Since the utility and attack spells become useful.
If you're doing that then you're likely going Starlit Span so you can use those spells without provoking. So where does that leave the gimped melee Magus?
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Those high-level spells I mentioned. Oh and they can get a magical dedication on top of it too, just like the Fighter.
Haven't you been suggesting they use those spells defensively? So do they actually have 4 spells or do they have 1 or 2 and a couple of required self buffs?
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There are a variety of options available to grant you additional spell slots, either for defensive purposes, or for specific use with Spellstrike, freeing up your slots for defensive or utility spells.
Fused Staff let's you fuse a staff into your weapon, and cast from that staff as a part of spellstrike when said staff is in weapon form. This is Awesome for an Inexorable Iron magus to flesh out their spell options.
Striker's Scroll let's you spellstrike with a scroll that is attached to your weapon like a Talisman.
The Studious Spell feature grants you bonus spell slots specifically for utility and defense depending on your Hybrid Study.
Then you have equipment solutions like the Endless Grimoire that grants you a bonus spell slot just for preparing from it or the classic Rings of Wizardry that grant extra slots as well.
You are not really limited to 4 spell slots for very long. You have options.
Edit: Of note, NONE of these options stop you from taking a spellcasting dedication and getting even more spell slots from that.
Sure, a Wizard using a Ring of Wizardry and Endless Tome and a Spellcasting Dedication will have even more slots than the Magus, but that doesn't mean the Magus using those options don't have enough slots to prepare some utility and defensive spells.
If that is how you think, just how many Spellstrikes are you really figuring you are going to perform in a day? How many slots would be "enough"?
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Those high-level spells I mentioned. Oh and they can get a magical dedication on top of it too, just like the Fighter.Haven't you been suggesting they use those spells defensively? So do they actually have 4 spells or do they have 1 or 2 and a couple of required self buffs?
No. I was thinking of using scrolls to get defensive spells like Blur.
The fused staff feat isn't nearly as good as I thought when I first looked at it sadly. It can only be used for spellstrike spells. And your staff spells are generally going to be -2 from your top spells. A -2 damage spellstrike is basically the same as using a cantrip, only a couple more points of damage.For example, (Example, lvl 4 shocking grasp, at lvl 11, assuming you have a custom staff with one)
Striking with a 1d10 (Inexorable loves reach) at lvl 11 is 2d10+5+2+2d6 = 25. Your shocking grasp is 5d12 or 32.5, total spellstrike is 57.5
But using a cantrip at that level is 6d6+4 or 25, total spellstrike is 50. So for a lvl 8 feat, you get 7.5 extra damage at lvl 11, once a day.
It just isn't very good. And you can't use it to cast buff spells or the like, since they can't be spellstruck with. Well you can, but have to use an action to shift the staff, and we know magi don't have those to spare (action to shift, action to shift back)[/qoute]
Depends on what level you "currently" are, but yeah, Staves lag behind at least one spell level, and that can obviously be made worse as you continue leveling. The Magus loves a Personal Stave though for this purpose as it more easily keeps parity (at the cost of cash).
Striker's Scroll let's you spellstrike with a scroll that is attached to your weapon like a Talisman.I like this better! But it doesn't stack with the flaming heart spellheart, which I love since it lets me be a flaming sword magus.
But, same as above, if you want it to be high enough level to matter this gets freaking expensive. Particularly as magus doesn't have as much free cash as casters since you have to keep a weapon upgraded.
Don't forget that you can still throw that Spellheart on your armor. I was under the assumption that the extra damage for casting a spell from a spellheart wouldn't count for that Spellstrike. Has this been clarified anywhere? I suppose the first thing you do is cast a spell, but the spell doesn't take effect until after you strike.
Edit: I guess the extra damage is through your next turn either way, but still that single extra die doesn't feel that worth it to me.
As to the money issue, yeah, belt's can get tight for a Magus, but it isn't asking for so much cash that it can't fill most of it's needs with average wealth by level.
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. . . This could be as simple as having a friendly bard throw out a timely Synaptic Pulse to strip away the opponents reaction or a friendly Champion who throws their champ reaction at you. Maybe you aren't the biggest threat or that same Champ moved around the foe to flank and baited out that AoO.
And by level 16, you have had 3 chances to throw an ability boost at Constitution, and at least 4 chances to take Toughness. Not to mention Belt of Good health or any of options to pad your HP with Temp HP, like super cheap scrolls of False Life. . .
Yeah! Because all classes should be designed around what you could... maybe... do with your friends' help or ability boosts... or gold spent... or unicorn farts...
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. . . Then you have equipment solutions like the Endless Grimoire that grants you a bonus spell slot just for preparing from it or the classic Rings of Wizardry that grant extra slots as well. . .
Yeah! Because all classes should be designed around what they could buy... and dragon burps too!
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Except you know they are though, right? Inspire Courage doesn't do much in a vacuum. Champion reactions aren't strong when the Champion stands by themselves. It's much easier for a rogue to flank with a partner than by themselves.The game is built on the premise of players working together.
You don't need any investment or incur any risk to use inspire courage. Nor do you force allies to do the same so it functions. Same for champion's reaction. The rogue, which isn't exactly a stellar class to begin with, at least has gang up which removes any need for your allies to play differently so that your frail chassis isn't wildly out of position just to have a flank.
Probably also shouldn't phrase it like it's wildly unlikely that enemies won't naturally attack squishier targets than the champion or that you have a party where somebody is delusional enough to play a rogue as the only melee martial.
Working together should elevate the team, not merely bring a 3rd rate class up to par.
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This is a weird turn for this thread to take. But here we go!
Yeah! Because all classes should be designed around what you could... maybe... do with your friends' help or ability boosts... or gold spent... or unicorn farts...
Yeah! Because all classes should be designed around what they could buy... and dragon burps too!
Yeah, they should be. And they are. We know this, because of the way that bonuses don't stack. We know that Paizo designed Inspire Courage to be a Status Bonus so that it doesn't stack with other Status Bonuses like Heroism. Entire class mechanics are devoted to teamwork, like the Good Tenet Champ Reactions that would be literally useless without nearby allies to use them on. A solo bard could use Inspire Courage on themselves, sure. But Inspire Courage really takes off when you have allies to take advantage of it. The more allies, the larger the impact.
If you don't design classes and abilities with teamwork in mind or what you could boost or buy, then you end up with more extreme edge cases, whether over or under tuned.
No class should be designed solely based on what it is capable of on its own, because in the lion's share of situations they won't be on their own. So why design and balance a class based on the least likely situation in a teamwork based game, in a teamwork based hobby?
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Yeah, they should be. And they are. We know this, because of the way that bonuses don't stack. We know that Paizo designed Inspire Courage to be a Status Bonus so that it doesn't stack with other Status Bonuses like Heroism. Entire class mechanics are devoted to teamwork, like the Good Tenet Champ Reactions that would be literally useless without nearby allies to use them on. A solo bard could use Inspire Courage on themselves, sure. But Inspire Courage really takes off when you have allies to take advantage of it. The more allies, the larger the impact.
If you don't design classes and abilities with teamwork in mind or what you could boost or buy, then you end up with more extreme edge cases, whether over or under tuned.
No class should be designed solely based on what it is capable of on its own, because in the lion's share of situations they won't be on their own. So why design and balance a class based on the least likely situation in a teamwork based game, in a teamwork based hobby?
What teamwork does the Fighter need to get +2 to hit? What does the Champion need to get their Legendary armor proficiency? Does the Barbarian need a team around them to Rage? I could go on but none of these melee classes suffer from trying to use their core abilities against most foes. There is a single Barbarian subtype that suffers against flying foes, but that isn't the baseline for the class.
For Magus there is one usable subclass and the rest are all just bad melee stapled to a bad caster. You shouldn't punish a class for attempting to do the one narrow thing that, even if done perfectly, doesn't elevate it above any of the core classes. The only useful thing a Magus can do is fish for crits and hope to spike their dice, but hey, if Paizo doesn't fix the Psychic and the Alchemist at least Magus will have two other classes to party up with that won't completely overshadow it.
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What teamwork does the Fighter need to get +2 to hit? What does the Champion need to get their Legendary armor proficiency? Does the Barbarian need a team around them to Rage? I could go on but none of these melee classes suffer from trying to use their core abilities against most foes. There is a single Barbarian subtype that suffers against flying foes, but that isn't the baseline for the class.
A fighter doesn't need to do anything to get their +2 to hit. A Magus doesn't need to do anything to spellstrike. But a fighter benefits from supporting abilities and team tactics just like a Magus benefits from them.
For Magus there is one usable subclass and the rest are all just bad melee stapled to a bad caster. You shouldn't punish a class for attempting to do the one narrow thing that, even if done perfectly, doesn't elevate it above any of the core classes. The only useful thing a Magus can do is fish for crits and hope to spike their dice, but hey, if Paizo doesn't fix the Psychic and the Alchemist at least Magus will have two other classes to party up with that won't completely overshadow it.
That is a fine opinion you have there and you are perfectly entitled to it. It definitely doesn't match up with my opinion though. I have so far tried out 2 of the Magus Subclasses, Inexorable Iron and Twisting Tree and I have had success with both and never felt punished for using Spellstrike.
The Magus isn't punished for performing spellstrike. They are getting quite the benefit actually. My Strength focused Inexorable Iron Magus can leverage his key stat to hit accurately with both his weapon and spells, when he spellstrikes. No need to build MAD and try to bump two different stats. I've played a crit fishing pick fighter, and I can confidently say that I prefer the feel of the Magus. And so far it has been about as effective.
And the Magus will have tricks that no min/maxed crit fishing fighter will be able to pull off without significant investment in archetypes. I can make myself Fly for instance.
So yeah, saying that the Magus is under par is certainly an opinion.
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A fighter doesn't need to do anything to get their +2 to hit. A Magus doesn't need to do anything to spellstrike. But a fighter benefits from supporting abilities and team tactics just like a Magus benefits from them.
The difference being that a Fighter doesn't risk 25% of their best attacks just for existing and trying to use basic class features.
That is a fine opinion you have there and you are perfectly entitled to it. It definitely doesn't match up with my opinion though. I have so far tried out 2 of the Magus Subclasses, Inexorable Iron and Twisting Tree and I have had success with both and never felt punished for using Spellstrike.
What levels have you played at and which types of enemies have you faced? I'm just interested in knowing if you've played against a lot of foes that can punish spellstriking.
The Magus isn't punished for performing spellstrike. They are getting quite the benefit actually. My Strength focused Inexorable Iron Magus can leverage his key stat to hit accurately with both his weapon and spells, when he spellstrikes. No need to build MAD and try to bump two different stats. I've played a crit fishing pick fighter, and I can confidently say that I prefer the feel of the Magus. And so far it has been about as effective.
Effective as compared to just a single crit-focused fighter build? Effective versus a Starlit Span build? Effective as a frontline character or as a flanking melee DPS? We need to know what your actual claim is before we can judge if you've succeeded or not.
And the Magus will have tricks that no min/maxed crit fishing fighter will be able to pull off without significant investment in...
To use those tricks the Magus is either using 25% of their spell slots or giving up other useful equipment for wands/staves/scrolls which the Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, et al. do not have to do to match the Magus in damage output.
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Man, I'm so glad everyone on this thread is providing anecdotes from their own play experiences, instead of talking out their butts. /s
Reminds me of the very early "Kineticist Sucks" threads.
I suspect spellstrike got balanced around very optimal groups that use aid for +3/4, true strike etc.
I find aid funny. It is inarguably insanely powerful at high levels (seriously +3/4 is nuts) but also something I have seen someone use maybe once, total, in my many games.
It must also have been balanced around the Magus always having their perfect 3-action loop up and foes never doing anything silly like focusing the guy who's pumping their sword up with spells. If the enemy decides they want to shut down a Magus the Magus has very little ability to counter that.
Yeah! Because all classes should be designed around what you could... maybe... do with your friends' help or ability boosts... or gold spent... or unicorn farts...Except you know they are though, right? Inspire Courage doesn't do much in a vacuum. Champion reactions aren't strong when the Champion stands by themselves. It's much easier for a rogue to flank with a partner than by themselves.
The game is built on the premise of players working together.
I don't think those are great comparisons though. IC and a Champion's Reaction generally work with anyone. Yeah, they're teamwork oriented, but they also work under a very broad number of circumstances.
By contrast, the suggestions that person were replying to were all fairly specific in terms of what they required.
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First, anecdotal evidence and background for my opinions.
My first magus (inexorable iron) build is currently level 2, heading to level 3 in a biweekly game, with only a few combats under his belt, so not much experience there to be fair. But even at low level, I've had a few key spellstrikes, and usually don't even need to spellstrike to be effective. Just the ability to have my own buffs like Magic Weapon without available has been quite nice.
I built a second magus using Twisting Tree for a series of different leveled Dark Archive playtest games. We started with level 5 (3 combats, 2 Moderate and 1 Severe) and just finished a similar bout at level 10. Next we are aiming for level 16, but haven't gotten there yet.
So with Twisting Tree I have 6 combats, 4 moderate and 2 severe. Despite the inclusion of several dragons, each with a version of AoO, and several other creatures with similar abilities, it just hasn't been that bad. But that is very anecdotal, just because none of the opponents I've faced disrupted my actions doesn't mean it doesn't or hasn't happened to others. I just currently have no fear of marching that twisting tree magus into combat.
Now I'll address key points.
Expect it changes almost notching, anyone can benefit from it and other classes benefit from those things better than magus. If you cast a defensive spell on a magus or fighter, they will benefit equally from it, so notching will change... Because every other class don't need that, but you suggest that magus does.
Picking the right class or build according to your team should reward you,... but magus on higher lvls shouldn't require others to "babysit" him to be good if they can focus on a fighter to make him the best.
Edited a bit for length, tried to keep the spirit of the comment.
The comment you are replying to was in response to the idea that a Magus at any level will be operating without any sort of defensive measures in place, that they don't have the health to stand next to an opponent, and to the idea that they are powerless to stop AoO's or other similar abilities from completely shutting down their Spellstrikes.
But the reality that I have experienced so far is that even when a foe with +Grab or AoO is your target, the chances of them completely shutting down your ability to spellstrike isn't all that high. And a high level (level 10 plus) Magus that makes no plans to defend themselves with spells, or at least make a plan with their allies to defend them, is making poor choices.
The idea that a Magus should be as capable on their own as a Fighter in close combat is flawed, deeply. The Magus has so much more versatility than a Fighter that it simply can't be as good as said Fighter in straight melee combat. If it was, then there would be no reason to play a Fighter, right?
Spellstrike is a very efficient action. It combines a one action strike with a two action spell, and only requires a single check to determine the effectiveness of both. So there should be some cost to using it. That cost is that it can trigger reactions, and possibly be disrupted.
That, in my opinion, shouldn't change.
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We need to know what your actual claim is before we can judge if you've succeeded or not.We are not here to judge though. Nor to try and belittle another person's actual play experience just because they have a different opinion.
Except that we need to know what they define as a success if we're to have a discussion about the balance issue we're discussing. If one claims a class is a success but their metric is simply that the class functions and doesn't suffer from any literally unplayable game-breaking issues that are unlikely to be what other people would call a success. Hence the prodding about beowolf's experiences.
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I built a second magus using Twisting Tree for a series of different leveled Dark Archive playtest games. We started with level 5 (3 combats, 2 Moderate and 1 Severe) and just finished a similar bout at level 10. Next we are aiming for level 16, but haven't gotten there yet.3 combats in a day, with only one severe, is a VERY light adventuring day by AP standards. I imagine magus does better there because those spell resources don't get stretched so thin.
The playtest game wasn't set up to stretch the classes to their absolute limits, just to see how they feel in several combats in a row, and test them against various opponents. That being said, none of the party was tapped out by the end of the Severe encounter, and probably had a solid 2 or more additional combats left in them. Including the Magus.
Spellstrike is a very efficient action. It combines a one action strike with a two action spell, and only requires a single check to determine the effectiveness of both. So there should be some cost to using it. That cost is that it can trigger reactions, and possibly be disrupted.I mean, if you are doing less damage than a fighter just swinging twice, how is it more efficient? If anything actions that can be broken into two are better since they are far more flexible and less vulnerable to disruption.
The Fighter has to contend with MAP on that second strike, while the Magus doesn't. They are getting the benefits of 3 actions worth of damage for 2. And that damage runs a wide gamut actually.
A Magus spellstriking with a Cantrip may do less damage than a fighter. But what about a Magus using a max spell level spell on that attack? There is variance there, the Magus has options.
They can throw a highest level spell slot at a particularly strong foe, they can throw cantrips and still deal reasonable damage against a lesser foe. And they can dial in their damage types much more efficiently than a Fighter can to avoid resistances or trigger weaknesses. And they can support themselves with spells like Draw the Lightning or True Strike, whereas a Fighter can't without dipping into a casting class.
A Magus isn't a martial equal to a top tier fighter, but a Fighter MC'd with a casting class is a poor Magus.
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Except that we need to know what they define as a success if we're to have a discussion about the balance issue we're discussing. If one claims a class is a success but their metric is simply that the class functions and doesn't suffer from any literally unplayable game-breaking issues that are unlikely to be what other people would call a success. Hence the prodding about beowolf's experiences.We need to know what your actual claim is before we can judge if you've succeeded or not.We are not here to judge though. Nor to try and belittle another person's actual play experience just because they have a different opinion.
The real discussion point of this thread is whether or not Spellstrike should or should not trigger reactions. I see no reason why it shouldn't. Spellstrike does a lot for the caster no matter what their numbers look like.
1. It is an action economy booster. You get a strike and a 2 action offensive spell rolled into 2 a two action activity, and with no MAP between them.
2. It boosts the accuracy of a Spell Attack spell to Martial equivalent, and allows that spell to benefit from a weapon's Potency rune.
3. Spellstrike is a core class feature, not a feat. It doesn't matter what level you are, you can spellstrike and gain it's benefits. This makes comparing spellstrike to other activities like Double Slice or Power Attack difficult, since those are optional and have a feat cost associated with them.
#2 is arguably the big one. Since the release of PF2, caster aficionados have been asking for a way to boost spell accuracy with a potency rune equivalent. Spellstrike allows for this by using your Strike to determine the spells effectiveness. Expansive spells that require a save don't get this benefit granted. But it would be wacky if they did. Imagine being able to force Curses on foes with martial accuracy determining the effect instead of granting them a save. Things would get wonky real quick.
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My first magus (inexorable iron) build is currently level 2, heading to level 3 in a biweekly game, with only a few combats under his belt, so not much experience there to be fair. But even at low level, I've had a few key spellstrikes, and usually don't even need to spellstrike to be effective. Just the ability to have my own buffs like Magic Weapon without available has been quite nice.
Here's a serious question, would your team deal more damage if you give your magic weapon buff to the Fighter? Aside from that low-level play isn't where you're supposed to see the issue as few enemies at that level will have AoOs and/or abilities to lock down a character effectively via other means.
I built a second magus using Twisting Tree for a series of different leveled Dark Archive playtest games. We started with level 5 (3 combats, 2 Moderate and 1 Severe) and just finished a similar bout at level 10. Next we are aiming for level 16, but haven't gotten there yet.
So with Twisting Tree I have 6 combats, 4 moderate and 2 severe.
As you have noted this is a very small sample size, and you could have a drastically different experience with something as simple as different rolls.
The idea that a Magus should be as capable on their own as a Fighter in close combat is flawed, deeply. The Magus has so much more versatility than a Fighter that it simply can't be as good as said Fighter in straight melee combat. If it was, then there would be no reason to play a Fighter, right?
The counterpoint to this is that a hybrid class that sucks at two things isn't worth having around compared to a class that does one thing well. If there was a Fighter that was forced to do two attacks as a single action or lose that juicy +2 to hit, would you want to play that or would you switch to a Champion or Barbarian?
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Spellstrike does a lot for the caster no matter what their numbers look like.
You're not wrong, but your examples are all written as though this is some big free bonus for the spellcaster and not simply one of their fundamental class features.
Yeah, it's an action economy booster and makes your spells more accurate, but all those elements actually do is get you in the same ballpark as other classes get with their own mechanics.
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I'm about to DM a Magus. If AoOs while spellstriking are making the class no fun to play, I'm going to adjust.
I don't think a rogue would be too happy if they were hit with an AoO every time they snuck attack. Or a barbarian raged. Or a fighter swung his weapon. Or a swashbuckler finished.
I don't think it will be fun for a melee magus to get AoOed while spell striking. But I want to see in play first how they do.
I have gone against one Magus enemy as a fighter. I messed him up real nice with AoOs while spellstriking. But that was one encounter, so don't want to base things off one encounter.
I do have a strong concern that a cornerstone class feature like spellstrike provoking an AoO might seriously make a player actively dislike the class.
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From my play experience, it's not a huge problem most of the time, but I'm also not convinced it actually makes the game better in any tangible way. It almost can't be a balancing point because it's presences as a mechanic is so inconsistent and it does more to warp how you build your magus than providing much in the way of meaningful gameplay.
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Spellstrike does a lot for the caster no matter what their numbers look like.You're not wrong, but your examples are all written as though this is some big free bonus for the spellcaster and not simply one of their fundamental class features.
Yeah, it's an action economy booster and makes your spells more accurate, but all those elements actually do is get you in the same ballpark as other classes get with their own mechanics.
Okay, so does Spellstrike provoking AoO do anything to make Magus any less, "in the same ballpark" as other classes?
Is it a harsh enough penalty that it legitimately hurts the class? Is it any different than the trade-offs and limitations that other classes have with their respective schtick's?
I don't think so personally. Maybe my tune will change as I get more experience with the class. But so far it has been pretty smooth sailing. I haven't had an aoo disrupt the spell. I haven't felt especially fragile.
The only downside to being a Magus I've encountered is how action starved they can be in the first round or two of an encounter while they get into Arcane Cascade. Coincidentally, having a Silent Whisper Psychic along for the ride (the playtest psychic) is really nice for that.
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So why design and balance a class based on the least likely situation in a teamwork based game, in a teamwork based hobby?
As much as I and my players like our characters to succeed, I have never considered RPG a teamwork based hobby, beyond “co-operatively” “storytelling”. I’m not in a team trying to win, I have a character interacting with a world, and sometimes surviving. Almost all of my characters “work well with others”, but that doesn’t make RPG’s a teamwork based hobby.
I can see that PF2 is definitely more teamwork oriented. Which is a plus for tactically minded savvy game mechanic conversant players. But possibly not so good for new players unaware of synergies or that some classes may in fact rely on them.