UGM's page

We've got an upcoming game in which the DM has granted the players 2 "free" levels in any one core character class that is not your favored class with additional conditions limiting synergy. I cannot have a cleric with the Magic Arcane subdomain for a character that will become a wizard favored class for the rest of the game, for example.

Given Erik Mona's Greyhawk expertise, I'd like to know what Elven god I should "spend" for two levels of cleric to go with an Elf with wizard as his Favored class that I'll be creating for this game.

What domains are most helpful and given Sean Reynold's partial list of Greyhawk deity domains located at the url given below what Elven deity provides "the best bang for the buck"--if I'm only getting two levels of cleric for what will be a wizard character for the rest of the game?

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/we/greyhawkdeities.html

For that matter, do I take two levels of cleric or two levels of some other core class to improve my survivability--like monk?

I'd love to hear what the wisdom of the board has to tell me on the matter.

Thanks!

UGM :-)

Here’s the build:

LEVEL 1: Ranger~Wild Stalker 1: provides the following class abilities: Strong Senses (low light vision), track and wild empathy.
FEATS Human Bonus--Improved Initiative; First level--Deadly Aim

LEVEL 2: Ranger~Wild Stalker 2: gives us Uncanny Dodge! (Very Red Sonja...)

LEVEL 3: Monk~Sohei 1: gives us a Bonus feat, flurry of blows, Devoted Guardian (initiative bonus), Unarmored AC Bonus and unarmed strike.
FEATS: 3rd level--Point Blank Shot; Monk Bonus--Mounted Combat.

LEVEL 4: Monk~Sohei 2: gives us another Bonus feat and evasion. We put our first attribute bump into DEX, bring that up to an 18 for a +4.
FEAT: Monk Bonus--Mounted Archery.

LEVEL 5: Monk~Sohei 3: gives us maneuver training and still mind.
FEAT: Precise Shot.

LEVEL 6: Monk~Sohei 4: now gets the Ki Pool, Monastic Mount and Ki Weapon.

LEVEL 7: Monk~Sohei 5: High jump (Not much happening at this level...although it IS cool when a mounted archer clears the castle wall and is raining death down upon the hapless in the castle courtyard while her horse gets a full move along the parapet to the winch house to raise the portcullis...yeah, that was cool...)
FEAT: Rapid Shot.

LEVEL 8: Monk~Sohei 6: Weapons Training in Bows group! Unlike the Zen Archer archetype where the use of Many Shot and Rapid Shot are specifically excluded--no such exclusion exists for the sohei monk. “Say ‘ello to my little friend...Red (aka Machine-gun Molly). Second attribute bump to Wisdom. So +3 adjustment now.
FEAT: Monk Bonus--Trick Riding.

LEVEL 9: Monk~Sohei 7: Ki pool adds cold iron and silver as possibilities and Wholeness of Body (meh, crap healing for the price imho).
FEAT: Many Shot.

LEVEL 10: Monk~Sohei 8: got nothing but a bump to BAB, flurry and saves.

LEVEL 11: Monk~Sohei 9: Picked up Improved Evasion.
FEAT: Clustered Shots.

LEVEL 12: Monk~Sohei 10: Monk bonus feat, Ki Pool now includes “lawful.” Attack and damage rolls on Bows group selected at level 8 is now +2! Third attribute bump to INT...just because it’s now the only odd one out.
FEAT: Monk Bonus--Mounted Skirmisher. This is where she rocks, flurry of bow shots from mount, so FULL attack PLUS FULL move. Machine-gun Molly does a drive by...and due to the Mounted Archery feat + Weapon Training’s bonus means Red is shooting as she rides by with NO negative modifiers to her SIX shots!!!

LEVEL 13: Monk~Sohei 11: Got nothing but a flurry bump.
FEAT: Power Attack. (...in anticipation of her next level--getting to that “she-devil with a sword” title, soon...)

LEVEL 14: Monk~Sohei 12: Weapons Training in Monk’s weapons group just to get the swords (Butterfly Sword, Nine-ring Broadsword (x3 crits) and the Temple Sword (which has the EXACT same stats as the long sword, well, other than weight (3lbs v. 4lbs) and initial cost (30gp v. 15gp)--Red SNEERS at the seven bladed sword...) If I could have selected Heavy Blades for a sohei, I would--then again if we could no one would ever play a fighter again.

And that’s where we are at right now. As soon as a full-caster hits 16th level--the game ends. So I might take my 15th level as a fighter or Barbarian (maybe even Paladin...) as another level of monk gets me nothing but a +1 bump on Bows (to +3 Attack and Damage from +2) and another level of ranger gets me the Endurance feat.

So, as to my earlier claims in the previous post:

Her AC is Celestial Armor (pg. 465 Core) under quilted cloth (APG pg 179-180) which gives her a +10 AC and a DR of 3/- vs. small ranged piercing projectiles (APG pg 179).

She also has a +4 Ring of Protection, a +3 amulet of natural armor and her DEX modifier of +4 for a BASE AC of 31, which she can bump to 35 with a point from her key pool.

She uses her UMD and a wand of Shielding made by a 10 level npc wizard she knows to give herself another +4 shield bonus for 10 minutes if the fight looks really nasty, bringing her to AC39.

Finally, she has a wand of Cat’s Grace made by the same wizard to give her a +4 DEX (so an additional +2 to AC) to push her to AC41 for 10 minutes with each charge. She uses that wand more as it also increased a bunch of skills, her attack roll with her bow and Cat’s Grace is a Ranger spell, so no UMD roll is required as Wild Stalker is a Ranger archetype.

Other magic:

+3 Composite Longbow (built for STR 16) so +3 enchanted bonus to hit / +3 enchanted bonus to damage, +3 STR bonus to damage. The bow has yet to be enchanted with any additional abilities. Red has spent her money on booze and boys, apparently.

Additional Wands: Wand of Grease, Wand of Mount, Wand of Gravity Bow, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Wand of Pyrotechnics, Wand of Bear’s Endurance, Wand of Cat’s Grace, Wand of Bull’s Strength.

3 Efficient Quivers.

Boots and Cloak of Elvenkind

Unfettered Shirt

Handy Haversack

+3 dagger

+3 Temple Sword

Greater Hat of Disguise

Bracer’s of Falcon’s Aim

and numerous potions, scrolls, ammo and cheap, “slot-less” wondrous items.

That does it. If any of you posted 3+ years ago, my thanks.

UGM

Quick Note as to what we ended up with since our game was put off until archetypes were introduced so I created Red Sonja as shown below and that character is working great! First, some notes to put the build in context.

There are some really cool feat combinations that gave this character some awesome role playing crunch like the FEARLESS CURIOSITY feat chain or combat effectiveness in terms of Sword/Archery/Mounted Combat. In the end we went with a mounted combat feat chain and archery, despite our DM's (GM?!?) "blatant bias" ;-) towards players selecting racial feat chains for role playing reasons.

We're also permitted two traits which must come from different lists (combat, social, etc.) and, since we actually started the game at 7th level I took my standard "Reactionary" for a +2 to Initiative and "Dangerously Curious" to get a +1 to the skill Use Magic Device and to make UMD a class skill. If we had to start at 1st level I'd have switched "reactionary" with the original Adventurer's Armory version of "Heirloom Weapon (Bow)" or (if our DM wasn't such a killer) "charming" for role playing purposes.

Finally, the character was based upon Dynamite "re-imagining" of Red Sonja which down plays the "idiotic man hating must beat me in combat for sex because the gawd Sasquatch (or whatever...) said, “...after my family was killed and I survived a rape...” BS to a beautiful, wild woman who was dragged from her home to marry a decadent king whom she subsequently killed, fled her country, hid in a steppes tribe where she found her favored class and has been a hunter, rogue, sailor, soldier, scout, thief, treasure hunter...adventurer ever since.

Sometimes she sneaks home to see her folks and siblings. She's popular as a "Robin Hood" type in her own little village, otherwise her fame is as fleeting as her crew runs from the authorities from region to region--it's just the rumors of a wild red haired adventurer that a few bards might sing about...but she's never been a queen as in the Queen Sonja series of comics and she's never lead "Armies" of anything. With Charisma as her "dump stat," she never will. Charisma isn't physical beauty or "Comeliness" as previously discussed...

Perhaps a squad of skirmishers, thieves or adventurers in the future, maybe? The leadership Feat is BANNED in our games.

Our Red Sonja is an okay team player with "lawful" (an eye for an eye, you kidnap me, I'll kill you) good alignment. Red Sonja is Human with Our DM's assigned Heroic Campaign Stats 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12 were originally distributed thus:

STR 16, DEX 17, CON 14, INT 13, WIS 15, CHA 12

Now she’s 14th level and has a base AC of 31. She can raise that to AC37 in one round of prep and push that to AC 41 with expenditure of Ki points.

Her base mounted bow attack (six arrows) (while doing a FULL move action) is +20 (x2), +20, +15, +15, +10. She can chose to shoot SEVEN arrows: +18(x2), +18, +18, +13, +13, +8. Her bow attacks when afoot or standing still are +2 to each number in each sequence above. Her base damage with her bow is 1d8+8 without enhanced ammo or spells. Critical threat is 19-20 and the arrows do x3 crits. She also has the DEADLY AIM and CLUSTERED SHOT FEATS.

Her base melee attack mounted (while doing a FULL move action) is +18/+18/+13/+13/+8 without additional enhancement. Base damage is 1d10+6 with a critical threat of 19-20 for x3 crits. She also has the POWER ATTACK FEAT.

Okay. I figured that the tread dried up because we had "covered" the subject pretty completely. :)

Indeed you have--and my wife has called just called me a "pig" and then said, "....prepare to die!" after my making her "Red Sonja" based character for her.

She then quoted the movie Gamers: Dorkness Rising by telling me that the bikini mail armor, "...looks like it chafes."

I guess she prefers her Red Sonja to wear clothes...she wants to kick butt like Red Sonja, but do it while looking like the historical Joan of Arc.

Too bad. I was hoping for some Red Sonja T&A pictures to occupy me during the course of our gaming this fall.

UGM

Outstanding Link, Lord Fyre! (http://old.enworld.org/Inzeladun/conan/redsonja/sonja.htm)

Thank you so very much. It was incredibly helpful.

Sorry the thread "dried up." I busted up my knee waterskiing and spent a great deal of time in physical rehab this summer (2011).

UGM

A bit wordy, but I like it. A good update of a good feat.

Thanks--the examples and the special section wouldn't be included in any published work--only as notes for guidance to players & DM in our game....

What do you folks think of this (using Pathfinder Monk/Paladin core classes):

ASCETIC KNIGHT FEAT

Self-enlightenment and honorable service grow from the same ethical and moral basis. As a student of this philosophy, you have blended your training as a paladin and as a monk into one seamless whole.

Prerequisites: Improved unarmed strike feat, ability to smite evil.

Benefit: Your paladin and monk levels stack for the purpose of determining your unarmed strike damage, the extra damage dealt by your smite evil ability, your monk’s AC bonus and the duration/effect of your divine bond. Monk and paladin levels also stack for the number of uses for class features keyed to 1/2 your class levels but not for the effects or for the eligibility/qualification for such features.

Special: The number of smites, unarmed attacks and times a paladin may call upon her divine bond are not modified by this feat. The effect of the Ki pool or of the “Lay on Hands,” class features of the monk and paladin respectively, are likewise not modified or improved by this feat.

For example, a medium sized 3rd-level paladin/1st-level monk (a 4th level character) would deal 1d8 points of damage with her unarmed strike and +4 damage (+8 damage to evil outsiders, dragons or undead) on her successful smite evil attacks as a 4th level character. She gets no divine bond benefit as she is not yet a 5th-level paladin. If unarmored AND unencumbered, she would get the monk’s +1 to AC as if a 4th level monk.

Second example, a 10th-level paladin/3rd-level monk with no ability modifiers would have 6 uses of her lay on hands ability (rather than 5) but could only heal 5d6 points of damage even though she is a 13th-level character. She would not get any ki points as she is not yet a fourth level monk. She could summon her divine bond twice a day (as a 9th level paladin) for a +3 bonus (as an 11th-level paladin)--not 3 times a day, as a 13th-level paladin could. If unarmored AND unencumbered, she would get the monk’s +3 to AC as if a 13th level monk.

Third example, an 8th-level paladin/9th-level monk with no ability modifiers would have 8 uses (instead of 4) of her lay on hands ability that heals only 4d6 points, 8 ki points but still not have lawful unarmed attacks (granted by the monk’s ki pool at 10th-level) or be able to use the Abundant Step for 2 ki points (a 12th-level monk class feature) despite being a 17th-level character. She could summon her divine bond once a day (as a 5th level paladin) for a +5 bonus, not 4 times a day, as a 17th level paladin could. If unarmored AND unencumbered, she would get the monk’s +4 to AC as if a 17th level monk.

INCREDIBLE! Truly, this board absolutely ROCKS!

As said earlier a "real" Red Sonja is very feat intensive. My own earlier attempt at a "holy" Red Sonja was mixing a Paladin with Zen Archer/Monk and that worked well.

I collect Red Sonja and Shi comics--mostly to annoy my wife with my juvenile & prurient fantasies about hot chicks with swords--which doesn't work (she claims...)

Anyhow, Red Sonja has a series in which as a very young "adventurer" she was a rogue--with amazing climbing and stealth skills.

I also believe that a third level fighter/archer (taking feint as the trick shot--page 104 APG) then taking the rogue/Sniper for 12 levels so, with a successful feint, this character could apply sneak damage out to 70 feet--which is about the average engagement range we find ourselves playing.

Just brain storming here...

I'll check in again later this week.

Thanks for your help.

Wayde

Incredible advice! I thank you all.

My wife's concept is based on the four comic book editions of Red Sonja, Queen Sonja, A one shot Red Sonja (entitled Break the Skin, I think...) and another issue...all of which I just picked up from my favorite local comics and games shop this past week.

The movie version back in the 80's was a miserable failure (and the Mrs. did not see that anyhow--not a gamer then!) I've seen a trade paperback featuring R.E. Howard's fighting women along the lines of Kull and Conan and El Borak (my favorite!) but I haven't picked it up yet.

I'd drop the mounted thing featured in this month's comic, because (as most of you have pointed out) this character concept is wicked MAD and is based on a character build we are NOT going to see anytime soon. We are building with 20 points per Pathfinder Core Rules and starting at 9th level. We will be ending at 16th level maximum. System breaks down at 15, this group has found (8th level spells, I've heard...) so no (PC) arcane magic user is a full caster class--they have at least ONE level of a non-casting class. The NPC's are under no such restriction.

I was hoping that we'd use Pathfinder with the d20 Conan RPG as it seems more fitting to the character types the players are creating, but we are playing in a heavily magic'd (all low level stuff (<4th level) is common and stuff beyond/requiring 5th level spells is rare.

I hope this additional information is helpful in making any suggestions you may have.

One last thing--all PC's get the leadership feat automatically. Almost everyone has selected a spell caster if they're playing a non-caster OR a body guard if they are playing a spell caster. The purpose being that we have to create most of the +2 or greater magic items we wish to have/use.

Uh...two last things, actually! The PC's are not always allied with each other. A loyal friend may, due to changes of fortune or the realities of politics become your enemy and vice versa. So playing a PC's cohort tends to be close to the vest.

I appreciate the excellent remarks and thoughtful suggestions thus far.

Please continue to enlighten me at your convenience!

UGM

Cheapy, Space Titanium:

Thank you, both, for replying so quickly!

What feats would you select with your suggested builds?

UGM

The subject says it all.

How can we create a full (or nearly full) BAB character with no armor but a High AC, Archery, mounted combat, Two weapon fighting, brawling, good stealth and perception skills and her third highest (or higher ability score) in Charisma...WHEEEEE!

We are trying to create characters based upon movie-comic arch-types and this is one my wife choose. I usually play a thief (uh...I meant "rogue." Showing my age...) and am out of my depth in D&D 3.5--Pathfinder.

The materials used should (MUST) be Paizo or "Pathfinder" compatible. VERY rare exceptions might be made for allowing WotC 3.5 material in.

I'm relatively new to 3.x - Pathfinder. I own the Core Rules and APG. My follow gamers and DM have all the Paizo published works and materials between them for our use.

I would very much appreciate ANY insight or suggestions that you may have on the matter.

Thank you for your (timely) consideration!

UGM!

never mind--page 406 core rules...sorry to have bothered you...

The rules for LA and ECL are not in Pathfinder RPG. Quite simply, we felt that those rules were an ill-fitting band-aid over a larger problem; the fact that while some players want to play monsters, the game itself isn't designed for that (even though you COULD do it, since monsters and player races work the same way).

For Pathfinder, we've adopted a much less rulesy way of handling things. There's a list of races that are appropriate for play alongside humans, and a list of races that are CLOSE to appropriate, and that's about it.

I know I've read this list somewhere...but I cannot find it now. In which book, on what page, please?!?

THANK YOU!

W, UGM