I have the same issue with the Shifter than I do with the Kineticist. The class's main purpose is to be a frontline damage dealer. Therefore, it should have damage comparable to the more standard builds (2hand STR Barbarian or Fighter, whether Greatsword or Falchion) reliably. The problem is, it falls behind noticeably. Also, I find the consideration towards 'power creep' rather amusing, given that functionally every book adding new spells only increases the versatility of existing casters, effectively bumping their power; or that there are noticeable class power-boosting books (WMH and Unchained Rogue/Monk being the most obvious examples). Well, and that I have the firm belief that there's a potentiall overwhelming (based on player skill) power disparity among the different classes. Well, I'm deviating from the point I'm trying to make, which is: I've given a look at the numbers, and they look low. This is not comparing to the more damage-intensive builds (Archer-Smiting paladin and Ubercharge, or TWF shenanigans, amongst others), but to the bread-and-butter ones.
bookrat wrote:
Except that at level 20 it isn't just a simple sword or gun, it's the very best sword or gun that mortal minds can conceive and craft, the same way in PF you can't really call a +5 keen impact heartseeker training impervious greatsword just a sword.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Except that (outside of FE:Heroes, which is a high lethality exception) the Dancer/Heron (not Crane) is a bad unit when you're new to the game and you can't use the rest of the units to the most/aren't good with positioning, solidly good when you have some experience, and not necessary at all when you have good mastery of how the game's mechanics work to its full extent (Just bringing 5-7 units that you overlevel without even grinding is enough to crush most challenges in many cases-or do some game exclusive shenanigans like staff abuse in FE5 or double Galeforce in FE 13)-Sure, you could do a comparison to the Rallybots in Awakening (+10 to allstats AoE effect for two unit's actions that doubles as staffbot when unneeded, which means +120 damage baseline, +48 vs dragonskin in a single round of combat with Brave weapons on both sides of the pairup, plus enabling that x4 attacks and probably surviving an enemy pack of Apotheosis Secret Waves? Hoo boy), but that game was totally broken in terms of balance. From what I'm getting, a maximized Envoy on a teamworking party is comparatively less flexible than a 3.5 well-built Bard, who buffed everyone to hell and back plus provided a ton of side utility, plus being able to hit hard on its own. Talking about another topic, can we hear some more about the new Hellknight Orders? (Furnace and Eclipse) Because hoooo boy those names sound rather hype-building. Nice to see that the Pike got promoted (being a consistently LG order, if minor); although it's sad to see the Pyre go (or is the Furnace the Pyre on space-flavor? Given the fire association, it's something I could see having happened).
Question, why is Damoritosh LE and not LN? Neither his portfolio nor his writing suggests particular evil over neutrality, specially when he seems the lawful counterpart of Gorum rather than a deity more like Moloch. Sure, he does forgo honor and such when necessary for victory, but he says when necessary (and not when pragmatic, because a victory at higher costs remains a victory). And Ragathiel remains as an example of a LG god which doesn't do diplomacy, which means that his undiplomatic attitude shouldn't be a quality to make him evil.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Yes, and how much is the Fighter getting out of it? a +3 to either Diplomacy or Bluff (Clever Wordplay)(This also means not taking Perception as class skill) and maybe UMD (Which has a fixed DC for most uses)? Around an archetype that still had very limited ranks per level? Design conventions don't matter when Fighter was horrendously underpowered, and plenty of archetypes did the same thing (Mutation Warrior being the biggest example for Armor Training), and with AMH the feature's now about worth it for the trade. Oh, the combat maneuver bonus was unbalanced? Do I need to bring up the issues with CMD on enemies snowballing out of control, which means that the Lore Warden's CMB bonus was NECESSARY to make combat maneuver builds VIABLE on the late game? (Not even mentioning the increasing amount of enemies that become immune to certain combat maneuvers for all practical purposes as the levels go higher, hello flying and many-legged, or huge+ enemies) Ah, yes, a bonus to Combat Expertise's scaling. You mean making the feat what it should have been in the first place to make it worth taking on its own rather than the biggest feat tax in the game? And given that offense>>defense, it might still remain unused? And even with the newer books, the Fighter isn't at the top of his tier, nor does Lore Warden push him over it. These words do look angry from me, but this is because I don't see this nerf as reasonable.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
The thing is, the spell will not really screw a paladin unless they roll a 1 or a 2 and don't have Called or an equivalent abilities because their saves against fear effects are still pretty high, and it remains a tool only for the DM to use; and against paladins only, as no other player class I recall has a baked in full immunity to fear effects. Quick math: A CR 14 Adult Red Dragon has a Frightening Aura with a DC of 21. A level 14 paladin will have a base Will save of +9, plus another +4 from Charisma, another +4 from his Cloak of Resistance, another +4 from his Aura of Courage, which even when deprived of the fear immunity, still grants a hefty morale bonus; and this sums to +21; +19 if he has -2 to Wis. This means he only fails the save on a Nat 1. A level 12 paladin may fail the save on a 2; or a 3 or 4 if he's a level 10 paladin(And this is before any other bonuses that may apply), but it remains clear that even with his immunity deprived, he will reliably make the save against the effect.Unless the paladin already traded away his aura of courage on an archetype (and in which case he then no longer has fear immunity, making using the spell against him pointless) he doesn't really risk failing the check. (EDIT-there's also 4 archetypes that do trade out Divine Grace; but I've rarely seen builds of any but the Stonelord, which likely still has a decent Will from being a dwarf and being able to dump Charisma) A spell that allowed the caster to bypass the fear immunity of enemies regardless of their type (And as such also allowing intimidate builds to work against undead, constructs; which outside of specific campaigns tend to be more common than plants, vermin (against which a trait can already allow for intimidation) and oozes-the latter being already a pain for melee to directly attack though) would enable players to play around with intimidate builds without risking making half their build useless (Given that an intimidate build generally involves getting Cornugon Smash, Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses plus prereqs at minimum) against fairly common enemy types; which is my criticism of the spell-It'd be fun for everyone if the spell's fear immunity-piercing applied to everything so that the spell is a good choice for players too.
jedi8187 wrote:
That is as a ground mount. For Flying, you need to get all Glide, Flight, Mount, and either Improved Mount or Improved Flight, as Mount in of itself will cause the drake to lose it's highest drake power related to flying while carrying a rider, and gliding is most certainly not flying. EDIT: And in the meantime, Draconic Malice allows for non-antipaladins to finally have a way to pierce fear immunity, that is, against living creatures (And not undead or constructs, which are likely more common enemies with immunity to it)
It seems like drakes make for absolutely terrible flying mounts, particularly for medium characters. Not only they need to invest about everything into making it a decent flier, the archetypes are pretty costly in trades as well. Makes for a better investment to just spend two feats into Monstrous Mount and MM Mastery for a flying mount, which can also be obtained much earlier. Endgame wise (Levels 17+) it seems like the Drake will outdamage the Griffon offensively as a mount and be much sturdier; but having to wait until level 15 to get the Drake to work as a flying mount (And with a disastrously terrible -10 to Fly from it being Clumsy maneuverability and Large size) is just ridiculous.
Mrakvampire wrote:
Actually, it does now. You get to add half your strength and 50% bonus to power attack since you can 2-hand that longsword. At levels 14-15 that can easily amount for an extra 4 damage from STR, and an extra +4 damage from power attack. +8 damage per swing isn't bad at all.
Mrakvampire wrote:
Magic Vestment? Oh, which at level 12 is a +3 bonus to the shield? (Take into account that pearls of power replenish a third level slot for 9k gp, which means that it's the exact same value) You only get to save 7k gp on the shield at level 16, and 16k at level 20.
Lemmy wrote: Powercreep isn't a bad thing when the original power levell is too low. This as well. Regardless of how much of a help WMH has been to Fighters, them alongside all the other noncasters and 4/9 casters are still below the 6/9 casters and even further behind fullcasters in terms of capabilities. It's pointless to balance a feat around what another martial class can do because then you stagnate them in the point they are in. A good point of balance is the Inquisitor or the Warpriest, which while partial progression casters, are pretty weapon combat oriented.
Mrakvampire wrote:
Want some monster math? Here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLK xHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3 The attack bonus of what more than likely is the melee dedicated enemy leaps from +31 to +34 at CR 15-16, and from 36 to 41 at CR 18-19. At the highest levels, it becomes increasingly hard to keep up with the Attack bonus of enemy monsters in terms of AC, you keep putting cash onto it so that some of the secondary/iteratives get a chance of missing. And heck, it's not melee or ranged attacks that make high CR enemies dangerous. Their dangerous stuff goes against saving throws or touch AC. What makes the Pit Fiend truly dangerous is not his full attack, but his trap the soul and mass hold monster.
Mrakvampire wrote:
No, I brought up Shield Brace because you asked why Kensai Magus and not Fighter McFighterson. Want a fair comparison? Well then, again as I mentioned a few posts ago. Skill Focus: Knowledge (Any)+Eldritch Heritage (Arcana), or Iron Will+Familiar, or Extra Arcana>Familiar if you're a Magus. You grab a Hawk with Protector archetype, retrain that useless Weapon Finesse because Familiars get Dex to attack rolls from being familiars into Additional Traits, pick something to boost the hawk's saves and then Helpful trait, which boosts the Aid Another bonus to +3. Now, Mister familiar is providing you with a) Against 4 attacks per round, 95% chance to increase your AC by 3; b) 50% additional health pool at later levels from splitting damage, c) take the full brunt of an attack (plus any rider effects) as an immediate action . How much additional gold does this cost? 0 gold, or 200 gold x level (which caps at a very affordable 4k gold at 20th) if you lose your familiar. See level 12, 25k vs 2400 gp if you get your familiar gibbed or fireballed.
Fallyrion Dunegrién wrote:
Maybe someone tried to sneak into Fex's home and got caught by the archbaron's guards. Annoyed, he orders the PCs to keep him imprisoned for it, for at least a couple weeks.
In addition to these arguments, let's assume what happens if the Glorious Reclamation somehow wins without Thrune pulling a ragequit button or something. You have a whole bureaucratic system that will collapse because most of the people involved have made deals with devils, are in alliance with them, or probably ping evil hard enough for the paladins not to incarcerate.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
If we talk specifically wizards, yes indeed. But fullcasters in general? (In the same way the swordmaster could be any full or 3/4 BAB class) Off the top of my head, Baba Yaga, Elvanna, Abrogail Thrune, Razmir, Geb and Arazni (Last two technically undead but w/e), three of which are reasonably active these days.
You need to remember that the paladin is LAWFUL good. Just because someone detects evil is not a reason enough to smite them, even if they don't want to change. Should the paladin smite the heartbreaker man that simply dedicates himself to making others fall in love with him for the sole purpose of breaking their hearts, even if the guy refuses to change his ways?
Quandary wrote:
Except PFS still doesn't pick on true minmax? Synthesist is only powerful in low-Op games, as anyone that actually goes on full optimization will tell you that the archetype is weaker than the main Summoner on the basis that it only has half the action economy of the standard Summoner+Eidolon, even if it ends up making the Summoner somewhat sturdier. PFS 'balances' around what most people complain about, not what is actually imbalanced.
Baval wrote:
Imho, it does fit the archetypal "One man army", however, if he's standing alone in a battlefield to defend a town against a raging horde of enemies, it makes sense for him to be able to defeat enemies fast enough for them not to get past him and tanky enough that he won't be overwhelmed. And this is one of the key points of it-Each class can be easily reinterpreted into a variety of roles. A full warder party could have a dedicated protector, a healing focused character via Silver Crane, a strong debuffing Fiendbound Marauder via Black Seraph and Cursed Razor, and a sneaky Dervish Defender/Hawkguard that also dishes a lot of damage. ((Of course then, a 4-man warder party can pretty much deal with most encounters due to all of them mutually protecting each other in a steel-tight defensive formation.))
Ross Byers wrote: Why do you need an Official one? Making an LE paladin by taking an Antipaladin and writing 'LE' on the character sheet seems almost stupidly straightforward. It won't fly in PFS, sure, but neither will Evil characters. I believe it's more of an issue of what the Antipaladin stands for, in base of his CoC (even if we take out the chaos part)-The baseline antipaladin is fundamentally the champion of all things evil, and a lawful one would just happen to have some degree of self-restraint on his methods. And the Insinuator is mainly motivated by self-interest, only adhering to an outsider's morals due to a pact, and just for the duration of said pact. The main appeal about Asmodeus is that he's more Lawful than Evil, and an (Anti)Paladin archetype specifically dedicated to that purpose would be the merciless enforcer of justice and law (And of tyranny), but not overall a champion of evil nor someone who's in just for the benefits.
CorvusMask wrote:
Remember that eugenics in this situation isn't 1) forced upon the unwilling (People aren't abducted to Hermea, and can choose not to follow with it; in which case they are allowed to leave. There's the rumors of the burnt boats on the shores, but that might be Mengkare being overprotective of his project against external forces that would try and infiltrate/destroy it), 2) isn't chosen from subjectively chosen traits but what approaches as much as possible for objectivity in what is best. Additionally, this is not much elitism, but rather a strongly meritocratic system-the "elite" is not a static group. The best get rewarded according to their own merits, which is pretty much what fairness is all about. By themselves, these are Neutral concepts, which if Mengkare is applying for good purposes, result in good actions.
The Raven Black wrote: If the LG deities themselves did not decide to go Mengkare's way, then who is he to believe he knows better ? How can that be LG ? Because LG can have quite the wide spectrum of philosophies, going from the "Find good in every person" that can be found in Redeemer Paladins, to the "Smite and purge all evil" that is amongst those that follow Ragathiel, to the more grim "Do not offer pity to the truly wicked, but don't kill lightly" of those that would agree with Damerrich. Every alignment has its own nuances and shades. |