Truth_'s page

Now's the time to use omens and weird shared dreams and such to send the message that the players are aching to receive.

What omens are weird dreams are they aching to receive? I think I misunderstood.

How about this... [wall o' text incoming]
After speaking to more players, they would rather have a shot at rescue than just giving up and making new characters. They acknowledge this would make the campaign more difficult if they succeed, due to increased notoriety early in the campaign. They also understand the escape should not be easy. They plan to push the trial in a direction to win them a public punishment and/or execution because it'd be easier to save them there than break into the well-guarded Holding House. So I've got to make some choices, which I'm bad at.

The remaining PC is using the teams to discover where the arrested PCs are. They're inquiring into various guard towers and hope to send someone to non-nonchalantly visit a clerk at the Holding House to inquire within, to see "If those criminals got what they deserved."

Meanwhile in the Holding House, I have to assume the guards give them the works. Now, because they have no obvious ties to the Silver Ravens or any large underground group, I don't think Barzillai even knows about what happened (or would care three ex-slaves failed miserably in a heist against a private citizen). This also means a top-tier interrogator wouldn't be called in. Perhaps first a low level detective grills them over the basics. Because he finds a symbol of Cayden Cailean on one of the clerics and a symbol of Abadar and Milani (plus a book of Milani's teachings) on another cleric... plus how suspiciously well-armed and armored they are for a typical gang or cult… an inquisitor of Asmodeus might be brought in (maybe Sabo, the level 7 warden of the Holding House from Book 2, or maybe a lower level one). They only have one silver raven figurine on them, but I don’t think most folks would make the connection between it and an old “gang” that died small and ingloriously decades ago.

We’re playing in 2e. Detect Alignment is a level 1 spell. I assume that gets used on them, discovering they are NG, NG, and CG. Zone of Truth is a level 3 spell, so this may or may not be available to the inquisitor who sees them. Discern lies, which Sabo herself has, is a level 4. I figure whoever it is uses those spells and good old fashion coercion and light torture to see if they’re a gang/if they’re mercs being paid/if they’re part of an underground Milani or Cailean cult. If any of those, they would want to know who and where their compatriots are, then go after those folks (which includes the noble PC who missed the session as well as Laria and Rexus at the Coffee House, causing a raid). Does this all seem reasonable?

If they resist or insult their captors, I assume bad stuff happens. Removed fingernails, broken finger, lashings, etc. Then comes their punishment.

It seems simple that some lackey would offer to Barzillai some nobodies got caught but they could be used as examples. Barz could take the opportunity to make a public speech – or send a stand-in to not waste his time – saying his new rules are exactly why they are needed: there are criminal elements out there trying to hurt the whole city, sowing chaos and violence. Maybe they go to execute the PCs, but then a cleric speaks up, saying there’s been a reprieve: Barzillai shows mercy. Instead just one PC is executed. Then the others are branded on the forehead or cheek and given lashings. Then 2 PCs are led away for doghousing followed by imprisonment or slavery, but that’s when the remaining PC and his teams (tengu, merc, goblins – all off-screen or not actively controlled) spring their rescue attempt.

The brand forces even more disguising in the future. The Coffee House probably gets raided and they have to move out – the Livery or the sewers their current obvious options for next HQ. They lose 1 silver raven figurine, the magic boots from Nam/albino alligator, their gear, and a few other odds and ends (although they can probably recover some/all of it in Book 2 if they target the stores when breaking out the Torrent armigers).

It seems like it'd cancel Barzillai ever rewarding the group for helping the city in Book 2… or not realizing who they were, he would, but the group would either definitely refuse (a recurring issue anyway for groups given what I’ve seen in this forum) or accept… and then everyone realizes who they are and attacks.

To be clear, those are the costs of bribery to make the charges go away, right? Meaning they might be higher than the fines associated with them if it doesn't get bribed away, in exchange for not being arrested, jailed, and tried - not to mention the real punishments after trial.

The noble happened to miss the session. He's wondering if he can buy them as slaves. Otherwise two are former slaves, and the third a low class orphan from Isger.

They killed an employee of the slave market. They knocked out two other employees, and a dottari. They attacked but failed to knock out a noble (min damage). They freed one slave by breaking a lock on their cage. They broke a door. They also gave another slave a knife and told him to fight for them.

I think they will be resistant to new characters. The only one who would be okay with it even told me don't worry, just do what Cheliax law would do. But I should mention new characters as an option to gauge a reaction of the others.

Other options I've thought of....

Serve as slaves to those they hurt in some way, or sent off to the silver mines for X time (6mo, 1-2 years). Causes a fast forward in time, although would force me to adjust the campaign timeline.

Public lashings followed by branding and possible limb loss (finger... hand!?, eye, etc).

Doghousing let's them be rescued, unless I make it heavily protected. But the remaining PC may be under the impression a rescue is possible, then.

If it wasn't for that murder... ugh.

I need some guidance in Cheliax lore, reasonable homebrew, and effective GMing. Last session my party failed a heist and all got knocked out and arrested by the dottari.

Backdrop:
We’re in Book 1 on Week 4. The players have gone off-script to fortify the Wasp Nest and clear the nearby sewers over two weeks for better movement. They have freed the mercenaries from the Saltworks, but have not done the other tasks. Then they decided they needed a few things for their growing operation: money, manpower, and notoriety to grow their resistance. Freeing slaves at the same time was also important.

They asked about any slave markets, and while none were listed in the city almanac, I figured there would be a single small one for use in the plantations of the North Plains or possibly mines, as well as Nidalese merchants. The citizens don’t love it, but it’s legal. Tossed in the sale of indentured servitude contracts there as well. They decided to hit it.

What happened:
Waiting for peak hours and several sales to go through, the PCs waited for one last sale before jumping in. They simultaneously tried to knock out a noble who was leading newly-purchased slaves away, free a couple new slaves being led out for sale, and steal the strongbox with the gold in it before it was transferred indoors. They did not team up in this endeavor, spreading themselves thin and eventually committing to the fight against the auctioneer’s men instead of fleeing, resulting in their getting surrounded. No one offered surrender, so they fought on. Dottari showed up and eventually subdued them all.

Aftermath:
They all used non-lethal until the very end. Two employees were knocked out, and one dottari. After two players went down, the third player finally used lethal for the first time and managed to kill an employee (fourth player missed session). A freed slave was also knocked out. There were no other casualties.

No one is aware they are the Silver Ravens, although two of them did shout a tagline that outs them as Milani adherents.

Options:
They killed someone. If it wasn’t for that, this might be different. This is too serious for a dottari tower, so instead I’m thinking they get sent to the Holding House from Book 2 for processing. One player has Legal Lore, but I cannot imagine it saving them from a serious sentencing for attacking both citizens and the city guard, plus killing someone (even if only 1 of them did the murder).

The player who missed the session wants to break them out, preferably using the sewers and the tengu and mercenary teams, plus some goblins they subdued in the sewers, as well as Laria and Rexus. This sounds difficult for their level. Additionally, they’ve done this sort of thing before in other campaigns: bold actions that get them in trouble with the law that they disregard. I can’t let them off the hook easily, otherwise they’ll just do it again (been there, done that, and had an OOC talk at that time).

Refusal to let them try a jailbreak (arguing it’s just too heavily fortified and no wide sewer connection) is an option to show there are consequences, and a new group of characters are needed (in Book 2 they can free their old characters and choose who to play?).

I can’t think of other options. It seems assault and murder would not just have them doghoused and released. Murder seems too steep for 6 months indentured servitude or some other small enough time period that we could “fast forward.”

What do you think a reasonable punishment is given how lawful Cheliax is, and balancing player fun without letting the players off the hook for terrible choices?

I am in Book 1 and my players have repeatedly mentioned wanting to clear the entire city's sewers as a means of travel for them and their teams, plus any folks they rescue, not to mention as a place to stay if things get too hot.

Aside from the amount of time it would take to clear an entire city, even a "small" one like Kintargo, what sewer encounters outside the book and/or with substance have you created?

I want some longer encounters or even side-quests available from this. For example, I have put a group of goblins down there that has lived there for some time. However, they've recently entered a war for their area. A morgodea (cockroach-controlling fey) has moved in, and needs space and food for its growing cockroach hordes. They have already stumbled on rumors of goblins ranging out of the sewers, and city employees complaining the cockroach problem is rendering sewer maintenance impossible. They'll either stumble upon the lair directly, a goblin scout, or a wounded goblin. This will either lead to a battle with the goblins (four normal gobbos, a warrior, and a shaman plus a neutral giant leech in the water and several goblins and roach corpses around the area) or team up with them against the morgodea and its forces (itself plus a giant cockroach and a venomroach).

I'll be using some of the random encounters, but I want some longer ones, or ones that take several encounters over time as well (like slowly taking back a large section from a particular gang over a few weeks).

First of all, I always appreciate a post from one of the twin titans, zimmerwald and roguerogue, in helping me think about and adjust this AP.

Call me ignorant and cynical, but it seems to me people across time and society tend to punch toward whatever is easiest - usually downward. Although the nobles/big bourg may not love Thrune nor especially Barzillai, it's easier and safer to accept it and find wiggle room than try to overthrow the system and risk everything. Similarly, the petty-bourgeois don't want to lose their tenuous grasp on wealth and comfort, and it seems they are more likely to agree to tightly grip their coins and kick at the working class than join with them against those that control them both.

I hope to make Barzillai ans his agents busy boys, not just courting Aulorian but also speaking with other interest groups (or perhaps rather reminding them of their comfort and wealth with a gentle if ominous reminder of what happens when you cross this feudal system and Thrune itself). As he gets more publicly cruel and fails more and more... well, that still fits with the story that he loses most support eventually.

How do you suppose the Hellknight orders, specifically the Rack in the city, react to the goings-on here? They're not obligated to help or save Barzillai, and likely see justice in his growing failure to tamp out rebellion, but they're still upholders of the law and don't need Barz's or even the Queen's permission to step in and punish the unlawful.

The same goes for the Church of Asmodeus, and any inquisitors about.

I am thinking of expanding one of the gangs, or creating another one (or mafia). I hope they can present an interesting moral dilemma, like our generally romantic view of pirates, in that they're a nuisance to society, yet are willing to stick to the man as much as the general population - thus a potential ally when it comes to thwarting blockades, getting around unnoticed, handling arguably needed dirty work, etc.

As for my last paragraph about a third party... I just think it adds more to most stories, not specifically this AP necessarily. HR is pretty straight-forward. Barzillai is the BBEG, appears in the very first session, and there's no red herrings, twists in the main story, surprising enemies-turned-allies, anything. I wanted an additional, prominent subplot.

Now, politics itself, if you really flesh out all the politico-economic groups, is quite the subplot. If you cannot unite enough groups, you can still take out Thrune, but it won't accomplish much. I think may players will like this, yet a more exciting subplot still feels needed to me. (I say feels because I'm hours away only from my second session).

But maybe a parallel group that disagree with the way the SRs are accomplishing the revolution (too bloody/not bloody enough, too slow/too fast, too lawful/not lawful enough) - still with the same goals in mind (unlike the CCG), but in conflict. And/or a group who is "helping," and fights fire with fire by bringing in a devil or demon that totally isn't subtly corrupting them to aid them... or perhaps Norborger or Zon-Kuthon. The players thus need to form a coalition with them and cave to some of their goals and tactics, talk them down, or unfortunately disperse/destroy them - proving to everyone this isn't a cutesy non-violent, egalitarian revolution where everyone holds hands and wins together.

*This isn't the GM's reference thread, so friendly spoiler warning for all books.

I have fully read and begun to GM Book 1. I have fully read Book 2 and skimmed 3-6, taking notes. Excuse any ignorance despite this.

The adventure seems a bit 2D politically. There are many potential factions mentioned, but they do not seem alive. Barzillai as the BBEG has some reactions. Everyone else, however, seems frozen in time and merely a brief backdrop. Please correct me in all ways I am wrong, but I am looking for ways to make the campaign a bit more reactive and proactive, living, and 3D.

The cultists of Mathallah sit at the anchor and do nothing until slaughtered by Thrune. The (separate? Aware of one another?) cultists in the Lucky Bones also just have their own sacrifice parties. (I also notice the lore on Math is pretty light).

The Skinsaw Cult is also missing from most the campaign despite being next door. I don't know enough about them to know what they might be doing before the SRs peeve one of their members in Vyre.

The gangs (Red Jills, River Talons, and Luncafex) are all small-time and don't feature much.

The noble houses are generally left out until you need to recruit them (there's one or two encounters with individuals before then, but otherwise they seem to ignore what's happening).

Does the Court of Coin ever do anything?

The Order of the Rack seems strangely absent for most the campaign?

The Church of Asmodeus and the Hellknights seem to have judicial and extrajudicial power, but they seem content to let Barzillai handle (or fail to handle) everything. I don't know if they are worried about the Silver Ravens at all and/or if they're fine with watching Barzillai fail.

Other groups have gone aground, so that's a reasonable reason why they're missing (Archivists destroyed, Rose of Kintargo and Bellflower Network in hiding, the followers of Calistria, Caden, Desna, and Sarenrae silenced). Although then they just seem to fall in line after being aided by the PCs.

I know it's not their affair, but the Nidalese don't seem to intervene in any way, even in secret. The local temple's priestess features in later books, but just to pummel the players on behalf of her boytoy, not interact with them.

The Iomedaens/Glorious Reclamation are left out on purpose, I believe a book note says, because their targets are elsewhere and they're more center stage for Hell's Vengeance campaign. Still could have a tiny involvement, though.

The Aspis Corsortium is strangely missing despite being featured in nearly every Pathfinder Society mission that even passes through Cheliax.

The Eagle Knights, if any, probably wouldn't target Kintargo much for sabotage, I imagine, especially when they realize they are rebelling, but still a potential option.

I don't know if any other devils or devil cults would be interested in getting involved. (Mathallah is a "recent" convert and seems more interested in herself than the diabolism of Hell or Asmodeus). The later contract devil does get involved a little, but that is PC-driven - not by taking notice of or approaching the PCs himself.

I am interested in any way any of you have spiced up your games. I really want to have the world moving around the players, whether they act or not... and then actually react to the PCs, not wait their turn to be discovered and beaten to a pulp.

This is just spit-balling, but I am also trying to think of a side/third party that gets involved. A devil who tries getting ahead by helping or hindering the PCs, a deeper Mathallah or Skinsaw group with some grand goal, an infiltrating Nidalese vampire cult trying to influence Kintargo/Ravounel, a growing countryside rebellion that eventually comes at odds with the Kintargo-grown rebellion, a disinterested archmage/lich/someone who uses the PCs to get at something for a book or two... or something like that.

What have I missed, and what ideas have you had or even enacted in your Hell's Rebels campaigns?