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It has been a number of years, far longer than you would think, and our group is on the last chapter of the STAP. I got to wondering how things had turned out in the alternate world where Tristan Lidu and her companions undertook the quest to stop Demogorgon. Guy, what happened?
I figured that since Tristan made her second appearance in our campaign, she deserved her own mention in our Dramatis Personæ.
Wow, it's been a while, and I actually came here to check on Tristan because she came up again last night in our game. When I get my journal up to date, I post a link! Thanks, Guy!
Character: The whole party (the 12th level mage, in particular)
One of my new player characters has a background plot that his ship was sunk by Emraag, which led to his being on the isle and, subsequently, picked up by the Vanthus’ slave traders (He was rescued from their holds at the Battle of Farshore). So, the player reasons, the character really has a grudge against Emraag. Fair enough. So, when the party brokers a deal with Emraag at the beginning of TLD, he’s (in character) kind of annoyed. Therefore, on the return trip (with a party that’s two or three levels tougher), he cantrips the flag off and prepares his spells for battle. Rolled for crewmembers on watch in the crow’s nest to notice the missing flag; fail. Rolled for Emraag to notice; success. Boom! He hits the ship. The party rolls initiative and the instigating character gets to go before the charismatic character and he casts Disintegrate; Emraag makes his save but still takes sizable damage. So, when charisma boy tries to talk the Glutton down, (“Wait, we had a deal! It’s us! The flag just fell off”) he’s taking a massive negative for the damage inflicted. Diplomatic fail. So I explain the way of things; 20% chance of capsize. I recommend taking him out before he rolls that 20%. Unfortunately, very next roll, 14%. The ship is capsized. I didn’t have Stormwrak handy, so I was making crap up as I went (sometimes the most fun) However, the prospect of being swallowed whole, eaten by sharks or drowned seemed to have a motivating effect and they really took the battle to the Glutton. The instigating mage lobbed Dex effecting spells making it easier to hit. Summoned a Huge Water Elemental, too. Iceball did damage and gave them a free round. The Glutton was killed and we had fun figuring out his treasure randomly. Meanwhile, the instigating mage made use of Teleport to return to Sasserine to buy some scrolls – more Summon Spells. I was a bit generous here, but his reasoning was sound – if one Huge Water Elemental can STOP a ship, then three should be able to right a ship, and even bail it out. For a narrative telling of the story, see our STAP site.
Say, if it's not too much trouble.... RFlatstone at Yahoo dot com? Thanks.
Carb, you are WAY sadistic. You must be an AWESOME DM!
Yes, I cannot agree more. The best was when the purple pillar of flame appeared in front of the party and they began rolling initiative. I let them, and even rolled for the fire (?) only to have them figure out, eventually, that it wasn't an attack - just disconcerting how it appeared right in front of them and then disappeared after they'd edged past it. The giant lung, the building licking its "eye" and the screaming buildings were a huge hit in the creepiness. Also, I'm playing with the optional Sanity rules, so by the time they got icked by the skin avalanche, the female character ended up with temporary Spermatophobia. She played it well, too, refusing to allow anyone to touch her, even for healing.
Wow, it's really cool to know that another group took a similar path with this. Well, just to follow up, someone pointed out that Awaken shouldn't work because the purple worm is not an animal, it's a magical beast. However, I thought it was such a clever I decided I would allow it under one of two conditions, and both came down to the Will Save: 1)If the caster rolled a natural 20, or 2) if the total on that roll was double or more what was necessary - which I didn't think was possible anyway given the purple worm's HD. However - they met BOTH criteria! Natural 20 AND twice what they needed. They needed DC 10 + the animal’s current HD (26). What I hadn't counted on was they had the Periapt of Wisdom from the recovery of the Sea Wyvern (Nixie in our game). Plus, after charming the beast, rescuing and healing it, they were reasonably able to get it to "stay" through then night - long enough for the Magic User to teleport back to Sasserine and trade for Cloak of Resistance and a Crystal Mask of Mind Armor (I know it seems implausible that the mask would be available for trade, but it was for unrelated in-game reasons). Yes, these items do stack - all different kinds of bonuses. I was shocked, but had to honor my original plan. It will be interesting to see how this goes. Tomorrow they are doing "recon" on the kopru settlement and the ziggurat and may begin their assault. I'll keep you all posted.
While I agree with the notes about metagaming (i.e. how would they know in RP?), I think it's still important to give the players some insight into what's going on. It's not terribly different from awarding XP - the players have an idea of how "good" they did, and they know what their goal is (i.e. how many XP 'til next level). That being said, I split the difference. I shared with my players how the battle would go; the concept of victory points and how their actions affected the overall battle. It actually severed to encourage them that this huge battle was being dealt with in a clever and measurable way. I further had a board on the wall where, as they completed a task, I would list it with how many VP it earned them. What I did NOT tell them was how many VP they need; I explained that this simulated the fact that their characters knew when they had improved their chances, but at no time did they know with certainty they were going to win or even if they could. My group seemed to love this whole chapter and felt that the BoF was the best big-scale combat they'd ever participated in.
It’s uncanny how similar this is to something that is currently unfolding in my game. The party has stumbled upon the purple worm encounter in Lightless Depths. They had several ways they could attack it (literally and figuratively) or just walk away. However, one of the players threw out the idea that maybe they cast Charm Monster on it, free and heal it, and then use it against the kopru. The rolls were perfect and I had no cause to not allow it. I did want to throw them a monkey wrench (no pun intended, literati), so I had a patrol party show up and attack (after all, they were making a great deal of noise trying to break the spire to free the worm). As a side note, one of the main PCs whose player couldn’t make the game secession, failed his save and was Dominated by the Kopru, turned and attacked the Druid. The Druid’s player had used many of his spells, was now injured, might or might not have been able to put enough distance between himself and his comrade, and he seriously considered Baleful Polymorph as a non-lethal, though permanent option. (As a joke, I told the player he went with that option, even though he didn’t). But I digress. The party finished off the scout party and eventually freed and healed the charmed purple worm. They now want to cast Awaken on it in the hopes of convincing it to help them wipe out the kopru without having to destroy Tlaloc’s Tear (They really don’t feel great about awakening the aboleth). There’s a lot of obstacles, and even if the awaken works, it won’t be easy, but if they manage to pull it off, you KNOW this is going into the Savage Tide Glories thread.
Ah, I see. I didn't know that DWP was a mid-level campaign. Yeah, I think after making deals with demons to fight other demons, the players would probably prefer, at +20 levels, to start taking on some demons directly. I may have to start thinking about some epic level adventures...
That's JUST what I needed - gosh, especially exactly where to look; I know I need to read ahead, but I didn't want to have to read all six of the next modules just looking for references to Graz'zt. Thanks, HS. Thank you, too, Cibet. I did know from the previous thread about Graz'zt's involvement in DWP. Do you think that module is a good follow-up to the STAP?
So, I read a thread a little while back about Graz'zt not playing a huge roll in the STAP and why that might be. My question is (because I haven't yet read that far ahead) just how big a role does he play. More importantly, is his apparently minor role in as Tyralandi's patron really crucial? Like, if I make Tyralandi's patron some other evil demon (one from our campaign world) will it seriously mess up the big dénouement of the STAP? Any insights for me.
Adventure: Tides of Dread
Characters: Lefty, Malfus, Tolin, Zan, Kaskus
Character: Lavinia
Character: Ornrik [male dwarf - multi-classed, he's changed so many times IDK what he was, but he head spells]
I know. Really all it is is a synopses of each chapter. Still, you asked for it, you got it.
Dude, if I didn't already give it to you, then I'll just e-mail the bugger to you. All you had to do was ask, ya goof. :p
Thanks for all the ideas. Yeah, I did a Google search first before I came seeking expert help. Okay. I may have to just make some s*&% up.
So, I know that there is a ship called The Gallivant wrecked there. Anyone know any history? Is it from a classic module or something?
Thanks, Cain, but that's okay. I ended up getting it worked out.
As always, thank you you, Carb. You da MAN!
Does the STAP contain any stats for Mathalay? If not, anything give a clue to class and approximate level?
Well, after arriving at Farshore, my group still had to recruit the Olmans and Phanatons, deal with Zotzillaha, repair and recover the ship and obtain the weapons from the Temple of the Jaguar. Even though they did split up to do more damage, I think 110 days is a minimum. I just needed to determine approximately how pregnant Amella is.
Wow. Thanks everyone. No, that's okay, Carb. I'm daunted by all the math and ... you know ... thinking. I like Regi's nice round 110 days. It works for me.
I need some advice from you smart, out of the box type thinkers. In simplest terms, I need to figure out the time between leaving Fort Greenrock and the beginning of the Big Battle at the end of Tides of Dread. Yes, I realize that not everyone's campaigns went exactly the same; some added and subtracted encounters and even had whole side adventures. I need a ball park, though. Any thoughts on how I would BEGIN to calculate that? Anyone hazard a guess?
Got it!! Thanks so much!
I'm a believer in the KISS concept: Keep It Simple, Sweetheart! The more you change, the more work you make for yourself and the less you are taking advantage of the existing material - a prospect which tends to become a prospect of diminishing returns. As Luna suggests, ending the game at ToD is the most common option and it does not require any further changes (The Crimson Fleet is stopped, the distribution of Shadow Pears is choked off … done!) Then, if at any time in the future, you want to continue on, you can just pick up where you left off.
Thanks, so much, Guy. François, I don't know how else to you could send it to me besides email. Would that work? RFlatstone (at) yahoo dot com. I really appreciate it!
I've been gone for almost a year. Glad to see the story is continuing. Is anyone still accumulating a "digest." I know something was in the works back around page 12 or so...?Well, I do. A 143+ pages Word document, to be PDFed as soon as the story is concluded. But I won't share it unless Guy is OK with that. Matter of courtesy... WOW! That would be awesome! And, Guy, you better check with that Lidu chick, too. I don't think I'd like her when she's angry.
I've been gone for almost a year. Glad to see the story is continuing. Is anyone still accumulating a "digest." I know something was in the works back around page 12 or so...?
They return to Farshore to find that everything is a little bit “off.” Everyone is behaving strangely. Ultimately, they realize (perhaps just before it’s too late) that the inhabitants of Farshore are conspiring to sacrifice them to Dagon (i.e. get them into some grotto where an aspect of the creature awaits). In their absence, the entire town has succumbed to an invasion of sea spawn larvae (from the Ravenloft campaign setting. I think the book is Denizens of Darkness or Creatures of Darkness) introduced by the lich’s minions (he uses the larvae to create “living zombies”). If played out right, it should have a Wicker Man meets Shadow Over Innsmouth kind of feel to it with a strong “bodysnatchers” influence. So, they kinda don’t want to get gobbled by Dagon, the have to liberate Farshore from the parasites, then deal with the lich. (That’ll teach them to leave an enemy running around unsupervised).
Huuuuuuh. Lavinia's Diary there is a real deal clencher, it allows X much back story to be explained, and the breadcrumbs only lead further into the Isle of Dread. Feel free to make use of the diary, but you might want to edit it to fit your campaign. Our group had a love triangle thing going with Lavinia which is why some of the more recent entries are missing.
Also, if you guys are interested, I've posted a note on the site that tells the story of how the STAP got de-railed for several months by a cheating player in relation to that "Dark Knight" scenario I mentioned.
Oh, and if you do stop by, please drop us a note at our forum . It would be a big thrill for the players to have some feedback from “the fans.”
Wow, it’s great to see all my old friends again! And it sounds like we are all in roughly the same place in the STAP. That’s pretty cool. Carb, just to be fair, that TPK was Rob (Tracerbullet42), our DM at the time. I cannot take credit for it. On the other hand, I wouldn’t be surprised if you guys didn’t contribute in some subtle ways, even if you are unaware of it. I do have a lot of references back to you guys and this message board, such as my use of the dead seagull art.. In Book 5, Chapter 2 I do give a little nod to Turin. 3 In Book 3, Chapter 1, I make a subtle acknowledgement of you guys here on the boards. So I hope you guys stay with me, and watch for my winks and nods. Even the players have come to think of “those people on the Paizo boards” as an extension of our game; sort of the DMs chorus.
Yeah, we did the whole Sea Wyvern/Blue Nixie switcharoo for a very similar reason. The find the Nixie wrecked, most of the crew dead, but evidence that Lavinia and the Jade Ravens ventured into the jungle. So they send Amella in the Wyvern on to Farshore. Along with the party, Urol insists on going, Skald too, and Avner INSISTS on going, bringing his servants and horse (Lavinia, after all, is why he is funding this expedition - he HAS to protect his investment.) If you want to read how we handled it, please do!.
Luna! You remember me?? I feel so special!!! Yeah, the campaign got a bit derailed for a while there. Right after they reached Farshore, I had Rowyn return as a revenant and, to torture the main PC, she captured his brother (whom he doesn't believe is his brother) and his girlfriend (whom he didn't know was his girlfriend) and in a Dark Knight stolen plot line, he had to choose between the two of them which to save. One of the other players, a min/maxing griever whose cheating was wearing thin, ruined the scenario by claiming he had exactly every spell necessary to resolve the situation memorized, despite the fact that he wasn't high enough level to even KNOW some of the spells. We expelled him and took a long break. But now we're back up and running. There's more to the story, but that's the gist of it. So, yeah, stop by the site. It's really cool.
Well, I guess the easiest tip would be to start a wiki on a free site like wikidot (I strongly recommend AGAINST “Wetpaint” – it’s a virus portal with a less than friendly or helpful support staff) and just do it. Feel free to copy anything you like about my site. I would also recommend you not re-invent the wheel – feel free to link to any page on my site you’d like. One of the up-sides of a wiki is that you can have anyone you want contribute and edit. In other words – get your players involved, even if it’s only in maintaining their character information. Pictures! Plain text is boring, and sometimes just a cool screen-grab from Jurassic Park or King Kong goes a long way. Feel free to use any pictures on my site, but recommend against linking directly to my site for pictures. You’re free to do so, but if I decide to change my site and move the pic, it will effect your site as well. Instead, follow the picture information back to my Photobucket or Flicker page and grab the original pic (you should be able to get a permanent link there). Again, using my pics is better than re-inventing the wheel. Although, with one exception, I don’t have current character sheets up on the site, I recommend doing so. This way, when one of your players comes over and says, “I forgot my stuff,” you can just to your site and print another copy. It also helps if you need to NPC a character in a player’s absence. If you use Wikidot, you might do what I did and use another site for your forum. You have to create a forum from scratch with Wikidot, which I found complicated and, again, it’s re-inventing the wheel. These are all the things I can think of off the top of my head. However, my contact info is on the site, so feel free to ask if you have any questions, if I can be of any assistance or whatever.
By the way, Luan and Carb and anyone else who was following my old blog, I've actually gone back to the beginning and re-written some of the early entries to create a more narrative style. Now, I think, it's a much better read.
I've been away from the boards for almost a year, but I’m back. I’m so happy to see that many of my old friends are still here talking Savage Tide, and there are SO many new faces! I’ve re-launched our blog into a full-fledged wiki that I honestly believe is a potentially great resource for anyone running the STAP. The story, as it is played, is journaled here in narrative detail, so I recommend it only for DMs – the whole site is one big spoiler. Many of you (Luna Eladrin, Turin the Mad and Carborundum in particular) have actually contributed suggestions here that I have incorporated into our game. As of today, the story goes from the very beginning up to the recovery of the Nixie (I went with the Nixie-wreck option at the end of Sea Wyvern’s Wake, as suggested here), and I hope to finish Tides of Dread by year’s end. If you do stop by, visit our forum and leave a comment. Let me know if you have any suggestions of stuff that you’d like to see, especially stuff that might assist other DMs running the STAP.
Wow, I've been away from the boards for almost a year and was surprised to see this thread still bumping. If anyone is interested, I've detailed our entire story. Here is the beginning of "Here There Be Monsters" and here they start on the mountain pass and begin their encounters with Olangru. I incorporated many (most actually) of the ideas presented here as well as many others that flowed from my own sick mind. Hope you like it!
hmmm to go back to your partially out of rope-trick scenario. I would probably rule that the T-rex (ship, Tarrasque, earth) gets to make a grapple check to pull you out of the extra dim space. I once tried to grapple the earth. I was very drunk at the time. The earth won.
There's the Mad Turin we all know and love! He's sneaking out the back door. GRAB HIM!!!
I just thought of another interesting possible ramification of this spell. Again, consider that the “spirit” of the spell is as I outline it above. The original conception of the spell never intended that it would move – it’s a point in space. So, essentially, there is nothing there TO move. The question comes if a rope is dangling out (or a body part). So what about this: Part of the magic that maintains the integrity of the spell (i.e. eliminates possibly grizzly occurrences) is that, if the portal is open at all, regardless of whether something is in it or hanging from it or not (after all, the very air is “hanging out of it”) it is rigidly fixed – otherwise it would tear open the fabric of reality or some such. Nobody notices or cares when the spell is cast on a stage or in a town square, but when it’s cast inside a creature, that creature cannot move because the contents of his stomach – this extradimentional portal, is stuck fast. Of course, that means that the spell cast on deck of a ship leaves one dangling form the rope as the ship moves away, or a huge hole in the stern of the ship if cast below deck. You realize, of course, this is a fun thought exercise, but ultimately, when a discussion generates this much speculation, the DM just has to say, “This is how the spell works,” and “No, that doesn’t work,” or “Yes, that’s fine.” When the player asks why, the answer is “That’s just how the spell works. It’s magic. Moving on…” Translation: Rule 0. So you have to answer the question with a question: What does the DM want to happen? The answer to that question answers both questions.
You've hit on something - Where are they going to sell of magic items wholesale? If these theoretic Fire Trolls attack, say suring SWW, the won't find anyone with enough gp to flash at magical items - even once they get to Farshore. It will be a LONG time before the trade routes open up - and then only if the payers successfully make it so. Something to give them that much more incentive, though, huh? And I thought it was "mini-onions" with you. I feel so ... disappointed.
You could put put ninjas with flaming swords in there. Make them a group of assassins hired by the Kalanis after Bullywug Gambit. You could call them the Fire Trolls. Wait, that sounds kind of familiar...
Oh, man! I gotta watch Red Heat again. Ivan Danko: Do you know Miranda?
Grr! I just got rid of a player that played like that! It’s not an attack, readied or otherwise. You’re going to tell me you’re –let’s say - sealed in a giant Ziploc bag inside a big creature’s stomach. If you open that Ziploc, you explain how you have “partial cover” from the acid. Stick your hand out and you definitely take damage – automatic, and it causes Dexterity loss as your hand melts. Come on! Just the fact that the DM is allowing the casting of Rope Trick inside a creature should be enough. It’s an escape; a place to hide. You can’t be completely safe AND attack. Sorry, Curaigh. It’s not you I’m arguing with. I’m just venting smoke from another fire. If you want to get technical, I don’t really get why stomach acid does ANY damage. If you were really swallowed whole by a creature (assuming it doesn’t bite or chew), you’d suffocate before the acid did anything more than irritate your skin. It takes hours for stomach acid to have any substantial impact on flesh, and days for a body to be completely digested.
I have to agree wholeheartedly with Luna. First, it is an Adventure Path – It’s one solid story that takes the characters from (I think) level 1 to 20. It’s not a hodge-podge of random modules thrown together with little or no connection. I cannot underscore this enough – there are story elements from the very first adventure that are referred back to in the third and fourth. There are seeded elements that are meaningless until later in the path. (e.g. “Hey, remember that tiki idol we found back in the lost city on our way here – over a month ago? Yeah, maybe that would help now!”) Second, as Luna mentioned, there are some flaws – or at least some minor tweaks that could be made to improve the story flow. All of those are outlined here on the boards. I don’t know of any other module or adventure that is as well commented as the STAP. When you run the adventure path, here on the message boards you have the equivalent of an army of play testers who have already worked out the kinks and upped the ante. There are some incredible ideas here – use them! Hope you all have fun.
You think you're comming back after the wedding? Good luck. Seriously, congrats!
Last session they were worrying about the lack of tar. One player remarked that they should not use too much oil, as they could use it instead of tar. I told them that the 2 characters with craft (shipwright) know that oil will not do, since it is too thin and fluid. Moreover, they have only a few flasks of oil, just enough to grease the steering wheel mechanism or do something similar. Yeah, oil is okay for treating the wood for the sake of waterproofing, but it does nothing to seal joins and cracks - that's what the tar is for.
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