Trip.H's page

So, the remaster changed darkwood --> duskwood, but did not take the chance to fix the absurdity insanity of the gold value.

This actually derailed a Strength of Thousands session for a lengthy tangent. The price is so disproportionately ludicrous, none of us players were interested in capitalizing on this, as it would still be too absurd to bargain through a partial value gain.

Note that the Cost of Living for adventurers claims that Comfortable is 52gp a year. The Earn Income chart shows that a L14 Master ___ at their most efficient will be earning 20 gp a day.

So, a single branch of a duskwood tree being 500 gp of value kinda just breaks the world. How many statuettes of solid gold will adventurers retrieve worth less than a raw branch?
Even cutting that value to 1/10, an order of magnitude, it is still world-breaking at 50 gp per branch. A year of comfortable living for an adventurer.
A 99% reduction is still insane at 5gp per branch.

How do yall handle this? Pretend you never saw it? Try to RP some "fair" price? This is legit so much gp I cannot imagine many (any) tables actually just go with it, and allow PCs to harvest a growth of duskwood trees they come across.

There's even existing text talking about the lumber consortium harvesting these trees en masse, which deconfirms the possibility of these being magically spontaneous solo unicorn trees.
They are just magic trees that spread and grow slowly, but as normal trees do. This means that where there's one, there are many others nearby in almost all circumstances.

There's other material price issues when monsters have things like adamantine bones or whatever, which is where tables are more likely to stumble into this economy issue.

What do you do?

There are a whole lot of feats, spells, items, etc, where the effect looks good, but then you notice that some designer oversight torpedoes the effect's usefulness. They are (typically) not "broken" outright, but their functionality is crippled due to designer error.

Due to the rare Paizo errata that has fixed some of these in the past, it becomes a matter of not "if" Paizo makes such errors, but a matter of identifying "when" these errors occur. And what to do about them.

As an example, the Summoner feat Ostentatious Arrival was published back in 2021 in Secrets of Magic. As a 0A ability that added a bit of an explosion to your summons, it seemed fine at a glance. Except for the issue that Manifesting your Eidolon requires it to be adjacent, meaning that the Summoner would always damage themself with the ability. But hey, in theory, the feat still allowed for summon spells to place that explosion safely away, so it technically would not always harm the user.

Just recently, 3+ years later, the ability was improved with errata and no longer harms the summoner. This shows that such errors can be left for years before being fixed, further evidencing the notion that there are many such mistakes within the system right now, and that the game would benefit from them being patched.

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Are there / what are the circumstances where you decide "okay, that's gotta be a mistake" and ask the GM / tell the players to edit that text to "fix" that oversight?

What types of fatal flaws do you see as being clearly mistakes?

As an example that looks super blatant to me, the Mythspeaker AP added a new feat for Exemplar:

Topple the Titans [1A]

Frequency: Once per minute

Requirements: Your previous action was a successful or critically successful Trip against a creature at least one size larger than you, and the enemy became prone.

Even the greatest titans of the world are easier to kill when they’re lying on the ground. You’ve made it your mission to topple such giants and can make others fall with a force that shakes the very earth. The triggering creature’s toppling body shakes the ground, emitting a quake in a 10-foot emanation from their space. Apply the result of your triggering Athletics check against the Reflex DC of each creature in the emanation to Trip them as well. You do not need to have a hand free, and you do not lose your balance if any of your attempts to Trip are a critical failure.

RaW, you are a creature, and this toppling shockwave also affects the Exemplar. Just like Ostentatious arrival, this fatal error technically doesn't break the ability mechanistically, but it does render it as nearly self-sabotage. There's even the edge case of ranged Trip via Bolas, etc, to match Ostentatious Arrival's similar "still safe w/ summon spells" excuse.

So, the Fetching Bangles ikon has a forced movement Trans ability. How useful this is does vary quite a bit based on how the GM runs this.
And there seems to be no searchable discussion on this ability Embrace of Destiny specifically.

Choose an enemy within 20 feet of you. It must succeed at a Will save against your class DC or be pulled directly toward you into a square adjacent to you.

Does this allow the Exemplar to pick any square adjacent to them, which becomes the destination square?

Is the closest adjacent square to the foe the only valid destination? When multiple are equidistant, who chooses?

How do you run the forced movement rules?

[...] Usually the creature or effect forcing the movement chooses the path the victim takes. If you're pushed or pulled, you can usually be moved through hazardous terrain, pushed off a ledge, or the like. Abilities that reposition you in some other way can't put you in such dangerous places unless they specify otherwise. In all cases, the GM makes the final call if there's doubt on where forced movement can move a creature. [...]

Is a flying Exemplar be able to yoink foes straight up?

Do they immediately fall, or is there coyote time where the Exemplar can first melee Strike, etc?
(The falling rules are surprisingly lacking. When the 500ft of falling happens is outright undefined as far as I can tell. Only on the actor's turn? As soon as there's nothing under their feet, but only once p round?)

Does a free falling foe trigger a Reactive Strike?

There is bit of text in Move Actions that Trigger Reactions that rather hard-confirms the Reaction(s) happen before the triggering action thanks to painting an exception.

If you use a move action but don’t move out of a square, the trigger instead happens at the end of that action or ability.

And thanks to text on Disrupting Actions we know that actions, resources, etc, are spent upfront, and are *not* refunded if the action fails to complete.

Note that the below is not talking about "Disrupting" specifically, which is using a Reaction to block/prevent the triggering Action from completing partway through.
The below is instead breaking the needed conditions for completion; making the action whiff / miss.

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There is an unexplored, and seemingly dev intended, combo of Ready and Leap I've not seen nor heard of being used.

By all accounts, PCs who are willing to commit the 2A chunk upfront to Ready, can prepare a Leap action to hop away from a foe as soon as they commit to a swing.* While this is pretty dang harsh for spellcasters to attempt, hasted martials, especially Monks, may find this to be seriously desirable.

So long as the Leap exits melee reach, this would guarantee a 2:1 action trade, while circumstantially being a much larger benefit. Yet, because of how the bulk of the PC's turn is spent prepping for something that may not even happen, I don't think I can call this overpowered / ban worthy.

Note that the GM should *not* let the player trigger the Reaction after the attack roll has been made, as that would be peeking at the outcome and deciding after the fact. The dodge-Leap needs to happen after the attack is declared, but before any rolls.

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That said, I am bringing it up firstly to see if I am mistaken in the RaW reading here.
(Yes, I totally plan on doing Ready:Leap with my new Summoner next session if the opportunity presents itself)

I am also wondering if anyone has experience with this or similar Ready use, as well as if this has been banned / greenlit at tables you have encountered.

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The Ready action really seems like the gateway into a much more dynamic and chess style of pf2 play, and that sounds like fun to me.

So, this one has been bugging me for a while, and I cannot find a single thread attempting to decipher it.

The Treasure Vault codified a new term of "alchemical food" but never defined it. It mentions the use of the new lozenge and processed traits, but these are not definitional, and there are already "for sure" alch foods that lack these traits. So the presence of these traits can confirm an alch food, but a lack *cannot* deconfirm.

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To keep the matter brief, it seems the only way for an item to safely "be an alchemical food" is if it is printed in a book section labeled "alchemical food," like in that initial treasure vault book.

This royally sucks, and is kinda not okay, due to the items themselves not carrying this info. Some old items, like journeybread, are "presumed foods" by sites like Nethys, but I can find no textual reason it gets that categorization.

Now that we have Alchemist Feats like Numbing Spice Exhalation, and an entire Wandering Chef archetype built around this specific subgroup, this state of affairs is imo not okay.

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What rules would you use to define alchemical foods as a category? All comestibles that you swallow?

What items, including ones that existed before the category, do you think should be able to qualify as "food"?

While there is a rule that states "A familiar can have no more than one ability that changes its creature trait (such as construct or plant)."

as far as I can find, there is no restriction/conflict if one attempts to select multiple copies of many "staple" familiar or master abilities, such as Spellcasting or Spell Battery. This could significantly alter one's daily prep, and perhaps change one's view on the value of familiars as a whole.

The Spellcasting f.ability is perhaps most notable and worth discussing first, because for those PCs who do not regularly use their familiar's actions in combat, spending 1A to Command for a 2A spellcast can be seen as pseduo-action compression.

Choosing to slot that multiple times is costly, but the action time benefits seems to compensate for the much lower R spell limitation, especially for a turn 1 buff/debuff.

After one more polish pass, I finished up the Alchemical Pragmatist class archetype. It's now in the "content finished, but get as many eyes as possible" beta phase, so I've thrown it into a google doc open for comments.

Doc link here

The Alchemical Pragmatist is designed to be the smoothest play 3rd party way to help/fix the PC2 Alchemist, and is taken as an Alch-only Archetype.
This does mean it makes no change to the Alchemist chassis (so RF vial usage still sucks, same weapon progression, etc), but has the benefit of only requiring one to know / read each chosen feat to play w/ it. This archetype is all feats.

If yall have any comments, feel free to add them. Soon-ish I'll be making the fancy formatted version of this, and later commissioning a Pathbuilder + Foundry module. So be sure to add your thoughts before that finishes!
Comments also include mention of anything you think is missing that would really help the class out.

I might as well post the table-view abbreviated list of the new feats as a teaser to entice link-clicking and feedback. (other existing feats like Enhanced Familiar are added and accessible via Additional Feats!)

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Pragmatist Dedication
Distinguish yourself as an Alchemical Pragmatist and select your initial deviation.
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Preemptive Consumables 1
Trade Versatile Vial replenishment for creating consumables that can persist without loosing potency.
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Persistent Effects 1
Trade Versatile Vial replenishment for the limited ability to create effects that can persist beyond the Quick Alchemy norm.
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Knuckle Pinch 1
Hands can hold more than 1 bulk L item, which prevents STR based actions.
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Talon Glue 1
Unarmed attacks gain talisman and alchemical poison compatibility.
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Gunnery 1
Obtain first gun and proficiency, free basic ammo.
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Full-Fingered Draw 2
Flourish, 1A. Fill all hands to carrying capacity with items within reach.
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Pragmatic Research 2
Trade away research field discoveries for more pragmatist feats.
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Delayed Preparations 2
Leave daily Advanced Alchemy items as “infused reagents” that can be finished at a later time.
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Smart Throw 4
Use INT instead of DEX for throw-based actions, or to disable bomb splash. Adds concentration to the action.
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Side-Barrel Surprise
Flourish. 1A to both Reload and Activate pre-mounted ammunition.
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Flourishing Footwork 4
0A Stance*. Focus on your footwork, and become able to Step after Flourish actions. May choose to add flourish to Quick Alchemy.
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Primed Throw 6
Attack, flourish. Risk a throw to use bulk L items at range.
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Furious Footwork 6
0A Stance*. Focus on your attacks, and may Step with such actions.
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Bomb Sabots 6
Trade some damage to instead create bombs as Activated ammunition.
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Distant Stability 6
Prereq: Preemptive Consumable | Vial consumables remain potent when within 1 mile.
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Pseudo-Magical Creations 6
Gain ability to make alchemical imitations of some magical consumables.
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Dedicated Pragmatist 6
Gain a level 1 or 2 pragmatist feat. Trade select Alchemist class features for more pragmatist feats.
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Potency Infusions 8
Trade Advanced items to infuse equipment with your Alchemist DC.
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Reactive Repositioning 8
Prereq: Flourishing or Furious Footwork | Gain a Reaction to Step after hostility.
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Polymorphing Overdose 10
Prereq: GM permission | Drink raw Versatile Vials alongside mutagen to polymorph into a battle form.
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Double Activation 10
Flourish, 1A. Take penalties like reduce reach to Activate 2 alchemical items in one flourish.
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Speed Swallow 12
React to incoming hostility by consuming an item.
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Echo Alchemy 14
Additive that creates a free copy of the consumable the next turn.

This seems like it can either add a huge amount of interesting depth to the use of some Trans abilities, or it could be disruptively overpowered, depending on one's perspective lol.

The first 2 Trans abilities that jump to mind are the Marathon Dash, which allows you to Stride, along w/ granting an optional Stride Reaction to all allies in 10ft. That is pretty crazy when put into a Reaction.

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The other one at a glance that's similar is the "get over here" yoink from the Bangles. If you spend an extra action to Ready it, then you can steal extra foe actions by waiting for them to move/act first.

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A separate rule question about Ready itself. The example case seems... a bit too good / powerful.

The Ready activity lets the acting person choose the trigger for their readied action. However, you might sometimes need to put limits on what they can choose. Notably, the trigger must be something that happens in the game world and is observable by the character, rather than a rules concept that doesn’t exist in-world. For instance, if a player says, “I Ready to shoot an arrow at her if she uses a concentrate action” or “I Ready to attack him if he has fewer than forty-seven Hit Points,” find out what their character is trying to specifically observe. If they don’t have a clear answer for that, they need to adjust their action.

This makes it seem like one could Ready the Bangle's yoink with something like "a foe tries to melee swing at one of my allies" which is appropriately visible, but seems to allow one to disrupt the triggering action by rendering it impossible (assuming the foe fails the Bangle save). Is there some catch I'm not seeing about that? Or perhaps there is a common houserule, such as refunding the triggering action, or perhaps a houserule that all Readied actions must happen after their trigger?

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Ready or not, my on-the-shelf "never die distraction" Exemplar is for sure swapping to Bangles, as single-save forced movement looks better the longer I think on it.

Condensed as tightly as possible: if a player says that they want to use a flavorful magic item or graft, but can/will not because it is too low a level with an unusable DC, how would you respond?

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I'd like to seek advice on a particularly large elephant in pf2's system.

Like spells, skill checks, and more, magical equipment and items often force foes to make saves. Yet, while most player-made effects have some means to increase the DC of the save as levels go up, items do not.

This means that it is the level of the item that determines if it is of substantial benefit to it's wielder. While a magic item may even be +1 above the norm when bought/found right when its level matches a PC, within a few levels, such item activations can become a waste of the player's time due to being too far below par.

Certain effects, like the Thaumaturge's class feat to, once per 10 minutes, use their own class DC in place of a magical item's put a rather noticeable lampshade on this issue.

Rather expectedly, this mechanic results in a norm where players almost never intentionally seek out items that invoke saves upon foes, and as players become more familiar with this issue, they treat such discovered loot more and more as "vendor trash" to be sold, not as a neat reward. Significant portions of each new book release only earn a scoff from players due to their own PCs being a higher level. Entire systems like siege weapons are rendered neigh-unusable.

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Not only that, but this bizarre insistence by the pf2 system for this static DC norm results in overly complicated rules that confuse players and GMs alike.

I was in 2 APs a while back, and in one of them, I had to apologetically explain that the story-looted Spellheart's spell DC was static for the slotted spell, and did not scale with the spellcaster who wanted to use it.

In the other AP, I had to explain that cantrip within the PC-bought Spellheart does in fact scale with a spellcasting DC. Because the item text of every single spellheart lies to the reader via "The spell DC of any spell cast by activating this item is [17]..."
The only way one can learn that text isn't the last word is by reading the rules for Spellhearts as an item group, where you get the cantrip exception from.

This is also why I have never seen nor even heard of a player choosing to obtain a higher ranked version of a spellheart for such a DC spell. Not even for a martial with just enough magical investment to Cast a Spell.

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While Spellhearts are still a great addition/competition for talismans despite this horrid clunk, there's another new group of items that takes this static DC issue over the top for me.

It's the Grafts.
We now have magical "items" that are invested by PCs via surgical integration into the hosts body. If this is done by an NPC, the players may very well not have access to a means to remove them.

Yet, even with Grafts, an entire fraction of them are essentially worthless to seek out due to relying upon static DCs. Even if purchased at their most expensive, right at unlock level, these grafts will almost immediately become clunky time sinks that will need a very unlikely foe roll to have an impact.

Something like Toxic Blood is a perfect example of a "game flow breaker" item that'll be a huge hassle for the table when a player (rightfully) asks the GM rolls the save for every incoming bite, even when the foe needs a nat 1 for the item to do anything.

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All that preamble aside; if anything, what does you table do about this design "quirk" of pf2?

Do you provide a means to change/heighten the item's static DC?
Example mechanical changes:

* quick, simple that still causes item DC to lag behind:
* * * adjusted DC = [listed DC] + [level gap to the PC]

* quickest, normalizes all items into the average: (spellheart spells seem to use this)
* * * adjusted DC = [DCs by level chart @ current level]

* preserve the item's initial above/below DC par (most "accurate"):
* * * adjusted DC = [DCs by level chart @ current level] + [static DC - DC by level @(old level)]

* simplest, reuse DC scaling rules of other mechanics:
* * * adjusted DC equals the greater of: Class DC & Spellcasting DC

* Unconventional momentary scaling:
* * * Can spend a hero point when DC is invoked to improve it for one roll

- - -

And does this DC change require a cost be paid by the PC to obtain?
Examples:
* All invested items improve. Can invest in non-investment items to improve DCs (such as Talismans & Spellhearts).
* Item requires 2 investment slots to improve.
* Item requires a Crafting check and gp cost to upgrade to an arbitrary level (still a static DC).
* All PCs can take the Thaumaturge class feat at any level. (bypass rule change)
* Add homebrew class/skill/general/etc feat that when taken scales item DCs. (Ex: Skill Feat: Particularly Invested: during daily prep, select one invested item and [heighten the DC]. You may acquire this skill feat more than once, adding an additional item each time.)

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Condensed as tightly as possible: if a player says that they want to use a flavorful magic item or graft, but can/will not because it is too low a level with an unusable DC, how would you respond?

There are a lot of items, like alchemical elixirs, healing potions, etc, with Activate(manipulate).

However, other items, like Dark Pepper Powder, have Activate(Interact) entries instead.

The differences between when each is used seems to be too consistent to be an accident.

The old Smokestick|Interact was even changed into a Smoke Ball|Manipulate in the remaster.

What is the intended difference in the mechanics of the two types?

Is one intended to be more restricted than the other? In what way?

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I'm am seeking out alternative explanations before I present my own best conclusion, but this seems to be a rather important detail that I've not encountered in a discussion before.

I will point to the GM core Treasure Trove section, with pg 220 being the Activating Items section, and smaller subsection of Manipulate Activations.

I'm playing my first 11-20AP, so I'm reading up on some of those high-lvl options.

If I'm reading this right, the boulder is created and displaces the primary target with no strike hit requirement. Though you will not get the damage, this seems a great tool due to the reliability provided by functioning on miss.

As someone who throws down Holly Bush Feather Tokens for instant cover, I also anticipate the 5ft cube being able to serve double-duty for that purpose.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1903

Boulder Seed

Item 12+
[Alchemical] [Bomb] [Consumable] [Splash]
Source Treasure Vault pg. 44 1.1
Usage held in 1 hand; Bulk L

Activate [one-action] Strike

This bomb is made of volatile fluids that rapidly expand and harden when exposed to air. A boulder seed grants an item bonus to attack rolls and deals bludgeoning damage and bludgeoning splash damage, according to the bomb's type. When activated, the bomb fills a 5-foot cube with hardened foam, which has stats according to the bomb's type and which pushes a primary target of a certain size or smaller occupying that space 5 feet away from you. On a critical hit, the target also falls prone. The splash zone fills with rubble, creating difficult terrain. The “boulder” the bomb creates fails all saving throws and loses 1 Hardness per round, disintegrating into fine powder when the boulder's Hardness is reduced to 0. At that time, the difficult terrain the bomb created also disappears.

Boulder Seed
Item 12
Price 360 gp
Bulk L
You gain a +2 item bonus to attack rolls, and the bomb deals 3d4 bludgeoning damage plus 3 bludgeoning splash damage. It creates a boulder as hard as wood (Hardness 5, HP 20) that pushes Medium or smaller targets.

Boulder Seed (Greater)
Item 18
Price 3,600 gp
Bulk L
You gain a +3 item bonus to attack rolls, and the bomb deals 4d4 bludgeoning damage plus 4 bludgeoning splash damage. It creates a boulder as hard as stone (Hardness 10, HP 40) that pushes Large or smaller targets.

The familiar rules are notoriously... incomplete in some ways.

There's been an increased discussion of how to play a Witch with a familiar in danger of melee Strikes due to the restrictions on the patron hex abilities.

To help Witch players and minimize headaches, I'd like to get some searchable discussion out there on what's RaW, what's not, and especially what is technically against the rules but most likely to be GM approved.

While the list of rules questions is longer than I'd like, I am trying to keep this limited to what will definitely need to be resolved at a table for a player to use the remastered Witch. To pick a specific Witch as a baseline that raises questions, I'll point to the Starless Shadow patron and their Familiar of Stalking Night:

Familiar of Stalking Night

Your familiar is dark of fur or feather, and light seems to disappear into it. When you Cast or Sustain a hex, and your familiar is adjacent to an enemy to which it's concealed, hidden, or undetected, the enemy becomes frightened 1.

Keeping a familiar directly adjacent to a foe is quite the ask, and that's not the only condition. The utility and reliability of such an ability varies greatly based awareness of a few oft-ignored rules, as well as a few unclear/missing combinations of rules.

Starting with what I think is quite RaW and helpful to Witches, are the cover rules. RaW out the gate, it seems that any Tiny familiar sharing a square with a Medium creature has the standard +2 cover, enabling them to Hide from opposing foes with no other requirement, and the option to Take Cover to upgrade that circumstance bonus into a +4.

I did not expect this, but it looks like the Remaster managed to delete any instruction on how to define a familiar's AC. Oof. I'll be using the prior rule that its "save modifiers and AC are equal to yours before applying circumstance or status bonuses or penalties."

What this means for a hopeful Witch player, is that a familiar sharing space with any Medium ally should have +2 *more* AC at baseline than the Witch, and with the option to spend an Action to Take cover for an additional +2. Note that RaW this is somewhat directional, dependent upon the Medium ally being in the way. If the ally is flanked/surrounded, some foes will not be hampered by the cover. Honestly, putting the Tiny token in a specific corner of choice could be a fine way to resolve that, leaving the 3 closest squares to have an angle that ignores the cover, while the other 5 would be hindered.

The Take Cover action also does not end when performing hostile effects, making it notably compatible with hexing familiars:

You press yourself against a wall or duck behind an obstacle to take better advantage of cover. If you would have standard cover, you instead gain greater cover, which provides a +4 circumstance bonus to AC; to Reflex saves against area effects; and to Stealth checks to Hide, Sneak, or otherwise avoid detection. Otherwise, you gain the benefits of standard cover (a +2 circumstance bonus instead). This lasts until you move from your current space, use an attack action, become unconscious, or end this effect as a free action.

Completely RaW, a Familiar of SN is able to Take Cover once, then spend any future actions Hiding under the skirt of any Medium friend while spreading the frightened condition, needing a Seek to be targeted, and then having a +4 to AC after that. With only the ability Independent, the FoSN already seems "doable."

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The first RaW problem or question is an old one for familiars. Familiars riding atop PCs. And if a familiar is allowed to ride atop a backpack without any complication/actions, would the Medium friend's movement break the condition of Take Cover? How does that carried movement affect a familiar's Hide?

The Concealed condition should also be mentioned here. While from a descriptive standpoint, it seems that it may apply, but I don't know of any specific guidance on what the threshold is for an "obscuring feature" to provide concealment, in addition or perhaps instead of cover.

You are difficult for one or more creatures to see due to thick fog or some other obscuring feature. You can be concealed to some creatures but not others. While concealed, you can still be observed, but you're tougher to target. A creature that you're concealed from must succeed at a DC 5 flat check when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect. If the check fails, you aren't affected. Area effects aren't subject to this flat check.

I could see a GM creating a house-ruled "Conceal" Action that is either a simple action tax or done by the familiar making one DC based Stealth check, instead of repeatedly needing to resolve Hide attempts VS every foe's perception (and perhaps repeating the rolls every turn).

GM ruling questions:
* can a familiar Take Cover under/behind a Medium ally?
* can a familiar ride atop a backpack/ect? How does that affect Take Cover?
* does/can a PC's long robe, ect, provide concealment?

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The next set of questions are based around the patron familiar hex abilites and what exactly they are. They are defined as familiar abilities, and not master abilities, so using the baseline assumption that these are things the familiar is doing, and not the Witch, seems appropriate. While it seems safe to say the familiar is "required" for the abilities to function, one in particular really puts the Witch as the active agent. FoFR explictly says "you can cause ice to form [...] [around] your familiar's space."

While some things, like a KOed familiar stopping all of the abilities (even for the FoFR), is enough enough to determine, other means of hindering/disabling the familiar are far less clear.

How should the familiar's little hex be classified for the sake of resolving action rules and disabling conditions? Is it appropriate to inject a house-rule label them as Free Actions? Reactions? Do all familiar hex abilities get the same classification, or are there splits between some of the more "active" ones such as Resentment's "your familiar can curse a creature..." versus rather passive abilities like FoSN's "enemy becomes frightened 1" without any written action by the familiar?

Some conditions, like:

You're frozen in place. You have the off-guard condition and can't act except to Recall Knowledge and use actions that require only your mind (as determined by the GM). Your senses still function, but only in the areas you can perceive without moving, so you can't Seek.

Paralyzed stop any bodily motion that a spellcaster would need to gesture, but does not block actions that are mental-only. Would a paralyzed FoSN still make creatures frightened?

And while a paralyzed familiar may seem rather niche, the familiar ability Absorb Familiar is why that particular question will / is causing headaches at tables.

Your familiar can transform into a mark you carry on your flesh, typically seeming like a birthmark, tattoo, or gem that vaguely resembles its normal form. When transformed, the familiar can't act except to turn back into a familiar. It isn't affected by area effects and must be targeted separately to affect it, which requires knowledge that it's a creature. This means you and your allies can heal or assist the familiar while most enemies stay unaware of its true nature. Creatures must attempt a DC 20 Perception check to Seek to realize a it is actually a familiar. Your familiar can still communicate its feelings empathically. Transforming the familiar between forms is a 1-minute activity that has the concentrate trait.

This ability's restriction lacks the mental ability permission of Paralyzed, yet does mention the empathic link is intact.

Based on Stunned, Unconscious, Petrified, and other conditions, it is matching the "can't act" language that disables creatures, and I think RaW it is pretty safe to say that absorbed familiars can't perform the magic needed to use their patron hex abilities. Otherwise, things get messy with Stunned familiars being able to hex foes.

However, the fact that the familiar is conscious enough to communicate empathically, and the undefined pseduo-action nature of the hex abilities has already resulted in arguments claiming the RaW says the opposite.

While I would be happy for any table with a GM to allow for a fun houserule or modification to enable a partially-absorbed familiar to use it's patron hex ability, I think that it's important to determine what the RaW is first before making changes to it, and especially before possibly repeating RaW claims online.

As the main goal of this thread is to provide help to Witches, I do want to add advice where I can, so I'll emphasize a helpful, missable rule on those hex abilities.

The benefit can occur only once per round when you Cast or Sustain a hex, and you can choose whether it occurs before or after the effects of Casting or Sustaining the hex.

This is especially notable for any Witch with a FoSN, as you will want to do both. If the FoSN has no cover/concealment, you can use your hex cantrip first to (attempt to) conceal the FoSN and allow the ability to function. Other times you will want to Frighten the foe first to reduce it's ability to save against your subsequent spell.

GM ruling questions:
* should the familiar hex ability be classified as a familiar-used Reaction? Free Action? Left undefined?
* is the familiar's hex ability disabled by "can't act" conditions? Some of the conditions? Is that for all the familiars?

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Other misc questions that don't need so much dang text. Many are easy answers, but ought be findable online:

RaW, companions (familiars + animal companions) cannot Activate any item, even with Manual Dexterity. I'm putting this here because while that's repeated all over, the actual rule is not often linked, and is in the Companion Items section:

[... companions can wear/use items with the companion trait] Other items can qualify at the GM's discretion, but a companion can never Activate an Item.

That includes potions and elixirs. That said:

* do you allow familiars to Activate items that seem "logically appropriate" (feeding comestibles like elixirs) ?
* do you allow familiars to benefit **from** consumables, like elixirs, used upon them?
* do sudden changes to the Witch's item bonuses boost the familiar? (thanks mutagens for making this a significant question. Drakeheart's +5AC in particular.)
* do you allow for familiars to "hide in the bag" and not participate in combat when desired?
* do you allow for mixing "hide in the bag" play with combat relevant effects, such as the patron hex abilities?
* do you allow Small PCs to offer the Tiny familiar cover same as a Medium, or must that size difference be there?
* can a familiar use foes for cover? Is a KOed Medium foe standard cover, or must they be upright and standing? What about a KOed Large foe?

* What other house-rules have you found to be helpful / headache reducing in the context of combat familiars and Witches?

So, the Puff of Poison cantrip:

Puff of Poison - - - Cantrip 1

{Cantrip} {Evocation} {Inhaled} {Poison}
Traditions arcane, primal
Cast [two-actions] somatic, verbal
Range 5 feet; Targets 1 creature

Saving Throw Fortitude
You exhale a shimmering cloud of toxic breath at an enemy's face. The target takes poison damage equal to your spellcasting modifier and 2 persistent poison damage, depending on its Fortitude save.

Critical Success The creature is unaffected.
Success The target takes half initial and persistent damage.
Failure The target takes full initial and persistent damage.
Critical Failure The target takes double initial and persistent damage.

Heightened (+2) The initial poison damage increases by 1d8 and the persistent poison damage increases by 1.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=977

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For some bizarre, unknowable reason the cantrip has the {inhaled} trait. Literally the single non-poison thing to have the trait.

An inhaled poison is activated by unleashing it from its container. Once unleashed, the poison creates a cloud filling a 10-foot cube lasting for 1 minute or until a strong wind dissipates the cloud. Every creature entering this cloud is exposed to the poison and must attempt a saving throw against it; a creature aware of the poison before entering the cloud can use a single action to hold its breath and gain a +2 circumstance bonus to the saving throw for 1 round.

Even if we ignore that the trait seems to self-exclude itself to items, the mechanical functionality of this trait creates an impossibility with how the spell seems to work.

.

The spell has Targets 1, and does not seem to involve affecting squares at all. There is no delay to the spell. There is no duration entry.

With no delay to the spell, there is no means by which even the spend Action --> +2 mechanic of the inhaled trait could ever function.

Unless.

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If the inhaled trait was supposed to affect the poison puff in some way, such as create a cloud hazard that lingered for 1 minute, then the inclusion of the trait would make sense.

Is it supposed to? "Once unleashed, the poison creates a cloud filling a 10-foot cube lasting for 1 minute or until a strong wind dissipates the cloud." The otherwise awkward entries of a range of 5ft and Target 1 could be proofing the spell to function with Reach and other metamagic.

Is this intended to create a lingering cloud upon the spell's target as per the trait?

I must say, that even though I have had this spell slotted into one of my Chirugeons for thematic reasons, I literally never cast it once, so adjudicating the spell has never happened.

Honestly, considering how restrictive the spell is, and how bad both poison damage and Fort saves are, and that persistent damage does not stack, a lingering cloud seems like it might have been intended, and would place the cantrip closer to par balance-wise.

Thoughts?

This class remaster unifies, improves, and in some areas simplifies, the existing Alchemist class.

No longer must one feel the need to be an item dispenser, nor scroll through a massive item list before deciding on what to Quick Alchemy.

The basic class formula is intact with prepared items and in-combat instant items (even still uses INT + Lvl infused reagents), and those familiar with the existing Alchemist will have no trouble adjusting to this glow-up.

To keep this as brief as possible, here's a list of *some* of the design changes in the pdf.

Research Field steadily unlocks unique and thematic items and Additives on odd levels so you don't need to spend precious Class Feats on niche Additives.

Additives by default are (Trigger: you made an infused ____) NOT Quick Alch only. Meaning all items can get more potent Additives as they fall behind in level, and the old anti-synergy with Quick Alch is dead.

Infused Alchemy is unified under Reservoir of Quintessence, which carries an item trait of your Field (Bomb, Healing, Morph/Polymorph, Poison)
* 10min auto-refill, can drain Reservoir via Siphon Creation to make insta-item, *must match class trait, gets +item level for improved Additives over prep items
* can daily prep 1 extra Reservoir with 2 infused reagents, so Bombers could carry 5 insta-alch pools, Mutagenists only the 1
* old daily prep infused items can be made at any time w Tools & 1 min. Infused reagent base batch = 1, if matches Field trait +1, if made w/ 10min & Laboratory, +1
* All infused items now decay when no longer attended by Alch, "end of next turn" is same for Siphon Creation insta-items. L6 Feat to bring back old item dispenser mode

Many new Feats and items designed to fill in the gaps of the old Alch's kit. Meaning, Field-specific Reactions, some item Reactions, and:

Knuckle Pinch: Alchs can hold multiple blk L items in each hand, starts at 2, +1 each -->expert, master

Full-Fingered Draw: 1 Act flourish to fill hands up to capacity. Quick Bomber is dead! (Quick Draw is there at L2 if desired)

Siphon Creation can be done as a flourish free action!

Many new Feats & Field unlocks are also flourish to compete with both the super-Draw and the 10min insta-item.

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Some old Alchemist Feats are outright deleted, but I made a real effort to remake and preserve as much as possible, even when the base Feat concept is problematic / broken (Miracle Worker being completely worthless until someone **is dead**, that kind of thing).

Every difference between this and the old/current Alchemist has a reason behind the design decision that I'd be happy to answer.

My current plan is to solicit 3rd party publishing with a polished version of this that includes the rules around the Dedication and those Feats. The moonshot is to get some piece of this in front of Paizo to make it into official material.

I do plan on keeping the boring document version free to access/read online.

Here's the link, will need to download the pdf to get the internal jump links, table of contents and such working

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12QtH0c4iLmJRZ_HFtodCjRODkSYFeigL/view?usp= sharing

So Treat Condition invokes the counteract rules, and has text: "You can't treat a condition that came from an artifact or effect above 20th level unless you have Legendary Medic; even if you do, the counteract DC increases by 10."

Meanwhile, the Curse trait includes: "A curse is an effect that places some long-term affliction on a creature. Curses are always magical and are typically the result of a spell or trap. Effects with this trait can be removed only by effects that specifically target curses."

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Treat Condition does not explicitly call out curses. Yet at a glance, it seems that most negative effects of artifacts are curses. Moreover, the Legendary Medic Feat also makes no mention of curses, only "an artifact, above 20th level..."

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Another odd bit that's within the Treat Wounds entry:
"The Medicine check DC is usually 15, though the GM might adjust it based on the circumstances, such as treating a patient outside in a storm, or treating magically cursed wounds. ...

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So when and what is supposed to be allowed to try to fight against a curse tagged spell's unlimited duration effect?

Would something as simple as Focus Cathartic be allowed to make a counteract check?

Would Holistic Care be eligible to attempt to remove a curse-trait spells effect?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1900

Very strange wording on the Ooze ammunition.

Ooze ammunition is a capsule containing a sticky substance. If you hit a creature with activated ooze ammunition, it deals acid damage instead of its normal damage type, and the creature then takes the listed penalty to Speed and persistent acid damage until it ends the effects. On a critical hit, the creature is immobilized for 1 round in addition to the other effects. The target can end the effects by Escaping the sticky foam. Other creatures can provide the actions, although doing so deals half the ammunition's persistent acid damage to the assisting creature. A creature that ends the effect still takes the persistent damage that turn.

Is that text saying that until the hit target spends an action to wipe the ooze away, it will continue to take the acid dmg, no chance to roll a normal recovery for persistent damage?

It seems rather unambiguous, but I've not encounter that kind of rule modifier before.

To be clear, the Escape DC is pretty dang low, DC 20 for the L6 version.

But, if this really does force an enemy to burn an action or suffer the acid, that makes it viable in a lot more circumstances.

My character in Amb Vlts is behind the curve in regards to damage, and needs to keep an eye out for consumables that might be a big help.

The Imp Shot magical munition seems exactly like something I'd pull out for a boss encounter, but the unwritten details are rather serious here.

Full relevant text c/ped for convenience:

Ammunition any;

Bulk —
Activate [one-action] command

This black-and-red ammunition contains an egg-shaped capsule. When an activated imp shot hits, the capsule cracks open and releases a manifestation that resembles a Tiny imp that can't act in any way or provide benefits outside those described here. If the Strike misses the target, the imp appears, makes a rude gesture at you, and vanishes in a puff of sulfuric smoke.

On a hit, though, the imp harries the target for up to 1 minute, remaining in the target's space, slapping, nipping, hurling insults, and moving with the target as it moves. A creature harried by the imp is flat-footed and takes a –2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls and skill checks.

At the start of your turn on each round while the imp is active, you must attempt a DC 11 flat check. On a failure, the imp makes a final vulgar gesture at the target and vanishes in a cloud of brimstone.

It seems safe to say this only costs 1-Action to use initially, then just invokes checks to persist, needing no actions.

I also think it's a pretty easy "yes" that aside from hitting the AC, there's 0 defense of the targeted creature involved in this effect, making it great for high-save foes.

Where I'm at a loss is that while some ammo lists means by which an enemy can proactively ~"Escape the sticky foam" w/ a listed Escape DC, this Imp Shot has only the flat check coin flip to end the imp.

The effect is "a manifestation that resembles a Tiny imp" and is not a real creature. Is it correct to say that the shot target cannot kill the imp, nor do anything to remove it?

Another smaller detail, it seems that the Strike that fired the munition still lands normally, including Strike damage, but I'm not 100% on that either.

Even at L8, that 24gp cost is equivalent of my Alchemist getting permanent access to another formula, so I could only afford 1 or 2.

It's the first time I've seen a 1-Action Activate ammo and genuinely thought it would be worth the price. I guess you could say I'm suspicious that I've actually found a combat consumable clearly worth the gp, aside from those Necklace of Fireballs.

Well, it looks like this should put the debate of the RaW/RaI to bed.

The Reload rules

... Reloading a ranged weapon and drawing a thrown weapon both require a free hand. Switching your grip to free a hand and then to place your hands in the grip necessary to wield the weapon are both included in the actions you spend to reload a weapon.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=228

Do absolutely include a "free" Regrip action for 2-h weapons that need reloading.

As discussed previously, this does make a big difference for Alchemists, and their Alchemical Crossbow.
It is 2-H, but you can shoot, drop a hand, do things w/ elixirs, ect, then later Reload + Shoot without loosing actions to the Regrip.

This "free" Regrip is what makes the weapon at all viable, IMO. It's still 2-actions per shot, and still limits when you can use that dropped hand.

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This rather appealing 1-H crossbow, the Sukgung, has an odd mechanic with using it in 2-H, and has text to specify that this mode switch is incompatible w/ the free Regrip inside Reload.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=341

Traits

Fatal Aim d12:

It’s possible to hold the stock of this weapon under one arm so you can fire it with a single hand as long as the other hand isn’t holding a weapon, shield, or anything else you would need to move and position, to ensure the weapon doesn’t slip out from under your arm. However, if you use both hands, the weapon can make fatal attacks. When you wield the weapon in two hands, it gains the fatal trait with the listed damage die. Holding the weapon underarm stably enough to fire is significantly more complicated than just releasing one hand from the weapon, so to switch between the two grips, you must do so with an Interact action rather than Releasing or as part of reloading.

Funny enough, I think using the Sukgung in 2-H mode functions the same as the Alch Crossbow in regard to dropping a hand and using consumables.

I'm not a fan of Quick Bomber, which lures Alchs into relying on bombs for combat. A L1 Feat that makes bomb-throwing 2x as good is nuts potent, but IMO it's a bit of a trap, luring players into only using bombs in combat. This is especially painful for the 3/4 non-Bomber Alchemists out there.

More importantly, this 2x bomb-only power jump means that the rest of the Alchemical items are left with completely 0 Feats or Features to help. Kinda hard to bother with something like a Sun Dazzler when Quick Bomber is still there. Elixirs, ect needing 2x the actions of a prepared bomb is seriously rough.

These homebrew options, alongside the Knuckle Pinch from another thread would be an alternative that promotes a more diverse playstyle, instead of bomb-only.

Absolutely looking for thoughts and criticisms. As a player I'd personally still go w/ Knuckle Pinch, but I suspect a lot of players might prefer the Fine Motor Frenzy for the more spiky cool moments.

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Combat commitment version:
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Fine Motor Stance: [one-action] [stance]

Abandoning defense, you focus on your manipulation of small items. While this stance is active, you are Off-Guard to all. You can Draw any item of L or lower Bulk as a Free Action.

When you reach Master in Alchemy, this includes any item of 1 or lower Bulk.

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Always there, lower impact version:
.

Fine Motor Flourish: [free-action] [flourish]

With practiced dexterity, you Draw or Pick Up an item of L Bulk.

When you reach Master in Alchemy, this includes any item of 1 or lower Bulk.

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"Nova" high impact version:
.

Fine Motor Frenzy: [two-actions]

Once per hour.

With a rush of intense focus, you enter a momentary frenzy of item use. As long as they are of L or lower Bulk and unattended, you ignore any Draw or Pick Up action cost, and can Interact, Activate, Strike, or Hand Off for up to 4 action cost. Stow and Reload are Interact actions.

When you gain Expert in Alchemy, this increases to 5 actions and functions with items of 1 Bulk or less. At Master, the actions increase to 6, and it can be done once per 10 min.

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To be clear, these would all be independent alternatives / replacements for Quick Bomber, and not a Feat line w/ each other as prerequisites.

As the most restricted, Frenzy could easily be offered alongside another Quick Bomber alternative.

I decided to pull these out into their own thread.

Basically, the Alchemist *needs* to be able to commit to their bit, and there's no good way to enable that. Just doing the Familiar: Dex + Independent has been a *huge* breath of fresh air for my Alch, and that's something anyone can do. I'm actually prepping healing elixirs now, which has made me realize how little I was using the class's core features in combat.

The action cost *needs* to be addressed.

This would actually give the Alch the niche of item-monkey, because right now anyone can use the Alch's items just as well, and some can do it better.

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The Alchemist's Grape:

1-H | Bulk: 1 | attack: N/A

This slightly-infused cluster of attach points can hold up to 7 Alchemical items of L bulk.

By holding the stem at the ready, if the Alchemist has a free hand, they are able to Activate or throw any of the attached items as if they were in hand.

Returning or attaching a single item to the Grape can be done w/ a 1-Action Interact.

The Grape's thread-thin connections prevent it from being worn or stowed in a container without unloading it.

If the Grape is dropped or otherwise falls to the ground, make a DC 11 check. On failure, one attached item is harmlessly destroyed at random.

(un)loading the Grape is a 2-H, 3 action interact activity, and all items to be loaded must be within reach.

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7 items because I think between bombs, elixirs, ect, an Alch could reasonably use all 7 and deck out during a fight. While the Grape is 1-H, any holding/wielding done by that 2nd hand blocks the Grape from being used.

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Another key thing I'd do is (eventually) delete Quick Bomber. But first, offer Quick Draw straight up, and add this as the L1 replacement for QwkBmr:

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Knuckle Pinch:

With a bit of training, you have become able to hold items between your fingers for use at a moment's notice.

So long as they are items of L bulk that can be activated or used in 1-H, each of your hands can now carry two without issue.

When you become an Expert in Alchemy, this becomes 3, at Master it becomes 4, ect.

Any time you draw, pick up, or otherwise actively put such an item in your hand, you can fill the hand to its limit at no additional action cost.

This Feat is compatible with Quick Alchemy and it's variants.

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A bomber using both hands would only be able to carry 4 in hand at combat start. Might be fine. Chuck 2 to free up a hand for other stuff, and only need to Draw after 4 bomb strikes.

If the goal is to let Alch's generally be okay keeping 1-H for non-class stuff, it's a bit borderline, might actually want to make this give +2 at the start, IDK.

IMO, a core issue w/ the Alchemist is that everything they use can be bought from a store, or handed to an ally. No matter how I swing it, I think any "fix" to the class needs to give them some Alchemist-only pseudo-weapon, pseudo-spell thing.

My goal was to make something properly Alch, give it a consistent structure on the front-end rules wise, and allow for each Contraption to be as much of a blank check as possible while staying within the type's usual theme.

All those ingredients led me to thrown-to-terrain deployables that are decided/prepped w/ Reagents each day, but can be refueled for multiple uses, and even in the worst cases, should steal an enemy action or two to smash.

This first pass was intended to a bit "one of everything" type listing, from a zone that invokes penalties to elemental typed saves, to raw utility like the Spectral Hand-Off.

The Enhancements are where things get real mad-scientist, such as enabling any Contraption to have it's elemental fuel type swapped for any other.

Overall, it really just brings the idea of item-fueled equipment from the Treasure Vault, gives it a formal structure, and actually makes them Alchemist-options, instead of once again letting any class use to full effect.

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Don't hold back, critique this however you see fit, whether that's one Contraption or Enhancement triggering an OP alarm, or some core rule.

https://scribe.pf2.tools/v/rvr6HTRd-alchemical-contraptions-v-1-1

I initially wrote this a while ago as a personal exercise, decided to give it a 2nd pass and find some tool to make match the pf2e formatting.

IMO, a core issue w/ the Alchemist is that everything they use can be bought from a store, or handed to an ally. No matter how you swing it, using buyable items is not a real chassis to build from. I remember someone accusing Alchemist of "being the closest thing to playing an NPC as you can get" and that kinda stuck with me.

My goal was to make something properly Alch, give it as much of a consistent structure on the front-end rules wise, and allow for the Contraptions to be as much of a blank check individually as possible.

All those ingredients led me to thrown-to-terrain deployables that are decided/prepped w/ Reagents each day, but can be refueled for multiple uses, and even in the worst cases, should steal an enemy action or two to smash.

This first pass was intended to a bit "one of everything" type listing, from a zone that invokes penalties to elemental typed saves, to raw utility like the Spectral Hand-Off.

The Enhancements are where things get real mad-scientist, such as enabling any Contraption to have it's elemental fuel type swapped for any other.

Overall, it really just brings the idea of item-fueled equipment from the Treasure Vault, gives it a formal structure, and actually makes them Alchemist-options, instead of once again letting any class use to full effect.

-----------

Don't hold back, critique this however you see fit, whether that's one Contraption or Enhancement triggering an OP alarm, or some core rule.

https://scribe.pf2.tools/v/rvr6HTRd-alchemical-contraptions-v-1-1

(May want to zoom in a fair bit on this website for readability.)

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1190

PFS Standard
Black Powder (Keg)Item 6
Source Guns & Gears pg. 169
Price 50 gp

A keg contains 5,000 doses of black powder and can be detonated in the same way as a horn. As long as the keg is mostly full (at least 4,000 doses remaining) this deals 3d6 fire damage in a 20-foot burst (DC 20 basic Reflex save). Detonating multiple kegs can increase the area, but not the damage, of this effect; detonating a keg and any horns at the same time in an overlapping area also doesn't increase the damage.

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While I've managed to find threads w/ references to what seem to be AP specific hazards/set-pieces, I cannot find the Bulk of this item (or the Horn version) anywhere.

The item is pretty tightly written to avoid shenanigans otherwise, and my little Alchemist needs to make use of every tool they can. If I can fit one in my bag of holding, I ought to be doing that.

Also might give me a chance to make use of Sovereign Glue.

I'm pretty new to pf2e, and I've finally come across what seems to be a common Toxicologist "strategy".

The claim is that slathering poison onto a blade or ammunition "activates" the poison, like popping a Smokestick. As anyone who's played with an Alchemist knows, the smoke gets to stay around.

According to the theory, this means that Perpetual Infusions can use Quick Alchemy to coat every single piece of ammo and compatible weapon for the whole party. Literally all of them.

With injury poisons like Clown Monarch that trigger at minimum 1 Prone fall each failed save (better than burning an action like Slow!), and with Quick Alchemy scaling the save DC, this invoked some serious "too good to be true" investigation on my part.

To rephrase this. With that ruling, any Alchemist can take a single Perpetual Breadth Feat, and apply 100s of GP worth of poison to the party, in between every combat. Every bullet, arrow, ect, gets a no action cost enhancement to its strike.

Anyone who's played Alchemist knows how stingy the rules are surrounding poisons, and that there's 0 chance it would be allowed. There's a Class Feat just to give a poison the chance to stay on the blade for a second Strike.

Moreover, that lil cheat gives me *less* reason to pick Toxicologist, as 90% of that Research Field's power budget would be locked into that "one trick a GM's sure to let you get away with" and I can just take one Feat as a Chiurgeon/ect to get infinite Clown Monarch.

.

The catch, and deeper reason why this seems undressed, is proving that's invalid means discovering that we've all been doing Quick Alchemy wrong. And none of us want to play with the RaW (and RaI).

There has never been any clause that separates the created item from the effects caused by using it. Nothing to say "you popped the smoke, the item itself is timed out, but the smoke stays the full minute."

Quick Alchemy:

You create a single alchemical consumable item of your advanced alchemy level or lower that's in your formula book without having to spend the normal monetary cost in alchemical reagents or needing to attempt a Crafting check. This item has the infused trait, but it remains potent only until the start of your next turn.

The Infused trait:

You created an alchemical item with the infused trait using your infused reagents, and it has a limited time before it becomes inert. Any nonpermanent effects from your infused alchemical items, with the exception of afflictions such as slow-acting poisons, end when you make your daily preparations again.

With the text saying outright that afflictions from a successful poison exposure are the exception, the cloud from a Smokestick, even the buff of an elixir, are all supposed to vanish at the start of the Alch's next turn.

This causes a whole lot more "bad options" to make sense, like the Enduring Alchemy Feat adding just a bit longer to that time limit (for the cost of an entire Class Feat!).

.

I've heard secondhand that there's been some crowbar rules in official PFS games, actually allowing the infinite poisoning, but Clown Monarch and Mustard Powder are "restricted" in specific. As yeah, that's rather game-breaking.

In conclusion, the currently live version of Alchemist was created with even more feat of Quick Alchemy than I had thought.

As always, jank that is left to fester will only grow worse. Right now, it's still small-ish, at a "some PFS approved rule breaking, but no not that one!" level.

.

Let's nip it in the bud now, and get the right Paizo eyes needed to fix this to notice it. It's hard to imagine that the Chiurgeon's super neat changes w/ the full Medicine --> Crafting stuff was higher priority, which implies they don't know it needs fixing.

.

Another smaller thing that needs a tweak. RaW, it's easy to read that popping an Inhaled poison onto a stationary enemy literally never invokes a Fort save against it. Either clarify that the initial poof does count as an exposure event (how my GM rules it) or that ending a turn inside the cloud does as well (my less liked option, but is more consistent w/ other cloud effects).

I'll leave the ranting about Double Brew and Alchemical Alacrity to the more senior Alchemists.