Triela readies an attack with her whip on the next enemy that enters range.
Spoiler:
d3 nonlethal
d6 shock
d3 nonlethal
d6 shock
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There is a difference being being combat heavy yet still acting completely in character, versus handling combat (and anything that might affect combat) primarily from a metagame perspective. As for knowing each other, I did get the idea we all jnow each other from somewhere. The strangers bit comes from the other game where differing expectations caused severe issues, so I was just using it as an example of how issues came from differing expectations, and why I wanted to get some clarification.
Triela sighs, and draws her whip, she readies a move to follow 10' diagonally behind whoever of the party moves forward.
Umm, just how much roleplay will this be? So far it is starting to look like we'll be playing a boardgame with the rp laid on top. Not a problem really, but it certainly requires a vastly different way of playing. I.E. don't bother attempting diplomacy with gargoyles. In game, Triela has no reason to assume the gargoyles are there for any reason other than to protect those entombed within, therefore, if she presents herself as not a threat to that, then she shoukd be able to avoid a fight. But yet, you roll initiative anyway, and everyone else doesn't bother to even pretend that a fight can be avoided. Also, Triela walked right up there and yet start of encounter has us magically all together again. If we are playing boardgame with rp filling the gaps instead of rp with combat that kinda seems similar to a boardgame, that'd be good to know up front, as the last time I got into a boardgame with an rp overlay, I didn't realize it until everyone started yelling at me for making decisions in character rather than based on the meta-facts. They apparently expected me to ignore things like the fact that our characters just met, and with reasons to not fully trust each other, and expected me to do things that my character wouldn't do because I wasn't supposed to let rp interfere with meta efficiency. I don't mind, but I'd like to know before a fight comes from it.
I prefer group initiative. Though might try perhaps just after the first and/or surprise rounds since those are the only rounds that initiative actually matters.
Triela looks to Summer, "We aren't in the dungeon yet." Triela walks up to mausoleum and says loudly, "I am not here for the trinkets of the entombed. I seek those who have entered what lies below the tombs and what they took from me and mine. Feel free to tag along to witness that I steal nothing from the entombed if you so desire." She is prepared for a response, hand on her whip, but it remains hanging at her side. If nothing happens she will enter the mausoleum.
"Have some respect! Not everything is an enemy and we are not here to leave a path of utter destruction in our wake. Especially up here where still folks are buried with respect."
What I consider unfair is handling of the rules, but encounter design, everything is fair unless you want the PCs to fight everything, touch everything, and take everything and still live.
"I'd leave it alone. I've heard of keys being referenced as bones before."
Triela seems rather unfazed by the terror tactic. She looks at the ground particularly around the well statue and buildings, watching for recent activity. She does look closely at the dwarf statue itself and the pedestal though.
Wait, you mean we might actually die?! Thank god, I thought this was going to play the ever popular "PCs never die" style. I've only ever had one character die and that was not really a fair circumstance. In any case last big shift for a while thank you.
"Careful, you're tempting fate, and history isn't exactly filled with those who lived happily ever after."
At the inn, a traveller walks in wearing sturdy but fine clothes, a circlet, and bears a crest of a slain demon, the theme of which continues across the clothes in silver on black. She is followed by an obviously well trained dog. She looks around, then heads for the sheriff's table.
Just how is there a bunch of gameplay posts without a new posts flag?!
In any case, Time for me to catch up.
So much for theories. I'll be working only 65 hours though, so not quite as bad as last week.
Sorry about slow response, I've been working crazy. 70+ hours this week so far. Oh and another 10 spent on commute. Still got two days to go, though theoretically, next week will be back to normal.
I'm not exactly sure what the point was in getting them removed. In theory they claimed the wisdom teeth were squeezing my teeth together, but as 9 years later my teeth are still squeezing together, even to the point of breaking fillings, I don't think wisdom teeth have anything to do with it.
"eloquently expressed" Well that is a first for me. As an autistic, I find it usually difficult to be clear with the written word. :) Don't worry, your head should feel right again rather soon. Actually, getting mine removed was interesting. Apparently when they tell you to count backward from 10 as they put you under, I'm the only one to make it to the number 3. The lady said it was rare for anyone to reach 5. :) In any case, get well.
And I just noticed, I didn't update the digital sheet. I'll do that as soon as I find out what I did with my paper copy.
As for reference, to imp familiar. I don't think that has been well handled. Faerie dragon entry at least says it can be used, but the other creature did not. And frankly, they should hAs for reference, to imp familiar. I don't think that has been well handled. Frankly, it is bad to do it that way. Instead they should have created a new feat for these other creatures or renamed the imp familiar feat with the new expanded list so looking up the feat used gives a complete list. I know of d20pfsrd, I try to use prd first though, first because my phone can actually display it properly with fewer problems, and second because it is official and I don't have to worry about 3pp (just official supplements are ridiculous. Adding 3pp as well gets even crazier). Thus I treat d20pfsrd as backup.
First, "of illegitimate free feats and skills, or class levels," is not true. The rules do not deny advancement to familiars. That is a common thing to deny, especially on the internet community (which seems closer to uniform than the offline world), but hardly universal. It isn't designing a game. It is making a gm call to cover something the rules don't explicity state and for which arguements and opinions can go either way, particularly given different playstyles (and playstyle can make a big difference). For example, I have played (very shortly) with some folks so far into the minitures combat adventure game, that they would have a problem with me and suffer confusion when I didn't take and use a potion for mere +1 to damage, or when I waited for a good time narratively before identifying a couple potions (cause my job was to do identify stuff. That was what arcane casters are for, don't ya know.). Combat for them was narratively bland. Traps were an auto-roll on disable device, without any care for what kind of trap, how it was triggered, nor how it was disabled. As far as those players were concerned, those questions were unimportant to the game. The only question they had was if they succeeded. Then they explain the results however. This type of thinking has many side effects, such as trap disablers settling for a mere theives tools, instead of tools, fishing line, wax, wedges, wire, etc. No more are traps an interesting piece of the adventure, no more is it merely a movable floor plate, now it's just a standard poison dart trap, roll and move on. While, some may find that fun, many have no idea that, that wasn't the original intent of the game and have no idea of what else the exact same rules can achieve simply by conforming first to the narrative and bending mechanics to suit. Nobody looks at +8 as world class fighter anymore. Now it is considered mook level. Playstyle has this effect. Same with familiars. You keep looking at mechanics, and trying to say how I can use mechanics to acheive mechanics. But as far aa I'm concerned, that is the other side of the street. I'm not looking for making mechanics work to get better mechanics, I'm wanting to form mechanics onto the narrative. To use narrative to determine what makes sense and what doesn't, and to bend mechanics to fit that narrative. Hence, flipping out familiars for the next model isn't good enough, because that is trying to achieve something in the mechanics and bending narrative to explain it, or to simply handwave it away. There are two types of games in the world. Games which explicitly state what you can do and allow nothing else (easiest example is chess), and then you have games that say what you can't do and perhaps fill in how to do something. Original roleplaying was the latter, but many have brought the mindset of the former and have thus twisted the game expectations (still can be fun obviously, but drastically different results despite the same rules). I don't think many players understand the difference and that is probably what led to the edition wars between 3e and 4e. They had different playstyles in mind when designed, but to players that don't understand the difference, all they see is what they are used to being drastically changed, and how well it fits their table. Players like to think that playing by the same rules should give the same experience, but that is false. So yes, for one who plays the mechanics and changes story to fit, perhaps their are other ways that work wonderfully to achieve some abstract concept of a mechanically better familiar, but to play the story and make the mechanics fit, those suggestions fail completely. Consider for a moment the story behind this. I was going to ask to make Filly (my bought and paid for guard dog) a familiar even though it is slightly outside the norm. Because if Triela decided to go through the ritual of making a familiar, she would naturally decide to use her long time companion. I wanted to know about advancement too, of course, because that determined how far I could go into leveling before making a final decision on whether to even have a familiar, and thus whether I needed to ask about Filly sooner, or if I could wait till later and think more on it. Clearly though I went with not since everyone seemed against the idea.
Kwin, just how do you get an azata? Imp familiar doesn't provide it. Also, that in a way is using mechanics to circumvent the main issue of gaining a more capable familiar. Instead of improving the one you have, you swap it out with an upgraded model. But aside from the narrative/fluff, what really is the difference between advancing a familiar and swapping out for a better one? Summer, again that is picking mechanics and explaining it away. What if I don't want a weasel? Also, gaining another feat is supposed to represent the master learning something, except this evolved familiar feat doesn't represent anything gained by the master at all, so why is it taking away from the master? Also, how is the familiar gaining additional feats at higher levels and how is that not advancement? And if you agree it is advancement, then why should only some familiars enjoy advancement but not others, and why only a particular method of advancement? Also, how are you getting imps and fairy dragons? (note to self: google "what in the haybales is a fairy dragon?") Mechanically poor vs mechanically better. Why not just allow the mechanically poor options to advance till on par with the mechanically superior options? Why should I have to disrupt the narrative relationship for the sake of mechanics? Also, given that the GM's job is to keep everyone evened out, why can't he be trusted to keep an advancing standard/improved familiar on par with these other options you guys are pulling out of the nether? I mean really, SLAs, special qualities, innate spellcasting, hands supposedly for using wands and scrolls. And yet you are complaining about a cat learning a few basic class abilities that are at most two or three levels behind the party, and for which key stats are unchanged from the master? I honestly not seeing what is so much wrong that. Now if you want to say that combining the two is bad, perhaps I agree, but that is easy enough for a GM to block without completely disallowing one of the two, all s/he has to say is that combining the options is not allowed. Then again, I imagine that those fancy options you present have higher cr ratings to begin with, and it isn't unreasonable to say that those options must stay even more levels behind the master, since there is likely some level prerequisite to gain them in the first place, that lvl amount can easily be the number of lvls the familiar must stay behind the master. That would help keep them on par for any given level of the master PC, and for any of the familiar options. It would also explain the more intelligent ones and why they would allow themselves to become familiars in the first place (same reason as cohorts being cohorts).
Couldn't take leadership yet, needs lvl 7. Also, it isn't just about rping with the familiar. What if I want to use the familiar as a scout or sabatour, yet lack those skills myself? Without advancement it is impossible to do. Also, the familiar doesn't advance any stats save int and sort of hp, it just uses key numbers from it's master. Don't know enough about summoner yet. Too late for this character anyway. But I'm not interested in the other summoner abilities. I don't need a bunch of summon monster SLAs, nor even the summon spells.
Two feats with a weakness. Not making optimal use is a concern of the other side of the street, and in my opinion, outside the design goals. Look, on one side (option 1) you create a narrative concept for a character and try to represent it within the mechanics. On the other side (option 2), you create something via the mechanics and try to explain it via the narrative. The second option will always be vastly more powerful than the first. The second option also has the problem that the more you try to balance option 2, the more difficult it becomes to even attempt option 1. DnD 3.x is clearly designed to be used with option 1. 4e is clearly designed for option 2. Every argument thus far has been given from the perspective of option 2, centered on the idea of how a mechanics focused player can get insane power from it. For me, I want a familiar that can contrast my character, not be a copy of my character. There is also the narrative to consider, why would a sentient creature that adventures with heroes remain as incompetent as your standard farmer when the master has reached the point of fighting demons and devils and casting wishes? Familiars don't grow, they don't expand, they don't ever complement nor contrast their masters, except that is just the norm gm fiat, as nothing in the rules say the familiars don't otherwise advance, only that certain stat numbers stay in line with the master.
Okay, clearly different play foci here. I ranted a bit, but I think 6 and 8 (maybe 7) are probably the biggest points I have, aside from the gm being able to block optimization even without blanket bans on things. Of course, before getting into anything else, it isn't exactly essential to character or anything, and I'm quite used to GMs who don't allow it at all. First:
First, I don't buy into the whole tiered classes thing. That is for the other side of the playstyle field from me. Second:
, familiars are a big weakness that more than pays for those two feats it grants (and init bonus isn't worth mentioning, really, especially not for a backliner like most casters). Third:
, using the familiar to deliver a beneficial touch spell is still very dangerous as it would be used only in combat, thus risks the weakness a familiar represents. Fourth:
, no idea what familiar archtypes are, nor have I heard about giving them evolution points or stuff, but still doesn't seem all that powerful to me. Improved familiar is one of only two familiar improvements I have known about, and it seems really weird narratively (cause I would totally "kill" my long time companion and friend just to get a wierd creature instead.). The second allowing one to have multiple familiars (about the only narratively sensible way to use imp familiar), which I don't know if that was ever ported to pf. Fifth:
, They can't really aid another for you except on knowledge checks. They don't have hands and so they can't exactly help you craft, they can't talk to others so they can't aid with social skills (except perhaps in dealing with kids), stealth can't generally be aided at all, etc. And using master's skills means they can't do anything the master can't do for themselves, thus they can't act as a team with counterbalancing talents. There isn't anything that you would use the familiar for that you wouldn't just do yourself (except perhaps sending a flying familiar to scout, but only outdoors). Sixth:
, the most powerful parts of gaining lvls or hd are overridden, thus meaning that a familiar gaining class lvls gains versatility but not much power as they don't get better on most saves, attacks, etc. Seventh:
, role. The role you refer to is mechanical role. I don't care two cents about mechanical roles. Mechanics should represent the narrative. Narratively, familiars should be way more than animal companions except for fighting ability. Familiars are sentient and have all that sentience comes with.
Indeed, some prefer to play games and force narrative to represent the mechanics, but honestly, I find such games to be less than satisfying, and often irritating, and I sometimes will quit such games if the other players go too far in that direction. I can however understand why some player of that sort could optimize to take advantage of familiars to be overpowered beyond all reason, but then such players can do that with any game element (gm willing) and generally the narrative suffers drastically, at least from the viewpoint of someone like myself who matches mechanics to narrative. Eighth: , familiars are not items. They are not something you get for the sole purpose of sticking in your pack and forgetting about just for a couple of purely metagame bonuses. They are not things to just swap out whenever you feel like a change.
That is why I asked. For some, companions only need what is explicitly given to keep up and be balanced, i.e. Druid's companions, (no idea about summoners as I never bothered to read that class), but familiars start pathetically weak and the handful of things they gain don't really add any power to them, so by 5th lvl they are nothing more than a wizards weak spot that provides an extra set of eyes. Companions, like from druid or normal summoning spells not only actually provide some power they get better at higher levels. I'll look up eidolpns though as never thoight how they might compare.
Familiars,
However, my gms that allowed advancement, just went with class levels as a cohort (though one gm did disallow full and medium casting classes). Shadow Clone, so it will be awhile before I get it, if the game lasts that long (I hope it does, but only the avalon game has lasted for any decent real life timeframe, and it has been only a couple days in game). The unchained what has what at lvl 4?
I'm sure a few things can be done to reduce the power, for example, requiring a concentration check when taking damage, fail and that clone dispels. Perhaps consuming a spell slot per clone. Treating each clone as a shadow illusion, (might even make the percentage of "realness" dependant on the number if clones, encouraging fewer clones.) It might be reminding you of a couple spells, one of them makes another autonomous you, but your power isn't split (I don't think anyway), and lasts for quite a while. The other makes a backup body so when you die you transfer to the backup body. I don't remember what they are called though, nor their sl. Either way, not quite what I'm looking for.
Familiars,
So I was just wondering how you handled that. Shadow Clone Jutsu. It creates multiple copies (and if I recall correctly it splits "mana" between the copies) of the user, basically allowing the user to be in multiple places at once. Some of the limitations though is that the copies have no special way to communicate, so they must communicate like they are actually different people. If two copies can meet and dispel one copy, then everything that copy learned is then known by the remaining copy. I don't know whether that knowledge is shared if a copy is destroyed or dispelled without contact to another copy though. I also am not sure if there is one copy that counts as the original, or if the last copy automatically counts as the original. My initial thought is to keep all stats and resources as a collective pool. Of course, permanent effects of worn magic items continue to function (such as a ring of sustanence), but limited use items such as wands or potions also basically have a common pool, so if one copy uses the wand, all the copy's wands have one less charge, or if an item is sundered, it is sundered for all copies, as though each item is one item that is in multiple places at once. You might reduce all effective caster levels to CL 1 to reduce the power of it (if you feel that is needed). Basically, it allows more action economy resources and allows one to use team tactics and teamwork feats with one's self.
I'll multiclass a bit. Thinking arcanist probably. How do you handle advancing familiars? (I'm referring to the stuff not covered by the rules.) Also, I'd love to have a spell similar to Naruto's shadow clone jutsu (though obviously fewer clones). Can we work one out?
If it really isn't important narratively, I'm fine starting at the city. It'll give me a rare chance to play mid level.
I have minor healing. As for starting place, I lack any particular knowledge of the module aside from what was in the recruitment thread. The intro area might be good to fill in bg, but I can swing where ever we start.
Yay! :) I of course need to bring up to 20 pb, and add bg skills, but otherwise Triela is ready.
I'd be down for either table.
I still have her. I can add bg skills and the remaining ability score points, if she seems like a good start to you.
I have this character. She is a preexisting character so I'll have to double check a few details though.
This bard inspires with speech, yelling to her companions to fill them with courage. "Do you want to live forever? Get a move on!" The profile has links to all her posts if you're interested. Also, I hate when people mix up spellings such as your/you're/yore.
I certainly don't feel good about continuing right now, but I would like my character to remain alive so perhaps I could come back in the future when things settle down with work.
Sorry for my absence. Lost internet for days, and trying to piece everything together and catch up. I'm sorry this game fell through, I did enjoy it.
The next morning Triela readies herself. She plans on discussing things with the cleric that diagnosed her mother, and has the note he left so she can find him. On her way out she passes the parlor and notices it has some familiar occupants. "What are you all doing here?
Spoiler: Triela tells her mother her suspicions about the cult and that perhaps they are responsible for her mother's curse. She asks her about any major political folks that might have similar feelings as the cultists. She then promises to find whoever is doing it and stop them.
Spoiler:
Triela seems unhappy but looks kindly to Eolica, "Please take me to her."
Triela looks troubled after speaking to the guard, but the gates open and as they walk through, "I have a family issue to take care of. There is an inn on Weathering Way, down that street, that is decent. I will seek you there in the morning." Triela then rather quickly heads towards the high end of the city.
"Good luck Silx." When Every has said their goodbyes Triela will speak to the guards, calling them by name if they are the regular guards for this watch, to get inside.
Triela listens and seems satisfied enough..for now. "It is interesting that a land ruled, in part at least, by a family that can hardly be called called pure should have such problems, ironic really. Though I wonder..." she looks over at Silx, calmly waiting. Triela wonders if there is a connection between her family's political problems and this cult. If the cult is supported or even just connect to the powers the rule, things could get worse then suspected. She should discuss it her mother.
"Indeed, it is getting dark and I wouldn't mind a nice bed again. However let's wait till Silx is finished, I get the feeling it is important. So, Adalric, why this country, and why seek us out?" Triela seems suspicious about Adalric, Voz may be a friend of her companions, but Adalric is a complete unknown, and Triela knows quite well how easy it is to "convince" someone to help with such a simple task as finding known associates.
"I'm fine, thank you. We shouldn't stay long. We have places to go things to do."
Triela preps a spell, moves in behind Rema, kneeling right in front of the bear, aims the pointy end of her shield at the bear and making sure she has it's attention she drops a Solid Note to back stop her shield and lets the bear charge her shield, though ready to adjust if the bear should go around, but that is also unlikely. Hmm, seems this bear is either controlled, a companion, not normal, or has cubs nearby.
Guess I should mention matching actions to words. Triela moves away now that the bear is stunned.
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