Tricnic's page

I am looking for a group to play with on either Friday night, or any time on Saturday. I am mainly looking for a group of well-behaved, mature gamers. In particular, I am looking for a good balance between mechanically challenging fights and engaging story lines.

I am willing to DM if needed, but I run another weekly game, so I would prefer to play as I have a number of interesting builds that I would like to try out.

I do optimize to a degree, but I try not to take it overboard, especially if the character would end up overshadowing the other characters.

A non-smoking environment is an absolute must.

Hmm, dodge AC would be an alternative ruling for Patron's Armor. While it stacks with everything, it's lost when flat-footed.

But, Dodge increases touch as well, which is really powerful.

Patron's Armor is more interesting if only available for x hours per day, in my opinion. Yes, it increases bookkeeping, but you will have to consider when to activate it and how much gold you want to spend on magical normal armor as emergency fallback.

I agree.

Question: Just noticed Fast Healing is Ex - are extraordinary abilites supposed to be unlocked at level 11?

I am thinking it should unlock with Spell-like abilities at 11th.

Remark: Breath weapon (Su) comes very late - might be nice to finish a dying troll, though.

Even at level 7, the breath weapons are piddly. I might want to rearrange how those abilities are regained, though.

Question: Do you allow the evolutions from Ultimate Magic? Unchained appearantly didn't, but there was no explicit statement about it.

I would say no for now, but a GM could allow it if he likes.

Question: How does Shield Companion work for this class - if at all?

Question: Same for Transmogrify.

Shield Companion will work as normal. It affects Familiars. If you were to gain an animal companion of a bonded mount somewhere, it would affect those as well.

Transmogrify works as normal, but it allows you to change your evolution points.

That brings up another question, as you are basically the eidolon now, should rejuvenate eidolon work on you? My gut says no, but it could be a level 20 thing. When you finally become an outsider, you can cast the rejuvenate eidolon line of spells on yourself.

Question: Evolution Surge doesn't work on Emissary himself, does it? Because there's fluff text 'share some of his patron’s essence with others' but no mechanical restriction.

I suppose I should put some verbiage in there. The Share Essence ability allows him to use Evolution Surge on others. He can cast Evolution Surge on himself any time as long as he knows the spell and has the spell slots remaining to cast it.

Remark: Armor from Patron's Armor is not attractive at low level here, but might become better later / with a more Dex focused build

True, it starts out weak, no better than a chain shirt at 3rd level, but it can be called at will, which can come in very handy during those late night attacks.

I don't want it to be natural armor because a +5 mithral breastplate on top of Patron's Armor and Improved Natural Armor (5) would allow you to have an AC that is 10 points higher than a fighter in +5 fullplate and a +5 tower shield. No matter where your AC ends up, 10 points is nothing to sneeze at.

The only option seems to be an Armor bonus. Later on, it will improve to be equivalent to +5 fullplate, with the downside of not being able to enchant it. I could start the ability sooner and have it advance quicker, but still cap out at +14...

Question: Does it act like permanent Mage Armor, meaning no armor penalty etc.?

More like the Dark Tapestry Mystery's Cloak of Darkness, but without the stealth bonus.

Question: Does it stop incorpereal creatures?

It is not a force effect, but a physical manifestation, so no. Mage Armor will still have that over it.

Remark: Renders Mage Armor spell mostly / completely obsolete at level 3, depending on answers.

That and wearing physical armor due to the lack of max dex, check penalty, and spell failure chance. I was considering giving it a 1 hour/level limit like Cloak of Darkness. The remaining incentive to using Mage Armor is that it applies to incorporeal touch attacks, which is something that Patron's Armor can't do.

Remark: Restricting only the amount of natural attacks allows quite a few attacks

Yes, but all those natural attacks are made at -5 (-2 at 9th) and only do 1/2 strength damage. Also, spending all those points on attacks leaves you short on utility evolutions.

Not sure how to handle the sheer number of attacks, though. It can get kinda crazy.

Remark: I just noticed Knowledge (Nobility) is a class skill. How comes?

I gave them knowledge (nobility) because when it comes to being an emissary, an envoy, or the like, it pays to know who the big wigs are. It lets you know who to influence in order to make things better for your boss.

One more change... I was going through the numbers and noticed that at high levels, the emissary was able to get an AC significantly higher than a fighter thanks to the stacking Improved Natural Armor evolutions and Patron's Skin on top of a +5 Breastplate. I want the emissary to be survivable in melee, but I don't want to overshadow the fighter too much.

As such, I am changing Patron's Skin to Patron's Armor and changing the bonus to AC to an armor bonus, instead of natural armor. This gives a comparable AC to a character decked out in +5 Fullplate and a +5 Tower Shield, but at the cost of 5 evolution points if the emissary wants to focus on AC.

For comparison: (not including rings, amulets, etc...)
20 Fighter with 20 Dex, +5 Fullplate, +5 Tower Shield, and Greater Shield Focus
40 = 10 + 5 (Dex) +14 (armor) + 9 (shield) + 2 (shield focus)

20 Emissary with 20 Dex, and Improved Natural Armor (5)
39 = 10 + 5 (Dex) + 14 (armor) + 10 (natural armor)

The emissary can further augment that with the shield spell, but as that consumes resources, I think it is acceptable.

Changes:

• I fixed a number of grammatical errors and changed wording to make it more clear.
  
• Changed True Emissary to act like Planar Ally, instead of Planar Binding. Also changed wording so that the spell-like ability is being cast, instead of it just being a standard action. Also limited it to 1 minute per level of tasks.
  
• Split Aspect into Patron's Weapons and Patron's Skin.
  
• Moved description of Dismissal and Banishment effects into the Patron ability.
  
• Still thinking of a name for the class. (Though, there is precedent of using Emissary as there are classes that share the same name as an archetype. Swashbuckler comes to mind)
  
• Changed the way the Weapon Training evolution works for this class.
  
• Removed line about not being able to take the Ability Increase evolution from the Evolution class feature. (You can take it, but it is limited to only physical abilities.)
  
• Added Multiattack as a bonus feat granted at 9th level.
  

1) 'Emissary' already exists as cavalier archetype.

D'oh! Well, the brainstorming for a name continues...

2) How do you want to handle archetypes and favored class bonuses? Paizo decided to give separate ones to its alternate classes, with the result of very little content for antipaladin etc. (at least for now).

I think I'd like to come up with a unique set of favored class bonuses. The Summoner FCBs are all over the place and a lot of them don't really work for this class.

Question: Does it gain vulnerability to cold?

I am thinking the familiar should gain its vulnerability when it gains its resistances/immunities.

Question: Is it possible to change evolutions at levelup?

Yes, it is possible to change evolutions at level up. I forgot to keep that wording in there when I revamped the class.

Remark: Aspect unifies two different bonuses (offensive and defensive), is splitting up the feature an option?

I don't see a real problem with splitting it up.

Question: Dismissal and Banishment are intended to have no effect on level 1 and 2?

You bring up a good point. While I had a hard time finding an instance where either of those two spells would be used at such a low level, I am thinking it would probably be more appropriate in the Patron ability.

Patron: Elemental, fire (rather strong one)

What do you mean by "rather strong one"? Does it seem like Fire is a better choice than other subtype options?

Thank you for running through an example build. I've been meaning to, but you know how naggy real life gets. I'm glad to hear the process is smooth and, overall, the character doesn't appear to be OP.

Thank you all for the input and the help with this labor of love. Due to the name change and the distinct shift in the core concept of the class, this thread, with its now inappropriate title, is done. I will still use the same link that the top, but I will be continuing the conversation at this new thread under a better title, so as to avoid confusion.

The original idea for this class was posted here, but the base concept of the class has radically changed and I felt a fresh thread for it with an appropriate title was in order.

The point of the class is to provide a means of playing a synthesist-like character without all the messy, complicated rules that came with it. This is an alternate class to the Summoner, rather than an archetype or hybrid. It gains evolutions as it levels up, along with a familiar that acts as guide and watchful eye over the emissary's actions as well as a few unique abilities that fit in quite nicely with the motif.

So, I present to you The Emissary

I have decided to use the name Emissary for now. I also updated some of the wording.

I am thinking about changing the spellcasting to something more like the witch, where the familiar actually holds the power and the essence shaper has to commune with the familiar each day to gain his allotment of spells per day.

At level 18, probably some restriction could be lifted - but I'd stick with the subtype restrictions, they make picking evolutions more interesting.

How about allowing Share Essence to affect creatures up to 1 step away in alignment at 18th level?

Further, there might be a balance problem with getting permanent flight at level 5.

That is a good point... What if I were to modify the evolution to require 10th level, or there abouts? What level is appropriate for permanent flight? The Druid can do it at level 8. (3 uses of wild shape per day at 8 hours a piece)

EDIT: Given it's pretty much an alternate class now (as Antipaldin / Ninja / Samurai), I'd go for an one-word name. Planarshaped? Essencer? Evolutioneer?

How about just "Emissary"?

More tweaks. I changed the Familiar ability and added progression to it to fill in some of the dead levels. I also gave the familiar something akin to the Twin Eidolon ability at 19th level.

Also, I'm thinking of changing the name, as Essence Shaper isn't quite right anymore. What do you guys think of Planar Emissary?

Lastly, is there a way to change the title of this thread? It really isn't an appropriate title anymore.

I kind of want to reflaver it with 1D8 HD and wisdom based hunter spells. I've looking for a loosing himself to the beast type class. :)

That could be interesting. I've had thoughts of a Druid/Barbarian hybrid (similar to Bloodrager) that wildshapes while raging. I could see that working well for someone who wants to play a werewolf.

Hmm, the level progression has some sequences of levels without class feats, especially from 5 to 7 and 17 to 19.

I ran a few more tweaks to the class based on input and suggestions. That has filled in some of those dead levels, but not all of them.

At 7th, you get +1 BAB, +1 Evolution point, and 3rd level spells, so I don't want to give too much more at that point.

15th and 19th level are very much dead levels. Any ideas?

If I give a limited Improved Familiar at level 1, maybe 7th, and 15th would appropriate levels to give the familiar back his stuff.

How about at 19th, your familiar gains the ability to become a twin of you, much like the Twin Eidolon ability of summoner?

Given that there are no iterative attacks and no two-weapon penalties with natural weapons, 3/4 BAB is already good. If someone uses manufactured weapons with many arms, most attacks won't be iteratives either. Further, you can easily compensate -1 to -5 attack bonus with a single spell (if you find the time to cast it).

If you want 6-level casting and the shapechange thingy, 3/4 BAB is perfect.

I was mainly considering the lower attack bonus, and not iterative. What spell are you referring to that can make up for the lost 1-5 attack bonus? There's Magic Fang, but that only affects one attack (not even one type of attack, just one of the two claws, for example). Greater gives a +1 on all natural attacks, but that's it.

Familiar from level 1 and scaling skill bonus sounds good. Skilled evolutions as full ranks is an interesting alternative - but keep in mind not everyone plans everything from the beginning. They might put several precious ranks into the skill, then decide to take Skilled and therefore end up with some wasted ranks. A player friendly version would be free retraining of the skill in question - fitting to the freedom of exchanging evolutions at least once per level. However, it doesn't feel like a must - Core bard with Versatile Performance doesn't offer it either.

I'll have to give that more thought. Right now, I am leaning toward +4 (+8 at level 11+) racial bonus from Skilled.

I'd rather stick with the Unchained summoner spell list. It seems rather balanced and has a few nice extra options like creating pits. If you want to stick with it: What effect do Summon Eidolon and (Lesser) Restore Eidolon have?

I like the summoner list as well, especially when it comes to buffing a natural attack focused creature. I would figure that Summon Eidolon and Restore Eidolon do nothing for this class. I suppose I could put in a mention about these spells, but not having an eidolon should get the point across for most.

If I understand it correctly, the summoner doesn't get extra HP (opposed to normal synthesist), does he?

I was always iffy on getting an extra pool of hit points, even if you can only heal those through Restore Eidolon. But, this is a front-line fighter and needs HPs to survive. That's why I upped the HD from d8 to d10. He's not going to have as much HP as a barbarian, but he'll be comparable to a fighter, with about the same AC.

play the sphere of power based shifter class

like seriously, its amazing at doing this. 3/4 BAB 3/4 Casting, but 100% crazy shapeshifting monstrosity.

Well, this class is isn't really about shape shifting anymore. Unfortunately, the title is a bit misleading now as the main ability of the class has (pardon the pun) shifted.

On another note: I was wondering if this class should have a better BAB. While you can go more of a skill-based route, most evolutions are geared toward melee combat, as is the Aspect ability.

If I were to bump this up to a full BAB class, how much should I take away from the casting? Bloodrager, Paladin, and Ranger are the only full BAB classes with casting and they are all limited to 4th level spells and unique spell lists, but they have some powerful abilities other than full BAB.

Option 1: Make sure the class' other abilities are toned down enough to allow for 6 levels of casting (maybe with 1 less spell slot per spell level per day).

Option 2: Make sure the class' other abilities are up to par with Bloodrager, Paladin, and Ranger and reduce the spellcasting to 4 levels using the summoner list (maybe come up with a unique list?).

First of all, thank you all for your suggestions! I really want this to be something cool, which is why I asked for input.

1) A level 1 dip in this class is very powerful: Base evolutions of unchained eidolons (worth at least 3 evolution points), 1 more evolution point, +1 attack & damage with natural weapons and +2 natural AC. Probably the base evolutions are already enough at first level.

There is a lot front loaded here. What if I moved Aspect down to, say, 3rd level? That would delay the attack and NA bonus. Getting a few evolutions, some spell casting, and a familiar doesn't seem so bad. What do you guys think?

2) I really like the idea of a familiar bound to the patron and you. However, it's kind of weird to get a temporary normal familiar at level 2. Perhaps the Essence Shaper should get the improved familiar early on - but without the usual resistances, damage reduction etc.. Or it won't fight for him until he has proven his worth (at level X).

I was feeling iffy about giving a familiar at 2nd level in the first place. It seemed odd to get it at 2nd, instead of 1st. Thematically, I want the essence shaper to get the familiar very soon, maybe even at 1st (with Aspect being pushed to 3rd), so that he has the patron's watchful eye right from the get go.

I really like the idea of the familiar being more active than the usual wizard familiar, in this case the creature would kinda be like the summoner and you would be the eidolon XD so it would be nice to see that interaction expanded.

I like the idea of the reversed roles, but then, how is it really any different from the regular summoner? Not trying to rag on your idea, I'm just not sure how to make that work and not be just like the regular summoner.

One of the points of this class is to have the evolution stuff without the huge increase in action economy that the summoner has. Getting 2 turns per round is crazy good.

3) Share Essence is a great idea also. Why not make it an important secondary class feature, allowing it early on? It could also be implemented by simply allowing to use Evolution Surge on other creatures. While this may sound overpowered first, keep in mind these spells are in competition to the usual summoner buffs (Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Heroism etc.).

I like the idea of being able to cast evolution surge on others. That would simplify the ability.

4) Is being a skill monkey an intended route for this archetype? If yes, the usual Skilled evolution (+8) might work well to give him an edge. If not, maybe completely ban it.

I image being a skill monkey as somewhat of a possibility with this class. You are limited to 4+ skill points, meaning you will have to invest a fair number of your evolution points to really make it work. I really don't like the idea of getting a massive +8 bonus straight off, especially at level one. I think a smaller bonus, initially, that improves is a better way of handling it for balance purposes.

5) As far as I got the standard rules, Ability Increase evolution works only once per ability. +2 charisma via evolution is not gamebreaking, in my opinion.

The way I read it, the eidolon could take it once for Str at level one, an extra time at 6th, an extra at 12th, etc... Then he could also do that with Con. Meaning for a whopping cost of 16 points (possible with the extra evolution feat) he could get +8 Str AND +8 Con. +2 Cha isn't game breaking, but +8 on top of magic and level ups could be unbalancing at the least. Now, if the GM rules that it really is limited to only +2 per score ever, then I see no problem allowing it.

An ability to burn evolution points as an immediate action to reduce/prevent damage. Have the points either gone for the day or return at 1 a minute after the character is fully healed.

That would be an interesting mechanic, but that would increase your paperwork as you have to keep track of which evolutions you lose, how that affects your character in the moment. Also, what happens if you want to burn only 1 evolution point and you only have 2-point evolutions?

Make share essence more simple and preferably break it up into smaller bits that you gain over levels.

I'm glad people like the Share Evolution ability. I'm thinking, give it earlier, and have it work like Evolution Surge (lesser) at first (improving to the regular, then greater later on), but I would like to keep the alignment restrictions. I'm thinking, only works on creatures that share your patron's alignment, on those that are 2 or more steps away, it causes the nauseated/sickened effect.

Scaling bonus to save vs effects that target the summoner's type ( humanoid).

I like this idea. It would make a good filler that is nicely in line with you slowly becoming more than human(oid).

I reworked it with my latest ideas in mind. I dropped Merged Form entirely in favor of Aspect and Evolution. I also added a couple higher level abilities.

I am thinking about giving the class a familiar (at 2nd, maybe?) and improved familiar at 7th or 11th (limited by the patron's subtype) as a sort of mentor/guide kind of thing.

A thought occurred to me: Why does it have to be a ritual that summons it? Why not just have it be the essence shaper permanently merges the patron's essence with his body and it's always there?

My idea is:
Ditch the whole ritual and summoning and initial bonuses.
The essence summoner gradually takes on more traits of the essence (gaining evolution points and Str/Dex bonuses as he levels) until at level 20, he becomes a true outsider.
Only form option would be bipedal for base form. That would normally mean protean is out, but I think it can be fudged there.
Doesn't gain the base form evolutions, but gains the Base Evolutions for that form as he levels based on the subtype chosen.

There's probably more to it, but that's what I've got so far.

I understand that, but I feel the existing mechanics need a lot of work.

I renamed Planar Shift to Maker's Jump and moved it back to 8th.

I moved Merged Form to 1st level and reworked it to try to simplify it. I think I could do more to simplify it, but I can't think of anything else at the moment.

Edit: Rereading it, I'm not satisfied with it. Maybe there's just too much going on in Merged Form to have it be one ability. Maybe I could break it up and simplify it that way.

I still need to come up with other abilities to fill in the dead levels.

The class is just so...bare. Even at 1st level, they get almost no class features. You don't get the main class feature until 4th level. Would anyone play a magus if they didn't get spellstrike and spell combat until 4th and 5th level?

I knew it was bare. I want to add more to it, but I'm not sure what would be appropriate power wise and thematically.

Merged Form as a sort of Barbarian's Rage mechanic. Still get the stat bonuses as you level, but more limited uses each day. (Also it'd make it a Summoner/Barbarian hybrid, not a problem, just pointing it out)

I'm not a fan of merged form. It's way too complicated, which is one of the big problems with the original synthesist.

Another good point. The Eidolon feature of Summoner is already complex enough. I want to simplify it somehow, but not sure on exactly how.

I'm not crazy about the planar shift ability, either. The name needs changed because it sounds too similar to plane shift and has nothing to do with changing planes. Also, it grants dimension door one level earlier than the wizard.

I suppose calling it Maker's Jump, like Synthesist called it, wouldn't be a horrible thing. Synthesist gets that ability at 6, but I agree that it probably shouldn't be obtained sooner than a Wizard. I hadn't considered that. I'm thinking move that to 8th level, then.

I suppose I should have put a disclaimer on the original post explaining that it wasn't completed and I was looking for input on how to flesh it out.

Before you collectively sigh and say "But we already have a hundred Synthesist patches, fixes, and reborns." let me say, this is not really a fix/patch/revamp of Synthesist, but a re-imagining. I love the idea of the Synthesist, but I really don't like how it was implemented. Paizo worked so hard to get away from the "replace physical stats" crap-shoot that was 3.5 polymorphing, then they go and bring it back in the form of the Synthesist? No...Just, no...

This is my first attempt at writing a class. I have been DMing in Pathfinder for years, but never dabbled in this aspect before, so I probably made mistakes. If you see something that could be improved, or needs to be toned down, etc... please let me know, but if all you want to say is "u suck an ur class sucks lol", do us all a favor and go somewhere else. I am looking for constructive criticism.

Here is the link to it: Essence Shaper

The most basic point of the class is to merge druid's wildshaping with the summoner's evolutions. The class does seem a bit bare to me in places, so input on whether it needs to fill in any dead levels is appreciated.

Items I am unsure about:

• Is the Aspect ability too powerful? I am thinking the delayed access of Merged Form, coupled with the decreased evolution point pool balances this out. It seems racial traits will get you abilities on par with most of the 1-point evolutions.
  
• Dead levels?
  
• Filler abilities?
  

To do:

• Write a better intro description
  
• Nail down the role (the access to evolutions make the options go bananas)