Thanks, mdt. I appreciate all the care you've put into this game. You've built a rich world here!
All my best to you, and to everyone in the party.
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Works for me. Heck, maybe his romantic awkwardness gets the most of him and he decides he needs some space from Violet.
I really appreciate the care and love mdt has put into this game. That said, I've come to the conclusion that Hero Games and PBP aren't a good mix for me. The pace (due, I think, to the way the game design work in a forum) just doesn't work well enough for me. (We're coming up on 10 months since this bank robbery encounter started in March, and 5 months since Rocket was KO'd in August.) I'm happy to play out Rocket's exit, if useful, but otherwise am ready to retire him. Some thoughts
2) Perhaps his injuries were more intense than they appeared, and he's died from them when folks come back upstairs?, or 3) Perhaps he gets reassigned to another site, in which case I'm happy to RP him saying goodbye. I wish everyone in this campaign the best, and apologize for the curve ball.
Hey, I'm still alive. Also still busy-ish, but not as crazy as I was in August when I was KO'd. Whenever Rocket recovers, I'm still here.
For the future we'll have to see if anyone has invented I'm thinking something like this as group gear that would be usable upwards of 4 times and then be gone forever (at least until we bought more with more XP)
mdt, at current tech levels,is it possible such a thing exists and is accessible to us?
Your call. I'll say, don't worry if the way things plays out keeps Rocket unconscious for a while; I'm square in the middle of that intense writing time I mentioned a bit ago, and will be for another couple weeks...and then on/off again for a month or so.
OK, stay safe!
Thanks for letting us know, Thunderbeard. And no worries, life comes first. (I'm actually heading into a heavy writing period at work as soon as I get back from vacation next week...so it's actually sort of convenient for me that Rocket is KO'd for some time.)
Maybe Mud and Aegis wait until a phase where Aegis makes PER (or Seg 11, whichever comes first) and then punch the wall together?
+1 to Pulse. Did you catch her saying that in character? Seems like a huge deal (assuming she hasn't closed the hole yet)!
I'm travelling right now (and also don't understand Snap's crunch particularly well). If someone else can beat me to it, please do! Otherwise if mdt (or someone else who knows) want to post which form she's in, I'll see if I can figure her out enough to play her.
Snapdragon is up. By the way, I'll be traveling today through the 23rd. I'm hoping to keep active for the most part but may not be able to predict absences so feel free to DMPC me (or if Violet or another player wants to volunteer to act on my behalf) if I take >24 hours to post in combat.
Rocket is definitely mortified right now. EDIT And yes, Rocket is cringing about what Violet thinks...not because of who Vi is but because of who Rocket is. Hopefully that comes through in the RP post I did.
"Whaa--whaaugh! No, I didn't mean--it's not what it looks like!" Rocket skids to a stop, mere feet from the exit. "Unngh, I'm really really sorry--stop squirming!--but I can't...unngh...let...you...go!" Glancing out the door at Violet (and both wishing he were still part of the mind link and glad he's not) he hollers "I'm sorry babe, this isn't--it isn't what it--oooy!! Even underneath his helmet, it's quite clear how red Rocket's face is...but he (barely) refuses to let go of the villainous illusionist who'd knocked him out less than a minute ago.
Cool, thanks. Assuming in the future I wanted to use Sleight of Hand to fake someone out on an attack, do I just roll it as part of the attack? Does it "cost" me something? Is there a penalty for missing on the feint?
As an aside, you've gotten me curious about the feint rules you use. I didn't find Feint in the core rulebook, and saw this thread discussing options for how to play it. This is a low priority Q at the moment since it isn't my action this turn...but since we know that Jester's tough to hit, it might be good to know about for me or others going forward.
Unable to see clearly, Rocket blinks for a second and focuses his mind. Doing so pays off as he manages to see Jester through her illusions. He runs toward her, feinting as though he's confuses, and then attempts to grab her without pausing and continues to run...
Seeing that Queenie is still encased in her shell, Rocket tries to run and grab Jester and carry her outside.
Can Violet sense when someone in the link is KO'd or otherwise 'hangs up'? Assuming she can, can Violet get LOS on Rocket from outside, to reestablish the link from her end?
Hotaru, you get no answer from Rocket, or any indication that he heard you.
It's too bad Snap isn't responding now, since she's got Queenie literally in her hands. That said, the plan in place was to try to force Queenie outside. At this point I'd suggest DMPCing her trying to drag Q out the door. Toward that end...is there a mechanical way for others to aid her in that? EDIT: about aiding...I realize Q will get to act soon if Snap doesn't move fast, so it's certainly worth Snap trying to get Q out the door unassisted right now, if possible...but I'm still curious about options for aiding Snap for future rounds.
Rocket lies still on the ground, continuing to catch his breath. As he lies there he attempts to reach out telepathically but realizes he's no longer in the mindlink.
Snap, just checking to make sure you saw this. Totally your call but (Especially given that the cables are pretty strong) I think your best bet might be to wait for Aegis to team-punch the wall. If they take it down, try to nab Queenie and carry (or, if you need to) throw her outside. I'd they fail on the wall, you can try to bust Jester's cable...or maybe just help take down the wall.
Pulse, I like your suggestions to Snap. I also wonder, could Snap follow through Rocket's suggestion and get Queenie outside (assuming Aegis and Mud bust the wall)? I really feel like it we can get Queenie away from her paper, we've mostly neutered her...and even if she's still powerful out there, Blaze should be an excellent match for her as she seems undefended against energy attacks (and fire has the upper hand in the battle vs paper).
Should I have run outside to get away from her while I took my seg 12 free recovery? Likely...but then I'm not sure Rocket would really do that. He's playing to win here, not playing it safe. ^ I definitely considered it; I just didn't think Rocket would choose that right now. That said, depending on what's going on in Seg 2, he might learn his lesson and head outside without Queenie to Recover, even if he doesn't see a way to get out carrying her. We'll see!
Alas! I knew there was a very good chance Jester would go for me, and it would be guaranteed to put me under. I thought it was worth gambling that perhaps she'd go for one of the bricks who could possibly bust Queenie's shell...but assuming Jester could tell Rocket was pretty worn down, she clearly made a good call. I considered just taking a recovery, but it would've had the same effect, since I wouldn't get it until the end of the segment so it would've ended the same. Should I have run outside to get away from her while I took my seg 12 free recovery? Likely...but then I'm not sure Rocket would really do that. He's playing to win here, not playing it safe. Anyway, I believe I'll be back up to -7+14=7 STUN at the end of this segment so I'll be back in motion again (at least until the next time I run into something or otherwise get hit by someone). ;-)
Great. Posted. I think Jester is up next (and Queenie has already used her seg 12 action).
"Aaaaugh!!" Rocket sees the wall appear too late to do anything but try to avert the worst of the damage. His head reels, and he only barely retains his footing. ::Dammit! Aegis and Mud, can you two crack her outta this paper nut? If you do, I'm going to try to grab her and take her outside. ::Blaze, can you be ready to blast her if she resists? Vi, can you explain to the police what we know of her powers?::
Rocket attempts to grab Queenie and take her out of the building, away from the doorway.
mdt, I'm so sorry that you felt flagellated. I didn't experience anyone's comments that way, but it matters to me that you did. I mentioned early on, but I'll repeat it since it's important to me: if you have feedback about when or how you like (or don't like) to get questions and clarifications, please let me know. I can tell it really seemed to you like we were complaining and/or trying to get away with something, when *I* thought folks were trying to collaboratively sort out some confusion and understand the game better. I know that writing is a poor medium to use, especially if one or more parties is frustrated. I also know that different styles work for different people and while there's not a right or wrong about it, it matters to me how people experience me...especially when they're giving generously to me (as any DM is, by definition)! The game matters enough to me--and your happiness as a DM matter enough to me--that I'd be happy to find time to get on the phone in the future, if that's a better way to ask you questions. I find it to be a less likely medium to be misinterpreted. At any rate, I appreciate you doing your best to answer my questions. Between what you + Pulse + Violet wrote, I understand what happened and how it works in the Game universe better now, which was my hope. Thanks for taking the time to talk it through. (I still don't know if I understand the rules for moving attacks quite as well as I'd like for the future. My uncertainty may be exacerbated by the real life group I played Hero Games with playing it differently--and it seems quite possibly incorrectly--but I'm fine with leaving those clarifying questions to another day.) For now, I'm resolved, unless others need something from me. My main Q at this point is to Mud and Aegis: are you two up for cracking Queenie out of her nut on 12? If so, I'll do my best to get her out of the bank.
Team, whether Rocket hit the wall or not (which I await mdt's ruling on) I'll still be standing and I have an idea for seg 12. What if Aegis and Mud coordinate to bust down the wall? Rocket delays until after and then tries to grab Queenie and take her outside. I'm not positive but suspect she's poorly suited against Blaze...and outside might be far enough from her paper that even the cops can handle her. What do you think?
Everything you said here is as I understand the rules as well: someone with a forcewall can put it on any hex boundary they want, and when it's done by aborting, it interrupts an attack. None of of that was what I was questioning, so I fear I wasn't clear enough. Let me try again. While Queenie clearly gets to block the attack, and place the wall wherever she wants in doing so, how does she make sure she gets it there when Rocket's only 6cm away? Based on my (limited, and possibly incorrect) understanding of the rules, she's guaranteed to get it up before Rocket hits her, but I don't understand the rule that says she gets to make it when he's 6cm away instead of 200cm away (given how fast he's traveling). In my mind, that's the variable worth rolling for. That said, at the risk of repeating myself, I'll look to you to adjudicate it. I just want to make sure you understand my question, and then I'll accept your ruling as DM. I'm done arguing. Fine, you abort your attack mid attack to avoid the wall, even though you commited to the attack. Just remember, I'm going to let the NPCs abort attacks that turn out badly for them as well. Place yourself anywhere on the board you want now. As I've said, I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to understand. If this whole thing has been too frustrating and you need a break before replying, by all means take it. I wasn't frustrated by the gameplay but I confess I'm getting frustrated by this conversation too. That said, when you're ready, I want you to explain how things work. When I've played Hero Games before, we've played that if one were running and saw something--given enough time--they could choose to change course. Sometimes there was clearly enough time and no roll was needed. Sometimes (e.g. flight with normal turn radius) reacting was impossible (so no roll could possibly help). Other times, it was a matter of reaction time and required a roll to react quickly enough. We might've been misplaying then...or you this may just be a grey area in the rules, where one needs to rely on the DM's judgement. What I really want to know is what I should expect going forward. Under what circumstances (if any) can I stop running or change direction based on what I see, after I tell you my intended action? In real life I know that I can at least attempt to avoid sudden surprises, if I see them...assuming I react quickly enough. Is that true in game as well, and if so what should I know about how that works? (If I'm going to play a speedster in your world, I think that's pretty important to know.) Thanks again.
mdt, you didn't answer my question about if it would take some roll or skill to make a wall appear 6cm in front of someone moving 40MPH (instead of further in front of them, or accidentally behind them)? Does that mean that no, no roll is required to do so? Can everyone with forcewall be this precise with it, or does Queenie have something in her build that allows it? As to how Rocket would think here, he has a good bit of information already:
Will he try to avoid hitting walls that pop up in front of him in the future? Most likely! I can picture exceptions, especially in life/death situations where he's inclined to risk more...but if he knows they're hard as concrete and that he's already pretty injured, he'll need a damn good reason to keep going forward. Let me know if you've seen something from me that seems to contradict that. We've talked about him buying extra head/shoulder armor that only protects vs movethroughs (as an earlier build had). At some point maybe I'll go that route...but Rocket certainly knows he's not wearing any of that now.
Ahhhh, your most recent post helps me understand how you imagined it. I hadn't considered Hulk-style a possible haymaker (I'd think of that more as a leaping movethrough) but it makes sense that one could do that too. I was only considering Thing-style, where he arrives in 9 and starts a swing, and his fist connects in 10. I think "Thing-style" is what Mud's describing in his most recent Discussion post when he says "Mud moved on 9. He starts the haymaker on 9". Do you need more clarification from him? Does he have a post that seems to contradict that? ---- Back to Rocket, you said "three inches in front of his nose, a wall forms out of nothing". It seems like it'd take skill to get it to appear exactly that close to someone running 40 MPH (instead of accidentally creating it 5 feet in front of him (or 5 inches behind him). What I was wondering is if there's a roll involved to make it so precisely close. I'm imagining perhaps she'd roll her Power Skill (or just OCV?) to make it as close as possible, and Rocket would counter with Acrobatics (or just a DEX roll, or whatever you think is appropriate). If it's possible to avoid the impact, Rocket tries to. If it takes a roll to avoid it, feel free to roll on my behalf, or tell me what to roll and I'll do it. If there was no way to avoid it, let me know if there's any way to coordinate my impact with the wall (e.g. a roll to change my angle or velocity just enough to synchronize with Mud). And if you tell me that there was no way to respond, I'll accept that answer and not ask again. (I just wanted to ask clearly and explain my reasoning first, especially since Rocket processes new visual info 100x faster than most humans and it seems tricky to make a wall appear *exactly* in front of a fast running foe.) Thanks again for reading, considering, and taking the time it seems to take to adjudicate this tricky encounter!
Ahhh, I didn't read it that way at all. If it helps, here's how I read it: 1. Rocket called for all interested folks to coordinate on 10.
He also mentioned that PBP makes this sort of coordination more confusing to communicate clearly than sitting at a table, which I certainly find to be true as well. In that post, Mud also throws out there that "If I had an extra segment, I could have haymakered, which is within Mud's demonstrated tactics." At this point it seems perfectly fair for mdt do either say "Sorry, you didn't say Haymaker so you just do a regular punch as part of a Seg 10 teamwork attack" OR say "OK, it sounds like if you'd understood the timing you'd have tried for a Haymaker. Let's go with that." I'd have understood and supported either ruling, but I got the impression that mdt decided on the latter. Now is where it sounds like you think Mud is going back and forth about whether to act on 9 or 10...but I think might just be a question or a difference of interpretation about how Haymakers work. Based on my reading of the rules, for a Haymaker to *land* on 10, it needs to start on 9. For it to start on 9, one needs to be beside one's target on 9. That means that Mud's action--if it was spelled out more precisely, and if you OK'd it being a Haymaker--would have read: "I move beside Queenie on 9 and start a Haymaker, timing it to land together with Rocket and Pulse's attacks on Seg 10." (If you'd said no to the Haymaker, his action would've read "On 10 I move up and punch, timing it to land together with Rocket and Pulse's attacks on Seg 10.") I see that there was ambiguity in the way that several of us wrote our posts, and I think that that created confusion...but I don't actually see Mud ever say he's not coordinating. (Given how confusing these past few segments have been, I can see why you might have read it differently, but hopefully it's helpful to hear how someone else read the same posts.)
Hey mdt, I'm sorry that you're feeling so frustrated! If there's anything I could have done differently--or that you'd like to ask me to do differently in the future--please let me know. DMing any game is a ton of work and I know this kind of crazy encounter is even more so! What do you want to do at this point? I could imagine any of:
I have a slight personal preference for B or C, but my BIGGEST preference is for what works best for mdt as DM, and I'll go along with any of those (or other things I'm sure I haven't imagined). I do have clarifying questions and ideas to discuss from your answer post to me...but I don't even want to continue contributing to that conversation unless you say it's a conversation you want to have right now. If you want to just let it go, I'm willing to do so (and if there are points of clarification I really want to come back to later, I can raise them when they aren't slowing combat, and at a time when you aren't feeling frustrated). EDIT: I realized I didn't say explicitly, I'm not upset or frustrated myself in any way. I think this is a tough encounter that makes me think, and I enjoy being challenged in that way. It's just that I need to ask a bunch of clarifying questions as I think through possible experiments to try, which I understand leads to extra work for you. I hope that answering those clarifying questions is OK and not frustrating for you, as I'm not sure how else to do tricky Hero Games encounters in PBP...but I'm very open to following your guidance about when and how to ask those questions.
It makes total sense that she'd abort to Force Wall, and it's a nice reminder for me to anticipate such actions. A few questions though: 1, I'll second Pulse, doesn't it make sense for Mud to do his haymaker damage to it? I'd have thought he'd have arrived beside her in 9 and started winding up. Then at 10 his punch would hit. Thus it seems like she could put a wall between her and his fist... But she couldn't prevent his movement, which would NEED to be on 9 to make the haymaker work, right? 2, Rocket has fast enough vision to make everything look slo-mo to him, and has zero turning radius on his run. It seems he'd automatically hit an invisible wall, and likewise wouldn't have time to slow vs a wall that surrounded him...but since it's visible and unless he's surrounded I'd think he at least get A CHANCE to change course. Maybe roll Acrobatics? 2a, Or maybe use teamwork roll plus our mind link to try to adjust my angle or speed just enough that Mud and Rocket DO hit it at the same time? 3, is the map up to date, including her position? I know this is a confusion encounter to map. I'm considering grabbing her and taking her outside (where blaze is a great match for her if she resists). I think there's a door open right now, is that right? Which? This has been A VERY complicated encounter for us, but I think I'm learning and it's interesting to experiment... EDIT
"Yoiks!" Rocket hollers as the paper rocket narrowly misses him and crashes into the pillar. On Pulse's signal, he runs back alongside Queenie, attempting to clock her with his outstretched arm just as Mud punches her and Pulse gives her a blinding zap. Rocket attempts to run right past and over to where he sees Jester, trying to hit her as well. ________________
Hmmm, just happened across another thing that might be a relevant rule change in 5e from what you're used to: Haymaker applies to any attack, not just punches. Th is includes Mental Powers and other attacks that don’t involve physical force. For exam-ple, a character could Haymaker his Drain STR, his Ego Attack, his Major Transform, or his Tele-kinesis. He could even Haymaker an appropriate Presence Attack in a situation where he suff ers the drawbacks from Haymakering (such as combat). The sidebar even notes: Flash: Haymaker adds +4d6 to any Flash, regardless of the number and type of Sense Groups affected. Given that Flash can be Haymakered...and that Rocket was still up...I assume we can go with our stated plan of having Pulse, Mud, and Rocket resolve together in Seg 10, yes? I'm getting ready to get on a plane, but should be able to post gameplay later today. Chaos Paladin, Attorney not Law has not participated in any online campaigns. |