TConnors's page

This is a fantastic offer, Wolfgang! And for charity too?! Nice.
For those of you who are unfamiliar with the Midgard setting and its Ennie award winning adventures, you are in for a real treat. I was lucky enough to win an adventure writing slot for the upcoming Midgard Tales offering, so I had to study the campaign setting. And wow! The authors including Wolfgang Baur and Brandon Hodge invested a lifetime of creative ideas in this thing. If you're like me and you need a springboard for new ideas, look no further. I think I wrote more ideas in the margins as I read the campaign setting than I can ever possibly use. And Adam Daigle did a fantastic job compiling the best and most inspired creatures for the Midgard Bestiary. These beasties span the level spectrum and many have the dark, Old World feel of Eastern European folklore.
I'm bumping this thread because I personally enjoyed these products a great deal, but take a look at the reviews too where professionals and peers say it more eloquently that I ever could.

Hey Preacher95!

Glad the adventure captured your imagination!

A remote region of Aldoran or Taldor might work nicely. Perhaps nestled in an upper valley of the Five Kings Mountains or a hidden slope of the Fog Peaks' southern reaches.

It may not matter too much if you are playing this as a one-shot prequel. But if you plan to play subsequent adventures where this one leaves off, you might consider where you want your PCs to begin that journey, and base your decision for locating this adventure on that locale.

Rone AND Lou!? I've gotta get this one.

However, there is a Pathfinder adventure written by Tim Connors, which is truly truly excellent. It's called "The Exorcists".

Aww shucks!

This may be the craziest adventure I've ever written. With a possessed gold dragon, an evil artifact, cursed items, and Rip Van Winkle 1st level PCs, maybe I should have titled it: "OMG We're all going to die".

The savant was developed over six months and several redrafts. I think it turned out really well, but I`d love to hear what others think. In particular anyone who rolls one up.

The savant article was my favorite article of the issue, and that's saying something, since there were so many good ones! I especially like that you managed to leverage time-tested mechanics from other classes--rules that players are already familiar with--as the mechanics behind fresh flavor, like the savant's notebook of knacks. Masterful.

I just learned of another review for those considering this product. Check out this great review at Fame & Fortune

The supplement contains some of the best material from the Old Margreve forest setting.

If you're the kind of person who loves lists of interesting NPCs, unknown creatures, and novel spells to surprise your players with, give this $2 supplement a try. Guaranteed to make your wilderness treks memorable, and in many cases, downright frightening.

This is also an inexpensive way to glimpse the level of imagination and utility compiled into the full Margreve Adventure Anthology and Gazetteer. Talented patrons and freelancers from all over the world worked together and riffed off of each other to develop some of the best ideas I've ever seen.

Great to hear that Margreve is getting such a positive response!

For those considering adopting the Margreve forest into your own game world, I can tell you to "go for it" with great confidence. One of our design goals was to make the Old Margreve as transplantable as possible. And one of the ways we made that happen is also one of the reasons it's such a fantastic place to explore: the forest and its mysteries, dangers, and treasures are self contained, unexplored, and untapped. The ancient forest's antipathy toward the taint of civilization has long isolated it from the kingdoms that rise and fall around it. It's a place where the precursors of "modern" creatures still tred, and Old World magic weaves itself. A place unkind to interlopers. And a dark hoarder of its own secrets. Besides a brief section that describes the forest's borders, I'd say the rest is 100% transplantable.

Yes, the horror has arrived in a cage called Richard Pett. Think you can write a better adventure than Mr. Styes? Now's your chance to try! Rich, my wife and I, and the other senior patrons of Open Design will be competing this week for a slot in Wolfgang Baur's "Tales of the Old Margreve" adventure anthology. Join as a regular patron to vote for your favorite pitches or as a senior patron to compete against us.

Lots going on. Right now, the patrons are selecting Slavic mythos creatures for the bestiary and inventing deep woods adventure sites. Senior patrons are starting to think about Old World spells and adventure pitches.

We're closing in on full commission, at which point the price of patronage goes up. Since this is Pathfinder, I wanted to give Paizo fans the first heads up that there's still time to join up and lend your imagination to the Dark Wood frontier.

I hear we're 75% commissioned already! I feel like I'm collecting tickets for the latest rollercoaster. Only, in this case, the people in line get to decide where to place the twists, turns, and screams!

Fabulous having Superstars on the Old Margreve project!

You'll feel right at home. Some brilliant brainstorms are flashing across the project's boards. Right now, we're talking about the fortified inns and crumbling griffon towers that dot the Great North road that bisects the Margreve. We're discussing dark fey and slavik dragons, daughters of Baba Yaga and old Green Gods. Patrons are voicing their ideas about the Old Ways, numinous forces, and Old World magic. Senior patrons are collecting superstitions, inventing Margreve locations, and wrangling creatures from Eastern European folklore into the bestiary.

This is a BIG forest. We're looking for more scouts. Can't wait for you to raise a torch and take us down another dark path!

I'm In !

Bienvenue, Francois! See you in the Margreve clubhouse.

For the latest Pathfinder project from Open Design, Paizo authors Tim and Eileen Connors are leading the charge. It's an anthology-style project, so up to 8 project patrons will be published designers by the end of it.

It covers levels 1 to 10 and the theme is the Deep Dark Forest: Tales of the Old Margreve. Currently seeking patrons.

Now that I see the names of the patrons pouring into this project, I'm getting more and more excited about realizing the potential of Tales of the Old Margreve. I can't wait to hold this product up to my players and say, "See this? You've never confronted a single monster in this book. You've never heard of any of the spells that will be used against you. You've never imagined the treasures at the end of the stories we're about to tell together. We're going to go into this book, and some of you aren't going to come out again."

Yep, it will have a POD option of some kind. Not sure what that looks like, because Tim is still talking about 2 books (adventure anthology plus a gazetteer), and I'd prefer one book combining the two.

But there will be print, yes there will.

How about one book combining the three: adventure anthology, gazetteer, and bestiary. Heh heh.

Thanks SO MUCH, you guys! Yes, I'll be the one at GenCon trying to get his big head through the door. :)

I guess I'd be a fool to pass up this opportunity to share the products that my wife and I contributed to over the last couple years--in case you want to see if you like our stuff. Here's a quick list of just the items that are available here through Paizo.

Siege of the Spider Eaters (Dungeon #137)
Escape from Meenlock Prison (Dungeon #146)
Black Waters (PFS #6)
The Blood Rush (SAW II - The Undead Chronicles)
Belphegor, Arch-Devil of Laziness and Invention (KQ #2)
Adriel, Angel of Hope (KQ #4)
Secret Messages (KQ #6)
Horrors from the 5th Dimension (KQ #8)
Ecology of the Vampire (KQ #11)
Telkari, Inevitable of Death (KQ #12)
Tales of Zobeck (An adventure anthology in the clockwork city)

Our work in KQ is 3.5/OGL, rules light, and very easy to convert to Pathfinder.

"Tales of Zobeck" is normally only available to Open Design patrons, but Wolfgang Baur and patrons made the anthology public after it won a Silver Ennie last year. If you've thought about getting involved in Open Design, "Tales of Zobeck" is a great way to see the quality of work that emerges from Open Design's patron-pitched, patron-voted, patron-commissioned projects. There's a couple of new Open Design projects being developed right now, including a Call of Cthulhu one we're working on called Red Eye of Azathoth.

Despite the fact that my wife and I have been writing for KQ since issue #2, this is the first time we've actually seen it in dead-tree print. It's fantastic! Totally exceeded my expectations, which I guess is why I've been doing pdf all this time. If you are considering KQ for content on the cheap, pdf is the way to go. Grab that free copy of KQ #10 and see what you think. If you want to hold something glossy in your hands, the print copy does not disappoint.

Wow! Just wow!

As a writer, I feel like I should have a witty rejoinder, but you've hit me with the blush stick and struck me dumb.

It's Mr. Jacobs that my wife and I have to thank for our fledgling freelance career. Were James not so generous with his time and encouragement, we wouldn't be having the time of our lives writing for the likes of Paizo and KQ.

Thanks DM Jeff and Eyebite! You've made my day.
And thanks James and Wolfgang! You've made it possible.

:runs to tell wifey:

Telkari, the Inevitable of Death

is such a cool piece!

It is my fave of the issue... then the specialty priests.

Thanks Fray! High praise, my friend! This issue has really set the bar up there!

Hi all,

"The Blood Rush" is my wife and my first offering through Louis Porter Jr Design. We're eager for feedback from anyone who's had a chance to read/play it. Do you like corrupted, necrotic regeneration as much as we do? There's some top talent following up the SAW 2 line, and we hope we kicked off the madness in style!

--Tim & Eileen Connors--

Thank you Hewligan for your kind remarks about Adriel, Angel of Hope in KQ #4. My wife and I really enjoyed writing it, and it was (I must confess) a welcome respite from internet research on devils. Let me tell ya, if I never read another death metal band's lyrics with Belphegor's name in it, I can die happy. I'll tune my mind into heroism, hope, and salvation any day! Here's hoping the Way of the Taper leads you, me, and all the KQ readers safely home!

I'm running Escape from Meenlock Prison and came across what seems like a glitch in the text. In Area 12 (Loading Bay), who is the "Awake Prisoner" pictured in the map? Area 12 is given an EL of 2, but there's no description of the prisoner. Also, does the elevator in that area work?

Hi Sarah,

My wife and I are the authors of Escape from Meenlock Prison. Sorry, we don't check the messageboards as often as we used to.
Indeed there was an awake prisoner hiding on the catwalk in the original manuscript. The editors (wisely) cut him from the text but forgot to remove him from the map. Here's the original text in case you're curious.

12. The Mouth of the Wolf (EL 4)
Four 10’ diameter, 12’ tall fermentation vats dominate the corners of this well lit room. A few feet above each vat, a 3’ square wooden platform is suspended to the ceiling by long steel pins. A 2’ wide wooden walkway connects the wooden platforms, forming a catwalk around the perimeter of the room. On the west side of this catwalk, a fifth platform extends beyond the room into a shadow-filled space 10’ high by 5’ wide.

From a door on the east wall, a long ramp leads down 10’ into this sunken, 25’ square room. There is a door in the center of the north wall. A metal ladder affixed to the south wall provides access to the catwalk. A DC 15 Spot check notices the shadow of a young prisoner on the platform centered on the west wall.

If discovered, the cautious but friendly Pren Quickirons asks the PCs to help him figure out how to lower the elevator cage in the west wall’s alcove. The 10’ tall cage is identical in construction to that in Area 1. Once lowered, iron bars built into its solid ceiling snap into sockets in the alcove, locking the cage down.

Pren recently became a local hero when he defended his hamlet from a werewolf attack. Fearing (correctly) that he contracted lycanthropy, the hamlet’s elders incarcerated him while they gather funds to pay a high level cleric to remove the boy's dreadful curse. The night of his first full moon is two days away. Sitting on the catwalk next to Pren is a small burlap bag containing two vials of silversheen that he stole from the guard’s desk in Area 3. He mistakenly believes they will prevent his transformation. He does not discuss the circumstances surrounding his incarceration and dismisses the bag as merely stolen valuables.

At a budding unconscious level, Pren was drawn here through empathy for the starving wolves locked within the elevator cage outside. Once trained to harry prey into the assassin vine field, the wolves have become feral with neglect. As Pren renews his noisy attempts to lower the cage, preferably when the PCs are on the catwalk, Finneus decides to put an end to the PCs and begins lowering the cage from above. Three rounds after the two frothing wolves come into view, the cage completes its descent, and the wolves push the door open and attack.

A target of a successful trip attack must make a DC 12 Reflex save or fall off the catwalk. Those not falling into an open-topped, wine-filled vat instead take 1d6 damage from their 15’ fall to the stone floor below.

Wolf (2): hp 8 of 13; Monster Manual 283.
Werewolf, Human Form: hp 20; Monster Manual 175.

Tactics: One wolf targets Pren. If reduced to 15 hp, he falls from the catwalk (taking damage if appropriate), involuntarily transforms into a werewolf during the next round, and attacks the nearest creature thereafter. If no living targets are on the ground, the raging werewolf disappears into Area 11 and beyond, forcing the PCs into a tense predator/prey hunt scenario once they recuperate.

In this original version of the adventure, there is no key to this elevator. The only way to use it to escape is to stuff something under it while it lowers. This has two effects. First, it prevents the tall elevator cage door from opening and releasing the wolves, and second it allows the PCs to crowbar it open, climb in, and then up and out while it's "between floors." In the published version of the adventure, the elevator does function with the key.

2) Siege of the Spider Eaters by Tim & Eileen Connors 137

-Except maybe for spiders, if this had vikings as well it would be 1st.

Didn't we mention that Captain Haven was a viking? Ah well.

Seriously though...thanks for the love. We're honored.

I think the question is: How many existing Paizo customers will disappear if Paizo stays 3.5? I wager (from a business perspective) it will be a negligible number in the first six months of 4e, a less than worrisome number from 6mo to 1 year, and a faction well worth considering thereafter.

From this thread, the associated poll, and other sources, two things are evident: Paizo has a strong following, and there is a great deal of apprehension about 4e. Paizo customers aren't going to cancel their 3.5 subscriptions and switch to 4e on day 1. But very many will want to know what 4e is all about. In those first six months, they will continue to purchase 3.5 consumables (particularly adventures) while they peruse the core books to see if it's a system worth switching to.

Some will decide to switch and look for Paizo 4e material. It would be great if Paizo 3.5 adventures had a corresponding 4e OGL download for stat blocks. And one or two top notch adventures solely in 4e OGL land. That would keep loyal Paizonians who want 4e products shopping Paizo at least for a while. Paizo could use this time to evaluate the 4e interest based on downloads and 4e purchases. And 4e customers who love Paizo story, content, and flavor have a reason to hang onto the company. Bottom line: play it be ear for as long as possible and be flexible enough to follow the emerging trend.

On a related note, I think 3.75 would be a huge business mistake. At least under that moniker. Unless 3.5 is hopelessly broken (and it isn't), it's all risk for Paizo and little gain. You wind up with a product that isn't compatible with 3.5 or 4e, and you risk alienating both followings. If it's not significantly different than 3.5, why bother? Why confuse customers looking for 3.5 products? If it is significantly different, you totally alienate the 3.5 people and carve yourself a smaller piece of the market pie. Plus, naming it 3.75 says to me "This will be replaced by 4e." Otherwise, what's the significance of the number?

Hmmm...I think I just paraphrased Chris West somewhat.

This character of yours isn't female is it? Because if she is, roll another bane because only men can be color blind. (Fantasy world? What's that? ;-)

From what I remember women can be color-blind as well, but they require both recessive genes. Men only require one. My maternal grandfather was color blind. His sons were too. My mother is not color-blind, nor is my sister, but my brothers and I all are. My mother passed us all the recessive gene, but only the boys evidence it.

It's cool to talk to another person who is color-blind, because I've found that they experience it vastly differently. It sounds silly to me that you could mistake green for white. Just as silly as my wife thinks it is when I say I can't tell the difference between green and red, colors that have nothing in common whatsoever. :)

I'm color-blind.

I see in color, not B&W. I can even tell you what color most things are. Give me a box of crayons with primary and some secondary colors in it, and I'll likely name them all correctly. The trouble is most often in shades of color. Give me a box of 64 crayons and I'll likely get 25% of them wrong. I mix up greens with reds, greens with greys, blues with purples. It's hard to describe how this happens. While it is truly an eye problem, I often say it's like I can see the colors, but some mental defect prevents me from labelling them.

Kids in elementary school used to torture me by removing all my crayon wrappers. And in 8th grade I indeed did draw a brown dragon and thought it looked perfectly fine. It's not that I intended it to be red or green or some other color, it just didn't strike me as looking "wrong".

I don't know how troublesome or realistic you want to model color-blindness in game. It can definitely affect spot and search where color matters and the subject doesn't move. A few years ago, my wife pulled the car over and said, "Wow! Look at that field!" She was referring to a green field filled with red flowers. I saw nothing striking whatsoever. The same thing happens every fall when the leaves change. I can't tell until its fairly advanced.

You'll notice that I said "where the subject doesn't move." Color-blind people use other context clues to compensate. I definitely use position and movement. I know that traffic lights have red, yellow, green where red is always the top or left-most light. I don't care what the colors are; I know where they appear in context. I'm also probably better than normal-sighted people at detecting movement. I once read that color-blind people were used to spot enemies in camo, because color-blind people are especially good at using movement, not color to detect and differentiate things.

To be honest though the real draw for me is the Princes of Hell articles...so f!**ing awesome. Wolfgang set the bar high last issue, and Tim Connors did not disappoint this time around. I mean, c'mon, how can you not get behind Belphegor, Baron of Laziness and Invention! It's like Robert Heinlein's Parable of the Man Too Lazy to Fail wrapped in hellfire. Delightful.

Ed Greenwood, Rob Schwalb, Skip Williams, and the list goes on. Good folk, I feel like a punk among them, and I don't usually feel like a punk. ;-)

You feel like a punk?! Holy Poop Batman! I'm like the only friggin' unrecognizable name in any of the issues!

Seriously, thanks for the kudos Nic. And I return the compliments to you. You have a real knack for powerful language. I can see the foaming barghests' jaws in my sleep now. ...ugghhh...thanks.

And for those just trying KQ out, hook Nic and I up with some feedback on our contributions. Good/bad, hit us.

--Tim--

Is it cheating to ask how many you received?

Just emailed you TwiceBorn!

And thanks again for the kudos on the adventure. We hope your players enjoy it.

***bump***

Tim? Eileen? Anyone else who has the requested info? Maybe I'll need to e-mail them...

Hi TwiceBorn,

Sorry for the delay. Lilith emailed me and said you posted.

That stinks that the Stanmer House website is gone. It had a really nice interface to it that let you see the floor layouts and look inside each of the rooms. I did save a few of the pics to my computer, and I'll be happy to email them to you. Just say where.

--Tim--

I read through Ashendale's situation and I love how he got them down there, very nicely done. How has the rest of it gone?

I had the privilege of meeting Ashenvale in person last weekend. I'm pretty sure his group hasn't finished yet due to scheduling conflicts.

I love the idea of meenlocks living on past the adventure. Kudos to you MrFish for scaling the adventure to such great effect. My wife and I actually wanted to include more meenlocks in the adventure, but because it was geared to 1st level, we were a tad afraid it was going to become overwhelming. Played right, these critters can be pesky and truly memorable.

Incidentally, you guys may be interested in an old thread on Meenlock Prison here. I love reading how different the experiences of various groups can be.

Hey MrFish!

Thanks so much! We're glad your players liked it. Those are exactly the reactions we were hoping for. We certainly had a great time putting the adventure together, and to get feedback like yours is music to our ears.
Sadly we haven't yet been able to break into the new Paizo offerings yet, but we will DMFTodd, oh but we will!! Never give up. Never surrender! Mwahahahah!

On page 17, the stat block for Lyle Benedict has a skill of Profession +5. Shouldn't he have a Profession in something?

I just checked the manuscript I submitted to Paizo. I didn't specify the profession there either. Hmmm...What do ya know?!

The Ochr-rk is a kobold trap-maker...

Making traps before birth - that's a clever idea Tom. I like it.

It was funny because before I fully realized where you were going with the idea, I imagined an uncracked egg with feet sticking out the bottom quiety side stepping away from the birthing fray.

Photoshop Sinestrokekk?! The kobolds will be powerless against Green Lantern!

So Ashenvale, you got me all kindsa curious - did your PCs get suckered into the cellar after all?

GGG and Ashenvale, I'd like to get in touch with you. Not sure what messageboard etiquette demands, so I'm hoping you'd email me some time. I'm at:
timconnors at ieee dot org

There is no record of a gold ever being born. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen; it just means no one talks about it. On the rare occasion of a gold's hatching, the affronted parents kill the abomination and dispose of it quietly. No one's the wiser.

When all but one egg of the king's clutch collapsed and rotted, the remaining one was predicted to be destined for greatness - an omen well suited to the king's boundless ego. The hatching was made a very public affair. When the shell cracked and a gold emerged from the mucous interior, a great silence grew. The adroit king spoke. He declared the hatchling a prophet and a warrior predestined for greatness, and he openly challenged any to deny his truth. No one dared.

In the highly tribal society of kobolds, ostracism must be one of an individual's most feared fates. Alone in the underdark, without the support of kin and the strength of numbers upon which every kobold so heavily relies, the banished has little chance of survival. And it's much worse than this, for kobolds are nasty little creatures discontent with a mere casting out of an aberrant fellow. In a widely attended and applauded pageant, they bath the condemned in offense oils, changing his coloration and scent to spotlight him to the prowling dangers of the exile caves.

And yet, despite near assurance of death, some banished do survive. The kobold tale "Spite of the Yellow Ones" keeps youngsters close to heel in its graphic depiction of a baby's abduction and fate at the hands of an entire leper-like colony of exiles. Of course, it's probably just a story. Whether such bands actually exist is pure speculation. But you can count on two things. There's no place for a "good seed" in kobold society, and life is persistant.

No one's going to appreciate him anyway until Santa kobold's darkvision goes and Rudy needs to light the way.
Then it'll be all "Rudy this" and "Rudy that". "We liked you all along."

The bastards.

Color-blind doppleganger?

A twist of Grimcleaver's idea: This kobold is covered in paint made from gold dust in preparation for his ritualistic demise, not unlike the Gilded Man of the Eldorado legend. But the kobolds don't just sacrifice any old kin, only the rare, special ones...

So, while his unique color draws PC attention, you needn't rewrite kobold ecology to provide an interesting mystery.

The quick thinking rascal might even try to pass himself off as a "good" kobold to garner PC favor and (perhaps) gain his rescue.

Are there more like him? Could be. Does something other than death await at the bottom of that sacrificial well?

I know this is purely academic, but I'm curious what people's reactions would have been if either:

a) Paizo still had the license, but decided to do an online-only magazine with exactly the same content.
or
b) WotC sold the license to another publisher who would be creating the two mags from now on.

I suspect that most folks would register either of these individual scenarios as somewhere in the "apprehensive" to "downright negative" spectrum. And in my mind, it is both of these things together that are happening.

Thoughts?

... I submitted the manuscript last June but I blew the word limit, not realizing how important that component is. Critical fumble! The unwieldy manuscript has hung in limbo ever since. ...

Uggh... Ashenvale, I feel for you and am having a drink in your name as we speak.

We're working on submission guidelines for both Pathfinder and the GameMastery modules. I'm also seriously considering an annual book of short adventure (say, 30 or so) designed exclusively by folks who have not been assigned a Pathfinder adventure or GameMastery Module.

That's excellent Erik. I think the annual book of short adventures is a great idea too. Thanks for writing.

Basically you need a love of the game, a respect for the game and a couple of cabbage votes of confidence. I would love to drag 75% of the Paizo boards to our secret hide-out, but it's not all that practical. Writing credits are optional, but the goal is to eventually see print, and have fun while doing so. So basically what the Connors said above. That's one of the the reasons we are offering a red pill. No rush on a decision. The offer is a standing one

GGG

Ooh. Ooh. <raises hand high> If we can get the required cabbage votes, we'll take two red pills please: one for me, one for she-who-must-be-obeyed.

If you have or are writing a GameMastery or a Pathfinder module you probably are a cabbage already. Likewise if you are prolific Class Acts or Campaign Workbook contributor you are also likely a cabbage.... If you are still looking for your pen and paper you are not alone.
So will it be the red pill or the blue pill?
;)
GGG

My hope is that James has a handful of red pills available for freelancers to stay in Paizo's Wonderland. My wife and I would love to contribute toward Pathfinder or write a GameMastery adventure, and I suspect many of you guys are hoping for the opportunity to do the same.

Have you ever been bitten by a cabbage at night during a full moon?

Time for me to fess up. I've heard of the were-cabbages via this board, but I'm not sure who they all are. A guy I knew in college used to lament that lyncanthropes were always half-human/half-something-horrifying, never something like a were-apple. GGG, shine some lunar light. Who are these infamous were-veggies and what diabolical deeds do they dare? Dig?

With the departure of Dungeon and Dragon, where will we find the next Connor's? Are there other possibilities for exposure via Paizo? Designing monsters is great and all but hardly compares to writing adventures. What about taking submissions for the Gamemastery line?

The Connors are totally blushing Festivus. But here's our question: where will we find the current Connors? :)

I hope you have many more great ideas where these came from. Thanks!

Thanks Riley! We have a whopping one adventure proposal in the submissions pile right now. We've got lots of ideas but, at least for us, it takes a great deal of time and thought to get them coherent enough to propose well. You can probably see from "Siege of the Spider Eaters" and "Escape from Meenlock Prison" that we like these involved plots for low-level characters. We tend to mentally work through all the kinks before putting anything on paper, and that makes for pretty slow going. So, while not prolific, we try to make up for it in well-placed thought behind a solid proposal. Still, it scares me everytime to have placed all our eggs in one basket, and that (and your encouragement) have got us working on another proposal as we speak.