Now available!
Is that a Yellow Chromatic Dragon on the cover? If so, will yellow chromatic dragons be stated in this issue?
Is the mod included in the magazine a new "Pathfinder Quest" scenario?
It is not.
It was a blast to contribute to this issue. Thanks for the opportunity Wolfgang, here's to many more.
I'm glad I got to articulate something that's been gnawing at me for the last 2 years following a discussion with Burning Wheel's Luke Crane: How can you add incentive/rewards to encourage players to inject deep set beliefs, restraints, fears and compulsions in their decision making... often at the cost of making suboptimal tactical choices.
While my piece (The Heroic Flaw) was written for 4e, Pathfinder fans can totally hack the reward system to make Trait Points grant SRD compatible bonuses.
I hope you enjoy the whole mag!
The savant was developed over six months and several redrafts. I think it turned out really well, but I`d love to hear what others think. In particular anyone who rolls one up.
The savant article was my favorite article of the issue, and that's saying something, since there were so many good ones! I especially like that you managed to leverage time-tested mechanics from other classes--rules that players are already familiar with--as the mechanics behind fresh flavor, like the savant's notebook of knacks. Masterful.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Further thought on KQ18: Would love to hear a report from the first person to spot it in the wild at the FLGS.
I don't get out to the stores much (lack of funds + credit card + lack of self control = good reason not to) but both Ravenstone and Guardtower have been carrying it. I had to get a copy of 16 from Ravenstone because Guardtower was sold out. (Sent copies to my parents.)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I do want to say, despite the 4e content*, This was a wonderful issue all around.
Now that I understand the Dragon Age system, the faith traits were excellent, and really help make the system more diverse.
The solo adventure was a great bit of nostalgia for someone who grew up with 'choose your own adventure' books. If I could be sure the 5 and 7 year old godkids wouldn't destroy my magazine, I could see letting them play the adventure (with parental help for the big words)
The cartoons as always were excellent. The d20 monkey made me laugh out loud.
10 reasons was nice for campaign building.
The Exorcists wins just for this line: "Instead of resurrecting four
legendary heroes, the brothers resurrect four guys from accounting."
I'm still digesting synergistic magic.
*
However, there is a Pathfinder adventure written by Tim Connors, which is truly truly excellent. It's called "The Exorcists".
Aww shucks!
This may be the craziest adventure I've ever written. With a possessed gold dragon, an evil artifact, cursed items, and Rip Van Winkle 1st level PCs, maybe I should have titled it: "OMG We're all going to die".
Hi
I have KQ18 and really enjoyed it. i particularly liked the PFRPG aspects with new options such as savant and beast masters.
If I may i would like to clarify a couple of things with Marc and Ryan on their work:
1) To Marc-----
When you choose an extra animal companion, is the animal companion level = the level value on the magical beast cohort level ie the second companion will always be 2 levels behind if you max your beast leadership score? this is how i would read this so as to reward those who put effort into putting up their beast score.
2) To Ryan-----
i) Notebook - it says the notebook lasts the entire career and says all the knacks etc take up very few pages. There are no rules on how many pages putting other knacks in the notebook it takes. I can understand this if it is not that relevant, but a point is made on that expanding it costs same as wizard spellbook. Also you mentioned there is no real limit on trades you create using the knacks - just your imagination. How much room do all these take up? Should their be limit based on pages in the notebook?
The reason i ask this as at the moment i do not see the point of the feat extra notes. I may have missed something fundemental but clarification would be great:)
ii) Does a savant automatically recognise something being done to put in his notebook? ie if he sees a sorceror casting fireball does he have to make any skill check, or as long as he writes it in within the hour for his one entry that day, gets that knack?
iii) I presume being able to enhance 3 abilities by +4 at level 1 is deliberate using the 3 knacks?
iv) in the feats with supernatural knack, what supernatural abilities could you gain as examples? Are these class ones or can you get monster ones? Presumably this would not include breath weapon of a dragon? If you emulated the supernatural effects of a bards magical performance, how may rounds would you get per trade and i suppose by extension, would a rage last the entire trade time with appropriate fatigue etc after?
Sorry for asking these clarifications but i really like the class. If i am ever going to get a GM to let me play it i want to prepare ahead any issues.
Cheers to both
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Hi
I have KQ18 and really enjoyed it. i particularly liked the PFRPG aspects with new options such as savant and beast masters.
If I may i would like to clarify a couple of things with Marc and Ryan on their work:
1) To Marc-----
When you choose an extra animal companion, is the animal companion level = the level value on the magical beast cohort level ie the second companion will always be 2 levels behind if you max your beast leadership score? this is how i would read this so as to reward those who put effort into putting up their beast score.
Really glad you like the Beast Masters article!
I've included the important text (and bolded the REALLY important parts :)
Additional Animal Companion:
If you already have an animal companion, you may opt to gain a second animal companion instead of a magical beast cohort. This additional animal companion follows all of the animal companion rules.
So, if you opt for a second animal companion, you get it instead of the beast cohort. You would not use your Beast Leadership score to determine level, you would determine it as you do for your first animal companion (they would be the same 'level', in other words)
You would still use your Beast Leadership score to figure out how many, and what HD, all of you normal animal followers would be however.
Does that help?
Hi
I have KQ18 and really enjoyed it. i particularly liked the PFRPG aspects with new options such as savant and beast masters.
If I may i would like to clarify a couple of things with Marc and Ryan on their work:
1) To Marc-----
When you choose an extra animal companion, is the animal companion level = the level value on the magical beast cohort level ie the second companion will always be 2 levels behind if you max your beast leadership score? this is how i would read this so as to reward those who put effort into putting up their beast score.
Really glad you like the Beast Masters article!
I've included the important text (and bolded the REALLY important parts :)
Additional Animal Companion:
If you already have an animal companion, you may opt to gain a second animal companion instead of a magical beast cohort. This additional animal companion follows all of the animal companion rules.So, if you opt for a second animal companion, you get it instead of the beast cohort. You would not use your Beast Leadership score to determine level, you would determine it as you do for your first animal companion (they would be the same 'level', in other words)
You would still use your Beast Leadership score to figure out how many, and what HD, all of you normal animal followers would be however.
Does that help?
Thanks Marc
That helps...seems quite powerful feat to get a whole new animal companion at same power as first. However, then again i know a number of people worry about the power of leadership in itself. If i played a druid there is no way i would not get the feat (barring GM approval).
In playtesting how did you find it? Did you try perhaps limiting the second companion to char level -2 at all?
I do like the flavour very much though, esp with the animal retinue you get:)
Cheers
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Sorry for asking these clarifications but i really like the class. If i am ever going to get a GM to let me play it i want to prepare ahead any issues.
Not at all. The savant is a robust class and there are bound to be areas that could be clarified.
i) Notebook - it says the notebook lasts the entire career and says all the knacks etc take up very few pages. There are no rules on how many pages putting other knacks in the notebook it takes. I can understand this if it is not that relevant, but a point is made on that expanding it costs same as wizard spellbook. Also you mentioned there is no real limit on trades you create using the knacks - just your imagination. How much room do all these take up? Should their be limit based on pages in the notebook?The reason i ask this as at the moment i do not see the point of the feat extra notes. I may have missed something fundemental but clarification would be great:)
I don’t want to sound like I’m passing the buck but parts of the notebook class feature were added during editing. Some, like the paragraph on dealing with a lost or destroyed notebook, were invaluable to the functionality and play of the class. The line about expanding the notebook was added after submission so unfortunately I’m not sure of its intention. I agree that it seems to contradict the later rule about one notebook being enough for a savant’s entire career. Unless I hear otherwise, I assume the rules for expanding the notebook are there in case it comes up, but in most cases one notebook is enough.
The extra notes feat is invaluable in a low fantasy campaign. If the PCs are the most exciting thing in the world, a savant might find himself starved for knack-worthy notes. Also, if you have a specific trade or avatar of legend in mind, instead of waiting to experience the knack you need, you can take the feet and add 6 notes of your choice.
ii) Does a savant automatically recognise something being done to put in his notebook? ie if he sees a sorceror casting fireball does he have to make any skill check, or as long as he writes it in within the hour for his one entry that day, gets that knack?
The latter. He may not know he saw a fireball, but he knows he saw the sorcerer wave his hands like so, heard him say suchandsuch, and boom, there was fire. He does have to have witnesses it, though. If an invisible creature slips past a savant unnoticed, the savant can’t note invisibility. I would rule this disqualifies silent and still spells as well, but that is a discretionary ruling on my part.
iii) I presume being able to enhance 3 abilities by +4 at level 1 is deliberate using the 3 knacks?
It can be done. Doesn’t sound like the most effective use of your knacks, but there’s nothing in the rules stopping you.
iv) in the feats with supernatural knack, what supernatural abilities could you gain as examples? Are these class ones or can you get monster ones? Presumably this would not include breath weapon of a dragon? If you emulated the supernatural effects of a bards magical performance, how may rounds would you get per trade and i suppose by extension, would a rage last the entire trade time with appropriate fatigue etc after?
This one I take full responsibility for. I should have included a rule to let you know that when embodying an extraordinary or supernatural knack, treat your savant level as the class level of the class from which you learned the knack. So a savant 5 could inspire courage for 12 + his Cha modifier rounds per day. This resets whenever he embodies a new trade.
I originally intended for savants to only learn the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of other classes, but in many ways I’m glad I was not so specific in the rules. The class becomes that much more exciting and versatile if it can embody monster abilities. However, that gets trickier. Breath weapon is a great example. Dragons can breathe the energy they are immune to. If a savant embodies a breath weapon, does he burn his own face off when he uses it? Could he learn to embody immunity to an energy? I think that’s too big a can of worms to open. I would rule that a savant can only embody extraordinary and supernatural class features. If you trust your player not to abuse the privilege, maybe loosen up that ruling a bit.
Thanks for the questions!
Hi Ryan
Thanks for the clarifications. They really help. As i mentioned i am a fan of this class....just really appeals to me. It seems as if it is the PFRPG successor to the Factotum or Chameleon from 3.5!
Now i get what the feat meant about extra notes! I had read it as extra notes to be added to a book (ie the extra sheets as you would buy for a spellbook). I think the terminology confused me. Extra knacks without having to wait to view them is actually very useful.
The answer about the supernatural aspects help but i would personally for my games probably limit it to character aspects, as with so many monsters out there you are bound to get some over powered trades esp. when you reach 8 knacks. Obviously learning (su) powers from monsters akin to character powers would still be ok. If a player wanted to really learn some specific monster (su) power I would make an extra feat up to help access and limit abuse. It would allow someone who really wanted to get dragon breath could.
Just one more question if i can.....how often can you use the healing abilities the class gets?
Thanks again
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Thanks Marc
That helps...seems quite powerful feat to get a whole new animal companion at same power as first. However, then again i know a number of people worry about the power of leadership in itself.
In playtesting how did you find it? Did you try perhaps limiting the second companion to char level -2 at all?
I do like the flavour very much though, esp with the animal retinue you get:)
Cheers
In playtesting, it actually worked vey well. In one playtest, we had a ranger with a wolf animal companion. After taking this feat, he opted for a second animal companion instead of a beast cohort and went with a hawk. Now he has his wolf to aid in combat and his hawk for scouting etc.
In another group, I had a druid character that also opted for the second animal companion. In this case, she had a leopard and went with a tiger for her second. The druid is very much a stay out of melee and cast type of character, so her two big cats are her protectors during combat.
As for balance, having the second companion at the same power level as the first seemed just right. I would say try the feat as written and see what happens. If, after a few sessions, you still feel the second should be reduced in power a little, you can certainly do it (but I really think you'll find that you don't need to :)
If i played a druid there is no way i would not get the feat (barring GM approval).
Interestingly enough, in one group, we had a druid that did NOT opt for a second animal companion. He went with a magical beast cohort as detailed in the feat - he picked a giant eagle!
Kobold Press
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Really happy that Mysteries article is getting good attention. It's really a well-thought-out recipe for GMs to generate their own mysteries with much better odds of success.
And the savant.... Let me just say that Ryan did a great job with it, and it is probably the single most crunch-heavy article KQ has ever done. It went through revisions, playtest, outside review by a PF developer, and even multiple names and some flavor reskinning. The end result is probably the most playable generalist class ever, and clearly for advanced players.
The questions in this thread prove that. I agree it would be worth generating a sample savant NPC. I'll try to remember it for after Gen Con.
I am still waiting for the copies to show up over here in the UK. As one of the play testers for 'Elementary, My Dear Wizard' I need to get my autographed copy.
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I agree it would be worth generating a sample savant NPC.
DONE! (with thanks to Justin Sluder for the avatars of legend)
KQ18 was fantastic! I literally forced my fiancée to read the Savant class (and then hid it from the player most likely to want to play it - he's already playing a Bard/Chronicler!)
i do not see the point of the feat extra notes. I may have missed something fundamental but clarification would be great:)
The extra notes feat is invaluable in a low fantasy campaign. If the PCs are the most exciting thing in the world, a savant might find himself starved for knack-worthy notes. Also, if you have a specific trade or avatar of legend in mind, instead of waiting to experience the knack you need, you can take the feet and add 6 notes of your choice.
I was thinking it'd be simple enough to allow skill points to be spent on Notes (1-to-1). Would also make for a good alternate favored class bonus.
Also... Enolctz Zird? *ROTFLMAO*
Saw this at my FLGS 4 hours ago, read the Savant class, and bought it immediately.
A few questions: Why is it 1 week per level to replace one of these? That seems to kill the class if something happens to the book, especially with how hard it is to make backups. Can you even make backups? Can you write knacks you know already in another book? Does this use up your once-per-day limit?
How should starting at higher levels be handled?
Is the advice to only allow class based supernatural abilities still in place? That seems like a huge restriction on their power, and I figured the reason you didn't burn your face off with a breath weapon was because it was Magic.
Why yes, I am probably going to make a savant soon. :D
Regarding starting at higher levels:
I recall that it takes about 20 CR equal encounters to level up. Assuming that's about 3-4 encounters a day, should that mean 5-6 knacks per level when starting at a higher level?
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Regarding starting at higher levels:
I recall that it takes about 20 CR equal encounters to level up. Assuming that's about 3-4 encounters a day, should that mean 5-6 knacks per level when starting at a higher level?
I think that's something that'll just have to be discussed with the GM because of feats like Faster Note Taking it would be possible for them to have twice as many per day, and that's not counting any non-combat situations. It doesn't say you have to see something in combat, you could go talk to a rogue about disarming traps and such.
The savant was developped over six months and several redrafts. I think it turned out really well, but I`d love to hear what others think. In particular anyone who rolls one up.
Thanks for what may soon be my favorite class ever... As a someone who has DM'd 2 to 5 times a week for 20 years, I never get much time to play and I really relish the idea of getting to throw around so many concepts with one character.
Also, thanks for leaving Supernatural Knack vague. It allows a ton of interesting possibilities.
But I guess my next question about the class is:
Can a savant take notes from his or her own Avatars of Legend? As fully stat'd characters they are going to have feats and powers the Savant likely won't have seen yet? This in turn makes the Savant more able to channel them when he is using Trades and Knacks... and seems deliberate design but nowhere is it called out either way.
Apexut, I don't recall seeing any limits on where they could take things from.
Something I'm also curious about is the action to concentrate on the avatar of legend. It doesn't explicitly specify, so I assume it uses the standard rules for concentration, which is a standard action. Is that right? I could see how it might be a full round action, as that's what's necessary to summon it.
Hey Ryan, any news?
Hey Ryan, any news?
I think it is pretty clear from "Free Avatar" changing the action to maintain to a move action that if would be a standard up til then. But I suppose in the right game (say one with psi-crystals) and with the right feats, that maintenance could be passed to a familiar or companion allowing the savant more involvement.
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Thanks for all the love you guys have shown the savant, it’s time I show some love back.
Why is it 1 week per level to replace one of these? That seems to kill the class if something happens to the book, especially with how hard it is to make backups. Can you even make backups? Can you write knacks you know already in another book? Does this use up your once-per-day limit?
Any mention of replacing a destroyed notebook was added by editorial, so I can’t provide any insight into the RAI. I agree asking a player to sit out of a week of game time and accept that his notes are lost is harsh. If you’re looking for a house rule, I would recommend it taking as long to replace as a familiar. I like the idea of creating a backup, but each note would use up your one knack for that day, or possibly change it to one new knack per day, or two backup knacks per day.
How should starting at higher levels be handled?
I liken it to starting a wizard above level 1. To my knowledge there are no official rules on how to determine a spellbooks’ contents for a wizard starting above level 1, but most GMs have their method. I would adapt that method to the savant as well. If you do not have an existing method or if your existing method does not apply, I recommend a number of additional knacks equal to your savant level x your key ability score modifier. Any skill or weapon knack can be chosen, but only spell and ability knacks he could use if he had a number of levels in the related class equal to his savant level. So a 3rd level savant could not start with a fireball knack in his notebook.
Is the advice to only allow class based supernatural abilities still in place?
That is my RAI advice, but if you want to make a case, there is no such restriction RAW. I think a savant could use many monster supernatural abilities without breaking the game, especially if it fits a theme or is just plain cool, but opening it up to any monster ability gets dicey.
Can a savant take notes from his or her own Avatars of Legend? As fully stat'd characters they are going to have feats and powers the Savant likely won't have seen yet? This in turn makes the Savant more able to channel them when he is using Trades and Knacks... and seems deliberate design but nowhere is it called out either way.
Absolutely. Do you watch House? Every episode he realizes the solution to one problem while telling an unrelated story. The same thing here. In talking about one Avatar of Legend, the savant inspires himself to later greatness.
That metaphor doesn’t work as well as I thought it would...
Something I'm also curious about is the action to concentrate on the avatar of legend. It doesn't explicitly specify, so I assume it uses the standard rules for concentration, which is a standard action. Is that right? I could see how it might be a full round action, as that's what's necessary to summon it.
Huge gaff on my part leaving that out, sorry guys. Concentrating on the avatar of legend is supposed to be a standard action until 18th level when it becomes a move action.
Thanks Ryan! Much appreciated.
I've never really thought about the higher level wizard / spellbook issue before. I assumed everyone just bought scrolls of the stuff they wanted, but I suppose they could also work out to see what books they copied from other wizards.
Is the advice to only allow class based supernatural abilities still in place?That is my RAI advice, but if you want to make a case, there is no such restriction RAW. I think a savant could use many monster supernatural abilities without breaking the game, especially if it fits a theme or is just plain cool, but opening it up to any monster ability gets...
So far we have had no issues with this in games were Savant is being played OR Taskshaper (similar grab a monster power power). DMs just have to keep an eye on what monsters they run and it really is just like gearing your NPCs. Consider that after defeating a bad guy and his resources that the party gains them. Not to mention most of these abilities scale off of HD for monsters. So DCs and damage dice are going to be substantially less for a Savant (or similar character) as that they don't have the HD backing the powers.
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Are there any solid plans for the Savant to get a New Paths treatment?
Is there a way to get Sp abilities that aren't 1 to 1 copies of spells? For example, summoner's SM SLA and its standard action activation.