Synapse17's page

I will disagree with the mighty T-Rex and say I would have the mindscape border not register as magic.
There are two reasons for this.

First is the same reason that a ghost would not register as magic in my campaigns.
In real life, I would of course consider any fantasy element to be magic, a suspension of nature. But inside a fantasy setting where elves and restless dead are a known part of the world, part of nature (even if it isn't Primal or animal nature), magic then becomes not a measure of something being unnatural so much as being the places, people and things that have been *altered* by spells, rituals, enchantment and powers beyond what's "normal".
So one zombie that rose spontaneously due to some unresolved business, it would not detect as magic in my games, but the other one that was raised by a necromancer, it would definately detect as magical, specifically, the corpse is not magical but the spell that animates it does.
I would let it detect some creatures and things that are not explicitly affected by a spell, like a familiar, because it can be assumed to be a suspension of the natural way of things through magic, even if it isn't an ongoing spell effect or a magical item in rules-terms.
So what is the mindscape border then? Well, it's not the effect of a spell, or even a deliberately created thing. It is literally the end of the world, if the mindscape was an island then the border would be the beaches and cliffs where land ends. It is a "natural" feature of a mindscape formed from the collective consensus of the beings inside it, same as all the buildings that exist in the mindscape but have fallen apart in the real world. It's the reason the mindscape itself does not detect as magic.

The second reason is that letting the border register as magic invites more prodding and attempts to dispel it as a spell effect. But this is a dead end and is not the insurmountable obstacle that we want the players to be focusing their attention on. With it being the "natural" end of the world, I would rather have this register as nothing at all. That could raise more questions, but also makes it seem more like a force of nature that will not budge. The message is that whatever it is, it is "supposed" to be there.

The wall of ghosts however is both the result of a suspension of the "natural" way things are (as far as things are natural in the mindscape), and we want the players to prod and to try and affect it before trying to do something with the border.

So I didn't continue my campaign after book 3, the transmigration and conquering death itself felt like such a natural and powerful place to end the story at.
But when I was still entertaining running book 4 I came across that bit with letting PCs change their ancestries, and my take can be more or less summed up as "Why?". As in, I don't see it serving any real purpose that is worth all the questions it raises.

I think you have a good idea going on here! With letting transmigrated individuals reincarnate as what they desire to be. For most people this would be "I want to still be me", fear of change etc. But for those who harbor a desire to be something other than what they are, this let's them reincarnate as something else.
You could offer this to the players, but if it was me, and if I had no reason to think that any of my players would want to change anything anyway, then I would keep that part secret and use it for some scenes where some familiar NPCs are suddenly another ancestry, and they are happy about it to boot. Leaving it unexplained could help make the mystical reincarnation ritual even more mystical.

Sure! Or if it is really really early, the captives can be people who are still missing from the initial attack. That way you would have to change very little of the encounters in the camp.

Since you say you are also playing this AP, I will take it that you are aware of the big twist in book 3? If you are not, then stop reading this AP at once, books 1 and 2 will spoil it to the GM even if it isn't revealed to the players yet. You'll spoil it for yourself! (And the twist is very much worth it!)

Jorogumo will feature in an unexpected way later, and Ugly Cute being a spider will matter in a small way that relates to Jorogumo.

If you make Ugly Cute and Jorogumo both into toads or both into mantii, then that part is preserved, its cool.

It's not a problem.
My group too dealt with the lumber camp early, it went well. They then finished the research and took care of the monastery before summer was over.
They may be slightly under leveled and under equipped, but it's not so bad that skilled players can't handle it.
My players pulled it off and in the end they got a little extra time with which to prepare for winter.
No matter how early they finish the monastery in book 2, they'll still be stumped and busy preparing until start of book 3.

My consideration then, instead of how to stop them, would be how to hint to the players that they need not rush it so bad. But I'll always let them.

My first thought is that this could seriously risk spoiling the twist unless you put hard safety rails in place, once the Pcs begin to suspect, they will ask.
So do you have good reasons to rock the boat?

There is no problem with using the Ancestor mystery itself.

One way you could use past lives as ancestors is if you let the past lives be just a few ancestors among the many, and be vague enough that they seem like family just like the rest, never confirmed to be past lives until that bomb has dropped. That means you dont let them say anything of import that you wouldn't have any other ancestor say. Let their identity be part of the big reveal.
You could help obfuscate this by having the PC's family be a long family line of tradesmen, so that one would expect many of them to be similar.

Another idea is that there are strangely many ancestors who are nearly identical to the PC, and they know nothing more than what the PC knows (they have been reset as well!), they can comment only on what they did differently after the event has already passed.

Personally though, I wouldnt risk it. The twist is already good, and hinges on the right amount of secrecy.

I remember reading it, stopping, read it again, was confused, then resolved to have it be a non-issue in my game by having replacement PCs just be fellow townsfolk that hadnt been mentioned before.

I did tell my PCs that replacement PCs would have to come from the town, and asked if they had any "NPC" ideas that I could establish early on. (Didn't get around to it, but nor was it needed)

Before the PCs can access methods to bring people back, a hereto unknown but capable person stepping up is still plausible (One of my players took up playing Hai-Er Ha), just make up some excuse for who or what they were protecting or doing off-camera during book 1.

After means of resurrecting dead PCs come online, it would indeed be weird for a local mover-and-shaker of a mid-level PC to come out of nowhere, but you also no longer need to.

Not sure.
Are you asking if a PC from SoG can replace an existing ghost character in the RoW party when you resume that campaign?
Sure, I guess? If you can square it to your own satisfaction then why not?
I have no idea on how to make such a leap though.

Are you asking if a PC can be a ghost in SoG after a certain point? That would be tricky to explain, especially if it is just one single person that is affected this way. But I don't think it would be a problem mechanically.

Perhaps some souls are different and cannot reincarnate like the rest, perhaps it is a matter of faith? So X% of citizens linger as ghosts with their living families while the rest reincarnate. You could probably do cool stuff with that if you want to put in the work.
I'm thinking this would probably have serious implications for Shinzo, helping trapped souls reincarnate is one thing, unleashing ghosts en-masse is another.

If it has to be just one person though... perhaps they were already a ghost before the adventure began? And that's why they respond differently to the ritual.

I guess I was lucky. I drew attention to one of the statues early on by describing its decrepit state, and one of the players suggested they should clean it. They tabled the idea but came back a little later to follow through, from there I just had Zhi-Hui spell it out that it is what they should be doing.

Idea.
If they insist on rewards beyond what the adventure offers, and they do so also in-character, have the grateful NPC hesitate and then pay them, then also deduct a preparation point and some reputation by the end of the session because the town is losing more wealth than it can afford. Later add a short scene showing the grateful NPC more destitute than before, still thankful but definitely worse off.

Are you using the earn income table? If they are using the right skills then they should already be able to make 1GP per day, with months of downtime that adds up quickly.

Not sure what they are expecting if they don't want to sell stuff.

You can also reassure them that they will have a more traditional dungeon experience soon (the monastery), that should give them some more loot.

If you think it's best for your game then you should do it. The campaign will withstand such change.

For my campaign, the players started researching the ritual halfway through summer and were ready to go to the monastery by the last week of summer.
I allowed them to do this.

It worked out well.
Maybe I am just imagining, but the PCs missing a level of XP made things noticeably more difficult on the path up the mountain.
It was no dealbreaker, but it is something to lookout for.
Similarly, some early fall downtime events have rewards that are meant to help with the path and monastery, which I felt very noticeable when the PCs did them after returning from the mountain.

For research, reduce the targets by 25% to compensate for reduced number of actions.
But you don't have to, there is plenty of margin already built in so that the players will succeed on research.

For my group of 4 PCs it is mostly just 1 or 2 PCs that do research at all, and its hasn't been a problem.
As long as someone is doing it it should work out.

With preparation points you can give them a bonus equal to 1/3 of what they have once winter starts.

Thought I might tell you how it is going down.
I opted to leave it to the players, I placed De-Ge is in Heh's mindscape, hiding in the locker room of the bathhouse, same place he was hiding in when he was introduced back in book 1. He is screaming mad from being eaten alive every night for the last few weeks. The PCs may find him if they go looking or they may not.
I plan to use him in a tragic sense, such that it is very hard to succeed, they are likely to lose him a second time and this time it is permanent. The PCs can only save him if they go the extra mile. If they find him, they need to have crit the ritual to have a doorway to send him back through. Or he needs to be safe and sound if and when the PCs win the big fight later.
No hints.

I told my PCs they need a building to enact their ritual in. So they considered the Teahouse, because it was theirs. They considered borrowing some random house, in case there is risk to the building involved. Perhaps one of the abandoned lumber lord manors. Then one of them thought of the bathhouse, because it is now abandoned and "perhaps De-Ge is in that mindscape too"
That was their words, I did not prompt anything.
Then they enacted the ritual in the locker rooms...
Well! The stars seem to be aligning. So the first thing that happens post ritual is that they find a terrified De-Ge screaming at them from the corner, they calm him down and they promise to get him back safely.

Rest of the visit goes to plan. The players seem very creeped out by all the evil stuff happening, they are hesitant to speak with anyone or to even go across the town square, preferring long detours to avoid people.
They get the truth bomb and are vehemently against that notion, their hesitance was not what I expected but I can work with this!
The citizens of Willowshore start to break in like a zombie horde and we ended last session mid-fight.

The plan now is to have some citizens get involved in the fight, piling in from all directions, but those citizens are single mindedly going after De-Ge, trying to grab and pull him away to eat. The horde includes family members of the PCs of course! Every turn, if no PC spends any actions to keep De-Ge close and safe, he will be lost to the horde and gone forever when the fight ends.

This is the fate that awaits you if you get banished. I want this image in my players heads for when the exorcists come calling.

Dont have my book nearby, but I suppose you could use a normal Jorogumo stat block. However if a fight breaks out it will be a very tough one.
I think the point of the event is that the PCs aren't supposed to win with violence, its like the Nosoi event where you are forced to placate someone who is extremely rude, the PCs have to play her game.
So I wouldn't worry about her actual stats unless the PCs force initiative, just treat her as having +100 Everything combat-related until then.
If the PCs seem to be pushing for a fight, let her fire a warning shot *Outside of initiative*, and make it one that demonstrates how overpowered she is if the PCs were to fight her, then ask the if they are sure they wish to fight this battle.

Thanks for the insightful responses everybody!
Lots of food for thought.

I'm still considering it, but might also skip it.
I guess its because the PCs had successfully stopped every preventable death of NPCs up to this point, and here I made them witness one that was non-preventable, it makes me feel like I need to fix it.
Possibly my players expect an opportunity to rescue him too, especially since I used the vanishing as a session cliffhanger.

But you are right. If there are more non-preventable deaths coming, then De-Ge may as well be the first to normalize the idea.
Not to mention the scores of non-preventable deaths that already happened off-screen in chapter 1 of book 1. Those spirits are waiting for a next cycle and will be doomed if they are not restored with the rest of Willowshore. If they are restored then there is suddenly a lot of things running around that rob death of meaning. Although... the dead also include two PCs, I think my players would be overjoyed to see their fallen PCs get a happy ending.
Finally, if this all wasn't a time-loop and the PCs weren't kinda-sorta ghosts, like if this was about the casualties from when Sandpoint was attacked, then I wouldn't have given it a second thought, dead is dead.

Also, I still need to figure out a way for the PCs to get De-Ge out of there since De-Ge is not projecting like the PCs.

Perhaps I should just go get book 4, I was gonna do it anyway.

Thanks again!

Hey! Am running this AP for my regulars and I am having a blast! We just started book 3 and finished event 3 yesterday.
I have not yet read book 4.

For the last event of book 2, I had De-Ge be the one to get banished, and I had it happen before the PCs eyes as the were unarmed and wearing only towels.
Now, the text says he goes to the boneyard, which to me sounds like he is gone forever, but I'm not one to deny my players the chance to earn a perfect victory.
So I made an sfx edit where De-Ge is ripped out of this world by a broken arm, and I was considering having him show up screaming mad in Heh's mindscape, so as to give the PCs a way to save him.

So, my question is: Would this disrupt anything in book 4? Are there already plans made for the character that got banished?
Bonus question: If not, is there an even a better place to bring them back?

If I was asked on the spot, I would probably just decline and move on.

"Sorry, Duskwalkers are a poor fit for this AP. Please do something else."

However, as I think about it, there's some potential here!
How about a vague sense of familiarity with -and special treatment from- Shinzo? (Whether good or bad)
Someone may correct me on this, but I don't see a lore obstacle to a (pre Lost Omens) Duskwalker living in Willowshore before the spooky stuff started happening.

So if you as the GM are interested in making this it into a thing, and the player is keen on playing such a character, then go for it!
But if you feel that you have enough on your plate already then definitely decline.

Started GMing this last week, and ran some tutorial content that took place during the reenactment festival to help set the scene and give the PCs some local ties before they are expected to fight for them.
Here's what we know of the party in my game so far.

Xi (Female Ratfolk Toxicologist Alchemist)
Immigrated as a child and was adopted by a local farmer, she loves cooking and is known to make pesticides. She secretly makes moonshine.
A friend of Zataku who provided the fish that she used to win the Willowshore cooking contest.

Zhao (Male Human Thaumaturge)
A sage and a collector of knick-knacks, has his origins outside of town and was sent here to research local legends. Has been a "victim" of the reenactment multiple times before. Has a reputation in town as a bit of a knowitall, and it seems Luo was looking to knock him down a peg during a quiz.

Hikari (Female Human Redeemer Champion)
Is part of a line of "Guardians", what early Willowshore relied on for defense before it got a proper town guard. A defunct role that matters only to themselves and to the Matsuki household.
Ate the most pies during the festival -by far-, and handily won the tug-of-war by being the only contestant to take it seriously.
Worships Daikitsu.

Dal Geumsog (Male Kitsune Rogue)
A hunter, lives on the north edge of town and has a friendly competition with Sumika.

Who: Shivikah
What: Hunter Lv3
Book: The Wormwood Mutiny
Where: Riptide Cove on Murder Bonewrack Island
How: Died to the devilfish in Riptide Cove during the first two initiative steps of that combat.
Provoked an Attack of Opportunity when moving up, was hit and grappled, was subsequently bitten savagely and put far into negatives.

Who: Ghazrak
What: Magus Lv8
Book: Homebrew
Where: Reguare, under Eel's skull
How: Took a full attack from a Gholdako, including a crit that sent him to -25 hp.
He got better, with help from a voidstick (Essentially a Raise Dead potion).

Who: Baraqim
What: Slayer Lv8 / Inquisitor Lv1
Book: Tempest Rising
Where: Tail end of the regatta
How: Took a full attack from a Greater Lightning Elemental when in the top of the mainmast. He fell into the sea and bled out.
He got better with a Raise Dead cast two days later.

Who: Shakatuh
What: Hunter Lv9
Book: Tempest Rising
Where: Tail end of the regatta
How: Boped on the head by Greater Lightning Elemental.
He got better, with a GM fiat resurrection before being retired.

Who: Ghazrak
What: Magus Lv10
Book: Island of Empty Eyes
Where: Sumitha, on the Island of Empty Eyes
How: Took a critical hit from The Great Mother for 78 damage when he had 30-something, sent him to negative 30-something.
He got better, with Breath of Life.

Who: Anabeshgripai "Gnome Ann"
What: Rogue/Gunslinger Lv11
Book: Island of Empty Eyes
Where: Sunken Shrine, near the Island of Empty Eyes
How: Got stung and shocked repeatedly by a Sapphire Jellyfish, was sent to negative 30-something while CON-poisoned.
She got better, by a free True Resurrection provided by The House of Stolen Kisses, in exchange for being put under a geas to kill 10 people who "probably deserved it".

Who: Ragavan
What: Swashbuckler Lv11
Book: Island of Empty Eyes
Where: Sunken Shrine, near the Island of Empty Eyes
How: Stung and shocked by a Sapphire Jellyfish, retreated but died from CON-poison.
He got better, with a scroll of raise dead cast an hour or so later.

Who: Ghazrak
What: Magus/Wizard Lv12
Book: Raid on The Emperors Hand
Where: On The Emperors Hand Abrogail's Fortune, near Devil's Arches
How: Took all hits on a full attack from the first mate "Lance", was sent from near max HP to minus 40-something.
He got better, with a scroll of raise dead cast by Gnome Ann after the looting was done.

Who: Anabeshgripai "Gnome Ann"
What: Rogue/Gunslinger Lv11
Book: From Hell's Heart
Where: On The Filthy Lucre, in Jeopardy Bay
How: flew up to the crow's nest to attack Omara Culverin, but was crit at point blank range despite being invisible, fell 60 ft onto the deck of the ship.
She got better, the battle was a scripted loss so I (the GM) handwaved any deaths. It's not gonna stop me from putting it on here though.

Who: Ragavan
What: Swashbuckler Lv14
Book: From Hell's Heart
Where: On The Filthy Lucre, in Jeopardy Bay
How: Took a full attack from Bonefist in melee when he was at under half health, he was sent to minus a-lot.
He got better, the battle was a scripted loss so I (the GM) handwaved any deaths. It's not gonna stop me from putting it on here though.

Who: Ragavan
What: Swashbuckler Lv14
Book: From Hell's Heart
Where: On The Filthy Lucre, in Jeopardy Bay, the second round!
How: Took a full attack from Bonefist's guns, with one crit in the mix he was sent to minus 20-something.
He got better, with a scroll of raise dead cast by Ghazrak after The Lucre was blown to smithereens.