SunderedShadow's page

I'm not saying that the net is a bad weapon... I'm just saying that nobody likes nets, and for good reason.

+1 Ghost Touch net can wreck the day of anything incorporeal though.

Back at the guide again, slowly adding the 7th level familiars in, added in the archetypes, familiars & feats from Ultimate Wilderness.

For Scouts I decided they needed a minimum combined total of +20 for Stealth & Perception, as well as a minimum speed of 30'

For Protectors I am trying to shoot for them having a base Dex of 16+ so they can use their abilities at least x3 per round.

I am keeping the saving throw weighting to favor Fort & Will equally, but both more than Reflex saves. I find that failing Fort or Will saves have much worse consequences compared to failing a reflex save.

Sorry on the sudden delay going on, dealing with a bedbug infestation and attempting to acquire the new wilderness book that came out for additional familiar information. Am still working, just slower than I want.

If your wizard uses familiars often, Try using some Mundanity Grease on it. Its a splash weapon with a range increment of 10', lasts for 1d4 minutes or until washed off.
In effect it negates his familiar & all the abilities his familiar has returning it to just a normal animal of its type (thus no access to the masters skill ranks, it grants no bonus to the master such as the +4 initiative of the Rabbit, cant share or deliver spells, etc.)
won't gut him, but might make him blink a bit and for some low end mook to use it while the big boys are fighting it might have a few amusing effects.

Got the base list started for the Improved Familiars of 7th level or higher (more of them than I thought once I started digging). I've got notes on some but am going to be slowed down doing a bit of research on others. Still progress is good.

One thing I do, is I read the guides for the classes my players are playing, it gives me a heads up for what to expect, and if the guide is written well it also will go into the limits of the ability so I can learn what they can and cannot do. This has helped with catching players that don't fully understand the mechanics of what they are playing.

I just accidentally created a mini-review of Wizard Arcane School Powers, if you're interested for when you get back to work on your Wizard guide.

I understand on accidentally created for a guide.. this thing started as a few page blurb from the wizards guide and kind of exploded. I Will look over that mini-review most likely as I haven't reviewed all the schools yet in my guide.

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Status on Familiar Guide
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Its still being worked on, I put off progressing into new territory until I finished cleaning up what was already there. Am now polishing up the Ground based familiars adding what I think of them, then will move on to adding the higher tier familiars.

I also thank you all for your encouragement and support so far and hope that it continues.

Tink would be honoured to be included in the guide.

Blue would be quite happy too.

SunderedShadow wrote:

4) Deciding where to put a few sample familiar stories in, might use them as fillers where there is blank space, might try some art there to liven the guide up and put all the stories in one area. Thoughts??

I quite like the idea of sort of having both.

A small picture with the story around it if that makes sense.
A single or two paragraph story and a small picture of the scene, or something close.

Also, how would you like us to provide the stories?
Are you looking for a story about why the wizard has a familiar?
Something to consider might be to have stories of the interaction of the wizard and familiar in play.

1) Artwork is great, but don't steal content without providing source (I will always provide source of any artwork used)

Finally got finish reading the Familiar guide itself.

Just noticed something in the rules: The Improved Familiar text (on both www.d20pfsrd.com and Archives of Nethys) says "Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular...

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As a practical matter, for links to online sources, you might want to use Archives of Nethys (for instance their Familiar Archetypes page) instead of www.d20pfsrd.com, which seems to keep breaking links, including its own. At least do this until the www.d20pfsrd.com people get their site straightened out. (However, some things found there may not be on Archives of Nethys at all, or may be missing some information there(*), although I have also found that the reverse happens sometimes.)

(*)This includes at least some of the creatures that can be Familiars, so those that I linked below I left pointing to www.d20pfsrd.com instead of redirecting them.

Will consider the adjustment, I've used d20pfsrd for so long compared to archives it will just need me doing a bit of a mental switch as to where to go.

I noticed from starting to read your Familiar guide that you have a new Wizard guide in progress. Have you introduced this anywhere yet (Paizo Messageboards or otherwise)?

Actually that wizard's guide has been my project for 2 years or so, its actually what spawned off half the other guides I've been working on.

The Familiar's Guide was originally about 3-5 pages cut and pasted out of my Wizards one, its kind of taken a life of its own. I also have several others all that have been cut out of the Wizards guide into their own thing I am working on. This is the only one I shared to start with because its the one I want as my primary focus. Once this guide is done I will start to share some of the others as well.

Took a day off to just do my own thing. (HFY on Reddit can be addicting)

1) A question to everyone who has suggested the "types" of familiars. What hard numbers do you want to suggest as the minimums to aim for?

2) I have put a few samples of what I was thinking today down in Fliers & Aquatics. I just can't see the "Gliders" being anything more than a steaming pile so won't bother that group.

3) Did a few wording updates, added in a few things Id been informed of (or found) that I missed.

4) Deciding where to put a few sample familiar stories in, might use them as fillers where there is blank space, might try some art there to liven the guide up and put all the stories in one area. Thoughts??

5) I thank you all for helping me make this a better guide than it started at. I laugh at myself for thinking this would stop at 10 pages, now I am honestly thinking it will likely hit about 30 or more before I'm done.

@Mathmuse, John Mechalas, Tink_, Avr & anyone else willin to take part.
If any of you are willing to give some backstories behind why your wizards have the familiar they do (including the wizards & familiars names) id like to add them to the guide.. I think that little bit of detail flavor is missing from a lot of familiars I've seen get played.
@Mathmuse I think I could work with val Bains story quite easily if you would allow it to be added.
@John Mechalas Like with Mathmuse I think I could work with your story although in your case I need a bit more detail.

@Alex Smith 908: Any edits you make should only be showing up at suggestions with me making the final call on that, if otherwise please let me know.

@UnarcaneElection
1) even in 2nd edition the penalty was insane which made me hate them as well. Until I started 3.5 (I skipped 3.0) I had no love of them, it took a while for me to change my tune but now I love em.

2) re: killing dummies.. I've known Barbarians that do that to ;)

3) Bonded object: Tis why most of my wizards have a bevy of scrolls, although in PFS play that might be more useful don't think your allowed to craft scrolls for that.

@John mechalas (yes again).
Combat: Easy group (high damage, good AC & possible combat maneuvers*) should work. Although I've had a hard time seeing any of the familiars reliably pull off the combat maneuvers except with the eldritch guardian and someone with a high BaB.

Control: easy group to add in thats mostly going to be our decent strength fliers.

Touch Spell I think would be the ones with high movement & AC.

Magic: thats going to be only really found with improved familiars I think although I should figure the monkey if given a way to actually speak could fill this role also.

Transport: Falls into mauler archetype or a few small familiars more than anything else if im reading that right.

Bonuses: situational, I personally highly value initiative bonuses some people think thats a waste (I figure theres to few ways to get that up so any edge there is good)

IF I limit any familiar to 1-3 categories, and some filling in none of them of course this might work without getting to horrible Just keep it down to 1 line if possible per familiar, and RED familiars will usally be good at nothing so yeah I can avoid any extra size there.
--I am starting to like where this option is going.

SunderedShadow wrote:

I added in a section called Familiars: Ratings Explained that will go over my thought processes on rating the familiars, hopefully this will clear up some confusion on the ratings they recieved.

It's not that I want to quibble on every item I disagree with, it's that my perspective is different because what I use a familiar for and what this guide assumes in its ratings are not the same. If I were to be so bold as to suggest an alternative approach, it would be to do what some of the monster summoning guides do: take the fundamental roles for a familiar (damage, combat support, scouting, SLA/UMD, transport, etc.), and evaluate their suitability for each.

Bold is good, I will take a step away for a bit think on how I can approach it best, likely look at a monster summoning guide or two (any you would recommend?) and then see what I can do about adding that in.

Current thought is a line beneath the entry with the colors there vs at the front where the name is.

@Secane thanks for the heads up from the FAQ, adjusting now.
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@Mathmuse yeah its the quadruped multiplier for carrying capacity hence soem familiars can have a surprisingly large carry load.. best for small ones like the goat though since its the least work for the biggest gains. (makes it sound like a bodybuilder doesnt that)

--Id rather have a massive and very well worded and thought out doccument vs a bunch of half ass ones. Bad call on reviewing your performance before reviewing your work hopefully he fixed that rating. I also hope this guide meets with your approval.
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@JohnMechalas I added in a section called Familiars: Ratings Explained that will go over my thought processes on rating the familiars, hopefully this will clear up some confusion on the ratings they recieved. For those that are exceptionally good in a specific role I will be adding that as a note on each one, the overall rating is general use and survivability. If you disagree with any rating I've given let me know I will review the familiar again, when working with this many familiars even I can miss things.

The reason the Toad sees such hate is the slow for movement, it can't hurt anything except a regular sized fly, and the bonus HP it gives really is useless beyond the first level or two. The AC is at my minimum passable for considering good, and its stealth is nice, but that high stealth won't matter if it can't get somewhere to utalize it.
The Raven: pro: fly speed & speak 1 language the master knows which makes him a decent scout/spy but for other things not so much. The Thrush compares fairly equally higher stealth less perceptive, better master bonus for a "face", less use in bombing due to strength. Both are marked as good spies/scouts, but really once you get the ability to speak to your familiar there are other much better options.
The Rhamphorhyncus gives a better masters bonus, can carry more for bombing runs, has a better maneuverability and higher AC although its less perceptive.
The Hawk or Owl both fly faster with a higher AC, better damage if needed, more perceptive and stealthy and give a better bonus for the master (perception boost beats appraise).
The bat has Blindsight which is great for detecting invisible things, flies better (maneuverability), and has a higher AC although just like the Raven the masters bonus kind of stinks.
I do have it marked in the notes about the raven being great as an early game scout/spy but in comparison with some of the other familiars out there his only edge is the speaking to the master early.

And unless your allergic to it, yes, you should eat chocolate.

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@Bwang: Other options for Arcane Bond (the item) are going to be covered in the Wizard Guide (also in progress, link is at the top of the familiar guide if you want to see where im at in that so far). Primary focus is finishing the familiar guide then going back to the wizards one.
I don't think I will be covering the Eberron Changeling familiar since thats from the Eberron setting not anything Paizo. As for the guides status I've been averaging 8-10 hours a day on the guide for about 2 weeks so far. This trend will slow down a bit during the holidays but I have hit my personal obsession button right now and thus will not be changing to another guide until after this one is done.

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@Baba Ganoush thank you for letting me know about the prestige class I missed.. although I will say unless your class has a high will save, you still might want to grab Iron Will. Both the trait & class are now in the guide.

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@Kurald Galain: I actually always consider the AC simply because I've run across way to many DMs who like to go out of their way at times to kill the familiar. melee combat is actually the lowest factor of their value.

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@deuxhero: Once you find it let me know please.

@Set I won't be covering Cold Iron since its 3pp material.

@Kurald Galain: I will be making notations on those archetypes and the split between front line and caster thank you for bringing that to my attention.
I tended to knock most of the school familiar archetypes down a notch due to the feat requirements compared to other familiars.
-- The Emissary got a solid review here and I have definatly increased the rating list for it.
-- The Figment & Sage Archetype is now listed as a Blue for some classes.
-- The Mauler has been re-written its still green and more details have been given, notations on turning it into a mount have been added (can't believe I forgot that as someone did that with a Mauler bat on a table I was watching a few years ago)

@RogueRogue will see what I can do, will be lower on the priority totem pole compared to getting the key stuff up, but there will be a marker for it added.

@Mathmuse I try avoiding the wand-wielding monkey if its going to use a wand its going to need to speak and monkeys don't normally do that. As for a few things to look in on try Muleback Cords and Ant Haul. The cords cost 1k and increase its strength by 8 for determining carrying load, ant haul triples how much it can carry and those effects stack very nicely.
The mauler archetype works well for the packhorse role just for the strength increases but its a side effect not a primary objective of that archetype.

if your using a Dragon base, make sure your getting the weight treated as if it was a Quadruped not a Biped that might help.

Oh and just a general FYI: got through the majority of the the 5th level familiars as well as some of the re-writing done on other parts to expand on them. Will do more Thursday most likely (going to take a day or two off the guide so I don't burn out on it).
Thing is now up to 23 pages.. I am surprised.

Improved Familiar isn't limited to the main 4 elementals. This is explicit as of Horror Adventures (Greater Elemental Whispers). Aether in particular is amazing as a familiar.

Will be adding all of those in soon, all the Improved Familiars are from the original version of everything which used to be part of my wizards guide. I decided to go and expand on familiars and well, this beast of a guide was born.

My estimation of a oh 10 page tops guide... so wrong, so very very wrong.

Will be adding their stats and reviews next update.

Kurald Galain wrote:

Note also that the emissary's guidance ability means you effectively get +1 on almost all your skill checks ever, and on the first attack you make each round. That's pretty good.

I think this particularly makes it worth it for the Greater Elemental Whispers familiar, since the Kineticist only makes one attack per round and "to-hit" bonuses are hard to come by for that class.

That notation has been added to the Emissary.

Also as a general FYI: I put up more on the Bloodline Familiars.

Ok group reply here.

@Avr: If I had another technique that would work and not use up a lot of space I would use it. I think it is about 8% of men who are at least partially colorblind (hell I have issues with some of the colors). I tried using stars before but that just cluttered things heavily.

@KuraldGalain: Beastblade added. The bladebound acts like a familiar in some ways but is more an intelligent item so outside the scope of this guide.

@NeoTiamat You also have to make sure your figment can speak for the activation of wands which renders that trick only useful if you can put that archetype on an improved familiar. As to the bit of luck no there is a reason I even entioned the Fates Favored trait which makes the bonus a bit better, to bad luck bonuses can't stack ;)

@UnArcane Election: Bloodline Familiars: Will likely get mentioned akin to how I did the School Familiars, Can't stand bonded item myself.

@Kurald Galain: both the Magus Archetype and the notation on figment familiars have been added thank you for bringing them to my attention.

@Mathmuse: Ways to protect your familiar will likely be found with the Equipment section (including me introducing my "Masterwork Familiar Carrier" that I got bored and made one day. If you have any tricks you've used please share them I love hearing of new techniques.
Sad part is people abusing familiars (especially Valet) are why some DMs go out of their way to kill them, which encourages people to play with "unkillable pocket familiars" nasty cycle there.

@Stefan Mathur: Thank you for reminding me about that archetype, it has been added.

I am looking very forward to getting into the details of clockwork familiars they are one of the "modifiable" ones that get to be so much fun on a table.

As to me bringing the focus to the Able Assistant is not just for the players, but also some DMs.

I've sat so far at 4 tables that have tried using the familiar as Slap it in a bag let it craft for me while I actually adventure.

The worst offender was the Wizard taking leadership, his cohort was a dwarven wizard. Both wizards had Valet familiars and each of them took the coop crafting feat. They argued that according to their logic they should be able to make a minimum of 8,000 gp worth of enchanted items each or 24k per day of weapons due to the dwarven racial ability.
-- DM shut down the doubling the doubling and they decided they could work with just 3,000 per day of the cohort & 2 familiars while the master was a few miles away adventuring. The DM was not happy but let that ride until I pointed out that clause on Able Assistant.

I was "accidentally" in the AOE of several lethal spells cast by our wizard during our next encounter.

Are you going to write anything about non-traditional uses for familiars?

Once the guide gets to that point yes, First I want to fill in all the basic "traditional" information, then jump off from there into the unusual options (most likely in or just after the "so what does this all mean" section.. Suggestions are welcome and the more information you can supply the more I can add. I of course will always share credit with anyone who contributes.

Ok got around to putting together a guide based around familiar's given how many discussions on them have crossed my path in the last few weeks. Comments and discussion are welcome you can either comment on the guide or here.

Guide to Familiars in Pathfinder by SunderedShadow.

It is not 100% complete yet, but I figured its reached the point where it is worth sharing with other people.

Actually Scott Wilhelm let me make numbers on shatterspike a bit more accurate here.
Adamantine ignores hardness of objects with a hardness of less than 20. so at most it negates 19 hardness.. Most non-enchanted metal items have a hardness of 10, wooden of 5 so its not going to grant that full +19 damage, just the extra off whatever its bypassing. Best case you get lucky and sunder a +4 sword (hardness 18), or any +5 wooden weapon (hardness 15).

The fact the adamantine option is less though is pure win, just figure normally +5-10 dmg for over 1k less.

The Shatterspike: a +1 longsword that gets an extra +3 when used to Sunder by someone who has Improved Sunder. 4315gp.

Not bad, I guess, but not as good as a nonmagical Adamantine Longsword: 3015gp, +1 to Attack, and bypasses the first 20 points of an object's Hardness. Which do you thing is better? +4 Damage or +20 Damage? And the +20 option is more than 1000gp less!

And why would any self-respecting Pathfinder Wizard or Dwarf put the Maul of the Titans enchantments on a Masterwork Greatclub when they could put it on an Adamantine Earthbreaker?

Quintin Verassi wrote:

Slightly off topic, but I no longer use potions at all. Oils can be used just as easily, and are able to be applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc....

this post seems to imply that at least some people think that Oils are better than regular potions because they "...are able to be applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc...".

But I thought regular potions could also be "...applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc"...?

The main reason this gets recommended so much is Multiple people can each apply an oil to a single target.

Barbarian drinks Potion of Enlarge Person.
Wizard Oils him up with Oil of Bull's Strength
Cleric Oils him up with Oil of Bear's Endurance
Rogue Oils him up with Lamp Oil instead of the Oil of Mage Armor just for the Lols.

One spell I did not see mentioned that is a great wand spell is Bed of Iron (1st level wizard, paladin, magus, and a few others).

Lets you sleep in Medium or Heavy armor without being fatigued

Personally I love quickened spell.. in rod form.

In the Crown of the Kobold King, one idea was presented as to how the events of the story effected several of the people involved.

Has anyone ever looked at going back several (game years) later and building up on those suggestions when everyone has grown up?

I've been running a longer campaign and I have been thinking of going back there with the next adventuring party, and let everyone see what has happened over the years. I would like suggestions on what type of builds ot turn some of those non-statted people into, as well as a few possible arcs that would play well in that area again.

Thank you for adding the stars for those who have issues with seeing specific colors or combinations of them, the extra step is appreciated.

I miss playing my old Fochlucan Lyrist, the class was hell to get into, very non optimal, but I loved every session. Started as a Rogue for 2 levels, then a bard for 2, druid for 3, rogue again, then bard again, slipped into Spellsinger for a level then grabbed the Lyrist, this is one of those classes you really dedicate to being a jack of all trades master of none with.

I say keep the full 10 required for the Instrument, and leave Evasion as they are to quote "Warrior, Thief, Spy, Poet, Woodland Champion" The no lawful restriction may work being lifted as "A lyrist can serve as a diplomat, messenger, or assassin as needed" The lawful I think was due to the bards having to be non lawful at one time.

I do like adding in the stack for wild empathy though great idea there.

Think some of the old Merlin stories, Tom B. from the Fellowship of the Ring for a few ideas.

I wonder if anyone put this thing together in hero lab yet, if not I might have to give a hand at trying it.

To answer part of the question regarding changing alignment, to partially quote the Fiendish Codex II, Tyrants of the Nine Hells.

Corrupt Acts: According to the terms of the Pact Primeval as negotiated between Asmodeus and the lawful deities the good that mortals do in life is outweighed by the taint of sin. For each act of evil a PC commits adds to their corruption rating. Any lawful character who dies with a corruption rating of 9 or higher goes to Baator no matter how many orphans he rescued or minions of evil he vanquished. (There is notes on how to turn a Chaotic person lawful for this requirement but that is outside the scope of this current discussion)

1 point sins: Using an evil spell, Humiliating an underling, Engaging in intimidating torture

2 point sins: Stealing from the needy, Desecrating a good church of temple, Betraying a friend or ally for personal gain

3 point sins: Causing gratuitous injury to a creature, Perverting justice for personal gain

(I do not feel the need to go further down that chart than this, which is likely the areas that bard will fall into often)

A few other places to look for references may be Heroes of Horror, & Unearth Arcana, I just don't have time to check those currently.