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So a behir has constrict and swallow whole- if it swallows a creature, does it deal constrict damage to the swallowed creature after the first check on its turn or no?


I'm running a creature with ability against some PCs soon, but I don't know when it is supposed to activate:

Fast Swallow (Ex):
The creature can use its swallow whole ability as a free action at any time during its turn, not just at the start of its turn.

If it grapples a person, does it get to swallow right then, or does it have to wait until its next turn to swallow (still as a free action)?


Arcanic Drake wrote:

"In the Company of..." series of source books tend to make very customizable characters, but I can attest to their balance and sometimes under powered nature compared to core classes. They tend to suffer from having a lot of options, but tend to be specific and niche in many cases (with not a lot of "slots" to fill them with).

1.) For your first question about it being too powerful, not really. The largest bonus is definitely going to be your size (natural weapon dice "size", cmb, cmd, higher str and con) and that's not always useful (small corridors, dungeons, lower bab, lower ac, and lower dex from size mods). You having to take "human" shape is definitely a testament to that as it makes you incredibly weak compared to your dragon shape, in fact it may be unplayable for your use for dungeon exploration as it gets rid of almost all of your abilities and your natural attacks. It is more useful for roleplaying, npc interaction, or disguise. If you want more use, it would probably have to be animal form, or somehow decreasing your size temporarily.

Now, also note that despite you having these options, you barely have any abilities. Its also more difficult to find items that work for you as a dragon due to your body type and the fact that you have to hobble around if you use a magic item that requires you to hold in in your hand.

Not to say that I hate this class/race (I love dragons in general as a rule), but it is a far cry from being a full on dragon.

2.) You generally don't need to care about dex too much. You don't use it for anything besides touch AC and that can be generally mitigated by taking "Enchanted Scales (Su)." 1/2 of your total natural AC bonus is treated as a deflection bonus against touch attacks. Not the end all be all, but it's better than not having it.

Wow, wasn't expecting to get more input on this here.

I've actually started the campaign with this character (grapple build) and he's only just started to shine (he took dirty fighter lvl one and improved grapple at third, where we're at ATM). My DM just had me delay the claws till third level so I wouldn't be outpacing the rest of the party, and the wings until sixth level. Otherwise, I've got the full character sanctioned.

As for humanoid form, I won't have to worry about that till at least 12th level, as I get huge then, and at that point, I can just grapple-->pin-->tie up a creature in one round, so I can (kind of) function in humanoid form. I also will be getting the belt of the weasel, which will give me the compression ability, which will help traversing smaller places.

AC is a problem, but since we use automatic bonus progression, I don't have to worry about item slot loss and the AC items that go in them. And, while it will be VERY expensive at higher levels, I use masterwork armor in combination with armor expert to remove the penalty from race to wear light armor without penalty on attack rolls.

EDIT

Also, the start stats for the character changed, here they are:

16
12
18
11
10
14


If a creature has the grab special ability and successfully grapples some other creature in a claw, what would be the process to move the grappled creature to its bite so that it may attempt to use its swallow whole ability?

i.e

Bite attack misses
Claw attack hits, successfully grapples with claw
Rest of attacks
Grappled creature fails to break grapple
*** [What now if the goal was to do the aforementioned task?]


Then allow me to put word for word what it says:

Prerequisites: Breath weapon, snatch, size Large or greater
A snatched opponent held in your mouth can be swallowed as if you possessed the swallow whole ability. In your stomach the opponent suffers the damage normally dealt by your breath weapon each round (no save).


1) In the content of In the Company of Dragons by Rite Publishing, there is a feat called Belly of the Beast where the character may swallow a snatched character as if they had the swallow whole ability. My question here is where does this description of how the feat works collide with normal grapple and swallow whole?

For example, normal swallow whole goes

Grapple w/ bite ---> grappled character fails to break grapple ---> go to swallow grappled creature as if pinning

Based off the feat description, is it saying that the character can snatch and then immediately attempt to swallow the snatched creature?

Also, do the RAW make it that the character can only use the feat itself when using snatch, meaning to use the feat in question you have to make an attack roll, hit, roll for grapple as apposed to just grappling the target?

2) Belly of the Beast also states that you must be at least large sized to gain it, but snatch required at least huge. Is this just an oversight or is there some way this material intends for you to gain snatch another way that I'm just missing?

Any insight will be well appreciated!


InvisiblePink wrote:

Not really. By introducing third-party material he hasn't approved, you are putting a burden onto him he hasn't asked for- that burden being "determining whether or not your character will be unbalanced"- and proposing further modifications to the 3pp material only makes that burden heavier by giving him more things to analyze, to scrutinize, and to weigh in a way that first-party material generally doesn't require.

That's the real issue here. If your DM hasn't asked for that kind of work, don't put it on him. If he's leery, don't wheedle or cajole- just take the L.

I apologise for the misconception, I see how how I phrased it could have been better. I meant that since the damage the character would be doing would be more than that of another full BAB character and that was the only issue my DM had with the character, would bringing forward my previous mention be something that would alleviate the problem? I'm not planning on making a character that I haven't even been given the greenlight on yet.


InvisiblePink wrote:

The race seems fine. However, the class does seem like it'll be significantly stronger than most first-party martials, especially as you increase in levels. The main issues are your high Strength adding a large amount of flat damage to your multiple primary natural attacks, and your enormous threatened area from your racial bite attack's +1 size special rule and your own naturally-increasing size. You'll be able to make more attacks than anyone else, at a longer range than any other melee characters, at (probably) higher damage than anyone else, and at a comparable attack bonus. This is closer to, say, a Beastmorph Vivisectionist than a Fighter in terms of balance.

Your DM is entirely within his rights to have reservations about this class. A Taninim Brawler- or perhaps a Bloodrager, with similar ability to enlarge from certain bloodlines- would be an easier sell.

Do you think having the character gain their bonus natural attacks at a later dracomorphisis (wings at eighth instead of fourth, tail at twelve, claws at fourth instead of at first) would help with that issue?


Two part question here...

1) So I brought up to my DM the Rite Publishing content of the taninim race and the draconic exemplar class it comes with for the race, and he seems hesitate of the idea. He hasn't come out and said anything, but I figure that he thinks that the class will make me more powerful than the other players by a decent margin. I don't think that I'd be overpowered with it, but perhaps I'm just being blissfully ignorant of the (hypothetical) power discrepancy here.

Race: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/rite-publishing/dragon-tanin im

Class:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/rite-publishing/draconic -exemplar

The start stats are here:

17
11
16
12
10
14

We'll be using automatic bonus progression at 1 for 1. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automati c-bonus-progression/

The character I'm building is intended for a grapple build (to take advantage of the increased size), and all the feats are that line: Dirty Fighter, Improved/Greater Grapple, Rapid Grappler. I also would take flyby attack and snatch once I hit high enough.

The big point here is that the character will grow in size as he gains in levels, gaining strength and constitution, losing dexterity in the process. He would also gain more natural attacks as well, starting with three and gaining two at fourth level and another at eighth. The total stat change from start to end of the class will be +10 strength, +4 constitution and a -8 to dexterity.

As a side note, I pan on taking the humanoid form gift to allow myself to still take part in dungeon crawls as the levels go on (I have informed my DM of this), which makes me more of a situationally effective character as I'd lose most of my main rep in the medium form.

All in all, that's it, and any insight on how I'm wrong (or right) about this class being on par with other full BAB classes would be welcome, and a way to try and convince him (if I'm right) that I won't be outshining others.

2) Are there and opinions of what to do to make the dex minus less jarring? I understand that the bonuses need a minus (and that is it realistically true), but a total of a -8 to dex makes me rather afraid of any undead or user of dex poison. Ideas of what to lose/trade to lessen this blow would be well appreciated.

Thanks ahead of time to any responses!

MISC
1) Campaign is homebrew aquatic, we'll have a ship.
2) As a house rule, we allow ABP's weapon enhancement bonus to apply to a creature for the purpose of natural attacks.
3) As a rule, we allow ABP's armor enhancement bonus to apply to shirts and other clothing, giving them a base armor score of +0.


So, just to make this clear to me, you add to the stomach AC half the creature's natural armor, deflection, and other untyped?


Adjoint wrote:

My opinions:

2), 3) Stomach HP is part of the creature's total HP. When a creature with damaged stomach recovers HP, naturaly or from healing, they can decide whether it heals stomach wounds or other wounds (if such exist).

Thank you, you've given me what I asked for, but could please elaborate on this particular answer a bit more?


I have a few questions about the swallow whole monster ability and how it works with other things:

1-a) If a huge creature swallows a medium creature and then polymorphs into a medium humanoid, what happens to the swallowed creature and swallower now that the swallower is both medium and loses the swallow whole ability?

1-b) If a living creature causes an issue, if and when the swallowed creature dies, would there be an issue with the polymorph then?

2) At what rate does the stomach HP heal?

3) Does damage to the stomach affect total HP, and healing to the creature affect the stomach HP?

4) Do temporary natural armor increases apply to the stomach AC (unlikely to happen, but still curious)?

5) How many creatures can another swallow?

6) Does the stomach damage continue even if the swallower is dead?

7) What does an unconscious/paralyzed/dead swallower mean for the swallowed?

8) Can a creature target another creature inside a third creature's stomach?

9) More of an interpreted question, but if a creature drops their weapon inside another creature, what is the (if possible) process to retrieving the weapon?

10) Can the swallower in anyway "regurgitate" swallowed creatures and/ or items willingly?

11) Can a creature choose to do less/none of their stomach damage to a swallowed creature?

12) Do items also take the stomach damage?

13) Does swallowing a creature affect a creature's current carried weight?

Sorry for the long list, I only originally intended for the first six questions, but found more questions I wanted to ask as I wrote it.

Any insight would be welcome, and I would also like to hear personal reasonings to these questions when there is no actual rules answer.