Solkanis's page

It really depends. I give players enough time to talk for about 30 seconds (speaking as a free action), and getting any knowledge (which adds to the time for them to think and talk) as a free action.

Some builds, I seriously reconsider. For example, reloading takes some time, and I try to make it so that other players can get a chance. Its annoying when a 8th Level Gunslinger makes a build that just deals 80 damage a round because it gets 3 shots in a round. I force them to add in a move action to retrieve additional bullets after the second shot.

Really, its all about moderating your players. If someone is being a douche and taking up all of the time at the table due to his/her free+swift+standard+move-action monkey, I try to limit how many "free" actions are actually possible in a 6 second time frame, just so things do not get stuck at the table. But, if someone is just gearing up for a really huge epic, once-in-a-lifetime attack, I let them do what they need to do... inside the rules, of course.

Its also because I'm an evil GM and I live to see when these epic buildups end in a Natural 1 to screw up the entire chain. ;-)

Speaking of a double barrel shotgun....I would like to point out that someone who practices can fire both barrels, reload both barrels, and fire both barrels again in a span of 6 seconds. (this is a real life example

Hazrond wrote:

Just one thing about Devastating Infusion, it locks your blast at 1d8 with no dice scaling, so your blasts are going to be individually much weaker than a normal kineticist

And combined with working with only physical blasts, it will make DR and hardness a total pain to deal with. Fortunately, as mentioned up-thread, you can still use the regular kinetic blade also.

That said, losing out on the utility talents is just too painful for my tastes.

It doesn't affect the damage of your Ranged Kinetic Blast, only when you use the Melee Devastating Infusion (Kinetic Blade). That becomes 1D8+Con mod.

Solkanis wrote:

Those of you that think pummeling charge can be used with weapons, seem to be missing the words "your charge ends with a mighty haymaker"

How about using a pitchfork, trident, or ranseur?

lol

Ok here is another way of putting it. The requirements for both pummeling style/charge and elemental fist are improved Unarmed strike......then yes it is only usable with unarmed strikes. However....that being said. House rules always supersede book rules. So if a gm allows weapons to be used......well that's their prerogative I guess. Lol

Those of you that think pummeling charge can be used with weapons, seem to be missing the words "your charge ends with a mighty haymaker" A haymaker is a boxing term specific to a wild powerful swing with a fist. The only weapons I would say you could use would be cestus, gauntlets, rope gauntlets, and brass knuckles.

I think you're right. It's stupid and cheesy to use restrictions on something that's part of your body just to decrease the price. And being part of your body is also an advantage in that the tattoo can never be taken from you or sunder, so is justification is flimsy.

Here's how you should handle it. Tell him "I AM THE LAW" and that your word is final.

If they wanted to say that the tattoo did take up a slot then forgo the 2x increase. At that point it would be character story. You have tattoos all over your body but cant use magic items in those slots. That to me seems like a reasonable discount for a tattoo. You could also impose a small cost increase to balance out that they cant be taken from you. Also remember erase works on magical tattoos.

You should really check out the Rage Powers that involve throwing, those are where the Hurling Barbarian gets fun and potentially scary.

Honestly, he can wind up throwing small trees, tables, and entire Ogre corpses at people.

On the other hand, that build is focused on throwing the largest object he can...which is rapidly going to be much bigger than any weapon. So it might not be what you're looking for.

In the UC book there is a feat called "Two Handed Thrower" couple that with Dodge, Point blank shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus, Close quarters Thrower, Deadly Aim, and You will be a devastating Large weapon Throwing fighter. :)

15 point ninja

9 str (10 for the purpose of carrying gear) masterwork backpack
20 dex [+2 belt]
10 con
12 int
9 wis
18 chr [+2 lvl, +2head band]

feats

Weapon Finesse

two-weapon fighting

extra rogue talent (bleeding attack)

point blank shot/shadow strike

Precise Shot/extra rogue talent (Choking Bombs)

improved two-weapon fighting

ninja tricks

Vanishing Trick

Ki Charge/Poison Bombs

Smoke Bombs/ bleeding attack

Wall Climber/ Flurry of Stars

Shadow Clone/powerful sneak

deadly sneak/Invisible Blade/Assassinate/Blinding Bombs /lasting poison

+12/+7 short sword 6d6 +5 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak= 38 as standard action
or +12/+12 +7/+7 short sword 6d6 +5 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak =77 damage in full round
or Flurry of Stars (providing you can use it and two weapon fighting)
6d2 + 5d6 + 5 bleed min 3 damage sneak attacks =26 damage
or Assassinate at dc 19
0r Ki Charge throwing a star knife at +12 doing 2d6 10ft burst main target also takes sneak damage at 6d6 + 5 bleed = 29 to main target and 6 damage to every one else after a full round attacking two targets totaling 106 min damage in one turn
taking into account not adding any other magic items or Poison but the 2 4000 stat bumps you could take things like speed to get a extra attack with each weapon or Axiomatic or Anarchic and adding dueling for 14000 gives you +4 INITIATIVE to ensure you get first strike and Menacing as a +1 to get a +4 to flank for that extra little bit of got to hit if done right and going for just damage you can do about 150 damage done right at lvl 10 or u know Assassinate
Deathblade is a nice Poison lowering your enemy's hp1/rd. for 6 rds. 1d3 Con 2 saves and only costing around 600 gold a dose with craft
and given the way the poison dc stacks up now even Drow poison can be useful so say you use Drow poison and take lasting poison you can loot at a dc of 19 for just Drow poison (providing you hit with every attack)

damage or survivability

all u only have to worry...

I know this an old post but just out of curiosity...why would you use short swords with your ninja when you get the wakizashi feat as a ninja and they are the same dmg as short swords but have an 18-20 crit range?

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

If your characters are high enough level or magically augmented enough that they can't fail a Climb check on a 1 for a routine climb, then they are cool heroes and don't fail that sort of climb. Falling to your death from that sort of climb shouldn't happen to heroes of a certain level.

Falling off of a greased, burning rope, on the other hand....

Exactly my point but i get the rebuff the RULE states you cant fail a skill check with a 1 which I find ridiculous at best.

If its a routine skill check and the skill is high enough by itself to succeed without rolling there is no need to for that person to roll anyways because its "Routine". That's why the game has DC Checks and ways to make a skill check more difficult.

Lets use real life for example...A person has been climbing their entire lives. Ropes, rock faces etc...the school gym rope would be considered routine for them. They are so good that they can climb it just using their hands. So they are asked to climb the rope to show the proper way to climb it. So they use both hands and feet. Do you think that this person would fail??? I think not. Now as the person stated in the quote...you add something to make it difficult such as grease etc....then there would be a chance that person could fail because its no longer routine.

Mergy wrote:

I was not talking about using Lightning Reload. A pistol user can get three shots off per round by level 6 without using it.

Rapid Reload: Reduces the pistol reload to a move action.

Alchemical Round: Reduces reload time one step (move to free) and increases chance of misfire by 1. That's a fair trade to be able to use Rapid Shot every turn.

Lightning Reload is it's own little thing that I would only use if I didn't (for some reason) take a single rank of Craft (Alchemy) to be able to make paper cartridges.

With Rapid Reload and Paper Cartridges, (both of which do not work with a revolver) a powder and shot pistol can technically fire more times in a round (that is, unlimited up to the attacker's maximum shots per round) than a revolver. (6 shots, unless you've already fired without reloading)

Except that what Diego is trying to say, is that even with rapid reload and paper cartridges you can only reload ONE barrel as a free action. This does not mean one at a time until you are satisfied because they are free actions, but that you can reload one barrel once that turn at the cost of no action. Therefore you would get at most two attacks a round with a pistol and not the unlimited up to the attacker's maximum BAB like you think.

That is true for early firearms....however Advanced firearms are different and that is what the original question asked about.

Advanced Firearms....IE Revolvers take a move action to reload to full capacity. Full Capacity for a revolver is 6.
So since you have 6 shots before you have to reload a revolver you could get as many attacks as your BAB would allow. So lets say you have 5 attacks you could in essence make 5 attacks using a full round action. and then Next round use your move action to reload the 5 shots you took the previous round and still get a standard action.

I say this because on page 135 of the Ultimate Combat book you will find....
"Capacity: A firearm’s capacity is the number of shots it
can hold at one time. When making a full-attack action,
you may fire a firearm as many times in a round as you
have attacks, up to this limit, unless you can reload the
weapon as a swift or free action while making a fullattack
action. In the case of early firearms, capacity often
indicates the number of barrels a firearm has. In the case
of advanced firearms, it typically indicates the number of
chambers the weapon has."

And also on Page 136 as i previously quoted....
"Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms are chamberloaded.
It is a move action to load a one-handed or twohanded
advanced firearm to its full capacity."

Does Rapid Reload change the reload speed of Advanced Firearms to a free action? The reason I ask this is because it needs to be asked and to settle and argument with a rules lawyer. If this has already been answered feel free to point me in the right direction or delete this thread.

Here is why rapid reload doesn't change how fast you can reload advanced firearms.....From Page 136 from Ultimate Combat

"Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms are chamberloaded.
It is a move action to load a one-handed or twohanded
advanced firearm to its full capacity."

Note the words to its Full Capacity.....
IE you emptied your revolver during the last round and now to fully reload it to 6 more shots it takes a move action. Not a move action per bullet.

Crafting a Katana 50 gp (500 sp)

1st level expert (human with basic NPC stats, Int 15), takes 10 on his craft check, gets a 16.

Takes him 2 weeks to make one Katana. (thats crap too, but ok)

With Skill Focus and masterwork tools he can get a 21 by taking 10, so then it still takes him 2 weeks to make one katana.

Same expert takes Gunsmithing for his feat. Turns out a revolver every 4 days.

Crying foul because I picked a katana, fine longsword then...
15 gp (150 sp)
16 check: 1 week
21 check: 1 week

Lets be a little more fair and compare them to the other ranged weapons in the Core book...
Light Crossbow 35 gp. 16 check: 2 weeks; 21 check: 2 weeks. For 1 crossbow

Heavy Crossbow 50 gp. 16 check: 3 weeks; 21 check: 2 weeks. For 1 crosssbow

Shortbow 30 gp. 16 check: 2 weeks; 21 check: 2 weeks. For 1 bow

Composite Shortbow 75 gp. 16 check: 4 weeks; 21 check: 3 weeks. For 1 bow

Longbow 75 gp. 16 check: 4 weeks; 21 check: 3 weeks. For 1 bow

Composite Longbow 100 gp. 16 check: 5 weeks; 21 check: 4 weeks. For 1 bow

Hand Crossbow* 100 gp. 16 check: 4 weeks; 21 check: 3 weeks. For 1 crossbow

Light Repeating Crossbow* 250 gp. 16 check: 9 weeks; 21 check: 7 weeks. For 1 crossbow

Heavy Repeating Crossbow* 400 gp. 16 check: 14 weeks; 21 check: 11 weeks. For 1 crossbow
* I used DC 18 to craft these exotic ranged weapons since there is no entry on the Craft chart and logically they should be somewhat more difficult to craft than a regular crossbow.

1 bowyer can turn out 13 longbows per year.
1 gunsmith can turn out 78 revolvers per year.

I know what your thinking higher level craftsmen will make items faster, true. But thats higher level experts, which are not as common as 1st level experts.
Lets look at a 16th level expert [Int 19, masterwork tools, skill focus] craft +31
Longbow: 41 check: 2 weeks. [1st level gunsmith still makes 3 guns]
41 times 12 = 492 sp of progress out of 750 sp.
or he could go ahead and take the +10 to the DC and then he gets it done in 1 week....

If you understood the different methods it takes to make a Katana vs a firearm you would understand why it takes much longer to craft a Katana than it does to craft a Firearm.

The earliest method of making barrels was by hand forging and then fire welding the length of barrel. This of course is just the barrel. The Stock and firing mechanism would be a bit more time consuming but not compared to a Katana.

The forging of a Katana blade required
Pound the tamahagane into two separate blades. These need to be heated, pounded by hand, and folded 1,000 times each to remove the impurities. Pound one of them another 1,000 times to make it harder than the other.

Curve the harder blade lengthwise into the shape of a "U," then insert the softer blade. Pound them together so that they make one blade. Sharpen the soft inner core to hold a razor edge and craft a point at the tip. The harder outer casing will give the katana strength.

Paint the katana blade with a layer of clay. Slather it on thick over the hard steel and place a thin layer over the soft steel sharpened part.

Fire the katana until it glows, then thrust it into a pool of cool water. As you do this, the blade will heat and cool at different rates because of the different layers of clay. This will cause the katana to curve backwards from the blade. Repeat this process dozens of times until it reaches the desired shape.

So as you can see the actual crafting time would be longer when forging a Katana vs an early Firearm.

Oh and one more thing, Gunslingers and guns are not 'optional' they are fully legal for Pathfinder Society Play.

By your reasoning Druids are optional, horses are optional, daggers are optional.

Thats just breaking out your rule 0 because you have no other tool in your debate repertoire.

Yes I know I can use rule 0, for anything I want to, but my point is I dont have to use it for Druids, and horses, and daggers, or anything in the Core book or the APG or UM,so I shouldn't have to do it for 1 particular piece of equipment from UC.

IF it had been balanced properly within the rules.

When we say that its an optional class we are saying that....A GM has ultimate control in their game so every class can be optional. In fact I am currently playing in a game where magic is limited so magical classes are not available to play.