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Title.
Still requires you to have a flurry, but being able to do it with weapons is nice.
How do you know?
It actually doesn't require you to have Flurry. Non-Monks/Brawlers/Sacred Fists can take it, too. They only get Pummeling Charge like 4 levels later, though (BAB +12 instead of Monk/Brawler lvl 8).
Didn't realize the BAB requirement was part of the or. That makes it even better.
Shame Pummeling Bully doesn't have Imp Reposition OR Imp trip. Ah well. Still nice.
This is mostly just a bit of madness that is going on in the rules forum. I'll grab the quote from there
Pummeling Style (Combat, Style)
You collect all your power into a single vicious and debilitating punch.Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike; base attack bonus +6, brawler's flurry† class feature, or flurry of blows class feature.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can pool all your attack potential in one devastating punch. Make a number of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with a full attack or a flurry of blows (your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous rolls (if any). If any of the attack rolls are critical threats, make one confirmation roll for the entire attack at your highest base attack bonus. If it succeeds, the entire attack is a confirmed critical hit.
The feat goes on to discuss punching in several sections, and it is fairly cut and dry that it is meant for unarmed brawlers/monks.
The problem here is a slight disjunction in where it doesn't explicitly say it uses unarmed attacks for the 'pooled potential damage'.
Cue a tons of arguments and people cherrypicking so they can ignore 40% of the text by calling it 'flavor text'. Wash, rince, repeat, and watch developer tears as we make them issue a FAQ just days after release on a fairly obvious issue.
But even if you argue that all the attack and damage rolls come from some other weapon besides an unarmed strike (madness, but hey, sake of argument), it is still clearly defined as being delivered via a punch (a type of unarmed strike). So I could then argue that you can't use this with 2 handed weapons, since you need a hand free.
I'm not sure why it's "madness". Yes, the feat implies that it's punching and Yes, the fun police will probably try to FAQ it away sooner rather than later, but you don't need to cherry pick or go insane to see that the body of the text has no comment on weapon use.
I have no idea why you're being so hostile about it.
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Because a fighter with 4 attacks with a falchion and improved critical has an 82% chance of threatening crit...with his whole full attack. And he confirms with his highest BAB. The feat was written around boring old 20/x2 unarmed strikes (an flurry without anything like improved critical gets close to a 30% chance of a full attack crit...slightly saner). This feat is patently broken with anything else.
Plus, pummel is part of a chain that also gives you what is essentially pounce, since Pummel charge lets you charge while you pummel.
That, and how are you delivering the potential of a sword blow with a punch?
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Did this really require another thread for the same people to repeat their same opinion over and over?
Some people think it only works unarmed. Others think it works with weapons.
Another thread arguing over the relevance of the word 'punch' is pointless- until there is an official FAQ on it, it's up to your GM. Have the argument with her.
Did this really require another thread for the same people to repeat their same opinion over and over?
I didn't see anyone mention it and I didn't see any arguments, so I figured I'd bring it up because it's a cool fun trick.
That is underplaying some of the advantages of Pummel (getting around damage reduction and putting crappy iteratives to use) and Pummel Charge (which is MUCH stronger and basically what makes Pummeling Style worth it), but pure damage is not the reason why Pummeling Style is interesting at all, even if you were to use it with a weapon.
EDIT: Never mind, I thought it worked like Dead Shot. Apparently it adds Static bonuses on each success too...that IS dumb.
Yeah, you can see what happens when you aren't playing with vanilla unarmed strikes, right? Even unarmed strikes get a wee bit crazy if you add improved critical to it.
If it wasn't for the fact that this book was just released, I would say they need to errata it to both limit unarmed strikes and making it more like dead shot. That would allow the main advantages (throwing DR into a locker after giving it a swirly, as well as pummel charge) without too much madness.
Overall, I fear that this feat will be buried in the same pit that synthesists and leadership were banished to. I love the intended effect and the idea, the execution......eh. I defend my position so hard because I want this to stay a 'thing'.
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I'd hardly say that monks finally being able to actually move and do decent damage at the same time (something the class was touted as being able to do since the PHB came out) is really all that ridiculous.
In the end, it's just a way to get around DR and finally get some mobility for flurrying. Or at the very least, that's how I assume it's intended to be used.
That would probably help, but Deadshot I think is setting the bar a little too low (since from my experience most gunslingers avoid it like the plague and monks like static mods almost as much as the pistoleros).
Biggest offender seems to be the ability to turn all your attacks into crits if just one of them does, so if anything gets nerfed it should probably be that.
What's interesting to me is that BAB +6 can fulfill the requirements for this feat... You can fairly easily get this feat without having access to Flurry at all.
I think the intention of the feat is to be used for TWF builds. It's definitely a Monk toy, though sadly enough it's much better for Brawler Fighters looking to TWF with cesti (for Monks it's competing with dragon style... and the only Monk archetype that can use both loses flurry).
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This is what I find funny... Martials FINALLY get a nice thing! They can effectively "charge and full attack" and what happens? People are trying to complain to force it into a tiny niche (unarmed attacks)... there by taking away all the fun xD
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I would limit it to close weapons probably. Because while I understand not letting you get Scythe Flurry of Death with this, I don't see why I can't punch with a punching dagger, cestus, or set of brass knuckles.
This is what I find funny... Martials FINALLY get a nice thing! They can effectively "charge and full attack" and what happens? People are trying to complain to force it into a tiny niche (unarmed attacks)... there by taking away all the fun xD
This is a nice thing for Martials, but it [the first feat] only helps 2WFers or similar builds because they are the only ones with DR issues[even Strength rogues don't have a problem from my experience]. Other than that, it just gives an excessive critical hit mechanic. Which helps with damage. Something Martials already do well. Now, were this something like a feat that gave them a solid physical defense mechanic[Crane Wing, pre-nerf], solid mental defense, or some abnormal mobility mechanic[such as flight], I'd agree with you, as that is what martials need help with. But the insane crits, that's pure damage. Now, mix in pummeling charge, and you've fixed one of the issues[normal mobility], and I agree that should be available to more builds than just Unarmed Strikes. Which is why I give it to all close weapons.
It looks like a neat way to conserve charges with technological weapons! 1 charge for a full-round attack.
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We already have a very active thread on the question going over <here>. To keep the discussion (& FAQ flagging!) in one place, why don't we move this branch of it over there?
Thanks!
:-)
This is what I find funny... Martials FINALLY get a nice thing! They can effectively "charge and full attack" and what happens? People are trying to complain to force it into a tiny niche (unarmed attacks)... there by taking away all the fun xD
If it was just 'move and attack', then this would be less of an argument, and I would argue it based off flavor and designer intent.
The problem here is the stuff about criticals. If any of your attacks threaten a critical, then the whole full attack threatens a critical, and it is resolved with your highest BAB.
The crit stuff is what drives this over the top, since it was balanced against the unarmed strike's terrible crit range. That part is what will bury this next to synthesists and leadership if it isn't reigned in to just unarmed strikes (maybe prevent critical stuff from stacking with it too)
Those of you that think pummeling charge can be used with weapons, seem to be missing the words "your charge ends with a mighty haymaker" A haymaker is a boxing term specific to a wild powerful swing with a fist. The only weapons I would say you could use would be cestus, gauntlets, rope gauntlets, and brass knuckles.
My haymakers are made with greatswords! Bet the other boxer didn't see through my "brought a sword to fist fight" haymaker. /humor
The real problem is that "fist" specific langauge doesn't help, unless you intend to tell me Elemental Fist only works with punches... The real issue is feats/abilities being written like unarmed attacks are made with fists and while that is indeed a common one it is far from the only unarmed attack. Some better language regarding unarmed attacks rules would be greatly appreciated.
Those of you that think pummeling charge can be used with weapons, seem to be missing the words "your charge ends with a mighty haymaker"
How about using a pitchfork, trident, or ranseur?
This is mostly just a bit of madness that is going on in the rules forum. I'll grab the quote from there
Pummeling Style (Combat, Style)
You collect all your power into a single vicious and debilitating punch.Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike; base attack bonus +6, brawler's flurry† class feature, or flurry of blows class feature.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can pool all your attack potential in one devastating punch. Make a number of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with a full attack or a flurry of blows (your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous rolls (if any). If any of the attack rolls are critical threats, make one confirmation roll for the entire attack at your highest base attack bonus. If it succeeds, the entire attack is a confirmed critical hit.
The feat goes on to discuss punching in several sections, and it is fairly cut and dry that it is meant for unarmed brawlers/monks.
The problem here is a slight disjunction in where it doesn't explicitly say it uses unarmed attacks for the 'pooled potential damage'.
Cue a tons of arguments and people cherrypicking so they can ignore 40% of the text by calling it 'flavor text'. Wash, rince, repeat, and watch developer tears as we make them issue a FAQ just days after release on a fairly obvious issue.
But even if you argue that all the attack and damage rolls come from some other weapon besides an unarmed strike (madness, but hey, sake of argument), it is still clearly defined as being delivered via a punch (a type of unarmed strike). So I could then argue that you can't use this with 2 handed weapons, since you need a hand free.
I love how you are so fixated on the word punch... Last I checked, there is no PUNCH attack. And if, lets say, I stylized my guy as a Kick Boxer, does that mean I do not get this feat? Seeing as the feat CLEARLY says punch and Kicks are CLEARLY not punches! What about a guy who like to shoulder check people? Is that out now too? Lets not forget elbows and knees!!!
That poor Muay Thai fighter... apperantly he just can't stand up to that boxer...
How do you know?
Because it doesn't specify that you have to make an unarmed strike to use it. Simple as that.
Those of you that think pummeling charge can be used with weapons, seem to be missing the words "your charge ends with a mighty haymaker" A haymaker is a boxing term specific to a wild powerful swing with a fist. The only weapons I would say you could use would be cestus, gauntlets, rope gauntlets, and brass knuckles.
That is flavor text and utterly, completely, and totally irrelevant to its mechanical operation.
Ok here is another way of putting it. The requirements for both pummeling style/charge and elemental fist are improved Unarmed strike......then yes it is only usable with unarmed strikes. However....that being said. House rules always supersede book rules. So if a gm allows weapons to be used......well that's their prerogative I guess. Lol
So you're claiming that every feat with Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite can only be used with unarmed attacks ? Perfect Strike rather firmly disproves that premise.