The word "Acute" isn't a keyword category. Senses are either vague, precise, or imprecise. None of these feats upgrade scent above imprecise, which means you've largely sunk a bunch of feats into redundant things covered by your background. Generally you can assume nothing stacks unless the effect specifically says so. Your low-light being upgraded to dark vision specifically says so, and scent does not. So open and shut case.
Instinctive Strike works fine-- letting you ignore flat checks to target hidden or concealed for strikes. Supernatural Senses does so little once you have Instinctive Strike I'm surprised one isn't a prerequisite for the other. It just lets you lower the flat checks when you target enemies for anything other than strikes. Athletics action like grapple being the easiest example. You could also argue only the flavor text mentions smelling the enemy so it applies even if you can't RAW, but that feels like a stretch by RAI.
Nocturnal Senses gives you a longer range on your scent, which is pretty niche since it only applies while raging. (Ie it won't warn you if someone is sneaking up outside of combat.) The Acute Sense feat does nothing for you.
I would ditch every class feat but instinctive strike if I were you. One of the cool things about scent is some GMs will let you sniff enemies within 15 feet of a door. They might even let you try and identify the creature with a Recall Knowledge check with a hard or very hard adjustment. Sadly you don't get that with the raging sense feats only applying in combat. It is much better to get scent which is always on through a background, or better yet a heritage or ancestry feat. Feral Child costing you an ability boost is expensive. Some build concepts might not be able to spare stuff from the ancestry side but there are very few ancestry abilities worth giving up multiple class feats for.
Thanks for your advice. I see what you mean about redundancy... It seems I would save a bunch of feats by sticking with Instinctive Strike and the imprecise scent I get from the Feral Child background. Thanks again for analyzing my situation.
All but Nocturnal Senses reference the Acute Scent ability by name, and for that one i guess it is an error and should also be "Acute Scent" instead of only Scent.
You should qualify for all of them.
Thanks, thats what I suspected but wanted other's opinions before I commit to anything.
I'm building a 9th level Orc Barbarian for an upcoming campaign and I took the Feral Child Background which grants Imprecise Scent 30ft... I also took the following Barbarian Class Feats:
- ACUTE SCENT: No Prerequisites: When your anger is heightened, your sense of smell improves. While you’re raging, you gain imprecise scent with a range of
30 feet.
- SUPERNATURAL SENSES: Prerequisites Acute Scent or scent:
Your scent is preternaturally sharp, and you can always rely
on your sense of smell to help guide you when your vision
is compromised. When you target a concealed or hidden
opponent while you are raging, you reduce the DC of the flat
check to 3 for a concealed target or to 9 for a hidden one.
- NOCTURNAL SENSES: Prerequisites low-light vision or scent
Your senses gain even greater clarity. While raging, if you have
low-light vision you gain darkvision, and if you have scent the
range of your imprecise scent increases to 60 feet.
- INSTINCTIVE STRIKE: Prerequisites Acute Scent or scent
You trust your instincts and your sense of smell, using all your
senses to pinpoint your opponent’s location. When you make
a melee Strike against an opponent you’re detecting using
scent, ignore any flat check required due to the target being
concealed or hidden.
My question here is Am I even qualified for these feats (beyond the first) which require Acute Scent or Scent when I only have Imprecise Scent?
Does seem like your GM needs to settle a bit, and get more comfortable with the rules, but I don't think it's unfair to up challenges to meet the PCs where they're at. I'd say if he's that worried about wiping out the other players, then group tactics and individual builds need to be examined.
The fighters SHOULD be the hardest characters to take down in combat, but that means that you two should be actively defending the other characters, using positioning and terrain to limit access to your casters as much as possible.
That said, clerics, druids, witches, and alchemists can all be absurdly badass. Those characters should be able to contribute to their own defenses in many ways, and their players should be doing their parts to contribute to good tactical play.
If there's a huge disparity in system mastery between you and the other players, see if your GM would be open to you helping your stablemates tweak their characters a bit (assuming your other players are open to that sort of help).
1) Yeah, I dont think it unfair, Im just worried how the others will feel.
2) Yes, we try to shield our fellow players but the tend to spread out a bit making it difficult sometimes, lol.
3) Well some of our players arent really maximizing their potential (not that theres anything wrong with that).
4) Ive been waiting for a near TPK to suggest exactly that.
I'm dying to know Soapbox, did your GM finally concede the point?
He DID! Just last night. Now my modifier for Overrun is +16 at 4th level (even more if I rage or use my mutagen)!
He was dubious about me using the internet and this chat forum as a source of knowledge, but couldn't deny the evidence from the core rulebook you all provided me!
He also warned me that now he will have to increase the challenge ratings of future battles because otherwise I will literally be bowling over his monsters.
In this party there is me, Barbarian/Fighter, then a straight up Fighter, a cleric, a druid, an alchemist, and a witch.
He said he will be forced to kill off the other players just to challenge me and the Fighter in an average combat.
But I plan to calm him down by how I play... Using my special attacks sparingly.
Lets hope that works!
point out to the DM that a lot of the bonuses to AC also add to cmd. dodge, deflection, ect
Miscellaneous Modifiers
A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature’s AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.
Thats right, thanks for bringing that up. I already mentioned to him that creatures with multiple sets of legs get bonuses for that (+2 per set), and creature bigger than Large I cant even try to Overrun.
When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack. If your target does not avoid you, make a combat maneuver check as normal.
The enemies are only bowled over if they try to stop you.
But if you do succeed by 5 or more, you are just knocking them prone. It’s hardly combat ending. I don’t know why your GM thinks this has somehow broken his game.
Well, I have the Improved Overrun feat as well, so the enemies cannot choose to avoid me and I do not provoke an attack of opportunity from them.
I'm dying to know Soapbox, did your GM finally concede the point?
He DID! Just last night. Now my modifier for Overrun is +16 at 4th level (even more if I rage or use my mutagen)!
He was dubious about me using the internet and this chat forum as a source of knowledge, but couldn't deny the evidence from the core rulebook you all provided me!
He also warned me that now he will have to increase the challenge ratings of future battles because otherwise I will literally be bowling over his monsters.
In this party there is me, Barbarian/Fighter, then a straight up Fighter, a cleric, a druid, an alchemist, and a witch.
He said he will be forced to kill off the other players just to challenge me and the Fighter in an average combat.
But I plan to calm him down by how I play... Using my special attacks sparingly.
There is no such thing as Taking 20 in this edition and even if we were to use the first edition Taking20 it assumes you can repeat the check until you make it which you cannot in this scenario.
Furthermore the lockout happens on a failure with you(or your innovation) taking damage on a critical failure.
It is however true that you can treat it as similar to Lay on Hands for extra healing whenever you have 10 minutes to spare.
Oh, I didn't even catch that Taking 20 doesn't even exist in 2E! Thanks for the explanation. I'm thinking it will be an ability I'll only use outside combat unless some one is very desperate.
I'm building my first "Inventor" character (at 3rd level) and I have selected the "Searing Restoration" ability which seems very powerful to me. I understand that it carries the "unstable" trait which forces a flat check every time I use the power in combat (and brings a temporary lockout on a crit failure).
Is there anything preventing me from using the power out of combat and Taking 20 on the flat check each time? Am I maybe misunderstanding how that works?
Note that the "same source" is a bit vague. Generally, it's assumed to mean that multiple castings of the exact same spell or effect can't benefit you more than once. But there is an FAQ that made it a little more vague:
Well either source should work. For what it's worth I still have a physical copy of the original CRB. The quote you're looking for in in Chapter 9 "Magic", "Special Spell Effects" section, "Bonus Types", page 208, first continued paragraph of the second column, last sentence.
Oh, thank you so much for pointing out the exact location. I know that my GM has a hard copy of the CRB because I've seen it. This should settle the argument. Thanks again.
Bonus
Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.
The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don’t generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.
"Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source." THATS the ticket! I hope he'll accept d20pfrsd. Thank you for hunting this down!
From the magic chapter of the CRB under spell effects:
"Bonus Types: Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects). The same principle applies to penalties—a character taking two or more penalties of the same type applies only the worst one, although most penalties have no type and thus always stack. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source."
Edit: frustratingly I cannot find this rule on Nethys, I had to go to the legacy PRD to pull it, if your GM is working of Nethys as a primary source that could be the cause of this issue.
This is probably the issue (using Nethys). Thank you for researching it!
A few weeks ago, I wrote on here asking to confirm that the bonuses from Improved Overrun and Bulette Charge Style stack. I was assured that I am remembering correctly and that they do, in fact, stack. Thanks to all that replied!
However, my GM doesn't believe me! Its NOT that he is merely ruling against me, which I could accept (Rule Zero and all that)... No, the problem is that he disagrees with the notion, which I find so hard to accept. But I figured, hey, if I can show him the rule in the CRB, he will believe me, and may change his mind.
SO, I went to look up the general rule in the CRB on ArchivesofNethys and I found no such ruling! I searched for "stack" "stacking" "untyped"... Am I just looking past it? Is it maybe never explicitly stated? Any advice will be appreciated.
Overrun has the weaknesses against larger creatures, flying creatures, and creatures with more than two legs. Creatures also have the option to avoid it and just let you run through. No CMD check, no worry about being knocked prone; nor does it require a great deal of intelligence to get out of the way.
Also make sure any penalties are being added correctly, -2 for extra legs, -2 for each additional creature you overrun, etc.
Wolf has base CMD of 14, so 18 against overrun for first wolf, 20 against next, and so on. Plus you have to be at that by 5 to knock prone, so 23+ for first, 25+ for second, etc.
Oh, yes, I considered these weaknesses when building the character and I'm at peace with them. I don't want to be the only player getting a chance to do cool stuff, so weaknesses are a good thing in that light. My character is weak in several ways. For example, Will and Reflex are poor.
Also, Improved Overrun states "Targets of your overrun attempt may not chose to avoid you."
In the one attack I used Overrun for, I targeted 2 wolves and defeated their CMD's very easily. This may be because I was Raging so my STR mod alone was +7 and my Overrun CMB was +16
That's a long-winded way of saying "make sure you have a plan to diversify your character."
SUPER good advice. Thank you. I was considering some of this even after my first time using my feats based on the GM's reaction.
I'm thinking of changing directions a bit (after I get Bulette Rampage and Combat Reflexes) to go into a Improved Sunder direction, but I havent looked into it yet.
One thing to keep in mind is that bulette charge style requires you to spend a swift action to enter the stance and you cannot use a style feat before combat.
Rule 0 is not so much that the GM is always right, but that the GM can alter any part of the game he wants to. Your GM can simply house rule that in his campaigns they do not stack, or he could simply not allow the feat.
Yes, I made a point of taking the Swift action and I even played it up, describing how my character goes down in to a sprint runner's stance and pretends to blow a little whistle. lol
Yes, Im a little concerned that he will rule that they dont stack, but I think he is going to let me at least keep the feats.
They do stack. It's a total of +6 from the two feats.
(Bulette Charge Style is a little awkwardly worded. You only get the +4 bonus if you are wearing heavy armor. You can get that bonus regardless of your class. If you are wearing light or medium armor AND have the armor training class feature you get a lower bonus. But all are in addition to the bonus from Improved Overrun.
...
yep
as stated your GM usually has game balance reasons in mind. It is good to look at the other PCs and encounters. If you are thrashing them in 3-7 rounds then there isn't currently a play issue.
If your GM wants to slow things down for a bit, lowering XP and gold (75%-50%) does that pretty effectively.
Yeah, I think he was just weirded out that I knocked down 3/4 of his wolf pack in one charge (I have Bulette Leap feat as well). So he was only concerned with game balance. I think once I talk to him again about it, with the points made in this thread, he will feel more comfortable... I hope.
However, remember rule #0, The GM is always right.
FACTS. This is why I didnt make a big deal when he stopped me from using it, but I waited until after the session to talk to him about it. If he persists in his ruling, I will ask to be allowed to swap out for different feats.
If your GM still thinks your numbers are high, you can ask him to compare to a trip specialist.
A trip just needs to beat your opponent's CMD to knock him prone. Overrun has to beat the CMD by 5 to knock the opponent prone. Even if you have +6 from both Improved Overrun and Bulette Style, someone with only Improved Trip still has a better chance to knock his opponent prone.
** spoiler omitted **
I will take what you said in the spoiler as future advice. Lol!
If your GM still thinks your numbers are high, you can ask him to compare to a trip specialist.
A trip just needs to beat your opponent's CMD to knock him prone. Overrun has to beat the CMD by 5 to knock the opponent prone. Even if you have +6 from both Improved Overrun and Bulette Style, someone with only Improved Trip still has a better chance to knock his opponent prone.
** spoiler omitted **
GREAT point! I will mention this to him. He is very reasonable.
They do stack. It's a total of +6 from the two feats.
(Bulette Charge Style is a little awkwardly worded. You only get the +4 bonus if you are wearing heavy armor. You can get that bonus regardless of your class. If you are wearing light or medium armor AND have the armor training class feature you get a lower bonus. But all are in addition to the bonus from Improved Overrun.)
Bonus question: No. It can be done "during your move or as part of a charge." Charge has to be a straight line but move does not. Bear in mind that the overrun attempt takes a standard action, so if you knock your enemy prone you don't have a standard left to attack with.
Ok, Thanks and thanks for answering the bonus question. And yes, I know that I cant attack in the same round that I Overrun (except for attack of opportunity).
I've built an overrun specialist for the home game I'm playing in and the first time I used it, my GM was like "whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on!" He really didn't like the ease with which I was bowling over enemies!
So he examined my character sheet closely now, and the only thing he noticed was that he doesn't think that the bonus for Improved Overrun should stack with the bonus from Bulette Charge Style.
Improved Overrun says:
You are skilled at running down your foes.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing an overrun combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to overrrun a foe. You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to overrun you. Targets of your overrun attempt may not chose to avoid you.
Normal: You provoke an attack of opportunity when performing an overrun combat maneuver.
Bulette Charge Style says:
You use the weight of your armor to enhance the momentum of your charge.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Improved Overrun, Power Attack, proficiency with heavy armor.
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks to overrun an opponent. Any magic ability or material that reduces your armor check penalty also reduces the bonus you gain for this style.
Special: A character with the armor training class feature can use Bulette Charge Style while wearing any type of armor with which she is proficient. Medium armor grants a +3 bonus, and light armor grants a +2 bonus.
Do these bonuses stack? I seem to recall that UNTYPED bonuses stack but I may be wrong.
Bonus question: Does an Overrun attempt have to be in a straight line?
The reason I am building a 6th level character: I used to play some years ago and then the pandemic decimated our lodge.
During this time, I took a job that was 90% travel.
In the course of one of many moves, I lost all my PFS documentation...everything!
So now I have a new job and have settled in a specific area.
I went to the local PFS lodge and started playing at level one.
While I was playing, I bemoaned the loss of my old characters to the VC of the lodge.
Well, he told me that if I pull up my old data on the Paizo website under Organized Play, and I can demonstrate that I had been issued those chronicles I lost, and that I had adequate Fame for the level of the character, then I can rebuild my character(s) and continue playing them from where I left off! Isnt that nice?
So my highest level 2E character was a 6th level Barbarian. I am trying to rebuild him fairly, hence the questions in my OP.
It sounds like you want the Remaster rebuild guide's gold table. This is for characters taking advantage of the one free rebuild they gave out for the Remaster. As long as your character played a reported game before November 15, 2023 and haven't rebuilt already, you'll just have the gold from the relevant line of the table.
Oh, Wow! Thats exactly what I need! Thank you so much.
The reason I am building a 6th level character: I used to play some years ago and then the pandemic decimated our lodge.
During this time, I took a job that was 90% travel.
In the course of one of many moves, I lost all my PFS documentation...everything!
So now I have a new job and have settled in a specific area.
I went to the local PFS lodge and started playing at level one.
While I was playing, I bemoaned the loss of my old characters to the VC of the lodge.
Well, he told me that if I pull up my old data on the Paizo website under Organized Play, and I can demonstrate that I had been issued those chronicles I lost, and that I had adequate Fame for the level of the character, then I can rebuild my character(s) and continue playing them from where I left off! Isnt that nice?
So my highest level 2E character was a 6th level Barbarian. I am trying to rebuild him fairly, hence the questions in my OP.
Does anyone know if there is a PFS-specific wealth-by-level chart somewhere? I tried searching for it but the closest I could find was on Archives of Nethys, but that one is not PFS specific and I seem to recall that wealth in PFS was a bit behind the curve on average.
Also, I'm building a 6th level PFS Barbarian and I need to know what is an appropriate load out at that level... Can I choose magic items of my level or lower all willy nilly, or is there some rails I need to follow that would limit my choices?
Also, I believe Gnomes are much shorter than Halflings. I think Halflings come up to about waist-high on a typical Human while Gnomes only come up about knee-high, right?
Yes, but you shouldn't use the short bow. Use the gakgung. Its a 1d6/propulsive/d8 deadly/monk bow with 100ft range. The flurry of blows only works for half the first range increment, so you trade a 1D10 for 1D8 deadly and get 20ft extra range on your flurry of blows with the bow.
Oh! That would be better. What resource book is the gakgung in? Also, is it PFS legal?
"Any time an ability is specifically restricted to a longbow, such as Erastil's favored weapon, it also applies to composite longbows unless otherwise stated."
I've started playing a Monk using Monastic Archer Stance using a composite shortbow. Monastic Archer Stance feat imparts proficiency with shortbows and longbows. However, it recently occurred to me that proficiency with shortbow and longbow does not necessarily mean I have proficiency with composite bows. So my question is, does proficiency in bows mean I'm also proficient with composite bows?
Small note on that- Firing through a creature's square(ally or enemy) gives anything behind it lesser cover(so a +1 circumstance to AC). But that can be avoided by lining up your shots without something in between.
Noted. Thank you. I built a ranged character as my first 2E character but dont know anything much about the rules.
"Precise Shot" is no longer a feat in 2E so far as I can tell, so how does a ranged combatant avoid the penalty for firing into melee (-4, I believe)? Or is it that this penalty is no longer a thing as well?
I am a bit disappointed one can't punch while wielding a bow. :/
I guess you could still kick :)
Thanks for answering my question. Here's another:
When I Flurry as part of a full attack, is my multiple attack penalty
0, 0, 5, 10
or
0, 5, 10, 15?
In Monastic Archer Stance, you specifically can't kick, or punch with the hand that isn't holding the bow, for that matter. That's the restriction the stance brings that doesn't apply to any bow wielder who isn't using that stance.
As for the MAP
0, -5, -10, -10.
MAP maxes out and is the same for the 3rd attack and all subsequent attacks.
Oh, wow, that IS a big bummer! I guess one would have to dismiss the stance in order to punch or kick. Does dismissing the stance take an action?
There is no full attack. You could use flurry of blows and then make two more strikes, but that' doesn't have a special name. Flurry of Blows interacts with the multiple attqck penalty normally, so the second strike will be at a greater penalty unless you'd already made two attacks before in the turn.
Ah! Im new to 2E, still learning the nuances. Thanks
Monastic Archer Stance says, "While in this stance, the only Strikes
you can make are those using longbows, shortbows, or bows
with the monk trait. You can use Flurry of Blows with these
bows. You can use your other monk feats or monk abilities
that normally require unarmed attacks with these bows when
attacking within half the first range increment (normally 50
feet for a longbow and 30 feet for a shortbow), so long as the
feat or ability doesn’t require a single, specific Strike."
Does this mean that I can Flurry of Blows by shooting arrows, or does it mean that I use the bow itself as a melee weapon to do melee attacks?
Im thinking its the former rather than the latter since it mentions range increments.
Wow, so many great responses! Thank you all for talking me out of this! I didn't realize that witch was so vulnerable. And you guys caught that I had messed up and gone 18 STR when thats not (normally) possible.
I still kinda want to do it anyway BUT I wont because I dont want to be a drag on the party.
Thank you all for your thoughtful input!
I'm STILL waiting (its been over 2 months) for our first 2E campaign to start, and so I got bored and started building back-up characters. One idea I had, and really like, is that of a Witch that uses an Orc Necksplitter wading into melee combat (after casting Mystic Armor of course).
So I made the character, and in my head it works well but I'm worried that its wishful thinking. I gave her 18 STR and 16 INT and her other scores are unremarkable.
Does this seem like a bad idea? I'm thinking she could take Fighter dedication too which might help.
Nope, you should still be fine to cast spells. That's a mechanic from PF1E, inherited from D&D 3.5, which hasn't crossed over into PF2E. Dunno if it's in 5E or not, but either way you're fine.
Heck, you could still cast spells with a negative charisma if you wanted to. As a champion you may not even notice much difference, at least if you're using LoH exclusively to heal, or Shields of the Spirit, or domains that don't care about save DCs.
I'm creating a Champion with the Deity's Domain feat. However, he will only have a 10 Charisma. Can a Champion with +0 attribute modifier still cast spells? I understand that his Spell DC's will be super low but is there any reason that this won't work at all?
Thats... a great idea! Ruffian that acts like a barbarian. But then I should take Barbarian dedication, right?
I would suggest that you make more of a distinction between what character you want to play and what you would like mechanically.
You can be an angry person and have that represented by any number of classes.
Or wielding a big stick and have that supported by a variety of classes.
A barbarian with rogue archetype will be a sturdy frontline damage dealer with some extras, while a Rogue is a bit more fragile (less hp), but offers more skills - and is probably better off without barbarian archetype.
Also depends on your game, if you play with free archetype its a lot easier, of course.
I see what you mean. Since I started this thread I've looked deeper into the character build and I feel like I probably don't want any Barbarian dedication feats on this character... The Rogue feats are just too good. I think now that I can accomplish what I intended just by going full Rogue Ruffian that's focused on Intimidation.
Note that if you score a critical w/ a pick, the weapon die increases too high to allow your Sneak Attack. A Deadly weapon might be preferable to a Fatal one. A pick's higher critical could make up for it, but it's something to note.
This is exactly the kind of info I came here for. Thank you so much, I wouldn't have known otherwise.
Good enough of an excuse for me! I'll start work on Ironfang's encounters, and see if that's not enough of a framework for others to work with their own.
IMPORTANT NOTE:The DCs for Targets can be unreachably high without the expected untyped bonuses baked into the APs, such as the Historian of the Rebellion trait from Hell's Rebels or Aubrin's bonus in Ironfang. If you are not using such bonuses, or if the PCs miss too many of them, it is advised that you remove the additional '+1 per 4 levels' to the DCs.
New Trait:Leadership - This Target is led by a particularly competent leader. Choose an NPC in the area, or use an NPC of equal CR to the Target, to add one of their stats to one of the Target’s DCs. (While this allows for a much larger bonus than Defended, it also allows PCs to remove the individual in question to make the Target much easier to deal with.)
Ironfang Invasion Targets (Note:Spoilers rest beyond this point)
Book 1
Scarvinious' Camp:
Rank 4 Hard Target
Morale:96
Security:18 (Focus)
Loyalty:19 (+4 Bonus)
Secrecy:15
Positive Traits:Leadership(Scarvinious, Strength to Loyalty), Sole Target (3 actions), Final Assault
Negative Trait:Brazen
Scarvinious' camp is the first major hurdle for the PCs, and may well destroy them if they're not careful. For every 15 Morale the camp loses, remove one Bugbear or Scout to show the loss of personnel. Once the camp is below 36 Morale, remove Garvex the Dog and Kavu instead of a scout. Once the camp is destroyed, Scarvinious will set out to destroy the PCs with his Alchemist and any other remaining forces.
Phaendar is likely a tempting target, but it can be quite a slog to actually recover the base. In addition to that, once Phaendar is attacked directly, it activates two Hobgoblin Scout troops to focus on the Hemlock Army. Retaking Phaendar is a welcome boon to the populace however, and grants the army a +1 bonus to all future checks.
Hobgoblin Scouts are deadly effective, but prone to underestimating the disorganized attack force that is the Hemlock army. They prefer to attack teams to attacking the militia itself, and move on to attacking the militia only once all teams are disabled.
While the Militia rules outlined in Lands of Conflict and Hell’s Rebels are quite in-depth, there’s an obvious flaw with them; they don’t do anything. The most you’ll get out of your rebellion is a little gold and scouting allies, and a handful of random events. Securing caches are useless, restoring characters can be replaced by handing the party Cleric or Wizard a few scrolls at the same price, and activating refuges sounds nice, but it ultimately doesn’t matter. This addition to the Rebellion rules aims to fix that by allowing you to do what you would expect a rebellious force to do-take land back from an enemy, by hook or by crook, by adding a few more activities that revolve around Targets
Targets is a very broad term, chosen because of the use of Militia rules in both Hell’s Rebels and Ironfang, while also allowing a broad selection of opponents. A target can be an enemy troop, a jail you need to break an ally out of, an enemy organization, an entire town, or even an enemy fortress.
Note:This is an addition to the Militia rules found in Rules of Conflict. If you are only familiar with the Rebellion rules in Hell’s Rebels, they are very similar-Training is used in place of Supporters. Advisors, Outlaws, Revolutionaries, and Traders have been replaced with Intelligence, Espionage, Military, and Treasury respectively, and some actions have been assigned to different teams.
Building a Target:
Targets have Morale, which functions as their HP. They also have DCs for Secrecy, Security, and Loyalty. When building a Target, you choose one of these to be a Focused Check, and the other two to be Secondary checks, as well as its rank and whether they are a Soft, Medium, Hard, or Fortress target. When you attack a target, you choose a team to attack its Secrecy, Security, or Loyalty, and deal damage to the Morale equal to the check result multiplied by the team’s rank.
Soft Targets have Morale equal to Rank*4+16, Medium Targets have Morale equal to Rank*8+32, Hard Targets have Morale equal to Rank*12+48, and Reinforced targets have Morale equal to Rank*20+80. Finally, a target’s Focus DC is equal to 14+Rank, and its secondary DC is equal to 13+½ Rank, rounded down. At Rank 4 and every 4 ranks beyond that, they gain an additional +1 to both Focus and Secondary DCs.
It is recommended that there be as many Active Targets as the number of Actions that the Militia gets, not including its bonus action from a Strategist.
Targets also get a selection of traits-ideally, they have three positive traits and one negative trait from the following list.
Positive Traits:
Abductors - If a Militia has a Disabled Team when this Target uses Attack Militia or Attack Team, all Disabled Teams become Missing.
Active Defenses - A Militia attacking this Target loses 1d6 Training, regardless of success or failure.
Adaptable - This target can change what its Focus Check is with an action. If Espionage has not uncovered this trait, this is not known to the Militia.
Allied - When this target is activated, it activates two other Targets that also have Allied.
Aggressive - This Target gains one additional action every turn that must be used on Attack Militia or Attack Team.
Deadly - This Target inflicts additional loss of Training equal to its Rank with the Attack Militia action.
Deceptive - The DC to Gather Information on this target is increased by an amount equal to its Rank. On a failed check to Gather Information, this Target presents a false set of Traits, a lower Rank, and which stat is the Focus.
Defended - This Target chooses Loyalty, Security, or Secrecy, and gains a +2 bonus on that check. This can be taken multiple times.
Elusive - A successful Gather Information check against this Target’s Secrecy DC must be made before attacking it. This target can spend an action to force another Gather Information check to be made against its DC.
Final Assault - When this target loses all morale, it immediately forces an Invasion event against the Militia. This cannot be negated by Sabotage.
Gloryhound - When using the Attack Militia action against a Militia with a Notoriety of 50 or more, this Target inflicts additional Training loss equal to twice it’s rank.
Hardened - This target gains additional Morale as if they were two ranks higher.
Loyal - This target halves morale damage taken from attacking its Loyalty.
Recuperation - This target regains 10% of its Morale each turn.
Secure - This target halves morale damage taken from attacking its Security.
Secretive - This target halves morale damage taken from attacking its Secrecy.
Sole Target - When acting alone, this target can take multiple actions, as if were a Militia of equal rank.
Negative Traits:
Brazen - This target takes 50% more damage from attacking its Secrecy.
Fearful - After being attacked, this target takes one less action. (Minimum 0.)
Flimsy - This target takes additional damage to its morale equal to the Militia’s Rank.
Meek - This target’s DCs are lowered by 5 against a Militia that has a Notoriety of 50 or greater.
No Secrets - On a successful Gather Information check, this target reveals all Intel instead of only one piece.
Proud - This target’s DCs are lowered by 5 against a Militia that has a Notoriety of 49 or less.
Siege - This target can only take the Recover action.
Traitorous - This target takes 50% more damage from attacking its Loyalty.
Unprepared - All DCs to attack this target are lowered by 5.
Unprotected - This target takes 50% more damage from attacking its Security.
Defeating a Target:
Bringing a Target’s morale to 0 destroys the Target. To damage a Target’s morale, you must make a check against that target’s Loyalty, Secrecy, or Security. On a successful check, the Target loses Morale equal to the result of the check. On a failed check, the Militia instead loses 2d6 Training. On a natural 1, the team making the attack is Disabled. (Or in the case of Intelligence and Espionage teams, goes missing.)
When a Target is made known, PCs will often know nothing about it. A Gather Information check from an Intelligence Team must be made against the Target’s Secrecy DC to glean Intel. For every 5 points above the DC, the Intelligence team gains 1 additional piece of Intel. On a natural 20, the Intelligence Team recovers 1 additional piece of Intel. On a failed check, the Militia gains 1d6 Notoriety. On a Natural 1, the Intelligence Team goes Missing.
When gaining Intel, an Intelligence Team gains a single piece of Intelligence on the target. It will typically take 6 successful checks for an Intelligence Team to gain all possible information..
The Target’s Focus and Secondary checks.
One Positive or Negative Trait of the Target.
Target’s Rank, and whether the Target is Soft, Medium, Hard, or Reinforced, along with its current Morale.
An Intelligence Team is needed to attack a target’s Secrecy. If they succeed, they also gain one additional piece of intel on the target. If they have all Intel on a Target, they instead gain a bonus on Secrecy checks against that target equal to the Team’s Rank.
An Espionage Team is needed to attack a target’s Loyalty. If they succeed, they also lower the target’s DCs by an amount equal to their rank until the end of next week. This effect is cumulative, but only with multiple Espionage teams.
A Military Team is needed to attack a target’s Security. If they succeed, they deal additional damage equal to the Militia’s Rank.
A Treasury Team can attack Loyalty, Secrecy, and Security, but they must pay GP equal to the Militia’s Minimum Treasury in order to do so.
Once a Target is defeated, the party gains XP and GP as if they’d defeated an opponent of equal CR in combat. A Soft Target is considered CR -1, a Hard Target is considered CR +1, and a Reinforced Target is considered CR +2. At GM discretion, other gear may be included in the reward.
A target activates after being attacked, having an ally target attacked, or once a random or planned event activates them.
Target Actions:
Once Activated, a Target gets one action per turn. They get access to the following choices.[list]
Attack Militia - The Target forces the Militia to make a check against either its Loyalty, Security, or Secrecy DC. On a failed check, the Militia takes 2d6+Target’s Rank Training Damage. This can lower the Militia’s Rank. On a natural 1, the Militia takes twice as much Training Damage.
Attack Team - The Target forces the Militia to make a check. If the Target attacks an Espionage Team, they make a Loyalty Check against the Target’s DC. If the Target attacks an Intelligence Team, they make a Secrecy Check against the Target’s DC. If the Target attacks a Military Team, they make a Security check against the Target’s DC. If the Target attacks a Treasury Team, they make a check against the Target’s Secondary Check. If the check fails, the team is Disabled. On a natural 1, the Team goes Missing, and requires a Rescue Character action (Or PC intervention) to recover.
Elusive - Unique to Elusive Targets. Once a successful Gather Information check reveals their location, they can take an action to hide themselves again.
Ensure Event - The Target forces the Militia to make a check against either its Loyalty, Security, or Secrecy DC. On a failed check, an Event occurs, the Random Event table is rolled twice, and the Target chooses (What it perceives as) the worse result. On a natural 1, the Random Event becomes persistent if the Target desires.
Recover - The Target restores 10% of its Morale.
Troops - The Target forces the Militia to make a Security Check against its DC or else face an Invasion Event in addition to the other events this turn.
Modified Team Actions:
Espionage
Secure Cache - When using the Secure Cache action, the Espionage Team can choose to permanently lower a target’s Loyalty, Secrecy, or Security by an amount equal to its Rank for one week. This is cumulative. Hard and Reinforced Targets count as a Secure Location. On a natural 20, they lower all DCs by an amount equal to the Team’s rank. On a natural 1, the Team goes Missing.
Sabotage - On a successful check against a Target’s Secrecy, they can remove one positive Trait. On a natural 20, they can also impose a negative Trait. On a natural 1, the Team goes Missing, and requires a Rescue Character action (Or PC intervention) to recover.
Covert Action - Also applies the Team Leader’s Charisma bonus to damage against a Target’s Morale.
Intelligence
Knowledge Check - Does not take an action, but can only be used once per turn per team of Scholars. This can be used to gain Intel as well.
Restore Character - Can also be used to restore a Disabled Team without spending GP.
Military
Rescue Character - Is the only action that can be used to recover teams that go Missing from Targets. Rather than a DC 15 Security check, the Military Team must make a Security Check against the Target’s DC. However, they have 4 Turns to recover a Team rather than only 1.
Activate Refuge - When a Refuge is active, reduce Training Loss from the Attack Militia action by 1d6.
Strike Team - Can also be used to add the Manager’s Strength or Charisma score to damage dealt.
Manipulate Events - Can change a Target’s action to one of their choice with a successful Security check against the Target’s DC. This includes deciding if the Target attacks Security, Secrecy, or Loyalty, and what Team they attack with Attack Team. On a natural 20, they can force the Target to do nothing that week.
Treasury
Black Market - You can choose to make a DC 30 Secrecy Check when making a Black Market. If successful, the Black Market is instead equal to a Metropolis rather than a Small City.
Bribery - New action, unique to Fixers. When an enemy uses the Attack Team or Attack Militia action, Fixers can spend GP equal to the Target’s Rank x10, and make a Loyalty check against the Target’s DC to reroll the result of the check.
Gestapo rely on force in numbers, and the fact that they have few known bases. They excel in capturing forces that are already weakened so that they can extort information from them.
Military Base
Rank 6 Hard Target
Morale:120
Security DC:23
Secrecy/Loyalty DC:17
Positive Traits:Secure, Recuperation, Sole Target
Negative Trait:Brazen
A Military Base tends to have quite a bit of support behind it, and is difficult to assault directly. As they can always request more troops, Sabotage may be an ideal way to deal with one.
If there's interest, I'll expand this with recommended stats for Targets in Ironfang, mostly using locations and enemies seen in the Gazette. One of the first and biggest prizes, of course, should be retaking Phaendar.
So, I'm wanting to run a campaign that focuses on using Downtime. The only way of gathering cash is via the store the players run, as very, very few opponents will actually have a handy stash of loot for them to raid. If they're very lucky, there's going to be a human opponent with stuff, but even that's unlikely.
That said, the Downtime System seems...lacking in a number of ways, the most glaring of which is that it does not scale well. The second most glaring is that Magic is the only capital that seems worth investing in, and it's far and away the most effective currency.
With that in mind, I'd like those that have used the Downtime system in the past, or that think they can break the system I'm trying to use.
Tweaks to the entire system:
-Simulacrum does not exist in this world. Fabricate does, but only in the form of Wish and Lesser Wish.
-Diplomacy can get Influence or Labor, not all four types of capital.
-The only capital you can purchase with money is Goods. All others must be traded for.
-Magic cannot be used directly for crafting magic items. Instead, differing uses of it are tweaked.
-You are limited in space, due to building in a city. Until you have somehow proven yourself (IE, they level up to a certain point, trying to keep some semblance of WBL here) you do not have more than X amount of squares to build in. Build wisely.
-Prices of goods differ based on your Business Tier. Whether selling or buying, the price stays the same. (Yes, this breaks immersion slightly-but the truth of it is, something has to change with those prices, and I prefer to think of them getting better things as they become better businesspeople.)
Tier 1:Fewer than 100 income-producing rooms (Goal:Less than 6th level):
-Goods are 20 GP, Influence is 30 GP, Labor is 20 GP, Magic is 50 GP.
-You can spend 2x the typical Labor of a building to decrease build time to 75%.
-Magic points can only be spent for Spell Research, Lore research, replacing a familiar, and copying spells to a spellbook.
-You can only spend influence to build rooms that require influence, or to gather information. You are not yet notable enough to get bonuses on Charisma Checks.
-Goods can be converted into mundane items that cost the same as the GP price of the goods.
-You do not take penalties for having low capital.
-Goods are 40 GP, Influence is 60 GP, Labor is 40 GP, Magic is 75 GP.
-You can spend 2x the typical Labor of a building to decrease build time to 66%, rather than 75%.
-Magic points can now be spent to create scrolls and potions.
-Influence can now be spent to give up to a +5 circumstance bonus on charisma-based checks.
-Goods can now be converted into mundane or masterwork items that cost the same or less than the GP value of the goods that went into them.
-If any type of capital falls below 100 units, you take a -10 penalty to checks to generate that particular capital that week.
-If your Influence Capital goes above 1000, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus on all charisma-based checks.
-If your Magic capital goes above 1000, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus on all knowledge(Arcana) and spellcraft checks.
-If your Goods capital goes above 1000, your GP checks are multiplied by 2 rather than divided by 10.
-If your Labor capital goes above 1000, you reduce the amount of time required to build rooms by 2, to a minimum of 1/2 of a day. (0 days for rooms that started at 0.)
-Goods are 80 GP, Influence is 120 GP, labor is 80 GP, Magic is 100 GP.
-You can spend 3x the typical labor of a building to decrease build time to 33%.
-Magic points can now be spent to produce wands, minor wondrous items, and weapon/armor bonuses no more expensive than 9,000 GP. (This is to keep them from putting the biggest and best enchantments on their buddy's sword, and more so they can go 'Well, maybe we should have a Ghostbane Sword for emergencies, or I guess some [Creature]-bane arrows would be nice...)
-Influence can now give up to a +10 circumstance bonus on charisma-based checks.
-Goods can now be converted into mundane and masterwork items of the same price, and can be converted into minor wondrous items.
-If your capital for anything falls below 500, you lose an additional point of that capital every week until you recover, and you take a -20 to generate that particular kind of capital.
-If your influence capital goes above 5000, you gain an additional +1 circumstance bonus on all charisma-based checks, and barring special circumstances, people in the city start with an attitude of Friendly.
-If your Magic capital goes above 5000, you gain an additional +1 circumstance bonus on all Knowledge(Arcana) and Spellcraft checks, and can craft magical items in half the regular amount of time.
-If your Goods capital goes above 5000, your GP checks are multiplied by 10 rather than being divided by 10.
-If your Labor capital goes above 5000, you reduce the amount of time required to build a room by 4 days or hire a team by 2 days, to a minimum of 1/2 of a day. (0 days for things that started at 0.)
Tier 4:1001+ income-producing rooms/teams (Goal:15th level) (AKA, 'The Campaign isn't going much longer at this point, may as well let you guys have everything you want.'):
-Goods are 800 GP, Influence is 1200 GP, Labor is 800 GP, Magic is 1000 GP.
-Managers can be paid in any type of capital.
-You can spend 4x the typical labor of a building to decrease build time to 10%.
-Magic points can be spent to produce whatever you wish.
-Goods can be converted into magic items as well.
-You may have up to a +20 untyped bonus on Charisma checks by spending sufficient amounts of Influence.
-If your capital for any capital falls below 10000, you receive only tier 3 bonuses.
-If your Influence Capital goes above 25000, you gain an additional +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma-based checks, and barring circumstances, everyone in the city starts as Helpful.
-If your Goods Capital goes above 25000, your GP checks are multiplied by 1000 rather than being divided by 10.
-If your Labor Capital goes above 25000, you reduce the amount of time required to build a room or hire a team by 8 days, to a minimum of 1/4th of a day.
-If your Magic Capital goes above 25000, you may craft magic items for 1/4 of base price by spending magic instead of GP to craft them, so long as the magic capital stays above 25000 by the end of crafting.
As well as tweaking to the random events, since the numbers are going significantly higher than expected...:
Wherever it says 'Lose xdx points of Capital' replace that with 'xdx% of your capital, to a maximum that the building can generate in a week if it puts all resources towards that capital.'
Anywhere it says 'Gain xdx points of Capital' or 'Gain 1 point of Capital,' replace that with 'xdx%' or 'gain a 10% bonus on your next [Capital] roll.'
Anything that requires a DC <20 check is instead a DC (Character level+10) check.
Anything that requires a DC >20 check is instead a DC (Character level+25) check.
Anything that gives money becomes a percentage of WBL.
Anything that gives a flat x bonus on the next roll is instead +(2x)% to the next roll, rounded up.
'Fussy Neighbor' remodeling (House Event) becomes 'For every 10 points of influence you own.'
Taxes occur once every month. You are required to pay 1% of every building's value.
Random items become 'Roll on Wondrous Item Chart for a level-appropriate item. 10% chance it is cursed.'
It was quite an effort to overhaul the system to make it scale with level, and I'm sure that there's still some holes I've missed. Anyone care to take a shot at poking at those holes with a sharp, pointy stick?
