Skythen's page

You can do stealth in combat but it takes building for it to pull it off. Normally, no, you can't.

Per the skill, you can't stealth if being observed. If you don't make it in one move you're done being stealthy.

Example of the build?

I have read about stealth and combat and it seems a bit vague to me.

Define concealment? Edge of the room? etc..

If we are in combat in large room in the middle let's say. The rogue sneaks up behind the guy but doesn't make it there in one turn. Is he considered out of stealth? Also, if he DOES make it in one turn would he be out of stealth? Room well lit or a dark room variable..

I know he can move in and get flank, I am just saying in general for now.

Most rooms you fight in do not have much concealment.. just tables etc.

I do realize that stealth is not for combat. I just want the rules if you can post them and the interpretation of them.

1. A small familiar can flank, if it is in the right position, and it is considered armed (can use a melee attack).

2. You get the flank bonus regardless if someone is "paying attention" to it or not. You can't just say since you're not focusing on a flanker, that somehow that creature is no longer flanking.

3. Im getting confused on this next one... There is no definite facing in pathfinder, the phrase "behind someone" has no meaning.. The only way to flank any character is to have two allied creatures on opposite sides of it, as explained in the flanking diagram. There's no way to get flanking bonuses from "being behind someone". Furthermore, no, you can't get a flanking bonus if you are not attacking. I'm not sure how it would make any difference though. You can help to *provide* a flanking bonus for an ally though, even if you are not attacking. I'm not sure what you meant.

4. Again, there is no definite facing in pathfinder, a creature doesn't have to "turn" to attack. And yes, obliterating the familiar is a perfectly valid tactic in this situation. The familiar has half the HP *of a sorcerer* and so it is much easier to destroy than the half-orc, and will make the half-orcs attacks less likely to hit.

If you bring your familiar out you have to be prepared that it might die. Go ahead and use it to it's fullest potential.. but if your GM kills it, realize that that was the risk you took.

That being said. If you do try to use it in combat scenarios. What is the best way to keep it alive / buff it up. Or use it in other creative manners?

Thanks for the advice guys.

I believe this answers me thanks.

These are the pertinent parts of the flanking rule, from page 197 of Core:

Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus. Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can’t flank an opponent.

A Small creature has a reach of more than 0 feet. So, so long as your familiar is actually threatening the defender, you get the bonus. However, I don't think you can be behind a defender without his knowing it and get a flanking bonus. This is because flanking works by causing a defender to fight on two fronts, both in front of, and behind himself.

So I think your opponent needs to know your familiar is behind him, and he needs to see the familiar as a threat. The easiest way to achieve this, is to have your familiar attack. I think your GM is anchoring his argument to an interpretation of "threatening" as being synonymous with "attacking," and he may have some wiggle room there.

As to the issue of your familiar irking him, well that seems silly. If your character has gained the familiar via the rules, and the familiar is built fairly and by the rules, the GM should not have a problem with it.

I have read that even while being invisible that flanking bonus is applied. It is simply the "ability" to threaten the square that causes this. Maybe I am wrong on that? Perhaps by the familiar being there and the assumption that he has a 360 degree view of the field means that he knows he can't step back or risk losing his footing etc.. I believe in the rules it says you do not even have to attack.

Below is threatened squares defined:

Threatened Squares
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.

So my thought is, even if the familiar is there and choosing not to attack it is still a threat. And logically an intelligent creature is going to try and kill his biggest threat or step away from the flank. Not turn and attack a relatively harmless beast.

No offence but that GM sounds like a self-centered child with power issues...

In this regard he is being that way a bit. He is being a pretty good DM. Problem is that this has him on an extreme defensive for some reason. And it turns me off to playing the game…

I am a tough person to play with because I cause quite a bit of theatrics with my bard and overall play style. Do not get me wrong. But this is not about me arguing for the sake of arguing. It honestly is not even my character it is my friends that plays with us. I just found this unfair and I want to make sure I am not in the wrong in the rules before I say anything further.

I have a DM that says if you bring your familiar out I will kill it.

That being said, I am leaning toward no longer playing the game. It is creating an argument and a situation where I feel like this is becoming house rules. I agree with some rules being bent but this is outright telling you that you cannot use your abilities that you have.

His reasoning behind this is because it is a sorcerer and it is not a battle familiar and he thinks the character should not be able to use the familiar to its fullest potential in this regard. So it seems he wants to target it dead unfairly.

Here is the argument we are having and I would like a specific answer if possible.

With a "small" familiar you can get a flank bonus if it has the ability to threaten another square.

He says if it does not have the creatures "attention" as in not attacking then you may not gain the flank bonus.

Is this true?

Another question is if you or your familiar stealth behind someone with weapons "drawn" and are directly behind someone can you get a flank bonus when not attacking?

Next he says if your familiar is behind the target I am going to turn and attack that. This makes no sense to me.. If it is behind you only providing a flank and the real threat is the half orc smashing your face in are you seriously going to turn and randomly attack a small familiar? I find this extremely unlikely.

I am not trying to be a rule enforcer but this is silly..

I have a DM that says if you bring your familiar out I will kill it.

That being said, I am leaning toward no longer playing the game. It is creating an argument and a situation where I feel like this is becoming house rules. I agree with some rules being bent but this is outright telling you that you cannot use your abilities that you have.

His reasoning behind this is because it is a sorcerer and it is not a battle familiar and he thinks the character should not be able to use the familiar to its fullest potential in this regard. So it seems he wants to target it dead unfairly.

Here is the argument we are having and I would like a specific answer if possible.

With a "small" familiar you can get a flank bonus if it has the ability to threaten another square.

He says if it does not have the creatures "attention" as in not attacking then you may not gain the flank bonus.

Is this true?

Another question is if you or your familiar stealth behind someone with weapons "drawn" and are directly behind someone can you get a flank bonus when not attacking?

Next he says if your familiar is behind the target I am going to turn and attack that. This makes no sense to me.. If it is behind you only providing a flank and the real threat is the half orc smashing your face in are you seriously going to turn and randomly attack a small familiar? I find this extremely unlikely.