Friendly Fighter

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4 posts. Organized Play character for Morgan Kauffman.


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Dark Archive

Thanks for starting the thread!

re: Drinking from the Chalice:

Spoiler:
I agree, it sucks to be ranged and drink from the chalice without knowing you're gonna take a hit to your attack rolls for the rest of the scenario, but... the thing is, the characters who drink are the characters who get the re-roll boon. If you nudge them to avoid drinking, your gunslinger might (or might not, depends on the player) be a bit put out with you once the adventure's over and they find out that, because they didn't drink, they didn't get the unique shiny.

I'm not sure that there's a "good" way for DMs to deal with this one. From a player's perspective, drinking gives a one-scenario-long penalty but rewards them with a single-use, possibly life-saving boon; not drinking keeps them from feeling gimped during the scenario, but they may get upset at missing out on the boon once the game's over.

From a GM-ethics perspective, my perspective is that giving out meta-knowledge about boons is something you should avoid if at all possible, at least when it impacts characters' decisions during play. I've done it when it affects which character a player brings to the game, but I'm hesitant to do it in a way that changes how they play their character. *shrug* Still, unless there're specific rules in organized play as to what you absolutely can and can't disclose, I'd say that this one's up to the individual DM and how well they know their players.

I like your idea of letting them Detect Magic/Spellcraft/K(Arcana) the water to get a hint:

"Strong divination magic, with just a hint of transmutation running through it."
"The divination is a combination of communication and vision spells, all of which seem to have a distinct aspect of temporal distortion to them. It seems similar to the descriptions you've heard of other examples of cyclopean oracular magic."
"The transmutation is somewhat reminiscent of low-level transmutation curses, but it's too weak to tell exactly what kind of effect it has." (or, alternately, be a bit more specific and say that it seems like it would mess with the drinker's vision)

That should be enough to confirm that 1) this is in fact the magic water they've been sent to take a drink of, and 2) they might not want to all drink at once.

Which brings up another point - you can always suggest that one person drink first, just to see what happens, then nudge a melee or caster to take the first drink and let the ranged characters make their own decision once the first volunteer's eyes go wonky.

TLDR: *shrug* I see a lot of possibility for individual table variation here, not sure that there's a "right" answer.

Things I noted while going through and prepping:

Spoiler:

The Headhunters have Favored Enemy: Human. Don't forget to add the +2 to hit and damage where applicable!

There's potentially a buttload of cure light/moderate potions dropping in this scenario, especially in tier 4-5; every headhunter has some, and the battlefield where they meet the grippli has a handful as well. Grabbing some physical tokens (i.e. poker chips or similar) to represent them might be handy for the players to keep track of them all.

Because I always have trouble remembering Fast Healing, make a reminder for yourself on the Ngoga to keep healing them on their turn.

If you have a rogue in your party, don't forget the all-around vision that Karan gets blessed with if the PCs take the time to clean up area B3, it makes him impossible to flank.

Overall, I'm looking forward to this, the combats should be relatively straightforward but the setting and RP possibilities are really cool.

Dark Archive

Derp, forgot the other bit. You'd also need to include BigNorseWolf's suggested replacement for the 12th level power, "the occultist instead gains conceal spell as a feat without meeting the prerequisites."

(I've never played higher than 5-9 tier, so I defer to others' judgement on what's needed to balance higher levels of play.)

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I’d like to throw my hat in here as being another player with a Silksworn character concept that I was really excited about, who felt a little bit crushed when I found out they were illegal in PFS. Having gone through this thread, I’d like to humbly suggest the following be added to the archetype for its use in organized play:

Physical Frailty
“A Silksworn gains 1 fewer hit point for every Occultist level they gain, and the bonus they gain to their Fortitude save is 2 lower than normal for an Occultist. If the Silksworn wears any armor or shield, they are unable to use any Occultist spells, spell-like abilities, or activated supernatural abilities for as long as they wear that item.”

Not sure that it would solve all of the balance issues noted in this thread, but IMO it would significantly reduce the archetype’s usefulness as a 1- or 2-level dip (one less hp/level, no immediate boost to Fort, only non-armored characters would be able to use the SLAs and spells), and would significantly reduce their capacity to be tweaked towards an armored gish or archer combatant, making it much more of a dedicated spellcasting archetype while also keeping the d6 casters from getting jealous.

I’m not a game designer, nor am I anything close to an experienced min-maxer or possessing full system-mastery, but… I really want to play this archetype. I’d take being more fragile, if that would solve whatever the dev's have an issue with.

(As an aside, big kudos to everyone in this thread for being so civil and constructive, and to Isabelle for making such a compelling archetype!)

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Background:
I’ve already made and played with a Battle Host bonded to a suit of full plate, designed in part on the (apparently mistaken) reading of Panoply Bond that the bonded item is immune to damage until you die. Before coming across this thread, and the official interpretation of the archetype’s rules, I’ve already had one instance of a DM throwing an ooze at me that I purposefully took aggro from, secure in the (incorrect) knowledge that my armor was effectively immune to its acid. The revelation that a Black Pudding or Rust Monster is still capable of reducing my character to a quarter-rate fighter without any reliable spells or abilities is… somewhat unnerving. Hence, my need to know whether there’s something I can plan on saving up for to patch the sudden unforeseen vulnerability.

Question: Is it possible to spend 5 prestige and retrain the Panoply Bond class feature to apply it to another item? Ultimate Campaigns says the following:

Quote:

Retraining


Class Feature
Many choices you make about your class features can be retrained. It takes 5 days to retrain one class feature. …

Retraining a class feature means you lose the old class feature and gain a new one that you could otherwise qualify for at that point in your level advancement. For example, if you want to retrain your paladin’s fatigued mercy (which she gained at 3rd level), you can replace it only with another mercy from the 3rd-level list. If at 6th level you learned the sickened mercy (which is on the 3rd-level list), you may replace it with a mercy from the 3rd- or 6th-level list (because you are replacing a 6th- level mercy slot which you spent on a 3rd-level mercy).

The class feature you wish to retrain can’t be one that you used as a prerequisite for a feat, class feature, archetype, prestige class, or other ability. You must retrain those elements separately before you can retrain this class feature.

In addition, it lists the following option for Wizards retraining:

Quote:
Wizard: Retrain your arcane bond by replacing one bonded item with another, replacing your bonded item with a familiar, or replacing your familiar with a bonded item.

The Guide to Organized Play says that you pay 1 prestige for every day of retraining, in addition to the gold cost, to account for the fact that organized play has no way of tracking what you do “off camera.” Ergo, switching from a bonded suit of steel full plate to a bonded suit of adamantine full plate should be possible, for the gold cost of the item and retraining, as well as 5 PP.

If I were a DM in a home-brew campaign, and a Battle Host player asked to upgrade their bonded armor/weapon, I’d send them on a side-quest to find a fabled arcane blacksmith who can infuse steel with the essence of rarer materials. Find him, do him a favor (rescue his dumb-ass son, collect rare materials, whatever) to butter him up, and then bring him the weight of the weapon/armor in adamantine (priced to make it equivalent to buying the item in that material) - BOOM, that bonded item is now effectively made of adamantine.

Obviously, this kind of side-questing is impossible in organized play. However, given the existence of the retraining rules, which are specifically stated in the guide to organized play to equate prestige with doing stuff outside of organized play scenarios… is the equivalent possible? Because being stuck with an entirely-destructible masterwork steel/wooden armor/weapon for 12+ levels as your defining - and only - class feature is… um. Not cool.

Follow-up question: If retraining your Panoply Bond to another item is possible… do you have to pay the base cost of the item, in addition to the cost of whatever special materials you’re using? Obviously, if you use the retraining rules, you’re not going to get a full refund of any enchantments you put on the item, but what about the base cost of the item itself? For example:

Full Plate - 1,500gp
+1 armor enhancement - 1,000gp
Adamantine heavy armor - 15,000gp

If my bonded item is a +1 Full Plate, and I want to retrain/upgrade to +1 Adamantine full plate, am I paying:

A) 17,500gp (all three)
B) 16,000gp (just the adamantine & +1 enhancement)
C) 15,000 (just the adamantine, which - I think - should only be the case in the non-PFS side-quest example above)

I would argue that since you get the base masterwork full plate for free at first level, you should be able to get the base full plate of an upgrade for free as well (total cost of 16,000gp, in this example). But, I can also see a case to be made that you’re acquiring a suit of full plate and then switching your bond to it, so you have to eat the cost of everything, and your only cost reduction in the transaction is that you get 1325gp (50% refund of 2650gp) back for selling the newly-unbonded suit of armor.

Looking forward to hearing various opinions on this.