ShhIAmBatman's page

I've been running a party of three who have just entered the 4th floor of the dungeon (at Level 4). No free archetype, no extra level. All I've done balancing wise is reduce the incoming Damage and HP of each enemy by 25%, and I typically only give non-boss enemies two actions instead of three. This has kept combat fluid, the party is dealing and taking damage on par with my five person Age of Ashes group, and it feels pretty consistent.

Something to consider, if you don't want to give out a free level or a free archetype.

In second edition PCs getting the dying condition shouldn't be rare, but PC death should be. So I have to ask what is killing them. Are PCs not aiding their fallen comrades? Are they not using hero points? Are they not healing up between fights? Are you having foes always attack downed PCs to finish them off? Any of these could contribute to the deadliness of the game.

The PC's do aid each other when downed, but without resorting to a full night's rest after every combat encounter, they're walking into the next room of a dungeon balancing some sort of wounded condition. Even with a Paladin and a Cleric in the party (and me allowing them to lay on hands/heal to scum back to full health without a full night's rest), the next fight still detonates them. I don't have anything but named enemies attacking downed PCs and that has yet to happen.

When they drop to dying, they'll typically get to dying 2 (by attempting to save themselves their first turn after 0 HP) before they offload their hero points to get back to wounded 2 if they fail. Then again, using a charau-ka butcher to triple attack at a +20 against level 7 PCs earlier in the campaign pretty much 100%ed a PC.

Tactically - the Paladin soaks up damage by wading into the middle, while the wizard and cleric both free cast as best they can (though the Cleric acts as our second tank). The rogue does buckets of damage, but always manages to be between the boss and a bad place, and take a licking for it. The bard has negligible combat influence, though numerically his inspiring performances do account for a lot of the party damage.

It feels like I critically hit the party way too often, and they don't have the HP pools to withstand it (the bard who died and became a Sorc has 86 max HP, a chimera crit hits for about half that if I roll low, with two more attack actions to go).

It sounds like the not many other parties are encountering this level of difficulty (only a handful of posts have been made around this), so I'm curious as too if it's really just players not accounting for defensive tactics enough.

Alright, let's see. Let me open with: I don't know HeroLab and haven't used it before. So that's where I'm coming from. But this...

ShhIAmBatman wrote:

We're running the game via HeroLab, so I assumed every level-up would be increasing their AC accordingly (increasing proficiency in an armor class increases AC, but just leveling up from 7-8 doesn't add +1 to your AC, at least according to HeroLab).

...definitely doesn't seem right.

PCs at level 8 should have their ACs hovering somewhere around 25 to 27. If HeroLab isn't giving you a bonus at every level for AC, it sounds like something is wrong. Proficiency is level + (trained/expert/master/legendary) and applies to most everything in the game.

ShhIAmBatman wrote:

For the DC, my Cleric rolled a Daze spell that the Chimera cleared with a natural 2. In fairness, my Wizard landed a Phantasmal Killer the very same combat, so my issue with the Saving throws is less pronounced then my party-wide AC being very easy to hit.

I'm more confused now! Will is the chimera's weakest saving throw, with only a +14. That means that the cleric's spell DC is... 15 or lower? Spell DC should be calculated as 10+proficiency+key (in this case Wisdom). If that Cleric has an 18 Wisdom, it looks like...

DC 10 + prof (8 level + 4 expert) + 4 Wisdom for a total of DC 26. While it's still not incredibly difficult for the chimera to save, it's definitely a sight better! I would take a look at your cleric's sheet and make sure he has things calculated properly.

I have a feeling that if AC feels like it's too low, then maybe there's a miscommunication somewhere. Whether it's HeroLab or not, not adding in your level to proficiency is tantamount to suicide. Check the numbers on it. They're not too hard to calculate without the program.

My party all have AC's hovering around 25 to 27. Every enemy that isn't a low level mob has a +20 to hit, so 15's and higher crit. In Fortress of Sorrow, that amounts to a whole lot of critical hits on the party, which is chunking them down unbelievably fast. I understand the premise of an end-book dungeon, but this feels prohibitively difficult.

From what you're saying though, beyond ensuring that my Cleric is checking his stats to make sure his Daze DC isn't as low as he thought; it sounds like my party AC is right in line with where it should be for this part of the adventure. Which means this difficulty level is baked-in statistically, and I may have to pull some GM discretion to not completely TPK them in a dungeon and lose their interest.

I appreciate all the help!

This sounds more like a general question than an AoA one, but what is your party comp like? How do they utilize their "third action"? What spells do they buff and debuff with?

It seems that many players coming from PF1 to PF2 are having a lot of trouble adjusting to the system. I'm surprised that people went down to Malarunk because at my table (and from what I've been hearing), he was a cakewalk compared to the barghest.

ShhIAmBatman wrote:

Quick Edit: I'm seeing posts from the Play test that suggest you should add +1 to your AC per character level, I'm imagining that is a relic of the playtest and not applicable to AoA. Clarity there would help too!

This should be rolled into proficiency. If you're skipping that, then yeah, everyone has WAY lower AC than they should.

ShhIAmBatman wrote:

Are my players under-levelled gear/armor wise, and we don't understand the rune system? (Chimera rolled a natural 6 and was able to blast away my rogue / rolled a natural 2 and passed a save DC), or do I need to executively take 10% off of every enemy's stat block to make it feel fun.

Hold on, let me see here... Casters should be level 8 at this point and have expert spellcasting. That puts their DCs at 25-26 (in case your team isn't really optimizing). A chimera's best save is it's Fortitude at +18. It should definitely fail on a 2.

But if you take away level from proficiency... That DC falls to 17 - 18, well within bounds for the chimera to make all of his saves. Are you guys not adding level to proficiency? If that's the case, how has anyone made it this far?

Hi Ruzza!

My party definitely struggled worse with the Barghest than Malarunk, that was more dice telling the story. I currently have a Monk, Sorc, Wizard, Cleric and Rogue (who died so we're getting a Fighter now). The monk is new (he was the paladin), and the Sorc is new (he was a bard). As far as class set ups and combat, they're certainly tactically sound, though the Wizard who has been responsible for the lion share of the damage is a very conservative player, and is rarely in position to be damaged (which precludes him from using more actions offensively or turns not spent re-positioning).

We're running the game via HeroLab, so I assumed every level-up would be increasing their AC accordingly (increasing proficiency in an armor class increases AC, but just leveling up from 7-8 doesn't add +1 to your AC, at least according to HeroLab). Is that an incorrect system?

For the DC, my Cleric rolled a Daze spell that the Chimera cleared with a natural 2. In fairness, my Wizard landed a Phantasmal Killer the very same combat, so my issue with the Saving throws is less pronounced then my party-wide AC being very easy to hit.

So I guess the crux of the question - my party is incredibly easy to hit, and we're running the game via HeroLab. Is that platform not assigning AC when it should - or is there another element that we're missing?

Hi All,

I've read through the first 2 GM reference threads, and have my party of 5 relatively experienced players ready to fight Belmazog, and we keep coming up against this same challenge (that I've seen referenced here a few times).

The game is too, damned, hard. I've killed 2 players against Malarunk, and now 3 in the Fortress of Sorrow. I've tried pulling punches here and there, having enemies act a bit out of character to not TPK the guys (we play a more character-driven adventure, so killing their characters is a big deal, my Dwarven Paladin of Torag almost quit the table).

Are my players under-levelled gear/armor wise, and we don't understand the rune system? (Chimera rolled a natural 6 and was able to blast away my rogue / rolled a natural 2 and passed a save DC), or do I need to executively take 10% off of every enemy's stat block to make it feel fun.

I'm loving AoA some far, it's allowed me to pull some story-telling tricks to keep my party interested, and the core premise of Breachill being a Utopia-ish town.. but strangely unnatural has my party very excited, and my Starfinder guy squeals whenever we find an Aiudara (he thinks we're going to Castrovel in this AP).

Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated, thank you all!

Quick Edit: I'm seeing posts from the Play test that suggest you should add +1 to your AC per character level, I'm imagining that is a relic of the playtest and not applicable to AoA. Clarity there would help too!

Perhaps had I done a little better homework, I would've known that! Thanks Joana!

As title reads - I can access Tyrant's Grasp book 5, no access to Hellknight Hill!

Order 7991346 for reference.

Thank you for any help! :)

Batman