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The Path of the Wilds playtest has been updated to Version 1.1. This features a sizable number of changes to the “elementer” (previously elementalist) and invoker, and some minor updates for Warden.

The tl;dr of the changes is:

-Elementalist has been renamed to Elementer
-Elementer no longer loses all of its energy when it leaves aegis, but now can't re-enter for a full turn as a trade-off.
-Elementer gets spell twists earlier and gets more of them. Some of their other abilities were shuffled around to make sure there aren’t any dead levels.
-Lesser affinity powers have been rebalanced so that Air isn’t the de-facto best choice
-The Blast spell twist is a bit less of a trap option, getting a 50% power increase and a range increase
-Invoker now has a d10 hit dice and full BAB progression
-The spirit companion can now use its own set of magic items, and has higher HP and damage than before
-The Vile Spores spirit sucks a bit less than before
-Warden can now heal itself with Remedy as a swift action

You can download the updated playtest (and the update document) from all of its normal locations, as listed in the top post of the thread.

Let me know what you think of the changes!


(Previous Thread Here)

With the end of the Kickstarter, I wanted to start a fresh thread for the Path of the Wilds playtest. Unfortunately, we did not reach our funding goal. Despite that, I have no desire to give up on the book and fully intend to see it finished. So, let's continue on with the playtest!

The playtest document includes:

-The elementalist base class, a spellsword that has mastered the forces of air, earth, fire, and water. They can absorb latent energy from their spells to form a powerful planar aegis, letting them switch between spell focus and combat focus at a moment’s notice. They can also convert elemental spells into simplified “twists” for more utility, or combine their spell slots together to reach greater heights of arcane potency.
-The invoker base class, a mystical warrior that bonds with the spirits of nature. Unlike most “pet” classes like the druid or summoner, the roles for the invoker and his spirit companion are reversed: the invoker players the front-line combatant while his companion casts spells to support him from afar. He can also invoke over a dozen lesser spirits like Tempests Herald and Oncoming Storm and Depths Beckon With Silent Murmurs to grant him unparalleled adaptability in his approach to combat.
-The warden base class, a verdant protector of nature. The warden is the first line of defense for both nature and his companions, gaining a slew of defensive and support oriented abilities. He creates magical wards that shield allies from harm, and can improve them with natural facets like summer’s heat or river of life to shield against specific threats. His remedy feature grants him a slow-but-steady healing stream, while his mastery of nature’s close-kept secrets gives him new methods of support and further control over his environment.

You can find copies of the playtest from the following places:

-Google Drive
-Paizo Store
-DriveThruRPG
-The Ascension Games Store

I'll also be keeping a list of major updates for convenient reading, found in this Google Doc. I'll make a new post in this thread when major updates are made as notification, but the actual change log will be kept in one place.

Feel free to make suggestions in this thread, or by leaving comments on the public google document.

Thanks for your support and your interest in Path of the Wilds!

Christopher Moore
Ascension Games, LLC


The Kickstarter for Path of the Wilds is ending soon! CLICK HERE to support the project!

Call up those high-level clerics, because we're in need of a miracle! The project still has a long way to go, and we need your help now more than ever. With your generosity and the aid of your tabletop group, we can make this project come to life.

You might be thinking, "Well, with how much is left before reaching the goal, should I even back the project?" To which I say, Kickstarter projects only charge you if the goal is met. If you are interested in Path of the Wilds, even if you think the project might not make its funding goal, please consider backing! If everyone that was hesitant to back the project for fear of the goal not being met actually did back the project, we'd hit our funding goal in no time at all. Every bit helps!

There's a playtest document you can read on Google Docs, or you can download directly from DriveThruRPG, Paizo.com, or the Ascension Games store if you'd like to look at the content before backing.

If you missed any of our updates, you can check them out on the Ascension Games website:


Thank you for your continued support!
Ascension Games, LLC


Time for our final content preview for Path of the Wilds! Today we look at the new Animist Barbarian, a totem-summoning warrior that supports allies. Check it out on the Ascension Games website.


Let's take a look at the last chapter of Path of the Wilds: archetypes and class options! Give it a read on the Ascension Games website.


Our third spell preview showcases some new plant-based spells! You can find them on the Ascension Games website.


Today we continue our spell previews with some new utility spells! Check them out on the Ascension Games website.


Today we preview some of the new spells in Path of the Wilds! Check them out on the Ascension Games website.


As requested over on Giant in the Playground, there's now a public Google Drive document for the playtest. Feel free to leave comments there!


Time for another update! Today we take a look at some of the new magic items in Path of the Wilds, focusing in particular on weapons and armor. Check it out on the Ascension Games website.


RicoDetroit wrote:
This is the most joyous news I’ve seen in a long, long time! Path of Shadows and Path of Iron are two of my favorite third-party books ever, so I immediately backed this Kickstarter.

Glad to hear it! I'll be looking forward to your feedback.


Add-ons are now available! In addition to getting Path of the Wilds, you can get any of our earlier products at a heavy discount when you support the Kickstarter campaign! Check out the new add-ons here.


We're off to a good start on the Kickstarter, with all of our Pioneer tier rewards being taken! If you can, be sure to like/share us on our Facebook page or retweet us on the Ascension Games twitter to spread the news about the Kickstarter; every bit is greatly appreciated!

Today is also the first in a series of previews for Path of the Wilds, starting with new feats! Check it out on the Ascension Games website.


Taggerung559 wrote:
Chassis seems fine, though 4+int skill ranks on an int based prepared spellcaster that doesn't seem to have much of a thematic skill focus seemed a tiny bit odd to me.

I originally had it at 2+INT, but I try to give 4+INT as the baseline for classes. 2+INT only really feels sufficient on INT-based full casters like Witch and Wizard to me. But if it's a common complaint I'll reduce the count.

Taggerung559 wrote:
Aegis is interesting...changing it so only half of the remaining pool points are lost on early exit might be worth considering

I have considered this, but I want to see how it tests out with the all-or-nothing approach first.

Taggerung559 wrote:
What's the reasoning behind having conversion only fill the pool at half rate?...The only time I could see this maybe being used if if your pool is drained and you absolutely need to activate aegis NOW (for something like a fly or swim speed maybe), but that's a pretty niche situation.

That is the idea, yes. It's also to encourage gaining points through actually casting spells and interacting with that half of your class rather than just burning away the slots as a resource pool.

Taggerung559 wrote:

Affinity powers:

For the lessers, air seemed easily the best as far as synergies go... Cold's bonus damage is very slow to do much, fire's is okay but the class doesn't have proficiency in any high crit range weapons, earth's varies from useless to solid depending on the enemy, but getting 20-40 ft. range on a melee weapon will pretty much always be amazing.

Making air a reach bonus is one way to do it, and seems like a decent change. For fire, it might not have 18-20 range weapons but it does have a good number of 19-20s, along with a few x3 weapons (which increases the burst damage). Earth's is sort of the all-around baseline since it grants weapon damage instead of elemental damage. Cold is...probably too slow, yeah. Trying to balance damage over time in Pathfinder is rough.

Taggerung559 wrote:
For master affinities, not having any ability to exclude allies from the effects could be problematic with how large some of them can get. Granted, at that level your party could easily have tools to deal with the effects but it would still be nice to not have to work around it.

I don't want to give ally immunity to the effects, certainly; the master affinity powers are supposed to be dangerous. The more likely solution might be similar to what I've done before with classes like nightblade and the new warden and let you reduce the radius of the effect in increments of 5 feet.

Taggerung559 wrote:
Ash: I feel it might be worth altering this one to have the blind last a round/level (as glitterdust does) rather than a flat 1d4 rounds. Or maybe round/2 levels.

Part of this was to avoid letting you use a 1st level slot for a 2 minute blind. If it lasted as long as glitterdust it'd need to grant a new save every round, which I wanted to avoid.

Taggerung559 wrote:
Blast: This is definitely going to need a buff... it definitely needs the ability to create more projectiles at higher levels (such as an extra one for every 2 boosts)

Probably the best solution. Depending on scaling it might need capping on how many blasts you can fire at one target (maybe 3?).

Taggerung559 wrote:
Warp: I feel this could do to scale better...

Part of the scaling is letting it affect higher-level spells in the first place. I'm not sure about granting a much more significant damage boost (between potency and this twist that's already +2 per die, which adds up pretty fast for AoEs), but as with all suggestions I'll take a look at the numbers.


The Playtest is now available on the Paizo store! Follow this link for the download page.


Ascension Games is back, with a playtest for our newly-announced product, Path of the Wilds! This product launches alongside our Kickstarter, which runs until November 15th, 2019.

Feel free to share your thoughts and feedback here, or join us over at the Kickstarter and discussion thread over in the Third-Party forums.


After a long hiatus, Ascension Games is back, with our next product in the “Path” series, Path of the Wilds!

As with the rest of the Path series, Path of the Wilds focuses on a specific area of magic, in this case, nature. Harnessing elemental spells, plants, animals, weather, terrain, you name it. Spells that chain foes with living storms, erode away artifice, and conjure toxic blooms are just a sampling of what's in store for Path of the Wilds. And just like with Path of Shadows and Path of Iron, this book will cover all aspects of Pathfinder. Archetypes, class features, feats, magic items, you name it: we want to make sure there’s plenty of options for any master of the wilds.

Here's an overview of what you can expect in Path of the Wilds:

  • -The elementalist base class, a spellsword that has mastered the forces of air, earth, fire, and water. They can absorb latent energy from their spells to form a powerful planar aegis, letting them switch between spell focus and combat focus at a moment’s notice. They can also convert elemental spells into simplified “twists” for more utility, or combine their spell slots together to reach greater heights of arcane potency.
  • -The invoker base class, a mystical warrior that bonds with the spirits of nature. Unlike most “pet” classes like the druid or summoner, the roles for the invoker and his spirit companion are reversed: the invoker players the front-line combatant while his companion casts spells to support him from afar. He can also invoke over a dozen lesser spirits like Tempests Herald and Oncoming Storm and Depths Beckon With Silent Murmurs to grant him unparalleled adaptability in his approach to combat.
  • -The warden base class, a verdant protector of nature. The warden is the first line of defense for both nature and his companions, gaining a slew of defensive and support oriented abilities. He creates magical wards that shield allies from harm, and can improve them with natural facets like summer’s heat or river of life to shield against specific threats. His remedy feature grants him a slow-but-steady healing stream, while his mastery of nature’s close-kept secrets gives him new methods of support and further control over his enviroment.
  • -New archetypes and options for existing classes. Play archetypes like the Animist barbarian to summon ancestral totems, or an Elemental Savant sorcerer to learn a wide selection of elemental spells from other classes. Options include new kineticist talents and a new selection of six “primal spirits” for the medium class.
  • -Spells for casters that want to evoke nature’s benevolence - or its fury. Turn into a being of light with the solar body spell, or tap into your wild side with the primal fury spell. Gather foes together with a watery vortex, then poison them with a toxic nettle burst.
  • -Feats that let you truly master the wilds. Use wild empathy to impart magical suggestion effects on creatures with the Mystic Empathy feat, and track down impossible quarries with the Skilled Tracker feat. Call out your foe’s weaknesses with the Spotter’s Call and take them down with a single Mountain Strike. There of course will be feats to support the new classes, as well, such as Latent Remedy to let wardens grant contingent healing effects and Aegis Strike to give elementalists and extra arcane edge while using their aegis form.
  • -A plethora of new magic items and equipment properties. Always have the right element at hand with the cycling weapon property, and entangle foes that attack you with miring armor. Fly upon the wind with the stormlord’s raiment and freeze foes solid with the rimeflower bow.

Kickstarter and Playtest for Path of the Wilds

As with Path of Iron, we want to ensure the best quality for the Path series. Ascension Games always uses commissioned art in our books, and we take a painstakingly long time to ensure the rules text is clear, balanced, and - most importantly - fun. In order to make this book come to life, we’re excited to announce that we are launching a Kickstarter for the book today! The campaign will run from October 16th until November 15th. You can find the Kickstarter here.

To go along with the Kickstarter, we are also simultaneously releasing a playtest for the three new classes (elementalist, invoker, and warden). These classes have many atypical mechanics, so thorough testing is a must. You can download the playtest from:

You can use this thread to discuss the playtest document, or send us feedback directly on the Ascension Games website.

Thank you for your support, and I hope you are as excited as I am for Path of the Wilds!

Christopher Moore,
Ascension Games, LLC


Hmm...

1. Crossblooded Sorcerer - Has a lot of flavor while also allowing for many mechanical concepts that otherwise would be impossible.

2. Arcane Duelist Bard - I've always preferred my spell-sword/battlemage type characters to be more durable than agile, so getting better combat training and armor is a big plus. Although, were I to write it I'd give heavier armor from the get-go; it's hard to build a Strength-Focused Arcane Duelist when you don't even get medium armor until 10th level.

3. Ecclesitheurge Cleric - For those that want to go all-in on spellcasting as a cleric, rather than the typical armored-priest concept. Plus I'm a big fan of the extra domain versatility it provides.

4. (Grenadier / Gun Chymist) Alchemist - The idea of using alchemical compounds and explosives effectively with your ranged weapons is definitely a concept I want to keep around.

5. Totem Warrior Barbarian - Ya know originally I was putting this as a joke, but from a conceptual standpoint I want this to work. Totem rage powers are a great thematic idea for Barbarian, and having an archetype that gets to be extra-focused on a totem line would be good.


Well if you wanted to use Cornugon Smash, you need Power Attack first...which you can't do because you don't have a Strength of 13.

I see you have a Favored Class bonus of 1/2 level to Intimidate, but that favored bonus doesn't exist (unless you're using some other homebrew).

You already have Dark Confinement to keep people inside dark areas, so you're good on that front.

I see you're level 5 but haven't listed your spells per day for 2nd level spells.

What advice are you asking for specifically? You can check out this general guide for some pointers but we would need more information on what you're trying to accomplish as a Bloodied Chain nightblade.


Guy St-Amant wrote:
Seginus wrote:
Guy St-Amant wrote:
Seginus wrote:
Guy St-Amant wrote:

Sorry for the Necro...

** spoiler omitted **

Normally, regaining a single shadow surge is a standard action, whereas gaining back more than 1 point takes a full-round action. The Dark Resurgence art allows you to, once per day, gain back surges as a free action instead.
Shouldn't it be level 9 then? since Twin Surges come into play at level 8.
A free action is still faster than the Standard Action for 1 point, so it is still useful when you only have 1 surge (though it obviously becomes better the more you can have at once).
But you still need a surge to activate the ability to start with.

Dark Resurgence does not require a shadow surge to use; you can use it when totally empty.

If a nightblade art does not explicitly state that it takes a shadow surge in its description, then it does not require having one to use. There's actually quite a few nightblade arts that do not require the use of a shadow surge (Combat/Casting/Flexible art, Disguising Veil, Void Sight, etc.).


Guy St-Amant wrote:
Seginus wrote:
Guy St-Amant wrote:

Sorry for the Necro...

** spoiler omitted **

Normally, regaining a single shadow surge is a standard action, whereas gaining back more than 1 point takes a full-round action. The Dark Resurgence art allows you to, once per day, gain back surges as a free action instead.
Shouldn't it be level 9 then? since Twin Surges come into play at level 8.

A free action is still faster than the Standard Action for 1 point, so it is still useful when you only have 1 surge (though it obviously becomes better the more you can have at once).


Guy St-Amant wrote:

Sorry for the Necro...

** spoiler omitted **

Normally, regaining a single shadow surge is a standard action, whereas gaining back more than 1 point takes a full-round action. The Dark Resurgence art allows you to, once per day, gain back surges as a free action instead.


Path of Shadows is the Deal of the Day for TODAY ONLY over on DriveThruRPG! Get the PDF for 50% off and the print version for 33% off!

Click here to check it out!


It is powerful, yes. And no, you get no saving throw. There's a number of reasons I feel it is balanced:

  • On most creatures the effects are similar to casting deeper darkness and silence in the same area. Compared to these, however, void field has a much shorter duration and radius than deeper darkness, and a shorter range than silence.
  • Unlike both silence and deeper darkness, void field is always a stationary effect. The creatures inside are still capable of moving at half speed (or full speed, with a DC 10 acrobatics check), so getting out of the 20-foot radius area isn't very hard (especially since the other creatures can't make attacks of opportunity against them).
  • As it is magical darkness, the nightblade's allies are going to have a tough time seeing into it without specific abilities prepared and/or resource expenditure, meaning actually harming the people inside the field is difficult.

There are plenty of cheaper spells that already can be used to shutdown most of a caster's abilities, like black tentacles or the aforementioned silence, and those don't prevent your allies from still targeting the now-helpless mage with attacks.


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Part II of the Path of Shadows 5e playtest has arrived! This part of the playtest details class options for existing classes in D&D 5e. The options are:

  • Primal Path - Path of the Ghost Walker
  • Bard College - College of Secrecy
  • Divine Domain - Darkness
  • Druid Circle - Circle of the Stars
  • Martial Archetype - Hexblade
  • Sacred Oath - Oath of Radiance
  • Ranger Archetype - Unseen Warden
  • Roguish Archetype - Shadow Caller
  • Otherworldly Patron - Dream Eater

You can download the playtest document here.


SmiloDan wrote:

I think he wants to use shadow magic as opposed to illusions. I think. (Emails can be oddly vague sometimes....)

Shadow magic spells pretty much all fall in the illusion school.

Now, if you're talking like Tome of Magic's Shadow magic that had the whole mystery/path thing, then that's another beast entirely and would be a bit much for a wizard specialization.


Lorathorn wrote:
I'm impressed, both by the thoroughness of the GitP forums and of your commitment to change and understand the class and its archetypes.

Thanks. I know that I have less experience with 5e over Pathfinder, and the feedback has been valuable in learning certain aspects of 5e design.

SmiloDan wrote:
My friend who was going to be trying out the nightblade now wants to play a Sage Cleric of Knowledge 1/Wizard X of shadow stuff. We might make a custom Arcane School for him based on shadow stuff, your nightblade and some of its abilities, the new spells you've designed, and the old 3.5 Tome of Magic's shadowcaster class.

I'll be honest, I don't see any reason to make a new Wizard archetype for shadow magic when Illusion School exists. Illusory self already does a similar use to the "flicker" that you want, and Illusory Reality is a fantastic ability and the best I could ask for as a shadow wizard.


An update to the playtest document is now available, addressing many issues brought up from the previous version.

A summary of the changes, as well as things I would like feedback on the most, are listed below:

Changes

Nightblade Core Features

  • The nightblade now has Extra Attack at 5th level, instead of being a feature of Darkened Fortress
  • Maximum shadow surges is increased to four by max level, but the random recharge is removed. You can use an action to refill the whole pool, rather than just 1 point.
  • The class now gets Darkvision at 3rd level, instead of the ability to see in magical darkness as it originally did.
  • Path features are now granted at levels 1/3/7/11/15 as opposed to the original 1/6/11/15. The number of abilities has not been changed (they used to get two features at level 1, now it's only one).
  • Pierce the Veils no longer grants immunity to blindness, instead giving the class the ability to see in magical darkness (as the original Nighteye ability).
  • Umbral Spell's extra uses are now earned slightly earlier
  • The class only gets 6 arts, instead of 8, to cut down on ability total. This should have minimum impact on the class's overall performance.

Bloodied Chain
  • Eyes of Terror no longer has a penalty for use on higher-level opponents.
  • Chains of Despair now can be attached when hitting an opponent with a weapon attack
  • At 7th level, you can now use Eyes of Terror to affect all targets bound by Chains of Despair simultaneously (plus your normal target with Eyes of Terror), giving it some AoE fear options
  • The 11th level feature lets you deal 1d6 psychic damage per hit on Chain of Despair targets; coupled with Extra Attack this should boost its damage from it's original version considerably, while not having it overshadow damage-oriented paths like Darkened Fortress and Ravaging Void.
  • Umbral Shackles radius has been increased to 15 feet.

Darkened Fortress
  • Guardian shroud is now a reaction, instead of a bonus action, to make it's use more natural
  • The 3rd level feature, Dark Armament, lets you burn spell slots to enhance the damage of weapons you wield for 1 hour. Between this ability and the Umbral Assault nightblade art, Darkened Fortress's damage should be in much better shape than before.
  • 11th level feature now upgrades previous features, letting guardian shroud be created at a distance and allowing Dark Armament to refresh shadow surges on critical hit.
  • Phantom Strike now has a maximum range of 30 feet and can't be used with reactions.

Eternal Night
  • Grim Harvest has been replaced with Death Knell. It provided a very short buff or temporary hit points whenever you kill a foe, but is otherwise at-will.
  • Corruption is now a feature that lets you burn spell slots to create short-range necrotic AoEs when you use the Attack action.
  • 11th level gains a feature that lets you create new shapes with Corruption (30 ft. line or 15 ft. cone) and makes enemies hit take penalties to their next save against a necromancy spell you cast.
  • Shadow of Death has been reworked. It instead reduces foes' resistance to necrotic damage while also making them poisoned, and any creature that dies near you triggers Death Knell.

Ravaging Void
  • Ravaging Void's damage has been further increased by allowing you to cast a cantrip then make a weapon attack as a bonus action; combined with adding Charisma to cantrip damage, this should let it keep up better damage-wise with other damage oriented classes.
  • The 7th level feature lets you now use Umbral Spell to cast high-level evocation spells, essentially turning Ravaging Void into a psuedo-9th-level caster.
  • Warding Shadows is replaced with Elemental Empowerment. You choose an element each day, gaining resistance to that element and dealing bonus damage with spells of that element. Warding Shadows is now a nightblade art that lets you use shadow surges to share your resistance from this feature.

Twilight Veil
  • Beguiler's Influence no longer imparts disadvantage on saves versus illusion and enchantment spells (as illusion spells make up too much of the nightblade's spell, including shadow spells). It instead causes charmed creature to have disadvantage on attack rolls versus your allies, providing a simple-yet-effective debuff.
  • Illusory Arcana is now at 11th level and lets you grab a 6/7/8/9 level illusion or enchantment spell from other spell lists, turning it into a pseudo-9th-level caster like Ravaging Void.
  • Distorting Shadows is now Distorted Veil, letting you use Entrancing Veil on two creatures at once. At any point, you can use your action to cause charmed creatures to be randomly knocked prone, blinded, incapacitated, or stunned. Unlike the original Distorting Shadows, it's usuable at-will until the creature makes its saving throw.

Nightblade Arts
  • More arts have been added, with each Nightblade Path now having four arts exclusive to it.
  • Several utility-oriented arts, such as Disguising Veil, now reduce your maximum shadow surges while active. This makes their resource cost actually matter when used in a non-combat scenario, preventing you from using lots of utility effects while still refilling your pool before a fight.

Spells
  • Shadow spells like shadow conjuration and shadow evocation now cast from a shared "Shadow spell list". This normalized the spells' effects across all classes and prevents the spells from becoming increasingly-powerful as more 5e material is released.
  • Spells that erroneously mentioned Reflex saves now call for Dexterity saves. Oops. :smalltongue:

Things To Look At

  • Does the damage feel more up to par and balanced versus other classes of a given role? Ideally, Darkened Fortress and Ravaging Void should be the highest damage, followed by Bloodied Chains/Eternal Night, with Twilight Veil as the lowest damage.
  • Bloodied Chains has received some big improvements to its main CC ability, Eyes of Terror, with it now having no penalty on higher level targets and eventually scaling into AoE with the Thrive on Fear feature. Does the crowd control feel weak, too powerful, or in a good spot?
  • Dark Armament from the Path of the Darkened Fortress is an odd one. The damage bonus is on par with hunter's mark or hex at early game and can surpass the damage with higher slots, but requires no concentration. On the flip side, it can't be stacked with other weapon spells like magic weapon, and only lasts an hour regardless of slot used while hex and hunter's mark can be made to last all day. I want to avoid using concentration for the effect (as concentration for your damage source lends itself to playing at range, where it's easier to maintain concentration), but want it to stay balanced within that limitation. Is that goal accomplished, or do changes need to be made to keep it balanced against other classes?
  • Eternal Night now has a bit more staying power with Death Knell being at-will, but the actual effects of the ability aside from the temporary hit points are very short-lived, lasting only for a round. Would you see yourself using Death Knell for the damage/attack roll bonuses? If not, what would you do to make them more appealing while still being balanced as an at-will feature?
  • Ravaging Void is arguably the least changed of the five paths, generally just getting a bit more damage to boost it to other classes' output. Does using Umbral Spell to cast high-level evocations help it keep up with other damage-focused casting classes, or does the lack of variety in the Shadow Spell list stifle it?
  • Twilight Veil, like Ravaging Void, now has a way to access higher-level spells to make it relevant as a caster in the late game. Does it accomplish that goal? Also, does its CC ability sufficiently make up for the lack of damage that the other paths bring?
  • The Shadow spell list is an attempt to compromise between shadow magic's original effects (casting various spells of a given school) while trying to reign it back in and prevent it from growing stronger as more material is added. Does it accomplish this goal? If not, what should be done to keep the flavor of those spells while not causing them to be too weak or too powerful?


SmiloDan wrote:

One of my players might play a Nightblade! :-D

But probably not til the fall, because Real Life happens.

Neat! I'd advise waiting until the updated version...

The lovely folks over at Giant In the Playground have been giving lots of feedback (read: ripping the class to shreds) and I agree with most of their points. Expect a lot of changes pretty soon.


Aleron wrote:
I loved the pathfinder version, though I have been playing extensively with 5e for some time now and it's becoming my preferred system at this point. I'm excited to see this and have high hopes considering how well the pathfinder version turned out!

I hope it comes out well, too! While I still think I prefer Pathfinder as my main platform, 5e has a lot of good things going for it and I certainly enjoy it.

Aleron wrote:
I've given it an initial read through and my first thought is compared to most classes it is getting a lot each level. Between class features, arts, and spells it has a lot going for it. Got the same reaction from another DM I showed it to. Obviously not sure if it is a balance concern, haven't had a chance to test yet but it is an initial impression.

This is definitely something I'm keeping an eye on. While power-wise I don't think it's too much, the volume of abilities may be too high. I might end up reducing the number of arts you get, or when you get them to make the table more streamlined.

I could also turn some of the core features into nightblade arts, but I'd rather avoid that.

Aleron wrote:
Another part that stood out to us is getting the path at 1st level. Very few classes do that and while I can see why it was done, few outside of full casters tend to do this.

I don't think this is really a balance concern. Yeah, the only classes that get their options at 1st level are Cleric, Sorcerer, and Warlock, but on the flip side Paladin is the only one to get its level 20 capstone tied to its class choice and that doesn't strike me as something to worry about, either.

Aleron wrote:
Worth noting I'm doing most of my comparison against a paladin or ranger since that is probably closer than rogue considering the 5th level spellcasting.

It's sort of a half-way point between Paladin/Ranger and Warlock, design wise. Nightblade arts are pretty similar to Eldritch Invocations, but require the shadow surge resource, and they have a few similar abilities.

And, to be honest, when doing balance work I didn't take ranger into too much consideration; I find it lacking in many areas and it would make for a poor baseline balance-wise.


SmiloDan wrote:
A couple times you refer to Reflex saves instead of Dexterity saves.

Whoops! I guess old habits die hard. I'll be sure to look out for similar conversion errors.

SmiloDan wrote:
I like your explanation of the use of Charisma saves. I like how the saves are more difficult, but the effects are less severe than Wisdom saves (restrained vs. paralyzed).

I thought that made it fair, and makes shadow magic in general more appealing. You have a higher chance of it "sticking", but overall the effects you get are weaker.

SmiloDan wrote:
For many of your shadow creatures, you give them the same Saving Throws and Skill Proficiencies as the caster. This could lead to some odd situations were brutish beasts are bad at Strength checks and saves, but really good at Arcana or Persuasion. Is this intentional?

It was really just to keep the rules simplified, rather than going through each and saying "this version is proficient with x, y, and z, while this is proficient with a, b, and c." If it concern is shared with more people I'll consider changing it to be more specialized.

Lorathorn wrote:
Say... would you like a 5th edition conversion expert to consult? In either case, I am more than happy to check out the playtest and offer my insight. This has me all kinds of excited!

Absolutely! I have far less experience with 5e than with Pathfinder, and while I like to think I have a pretty good eye for balance and design, more experienced players pitching in will always be helpful.


Ascension Games is branching out to 5th edition, starting with a conversion of Path of Shadows!

Path of Shadows - For D&D 5e adds the wonders shadow magic to 5th Edition. It has a new class - the nightblade - which focuses on using shadow magic to its fullest, and will have spells, feats, and magic items for just about everyone.

To make sure the balance is on-point, I've made a playtest document featuring the new nightblade class and several spells. Many of the spells are from the original Path of Shadows, such as banish light and deathwings, but classic spells like shadow conjuration and darkbolt are also included.

Any feedback is appreciated! I don't have as much experience playing 5th edition as I do Pathfinder, so I want to make sure the balance is kept while still keeping the ideas of shadow magic intact. Suggestions for improving the quality, as well as spells and abilities you'd like to see added, are always welcome.

You can download the playtest here.

Thanks!

Chris Moore
Ascension Games, LLC


Thanks for the review! While I don't entirely agree with all of your counts of "OP" (I do admit that demolitionist is a bit over-tuned for breaking stuff), I am glad you found the book overall enjoyable.


Ssalarn wrote:
Seginus wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
Is there / will there be a print option for this book?
There is a Print-On-Demand version on DriveThruRPG; at the moment I don't have the resources for a more typical printing run.
I'm going to DriveThruRPG and I'm only seeing the .pdf option, no POD.

I actually just updated the printer files for a 2nd printing, so at the moment the POD is unavailable. It should be back in a week or two.


Ssalarn wrote:
Is there / will there be a print option for this book?

There is a Print-On-Demand version on DriveThruRPG; at the moment I don't have the resources for a more typical printing run.


Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Oh, I never meant print run stuff. I completely get that there can be a very cost-prohibitive aspect to that. I only meant pdfs.

If the product is in both PDF and Print formats, you only update if you're updating both. No exceptions. You don't want mismatched information and text between the two.

It's an unfortunate part of the industry that there are typos that are hard/expensive to fix...I'm looking at doing an update to Path of Iron in the next few days to fix typos and a handful of balance issues, and it's a GIANT pain to do. I'm hoping to not have to fix it again after this point, but who knows.

Editing will always be a problem whenever words are involved, regardless of how many editors you run it by, and with how small the tabletop industry is it's going to be even more pronounced.


Since you mentioned the nightblade, you should take a look at the illusory strike spell.


TheDisgaean wrote:
Sort of feels like Arcana Defender (weapon & shield), Arcane Marauder (two-handed), Eldritch Eye (ranged), and Mystic Dervish (dual wield) magus archetypes should be able to use their magus level as their fighter level when qualifying for combat feats related to their combat style ala the skirnir.

Maybe. I feel the archetypes are in a good place balance-wise, and they still get the normal fighter training that a magus gets. Your feedback is welcome though, and if the lots of players make similar suggestions I'll be sure to look into updating it in the future.


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Everything I write is under the OGL, and in the next few weeks Path of Iron will end up on the d20pfsrd anyway, so use what you want. The only thing I would definitely ask permission for ahead of time (for any publisher) is if you want to use artwork from a book; some artists only want their pieces used in the work it was commissioned for.


Pretty sure you are able to hold your breath, as normal. The spell doesn't force the air out; if it did, it wouldn't say that you "are without air", it would state that you "begin suffocating", as those are two separate states in the environmental rules for suffocation:

Core RuleBook wrote:

A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. If a character takes a standard or full-round action, the remaining duration that the character can hold her breath is reduced by 1 round. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The check must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.

When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.


Nightblade by Ascension Games is missing from the list.


Lorathorn wrote:

Oh, and I hate to be a burden, but I have a question for those people for whom I've done reviews... do you want me to post to D20pfsrd? Some have note said, while others have asked and I have forgotten. I got some time in which to finally put reviews from Paizo to OBS, but I want to make sure to get those to D20PFSRD for those who want it.

While I would just do it automatically, D20pfsrd is a pain due to their word limit, and I usually just put a link in the review to somewhere else (sometimes my blog).

Please let me know, and I will be more than happy to take that extra effort.

It certainly helps. At least in my case, the Open Gaming Store is one of my most consistent sites when it comes to monthly sales. Just giving the star review plus a link to the full review is certainly fine, but do know that 95% of people aren't going to check the link for a review. Including a brief synopsis (a few sentences) goes a long way.


To echo everyone else here, a big thank you to everyone that devotes time to reviewing 3PP material. I may be a relative newcomer to this scene, but it's so reassuring to see an interconnected community where discussion and opinions are shared openly between designers and customers alike. You don't get that in most other design fields, and it shows. :)

To that end, if anyone would like to take a shot at my latest book, Path of Iron, that just came out, I am dying to hear some feedback. It's a pretty dense book rules-wise, and knowing what worked and what didn't is vital for going forward since at the moment I'm still in that "oh man what if everything is awful" stage when it comes to writing Pathfinder things.


That's strange. I just checked it myself and I can open it fine.

What version of Adobe Reader are you using? Make sure it's up to date.


Only a few days left until the sale is over! The sale ends this Friday (December 4th), so if you or a friend have been looking to try out Path of Shadows, now is a perfect time to do so!


Hey there!

Ascension Games may not have as many titles to its name as most of the other 3PP, but that doesn't mean sales can't happen! To both celebrate the release of our newest title, Path of Iron, and to provide a deal for holiday shoppers, you can get our first book Path of Shadows for 20% off!

You can find both of these products on any of these stores:


fafnir_bane wrote:
I'm not sure if you plan on keeping the 3 class format, but I think using a "martial, caster, and skilled" format would be nice. That way you can approach the theme from 3 different angles.

I'm planning on doing three classes each in the next two path books, though I don't want to necessarily limit myself to "martial/skilled/caster". Trying to force a class concept into an unfitting style just for the sake of diversifying focus like that would probably not end well.


christos gurd wrote:
So there are two forgeborn bloodlines in this book, 1 for sorcerer and 1 for ranger?

Bloodrager and sorcerer, yes. They thematically have similar ideas and have a bit of ability overlap (such as resistance to critical hits and sneak attacks, and some skill with object destruction) but have a good number of differences in their use.


This thread is for feedback, discussion, and any questions concerning Path of Iron by Ascension Games.

What I'm looking for:

  • What aspects you enjoyed, and why
  • Parts you did not like, and why
  • Any errors you find
  • Rules clarifications you feel are necessary
  • How the "Path" series of books can be improved going forward


Now available! Path of Iron is the second book of the "Path" series by Ascension Games, focused on construct-, metal-, and weapon-based options. With archetypes, spells, feats, magic items, new classes, and more, there's something for every player at your table!

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