Sceptenar's page

Sceptenar wrote:

Yes, but conservative or traditional relative to what?

Well by default, I would say to what most readers of the material would know from living in their society. If you want verge from that default assumption, then it should be stated.

Yes, that is the default assumption. Then why bring up the argument about gay paladins at all?

That is why the whole gay paladin comes across to alot of people as either pandering or as a joke. Now if it was expanded on that in that particular faith, all (or almost all) paladins are in fact homosexual, that it is the tradition for that faith, that would be something. But as it is, it seems, at least superficially, to be a jab in the eye of folks who are themselves more conservative or traditionalist (i.e. "Lawful" in the D&D sense).

A gay paladin in Varisia is hardly pandering or a joke since he fits in with the region he lives in. Golarion is a fictional world and is different from Earth in many ways, it has its own logic and its own consistency, I don't see why you brough it up at all unless you believe it was a concious effort by Paizo to introduce gay characters simply for the sake of having them. In other words, an agenda by Paizo...

I, for one, think this thread is done. If folks wish to continue the real world arguments about homosexuality I'd recommend you do what one poster has already suggested and start a...

Sorry Josh, I posted before I read your post. And I agree, I think this thread has completely gone beyond what I intended to begin with. I won't object to it being closed, with more than 500 posts in three days I think the air has been suitably cleared.

I would argue that Lawful could be thought of as synonymous with "Traditional" or "Conservative" (not the political view necessarily).

Yes, but conservative or traditional relative to what? Conservativism is simply the value system that change should be carefully considered rather than embraced for its own sake (which is why I consider myself a conservative despite having started this thread to begin with). In the oppressive nation of Cheliax conservative has a completely different meaning than in the more liberal Varisia, relative to that a paladin could be both gay and conservative in Varisia.

And now for something slightly different...

I don't really get the idea that Paizo has been tacking on homosexuals as part of some agenda, every single one of the homosexual elements thus far have been incredibly low key, so much in fact that you could easily miss most of them (like I did). Someone said that they play D&D to get away from real-life issues like homosexuality, but I don't get that argument either. I don't see that Paizo has been "exploring the issue" at all, they have simply added some gay characters to the background without ever raising the question of morality, I don't see anyone having a problem with Pathfinder having black characters so why should it matter that there are gay characters? It simply doesn't become an issue until you choose to make it one.

And finally...

Leave the gay iconic(s) alone, I'm sure they will come out in the open when they feel ready themselves ;)

Wow! 400 posts in a few days! I'm glad the topic is still hot, so I can come add my two cents....

Less than 48 hours actually...

We'll continue to have LGB characters appear now and then in Pathfinder...

Don't forget that its actually LGBT. I happen to know a few people in the last category and I think they deserve a mention as well.

It does provide some interesting possibilities after all, for example from history you have the Roman Emperor Elagabalus who was very likely transgender and not to mention the nature goddess Cybele who had a group of male followers who castrated themselves and assumed female identities as a tribute to their god.

In less than twenty four hours this thread has become the third most replied to on the General Discussion board of Pathfinder (along with having its own commentary thread), knocking off discussions about fourth edition among other things. I remember someone (you know who you are) saying that "no one wants to see that", that is apparently not true. Homosexuality is a very big issue, this is not at all what I expected when I first started this thread.

However It has derailed quite a bit from my intention, I never intended for this to become a discussion regarding real life morality in any way. But since it has been brought up I think the South Park episode "Death Camp of Tolerance" made a good point when it comes to this subject, tolerating something is not the same as accepting it. You don't have to and shouldn't expect to like everything that comes up in a Pathfinder module or campaign...

Further down the spiral we go. Somebody should apologize to the OP for the complete derail of his topic.

I'd second this. This thread has turned into a disaster. The OP has not had his question answered at all.

79 posts in less than twelve hours, to think that I was afraid that no one would reply...

In regards to the other posters:

I did not notice the line about the paladin of Abadar in Sandpoint, thanks for pointing that out. But they are really background characters, I would like to see someone a little more important "play for the home team" so to speak.

Sexuality is such an important part of human personality that it almost has to be adressed on some level to create a believeable character, and the role playing and history opportunities it presents are too great to be ignored.

But since men have had their time in the sun that only leaves the in-betweeners. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Pathfinder to turn into a sex game of any sort, but I do feel that the world needs these kinds of characters to be believable. Considering that 1 in 10,000 men and 1 in 30,000 women (an estimate by the Amsterdam Gender Dysphoria Clinic) seek sexual reassignment there should be at least one in a large city in D&D and several in a metropolis. It may not be for everyone, but I think this kind of background is interesting, both from a role playing and immersion perspective.

Maybe i am just homophobic. Not trying to offend anyone , that is just how i feel.

Funny, you told people to be open minded about psionics, yet you can't take your own advice when it comes to flavor that is barely a sentence in a characters description?

First I want to say that I honestly appreciate the inclusion of homosexual characters in Pathfinder, Queen Ileosa and Sabina for example, as most RPGs seem to ignore this group completely. However it seems to me that Paizo has fallen into the trap of only making female gay characters. What I would like to see are some gay male characters and transsexuals in Golarion, the women have had their fun, let the boys and anyone in between in on it as well!

Also, I would like to see some information on how these groups are generally treated in the various societies on Golarion (most of what I've seen up til now seems to be quite progressive, but I doubt that is true for the entire world).