Sarzael's page

I don't have any plan, and if I did it'd be a GM one and up to me to decide! Besides, if I wanted a cheap army I'd take a level in Witch and seduce some Icy Hags.
Just genuinely curious what everyone thinks of the idea.

Now, the Summoned Creature is real while it is summoned, right? It can do everything a normal Creature of its kind can except use expensive spells or summon. While the Creature may just be something drawn from the Astral Plane or the Akashic Records or wherever, there's nothing to indicate that it isn't a functional being while it does exist. What is your thought process behind them not being "Real enough"?

There's an Arcanist exploit, Spell Tinkerer, that can extend the duration of magical effects by 50%. I think it should work on that produced by magical items, too. Whether that helps or not is arguable, though!

Sarzael wrote:

(Though they may).

This is the crux of it. It makes them very vulnerable (almost nascent) in some ways, until they manage to "become" a "real" creature once again. The fact that they have the ability to generate biological processes suggests that this interpretation could be used across the board.

But for outsiders (unlike humanoids) it must be very intentional.

That's an interesting interpretation. Though, since an outsider is (in many cases) the crystallization of a soul, to put it that way, what does it mean for them to become a "real" creature? Did you draw a piece of the Hearth (Positive Energy Plane) in its creation (summoning)? Or is it something else entirely?

That's an interesting way to go about it, though bear in mind- Outsiders don't need to breathe, drink or eat (Though they may).

I'm kind of inclined to say no.

AFAIK, summoned creatures can't be milked of venom (or milk, for that matter), for instance, nor do any conditions they suffer while visiting the material plane (such as being poisoned or energy drained or diseased or cursed or hit point damage) seem to affect them if they are resummoned a few rounds later (the Eidolon being a fine example, as the Summoner class would suck if the Eidolon retained any disease, poison, curse, ability drain, negative energy levels, etc. inflicted during previous visits! 'Hey, we fought a wight, and now my defining class ability is permanently weaker than it was!'), so I'd say no to pregnancy (or parasitic infestation or gaining the ghoul or vampire templates or whatever).

While there don't seem to be any hard and fast rules, I think of summoned creatures (as opposed to *called* creatures) as being like the fake bodies created by astral projectors. If they get messed up or killed or even buffed or enhanced, those changes don't carry over to the original creature (assuming there even is an original creature, and the summoned creature isn't just a temporary manifestation created off of a template and cease to exist the moment the spell ends...).

By the same logic, a summoned creature wouldn't be able to impregnate anyone either. Woo hoo! Safe sex, summoner style!

Ah, but can't they? A summoned spider has venom just like a real spider. They poison your enemies after all. Is there anything stopping you from milking said spider? It has the same abilities, after all. It seems to me that the main reason such thing is not done usually is the duration, as it's not very profitable to gather venom if it will just disappear half a minute later.

However- A level 20 Occultist, an Antipaladin, or to a lesser (ironically) extent a Summoner can circumvent this as their Summoned Creatures are of permanent duration. If you command a Succubus to grant you a profane gift, this profane gift lasts until the Succubus is dismissed, violently or otherwise, right? But if the Succubus is never banished, you'd have it permanently. Similarly, an eidolon will remain diseased or otherwise hurt until it is dismissed. If they weren't dismissed at all, they'd have to recover naturally, right?

Of course, I simply don't think "You can't because the rules don't say you can" adds much. We already know that the rules don't say you can. There wouldn't be a reason to ask this if they did. I don't think anyone is going to try to accomplish any of this in a game (At least not because of this thread!) and it would be up to their GM to decide if they did.

Edit: That said, keep it civil please! I do not agree with what he said and expressed why, but let's not get caught in being aggressive towards one another.

I'm about to reveal the limit of my physics to everyone that knows this stuff, but there's a major objection to the idea that information (matter) is eliminated when it hits a black hole; meanwhile black holes create radiation, which, eventually, causes the 'hole to evaporate.

Though I know I'm missing something, it always seems bizarre to me that black holes "couldn't" be, you know, eating the (anti-)matter, and spitting it back out as radiation. The thing is, most of our stuff is guesswork beyond the singularity-point Schwarzschild radius, so... it seems reasonable to me. I'm probably missing something pretty basic, though.

The thing is, those radiation particles are results of particle-antiparticle pairs appearing right next to event horizon, antiparticle sinking into black hole and particle "boosting away" from it. So it is not radiation from black hole itself and it cannot carry any information about anything within gravitational radius of a black hole.