SPCDRI's page

I find the fighter comparisons amusing. The fighter is leaps and bounds more competent than a rogue. I have to grab one feat (intimidating prowess) to have a noticeable out of combat presence. With the rogue, I have to build my entire character around combat to even be noticeable.

Does the fighter still have problems? Yes. Are they rogue level problems? Not a chance in hell.

The Fighter may not be the strongest thing to do as a martial/combatant and lacks a lot in versatility but they at least interact competently in a fight. Rogues do not interact meaningfully in far too many combats. Sneak Attack gimps the class to pieces. The fool's gold promise of "truckloads of damage" from mid to high level play is silly. They expect a CR 12 monster to have an AC of about 25 and be approaching 200 hit points. The 3/4 BAB guy with no inherent boosts to accuracy will be dealing an additional 6d6 damage. That is not a truck load! 50 percent of the time that is less than an additional 21 damage! Where is the ¥$&@ing truckload that I was promised?

I think rogues should be more accurate when sneak attacking and Sneak attack dice should
Interact with criticals. What if Sneak Attack was +1/+4 damage?

I am surprised by the amount of love Sorcerers got. Extra spells known as racial bonuses,
Casting off Intelligence or Wisdom, strong and fun bloodlines, good traits and equipment.

Sorcerers can be BEASTS in Casterfinder. I mean PathCaster.

I find it oddly amusing that the ones that "hate" the Fighter are the same ones trying to improve him.

It has been markedly inferior as a class for more than 10 years now.

Playing a straight up Summoner could be stronger than playing a Synthesist. The real problem with Synthesists is that they show up a
martial combatant. This is why people go insane over things like Wild Shape and Polymorph, too. Because don't you get it man, you're the Summoner, you're not supposed to show up the Fighter or Monk or Rogue or Cavalier or something. You're Supposed To (tm) summon things.

The original You're Not Supposed To Do That in Dungeons and Dragons to me seems to be from FrankTheTrollman and it became a well known archetype in its own right: Cleric...ARCHERS. What? The Fighter and The Ranger are the Archers. Clerics aren't Supposed To Do That (tm).
Dat Niche Protection.

The Fighter will spend all his gold on his own magic items. While the Ranger has to equip his Companion too

How did you make a ranger's buffed Animal Companion a negative for the class?

That is like saying "The Fighter can fight all day but the Ranger will eventually run out of spells." Oh wait. People do say that. Like having access to spells in this system is BAD when it is obviously the bee's knees.

Fighters brag about NOT HAVING resource pools. Think how screwed up that is for a moment.

It needn't be underwater. It could just be a fight in a swamp.
Swampy terrain fights SUCK.

4 squares of movement, you can't Tumble, the aboleth has cover. It is 200 feet away and you are fighting aboleth illusions as he hits you with DC 22 Will saves or be Dominated (Jesus!) uggh.
Just uggh.

BogBoleths can be rough.

They are not simple. Barbarians are simple. They are not elegant. Paladins are elegant. They've been a gimp class since 3.0 Dungeons and Dragons. Their Pathfinderization is notably inferior to the Pathfinderization of Paladins, Rangers and Barbarians.

Ah, the Ol' "If You Want A Fighter To Not Be Bad At Fighting You're a Power-Gamer!" thing. I guess you don't know that people who decry things like Fighter's lack of interesting abilities and versatility are actually FANS of this class. I would like for this class to not be garbage mechanically. I would like for most martial feats to not be garbage with luridly high pre-requisites.

So now that they we are "back on track" so to speak, the Ranger is a better damage soak and tank than the Fighter and to cap it all off, can buff and heal himself and others? Ooh. Talk about gimmick infringement!

Barkskin and other things even threaten the Fighter AC niche.

Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization are trap feats.
Incorporate it into Weapon Training, please.
The sky will not fall if a 4th level Fighter is another
+1/+2 with his Falchion. It really won't.

Let them pick a Good Save.

Let the Lorewarden with Fighter abilities be the template.

Realize that separating Improved like Trip feats into multiple
feats is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord.

Go back to Power Attack the way it used to be, no caps.

Lower some of these pre-requisties, FFS.
Why do fighters have to work harder than casters for their feats?
Dazing Spell, pre-requisite being the strongest class in the game.

Greater TWF...

HEAD ASPLODES. Greater TWF isn't even any good!

SPCDRI wrote:

I think the Succubus thing is pretty cheesy, but whatever.

It is actually fairly tame. He could be using the level 6 planar binding to bind a Glabrezu. SR24 and a +11 Will save mean it might take a few more attempts and the risks if it were to get free are rather more significant. However on its own its a CR13 opponent and therefore a serious risk to any CR12 encounter he might have.

Yeah, I do realize that Planar Binding could be something else, like a CR 12 or CR 13 Creature on its own.

Pathfinder: We Made The Magical Classes Stronger To Discourage Multi-Classing (Also, Because We Really Love Casters)

Lets turn things on their heads...

When was the last time a 3/4 Spellcaster was the Big Bad Evil Guy?

I think mechanically speaking, a mid to high level Bard would be
a bigger challenge for PCs than a fighter. Seriously.

We had the No Caster/Full Caster Scuze Me While I Whip This Out
at CR 20. It ALWAYS happens in threads like this.

But how about something more reasonable and relevant to where the bulk of games see the majority of the action, 8-12 level?

How about a CR 12 or 13?

I bet the Alchemist, Bard, Inquisitor or Summoner would all give
a Fighter 12 or Fighter 13 a run for the money in combat
and bring a bunch of other ways to hurt the PCs that are beyond
fighting in the dungeon or the palace or something.

Edit: Help with skills please, too.

Gauth
Medium Aberration
Hit Dice: 16d8+64 (136 hp)
Initiative: +9
Speed: 5 ft. (1 square), Fly 40 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 25(+2 Insight, +5 Dex, +8 natural),Touch 16, A Gauth may never be flanked, caught flat-footed or surprised (All-Around Vision and Foresight ability)
Base Attack/CMD/CMD: +12/+20/+34
Attack: Eye rays +17 ranged touch attack and bite +16 melee
(2d6+12 17-20X2)
Full Attack: Eye rays +18 ranged touch attack and bite +16 melee (2d6+24 17-20X2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Eye rays, Stunning Gaze
Special Qualities: All-Around Vision, Foresight, Greater Arcane Sight (180 Ft.), True Seeing (180 Ft.), Darkvision 180 Ft., Flight, Stunning Cone, Spell Resistance 20
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +12, Will +15
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 22, Wis 20, Cha 16
Skills: Placeholder, trying to nail them out...
Feats: AlertnessB, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Cornugon Smash,
Power Attack, Great Fortitude, Improved Great Fortitude, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Dodge, Mobility
Environment: Cold Hills
Organization: Solitary, pair, or cluster (3–6)
Challenge Rating: 11
Alignment: Usually Neutral Evil, Tending Towards Chaotic Evil

Gauths are sometimes derided as "baby beholders" or termed "lesser beholders" but woe betide anyone who is discovered to have insulted a proud and noble Gauth in such a fashion!

Smaller physically than "True Beholders," Gauths are 5 foot spheres that weigh approximately 500 pounds. They are more mobile than Beholders and since they have innately "weaker" (A gauth would say uniquely capable and ruthlessly specialized, thank you very much!) spell-like abilities, Gauths have a Savage Bite that has been compared by some anthropologists and adventures to that of a Bulette.

Gauths have disposed of the Law and restrictive and rigid Hive Mind of their more well-known counterparts. They have a mercenary and organized crime bent and often sell themselves as reconnaissance men and artillery pieces for militaries. They can tend to be a bit more Chaotic as well and have been known to work as Crime lords, highwaymen and most infamously of all...

Adventurers!

Watch yourself if you find a gauth on your "team," however.
Though they possess no hands, they will not hesitate to stab you in the back!

Relationships with Other Monsters: They are distrusted by most everyone, and despised by "True" Beholders. Eye Rays fly whenever Gauths and Beholders meet.

Special Abilities:
All-Around Vision
Darkvision 180 Feet
True Seeing as Spell of same name
Foresight as Spell of same name
Greater Arcane Sight (180 feet) as Spell of same name.
Savage Bite: A Beholder's Bite has a critical threat range of 17-20

Eye Rays (SLA): These are Spell-Like Abilities that work as though they were cast by a 16th level caster. They have 100 feet ranges and are Free Actions. The Save DC is charisma-based
1. Exhaustion (No Save)
2. Sleep (DC 21 Will Save, fall asleep for 5 rounds, no HD limit)
3. 10d6 Damage, Energy Subtype Varies By Beholder, No Save
4. Inflict Critical Wounds, as 18th level caster (4d8+18, DC 21
Will Save for half damage.)
5. Greater Dispel Magic, Targeted, as 16th Level Caster
6. Paralysis (DC 21 Fortitude Save or Paralyzed for 5 Rounds)
7. Telekinesis as the spell
8. Slow as the spell (5 round duration)

Stunning Gaze (Su): Gaze Attack, Stun for 1 round, 30 feet,
Will DC 21 negates. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Paladins are professional killers, essentially. They loot corpses and take goods to become better at killing.

In Pathfinder, this is not morally wrong. Anyone who had the capability to be the best at killing quintessences of evil like devils and demons wouldn't be doing his or her job if he wasn't killing them.

That being said, there needs to be a lot more leeway.

If you, and the rest of the players, are seriously considering the paladin having a Faith Crisis/Fall From Grace over a fairly played
8 gold piece poker game, it is time to re-think if it is even possible
for a paladin to be at the table.

Let the paladin be the paladin. Why is he half-assing it? Because he isn't a theologian and philosopher thoroughly versed in theodicy and ethics theory? Stop putting undue burdens upon him.

Fundamental Conceits of the game have to change

1. CMD is far too high. Monsters should only be able to use Strength or Dexterity for their CMD. You should still be able to Trip/Stall things that fly. Multiple legs do not add cumulative bonuses to CMD against tripping, keep it the flat +4. Just make the CMD lower.

2. Take away feat taxes for things that look like Combat Maneuvers/Tactics. Combat Expertise, Deadly Shot and Power Attack are things that should not be feats.

3. Condense martial feats and get ride of the dead weight.
Toughness/Endurance/Diehard=Should be one feat
Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack=One feat
Trip, Grapple, Bull Rush, etc, 1 feat

Let them scale. Spells scale, animal companions scale, native class abilities scale, Feats need "trees." Chop down the !@#$ing trees already.
Cut the boring feats out entirely or have them as part of a scaling tree.

4. No granular/linear things, no fiddling bonuses.
Weapon Focus/GWF=1 feat. Give 1 re-roll of an attack a day, then give one re-roll of an attack a combat. See? It makes it work it to take something like that.

The feats are the things that need to change. Martial wise they need a real kick in the pants power wise and they have to scale. We cannot go on pretending that Dodge and Point Blank Shot are things like Natural Spell and broken metamagic feats with mininal requirements.

I'm actually stunned that someone believes that having bad balance is "Part of the Genre"

I see why paizo can get away with it so easily, they have people who support bad balance even though good balance wouldn't effect them

What if a fighter had an Arcane Companion that let him cast spells better than a strong yet not-optimized Wizard, or an aspect that he could absorb into himself to use Arcane magic better than all but the very strongest Wizards?

Well, I have just described Animal Companions, Eidolons, Synthesist summoners, Summon Monster and Planar Binding. How about a little role-respect and niche protection?

Once a round melee attack negation after you are balls deep into your feats and at 5th level. Soooo OP, right?

Melee Can't Have Nice Things.

It is the year 2014 and we are all paying for and playing the house rules of a system that wasn't even all that hot when it came out in 2000.

The definitive guide to playing Pathfinder is to realize that all the developers are Amys so you need to find a full casting class
and never let go.

How about some combat maneuvers that work?

Why should Improved Trip take 3 feats? Why should the payoff after 3 feats
be attempting Trips against monsters with CMDs in the 20s and 30s at level 5 and 6?

Must somebody really need to have a 115 to 130 IQ in our world to hit the monster in the ankle with his polearm? Nice Intelligence pre-req still there for no reason after a decade. Great job, fellas.

Why isn't Combat Expertise just a combat action instead of a feat?
If you were going to make me take it, did you have to gimp it, too?

Who was crying out in the wilderness for the Bullrush and Grapple and Trip and Disarm and Feint nerfs on top of the Combat Expertise nerfs?

Why don't druids have to eat 2 feats of b.s. before Natural Spell or Clerics eat multiple crap feats before they get something like Divine Interference?

Ah, so many questions but who has the time to answer them? We're way too busy making some more Full Casters. CasterFinder!

The Rogue is mechanically dead and has been for a while.

Bard variants
Ranger variants
Seeker Sage Sorcerers
Oracle Variants
Alchemist class as a whole, but especially Vivisectionist
and Crypt Breaker.

There is no real justifiable reason to play straight up 1-20 rogue anymore unless you're a total masochist. Investigator ruins Skill/Trap/Sneak Attack Rogues, the Swashbuckling Zorro and Scarlet Pimpernel and 3 Muskateers sort of Rogue is done in by the Swashbuckler, the damage dump sort is best suited for Urban Rangers with Instant Enemy, Hunters and Slayers.

I wonder what argument can be made that at the end of an Investigator's career that he can be at 22 Intelligence... (14+6 item+2 from leveling or race) and be only down...

1d6 Sneak Attack
A few talents
Evasion/Improved Invasion
Uncanny Dodge

But be up...

2d8, roll twice, take best, 16 times a day on saves or attacks
7/7/6/6/6/6 on spells
A Good Will Save
2d8, roll twice take best on all of my skills, pretty much
Poison Resistance

I mean, come on. The only reason to not play one of these is if you don't want a character that can cast magic, otherwise known as "I don't want to win the game."

All of the "Feat Taxes."

Point Blank Shot
Power Attack and Deadly Shot. People should just be able to try those.
Other systems have the thing where it takes longer to do something or you sacrifice accuracy or defense for damage and they call it things like "Haymaker" and "Wild Swing" and "All-Out-Combat." Just enough already.
These aren't interesting enough to be feats.

Weapon Finesse
Biggest, dumbest feat tax in the world and +1 BAB as a requirement when the classes who would like to pick it up don't have +1 BAB at first level has been insult to injury for over 10 years with Dungeons and Dragons.

Spell Focus (Conjuration) to people who just want Augmented Summoning.

Combat Expertise. Sweet mother of Iomedae, Combat Expertise.
First off, this is already kinda covered with Fighting Defensively. It is already an option, basically.

13 Intelligence to sacrifice offense for defense and to learn how to sort of almost maybe do a combat maneuver is a total b.s. feat.
13 Intelligence is supposed to be the equivalent to 120 or 130 IQ is what I was always told. Little Known Fact: 80 percent of UFC fighters are also MENSA members.

Halfsie Combat Maneuver feats. PEOPLE SAID THEY DIDN'T EVEN WANT IT IN THE BETA. And yet there they are. +2 to a Combat Maneuver, what a great feat!

Dodge and Mobility to Spring Attack. I've played SAGA edition Star Wars for years. Characters can "Spring Attack." It is not "broken." Stop it.
This is not worth three feats. People should just be able to do that.
And people's attacks of opportunity are opportunistic attacks that are not as strong and well prepared as primary attacks. They should take a -5 penalty the way that iterative attacks do when you think about it.

Weapon Focus/Specialization and Greater and all that.
Just give it to the Fighters for free, already. These are not "real" feats. They perfectly exemplify Linear Fighter/Quadratic Wizard, though.

Oooh, you're 12th level. You got another +2 damage with a Longbow! Congrats, sucker, your friend is casting 12th level spells.

All of this stuff is bogus.

Having Bogus Feat Prerequisites Without Spell Pre-Reqs:

Nobody has to take a bogus spell of dubious utility to take a
5th level spell.

Yet..

To get a bonus to trip and have it provoke AoOs like it used to
takes 3 feats! A 3 feat tax to get moderately better at one
CMB.

We all know what the stinkers are. Dodge. Combat Expertise.
Point Blank Shot. On and on and on.

"Yeah, this feat is lame but it sets up..."

Casters don't have to take Feather Fall and Levitate and Fly if they want Overland Flight. There isn't a 4 spell "chain" they have to complete to do something of mild interest, like be 10 percent better at one Maneuver and not take AoOs with it. Whoo! Two feats of the ten your character base gets. Worth it!

:/

Every rogue trading out trap-finding just proves my point. It is
almost meaningless. Other classes easily replicate it, it is exceedingly
rare and it made the rogues mechanically suffer in combat.

This is not 1979 anymore. Trapfinding and snagging the loot isn't
a third of the game. It is like, 10 percent of the game, tops.

Trading out 100 percent of 10 percent of the game for 15 percent boost
to 70 to 80 percent of the game, combat, is something Rogue players do
in Pathfinder now. That is an indictment of the Rogue's base power level, not something in favor of Archetypes.

Only a Rogue (or archetype with trapfinding) can detect a magical trap. Garbage.

Assumes all magic traps have some magical permanent means of not giving off a magical aura. Gives rogues some supernatural sense to detect these that cannot be rationally be explained. ie, why can't a highly perceptive elven sorcerer using detect magic have at least a chance to find a magic trap?

I feel this abilities overrated utility and inability to be duplicated through other class features (save very poor options like Find Traps) has done massive damage to the rogue class; this is the core feature that has lead to the rogues imbalance in my mind.

Oh, certainly. This makes zero mechanical sense. It is nothing but Plot Armor and Arbitrarium.

Lets say Thrug the Half-Orc Rogue 10 12 Intelligence and Alix the Elven Wizard 10, 24 Intelligence, racial bonus to Perception, Maxed out Spellcraft and Use Magic Device pushing 20, his whole career is casting magic spells,he's mechanically twice as smart as Thrug, he can cast Detect Magic at will and if he so chose, Disable Device isn't even cross-class anymore so he could totally be getting some Disable Device Check and Perception check in the 20s...

Thrug finds the trap and disables it and Alix can't?
If anything, Alix is the guy you want in a dungeon around to find and disable magical traps, not Thrug.

t is nothing but Role Protection and you are right. It has limited the rogue's mechanically because trap finding and disabling is SO great and that means you can gimp the rogue on actual combat, which is 80 percent of the game, basically.

:/

Weapon Focus/Specialization split and still doing what they still do.

Why not...

Weapon Focus: +1/+2
Improved Weapon Focus +2/+4
Greater Weapon Focus +4/+6
Superior Weapon Focus +6/+8

The distinction to Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization is bogus.

It is for Fighters only anyway.

Weapon Training is the Broad weapon type, FOCUS is you pick 1
weapon in particular to focus with. What is "specialization" when
Focus is already specializing?

+2/+4 for something that should be Fighter's main thing (Fighting, that is literally just about all it does) is not worth 4 feats.
Make the +2/+4 into the class or beef those feats up.

+6/+8 to attack probably isn't worth 4 feats. That really ain't nothing special compared to 3 Ranger feats without pre-reqs by level 12 or Barbarian Rage stuff.

They shouldn't even be feats to begin with. It is like if Sorcerers had to spend "bonus feats" for Bloodline powers.

I know lots of people are down on Focus/Specialization but lots of people think that those 4 feats are the bee's knees and the reason to play the Fighter.

Because nobody wants reality in the Medieval Fantasy Superhero game but
Rogues are straight jacketed by reality and of all classes are the class
most likely to exist real world.

Any time a Rogue might get Nice Things (tm) people scream for VERISIMILITUDE and want him as the guy disarming lame attrition/resource
denial traps that freeze the rest of the party out of the action (okay, how many wand wacks does that 12d6 bomb do me?), the 1d6+20 additional situational damage maybe dealer and the role that explicitly has "monkey" in the job description, Skill Monkey, that is done by other classes better, even core ones (Hiyah Bard and Ranger!) and in many ways utterly negated by magic.

I detest how Pathfinder took the 2/3/4 HD add for 1 CR to
a monster mechanic away, seemingly and doesn't explicitly tell you in a Monster stat block when added dice will boost its size category.

Well, after spending some time here after a long absence, I've been noticing people posting characters and the like and Intelligence and Charisma are in short supply, buddy!

7 or lower Intelligence, Charisma or Wisdom, or even 2 of the 3, doesn't just seem not as uncommon as I thought but rather de rigeur.

I can understand one shotting this to do something Iconic and silly and fun like Big Dumb Fighter, Grumpy Dwarf Combatant ("Oh, you want something that doesn't directly effect combat prowess? NO!") Kruggor The Social Psychopath Barbarian but really, those have to be pretty uncommon, right?

Statistically shouldn't 2 6s or 7s be about just as rare as an 18 or 2 getting rolled naturally before racial hits?

Also, how is that fun to roleplay consistently? 6 or 7 Intelligence and a Charisma score in the 6s and 7s to boot means what? 2 or 3 standard deviations off of the baseline average intelligence and charisma of a human being? Does that mean profound mental handicaps and developmental hinderances? How can that be fun on a long term basis? How does that even mechanically play out and socially play out in the real world with other characters?

Is this just to squeeze the last +2 out to buff a guy in combat or is this legit? Do people sincerely play these Unlucky Number 7s and 6s a lot?

I just think it is strange however that the strongest things mechanically a Monk can do seem to be...

1. Ditch Monk-flavored abilities for Magic
2. Use a bow.
3. Ditch the iconic Wisdom to AC, lose Fast Movement, stop
increases to damage on unarmed strikes and be Fighter light as a Sohei.

What class is the best punching somebody in the face right now?
Pounce Barbarians? Brawler Fighters with Brawling Armor?
Dire Tiger Druids with Big Cat companions? Synthesist Summoners? Vivesectionist Alchemists? A really twinked out Arcane Caster/Gish?
Magus maybe with channeling spells like Vampiric Touch?
Buff/War/Strength Clerics maybe?

At what point does it just get silly when you make the big list of "Classes That Are Good At Punching People in the Face" and the Monk
is like 6th mechanically speaking?

One of the coolest ones going, unfortunately: Yuan Ti

Sometimes I get the feeling that some classes will never get balanced because they were broke from 3.0 and the industry has been so influenced by that and so many people worked on 3.0 and 3.5 that sensible things will never happen for classes. Sorry to harp about monks but if you were going to talk about class balance, talking about a class that was broken, as in, makes no conceptual or mechanical sense and hasn't since 2000, Monk is a fine place to start. Pretending that this thing's role in a group is "mobile skirmisher" and keeping in silly things like Wholeness of Body, Manuever Training and a poorly-worded Flurry ("exactly" like TWF, huh?) in order to keep it from getting a d10 and full BAB is just absurd at this point.

It kinda feels like back in the day when Skip Williams and some other people clearly adored Wizards and hated Sorcerers and never skipped a chance to screw over a spontaneous caster.

Character optimization is something like realizing it is is stronger to Wild Shape into a Dire Tiger than a canary and that a big cat is a good
animal companion.

System MASTERY means realizing...

"Hey, level 7 and 8 coming up. People will be casting 3rd and 5th
level spells with 14 to 20 in their casting stats. SLAs will be around
+4 DC from having 8 to 10 Hit Dice. What number puts me in the ball
park of comfortably beating say, a DC 18 50 percent of the time?"

Then you go, "Oh, I'm a rogue. The extra skill from intelligence isn't that big of a deal. Instead of the 14 intelligence, 12 Wisdom, maybe I switch those around. I got about 2500 dollars more than I should have, so I think a +2 cloak of resistance makes sense, especially since my Fortitude is a weak save, too. Should my PC be a race that can get bonuses to saves, especially mind-targeting, like a Dwarf, Halfling, Half-Elf or Half Orc with Sacred Tattoo or should my human bonus feat and Campaign bonus feat go to something like Iron Will? Either case, I want to be around a +8 against spells and spell-like abilities like charms and compulsions."

You'd never get it from these posts but I had a good time. Maybe I'm just being a snotty, arrogancy, douchey +5 Mithril Codpiece of System Snobbery here but I don't even know where to start with these guys.

I did see one of the guys today and talked about his character in a way to try to backdoor changes to it while playing Magic with him.

DrDeth is right, man. They don't think their characters are strong...THEY THINK THEY'RE FREAKIN' BROKEN, MAN!

Crap fortitude and will saves (3-6 range at level 7, 25,000 GP, 40ish point buy), crap Initiative, sub-20 AC.
Two Weapon fighting, +12 at the highest, with short swords for 9 damage a hit. Look out, Drizzt!

He said Rogues and Monks were "crazy good" when suggesting a class for me to play. I politely disagreed...and the DM backed Mr. Crazy Good!

He just thought it was the hottest thing going but it was really just a hot mess. The big cat probably would have soloed him even though everything a Druid does is nerfed to the unholy 9 layers of hell.

SPCDRI wrote:

DrDeth wrote:

Why? Wisdom is my first choice of mental stats. Perception is the most used skill in the game. No matter how powerful you are, once you fail a Will save, you're usually out of it.

"Wisdom does nothing for you, SP!"

Half the party continues to get obliterated by mental effects. Cloak
of Resistance is a waste of money. I'm facepalming with both of my
hands only because I can't facepalm with 3 or more hands.

I remember the first time my party decided to create a bunch of weapon damage monsters and more or less completely ignore Will. That was the campaign where the vast majority of party deaths occurred at the hands of dominated or possessed allies.

The thing is, this is a Fool Me Once, Shame On You, Fool Me Twice, Shame On Me. If the other players in the party and the DM looks at people's saves and go...

"What's that? Everybody in the party is +5 or less against Will save in 45 point buy 7th level Pathfinder? Seems legit."

And the DM continues to wreck PCs with Will save effects and neither the DM nor the players do anything about it...

How is that possible? You'd think these players would repeatedly fail will saves against things like Compulsion and go...

"Somebody, anybody, tell me 4 ways to boost my Will save!"

But to just continually go "3 in the will save. I'm a Fighter. I'm a Rogue. These things happen!" in level 7+, 25,000 GP, bonus feat, 45 point buy Pathfinder just blows my mind.

Why? Wisdom is my first choice of mental stats. Perception is the most used skill in the game. No matter how powerful you are, once you fail a Will save, you're usually out of it.

"Wisdom does nothing for you, SP!"

Half the party continues to get obliterated by mental effects. Cloak
of Resistance is a waste of money. I'm facepalming with both of my
hands only because I can't facepalm with 3 or more hands.

I'd say skills. The list does have some things I really dislike (Too high DC for Tumbling, skill consolidation but FLY becomes a skill?) but the consolidation is nice. Gee, how many ranks in Hide? In Move Silently? In listen and spot? Yuck.

Not having cross class stuff does hurt the more skilled characters but helps everybody else out and saves some pains in the butt with math. Doing the math of Int+Race/Class/Type then multiply that by 4, make sure I'm not over, etc. I'm happy that is gone.

I think the gap between full casters and half-caster/non-caster has been
narrowed by a pretty big deal.

I really like how the races don't NEED to have negative modifiers.

Racial variants and archetypes=Slam Dunk.

Lessening the need for cheesy, contrived prestige classing is great.

Rangers and Paladins casting at -3 and using one core stat is good.

Giants and Oni are rarely ran and when they are, they are ran dumb.

They don't have intelligence penalties and most have bonuses to Wisdom and other mental attributes. No need to run them as Hill Giant+.

Here Are Some More:

4. Rogues Don't Need A Sneak Attack Dice Improvement But Multiple
Classes And Types Of Monsters Will Get HD Improvement AND +1 HP Per
Level Should They So Choose.

What? You're doing the same d6 damage but the Sorcerer or Wizard or
Bard you fight has 1d6+1 HP or 1d8+1 a level instead of 1d4 or 1d6.
You're doing the same d6 damage but monstrous humanoids and outsiders
now have d10s. Seems legit. :/

5. Sorcerers Still Have To Lag In Spell Level Progression.

The point of that is what? Especially when Wizards seem to be stronger
mechanically. Is this another one of those lovely "BUT TEH SORS WUD PRESTEEJ KWIKKER!" 3.5 artifact when most Pathfinder games don't use
3.0 and 3.5 prestige classes and prestige classing is less emphasized?

Do you think there are some great monsters that just never really get their "day in the sun" for whatever reason?

Here are my top 3 picks for Neglected Monsters:

1. Aboleth

The thing that dooms these guys? They "have to be" in water but you just easily change that. Totally creepy, great abilities, tough, great mental scores to make the Evil Mastermind sort. It is a pity that Beholder and Mind Flayer are owned by WOTC and Aboleths are about as rare as hen's teeth in Pathfinder games. The Core 3 Big Bad Aberrations are MIA.

2. Evil Fey just in general
GRedcaps, spriggan, leprechaun. Quickling, bogeyman, kelpie, evil Satyrs, gremlins, Grimm and grimmstalkers, where are these guys? So classic, so much potential, nowhere to be found.

3. Evil Druids
When is the last time you fought or used one of those? Evil Sorcerers and Wizards and Witches? Dozens. Evil cleric cults? More than you can shake a Holy Symbol at! Yet where oh where is the Evil Druid? Animal Companion, Summon Nature's Ally and Leadership all help with Action Economy. They've got good HD, saves and AC to take a licking and keep on ticking. The Wildshape and Full Casting means they can be very potent adversaries and any party fighting them has to fight them in the wilderness on the evil druid's terms. Ever get lost in the woods? Isn't it horrifying? Imagine an Evil Druid, his Animal Companion, SNAs and Cohort stalking you through a woods. That fear X1000

Fighters and Rogues are the most "realistic" characters in the game as stands and they are the weakest for that self-same reason.

The more rules you can break in a game, the better. Fighters and Rogues are "fair." They gain a level and they get a bit better at an okay thing, physically attacking a foe's AC for HP damage.

Spells, however, are "unfair" because they do things that somebody might not otherwise be able to do. Now, people who talk about Fighters getting 4 skill points are right but compare magic, low-level utility magic, to skills. Many of those spells give +10, +20, even +30 to some skill checks.

The problem with Pathfinder is the problem since 3.0 onwards: Magic is shockingly better than skill points and feats. Given enough time in the system, spells will be published that trivialize every skill point and feat that a Fighter would get.

That "snake" in that tower from Skinsaw Murders... :)

Oh, and the Drowned, of course. I do really like them, but they are hard! But you had a DC10 CON check each round to hold your breath, with each round increasing it by 1. When a check is failed PC begins to drown. First round 0hp, second -1hp and it starts dying in the third round. Dying at -10hp (3.5).
So it's not that hard as described above.
But they rock! P. 46 MMIII

They might not be dead 1-on-1. Thing is, 2 of them is considered a CR 10

Monster Manual II and III had some "Really?" monsters in it.
Runehounds, chain golems, elemental weirds, etc.

Imagine your damage with this build:

Str 18, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 10
(Starting Array was 15,17, 12, 10, 8, 10; +2 Str for Human bonus, +1 str level 4, +1 Dex level 8)

And assuming you are playing at level 8, and I am going to assume that you are since you considered +2 ability from level bonuses and 4d6 sneak attack dice...

Anything that can cast 3rd and 4th level Will save spells, Supernatural abilities, Spell Like abilities or the equivalent thereabouts is straight up owning that character. Even after resistance save this and luck save that, and feat this and trait that it will be charmed, held, confused, made insane, blinded, etc.

Go metagame a bit. Look through the 2 bestiaries and consider just how many monsters have Will save targeting nastiness. Furthermore, think about how many base and core and alternative classes have ways to get at your Will save.

A Bard talks to the character, hits him off with Suggestion and he's throwing away weapons and armor all the better to do the Funky Chicken Dance. Witch hitting you with Slumber? Nighty night. Think about it. That is not a save that you want to be base +1 on.

I don't want any innocents, or elaborateness, or corruption of a good church or anything like that. It is too much heaviness for me to bring into my first Pathfinder game that I will be DMing.

They are going to be oozes, aberrations and psychopathic cult guys that exist to do terrible things and then get killed for it in a gross, subterranean dungeon.

Thanks for the advice on staying away from real cults.

Maybe because those classes don't seem to attract min-maxers/munchkins/power gamers, no offense intended.

Grunge Elves

Grunge Elves are the hard core versions of so-called "High Elves." You know, the Elves that parade around in their man dresses and are called things like Alavandar the Munificent and cast Prestidigitation to remove dungeon grime from their man dresses. A Grunge Elf will get right in there and roll around in the muck like the dirty dog he is. Grunge Elves are at home in nasty woods and deep, dark and nasty dungeons. They revel in killing and boozing and boozing and then killing some more.

Humanoid (Elf)
Medium
Normal
Flexible (+2 Dexterity, +2 Strength)
Standard
Low Light Vision
Darkvision
Stubborn
Stalker
Weapon Familiarity: Longbow, bastard sword, greataxe, and anything with the word "Elven" in it is considered to be martial

That being said, there are some wonky pricing issues with the new subsystem, but the core races aren't part of it.

Yes they are. They all have issues.

A Medium race with the Slow flaw moves at 20 feet even in armor.
Furthermore, the speed is never slowed by encumberance or armor. This is a "drawback" that could really be a positive for a geared up person always in armor.

Why is this? Because Dwarves HAVE TO be 10 points, even though they aren't. Moving at 20 in armor and encumberance with a base speed of 20 isn't a drawback, it is almost a benefit. Reminds me what I learned from a point by system, almost a mantra of HERO: A disadvantage that is not disadvantageous is not a disadvantage.

Halflings are a 6 point race because this system doesn't do skills and skill related feats well. No B.S. You take the 3 plus 2s and you name it Rogueishness and make it cost 3 points, and you make Halfling Luck cost 1 point. The system is delusional. It thinks that for something with the Human type that Skill Focus is worth 1 point, something that will give up to +6 competence, is worth 1 point, whereas a racial bonus, the Skill Bonus, of a +2 to 1 skill is worth 2 points. Furthermore, somebody can make a race that always has say, Deceitful or Animal Affinity and wind up getting +4 to 2 skills for 2 points, which is what the system costs +2 to one skill as.

A Flexible Human or Half Orc or Half Elf, with racial changes, can give its secondary bonus to Intelligence. This is a +2 to Intelligence for 2 points. Meanwhile, having one more skill a level is deemed to be worth 4 points and getting +2 to intelligence after choosing your stat array is worth 4 points. Clearly shenanigans going on here.

all of the races have shenanigans going on.

The genie is out the bottle now, though. How can we pretend that Halflings, Half Orcs and Half-Elves are all the same point wise? We can see that Half Orcs make sense, Half-Elf is fair, and Halfling takes it in the shorts. +2 to Acrobatics is as valuable as Low Light Vision and Skill Focus (Acrobatics)? +2 to Climb is as valuable as +8 to Climb, having a climb speed of 20, and say, re-rolling a Reflex save once a day? B.S.

They've already admitted that weaker races from the Bestiaries are 6 to 7 points and that the stronger ones are 12 to 14 and even as high as 22.

So why pretend that core races are all at 10? We know it to be false now and the mechanics of shoehorning everybody into 10 Racial Points shows how silly it is.

I was just wondering. Do you allow it all or are you using it all, are you Pathfinder core only, do you use supplement stuff? How does allowing 3.0/3.5 equipment impact Pathfinder? Same with feats, spells, prestige classes and the like. I'm interested to hear it.

Guess who did that? I did. My high school buddies put up with my noobishness and helped me a lot and it is just about the only reason I still play.

Start low level

Start core only. Not a bunch of variant this and that, Pathfinder Chronicles, Ultimate this and that, mechanically difficult strategies, yadda yadda yadda.

P.I.G.=Play Iconic Guys. The crusty Dwarf fighter. The Halfling Rogue. The snooty Elf Wizard. Gnome Bards. Get back to your roots.

Learn the rules just that much better.

If you do it right...
You get another GM
The GM will become a better player
You will become a better player because you will learn the rules better.

1.
Have a race not known for being shrewd, possibly even known as a bit dull or mindless even though the stats don't back it up, and have that monster say the monster equivalent of "Uncle! Uncle! and parlay with the characters.

A great monster to try that out with? Mimics! 10/13/10, its part of their culture to surprise prey and eat it, in 3.5 they were said to be able to bargain out of fights, etc.

You could work it as an Advanced mimic who takes up spell casting levels, learns Prestidigitation to clean up slime, wands and the like to heal damage, etc. Sort of like the aberration version of a "good" vampire, for instance.