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No posts. Organized Play character for Renkosuke.




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This is just a general list of issues I took with the playtest kineticist, as of this moment. Some of these are probably posted elsewhere as well. As a disclaimer, I haven't actually tested anything out in an actual game (since it's still the first day).

--Core Issues--
1) Constitution: I'm on the fence about this one. Thematically I love it, but mechanically it has problems: if it's used for too much, then it becomes a god stat, and if it's used for too little then it feels like a debuff on the class. I don't have a solution for this, but reintroducing burn or even just a "take damage to gain buffs" mechanic might work.

2) Weapon proficiency: This feels unnecessary. Key score constitution already puts a debuff on accuracy, and the other classes that have the same issue (Thaumaturge, Inventor, Investigator) have core features that mitigate it (like Devise a Stratagem) on top of having standard martial proficiency progression.

3) Melee Elemental Blasts provoke AoOs: (Because of the Impulse trait) This is *probably* on purpose, but I feel like it's unnecessary on top of all of the other difficulties that kineticists will have making attacks. If the kineticist had on-par attack bonus scaling with all the other non-fighter martials, then I could live with this staying in.

--Basic Class Feats--
4) Elemental Weapon: The feat makes no mention of damage scaling (only that the damage type is the same as the gathered element). As written, it doesn't gain any benefits from handwrap runes and there's no good method of applying its own runes (aside from holding on to it for a day while someone inscribes runes onto it, and then never letting go ever again). I imagine this is just an oversight and I know you can use elemental blasts through it, but as it's written right now it's actually a debuff since it restricts what kind of blasts you can use. Also, it mentions that you have to choose a one-handed weapon, but I imagine you could still choose a weapon with the two-handed trait (like a Bastard Sword) and end up wielding it in 2 hands anyway.

5) Kinetic Activation: More of a quality of life thing, but adding a line that lets you identify scrolls like a spellcaster would be nice (ie: you can automatically identify scrolls that have spells of your element, without needing a check).

6) Flourish actions: There are none, despite a lot of other classes normally having the flourish tag on a lot of similar actions. Blast Barrage, Cycling Blast, and Chain Blasts come to mind. I can't tell if this is on purpose or not, but I feel like they should probably have the flourish tag (Cycling Blast I can see not needing it as much). If nothing else than to prevent them from being used alongside other flourishes (like skirmish strike or, hamster forbid, flurry of blows).

7) Deconstruct Element: Considering this is both an impulse action, and requires Dedicated Gate, the line at the end allowing you to immediately Gather the Element feels inconsequential. Thematically cool though.

--Air Feats--
8) Soothing Breeze: What's the range of this, or is it supposed to be a 20ft emanation?

9) Fair Winds: Considering there is no save for this ability, it seems... strong. Especially with Aura Shaping. And it automatically distinguishes friend from foe.

10) Wings of Air: At-will flight at level 8? For the whole party at level 14? And it's actually better than all other on-level equivalents? Seems... also very strong.

--Fire Feats--
11) Flame Eruption: The damage from this feels wayyy too low for an overflow ability, even with the hazardous terrain (which in theory ticks a maximum of two times per cast, unless push/pull effects are used). Using Stoke Element to boost its damage makes its damage *reasonable* but costs a total of 4 actions. Either the overflow trait needs to be removed or the damage needs to be increased (2d6 base with +d6 per 2 levels feels like the bare minimum).

12) Blazing Wave: This hits the bare minimum for damage, but still feels kinda bad. The prone effect feels somewhat arbitrary too. I feel that persistent fire damage would be more thematic here (also there seems to be a lack of persistent fire damage in general).

13) Furnace Form: Do the Produce Flame spells from Fiery Body use Charisma? And Trained proficiency? It feels relevant since the 1-action produce flame is bound to be a lot more powerful than your fire blast strikes at that level.

14) Arrive in Conflagration: This ability is great, but the teleport requirements are a bit steep. The only way to actually cause persistent fire damage as a pyrokineticist is to critically hit on an Elemental Blast or with the Horrid Ignition feat, which is curiously the same level as Arrive in Conflagration.

15) All Shall End in Flames: Since kineticists have Evasion, having the option to choose to fail the save against this impulse would make its utility a lot more reliable. Also it's somewhat unclear whether Elemental Immunity replaces Elemental Resistance or simply adds to it -- in the latter case, you would also resist the damage from this impulse, making it even less reliable to use for its utility.

I don't have anything to say about the Earth and Water feats since they seem to be relatively balanced with respect to the rest of the class, and I obviously haven't played them yet to see how their utility/damage output balances overall.

My overall takeaway is that the numbers for this class feel slightly underwhelming but its all-day utility potential is relatively high. Auras and utility feats seem to be the way to go, alongside a few key damaging abilities (Blast Barrage and Chain Blasts come to mind).


Hello again!
This time I have a question about using the Delay Blast feat:

Delay Blast:
Benefit(s): When you use a kinetic blast, you can specify a number of rounds between 1 and 5. When that number of rounds has passed, the kinetic blast takes effect at the beginning of your turn. In the interim, you can take a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity to cause the blast to take effect earlier than you initially selected. If you delay another blast while you already have a delayed blast pending, the previous delayed blast dissipates harmlessly.

You must make any decisions you would make about the delayed blast—including designating target positions, choosing infusions, and determining or shaping the area—when you first use the blast. The blast originates from your position at the time you used the blast, not your current position when the blast takes effect, and it targets the position or area you had specified (which may or may not include any targets). A delayed blast radiates an aura of magic appropriate for its spell level even while it is delayed, and during that time, it can be dispelled by dispel magic.

The rules for it seem to indicate that you can use any infusions/other abilities (like metamagic) on it assuming you make those decisions when you create the delayed blast. My questions are about the following interactions:

1) Delay Blast and Ride the Blast.

Ride the Blast:
You can use this wild talent as part of activating a kinetic blast other than telekinetic blast. You transform yourself into your element or energy and send yourself along with your kinetic blast. You appear at the end of the blast's path, adjacent to the blast's target (or final target, for form infusions like chain) or at the center of the burst or spread for form infusions like explosion. This ability doesn't work with form infusions that involve melee attacks (such as kinetic blade) or that use a cone shape (such as spray).

Is it possible to use Ride the Blast on the blast you delay, assuming you had made that decision when you set up the delayed blast? From a strategic standpoint, I think it would be pretty cool strategically since it would allow you to delay a blast, rush into melee, create some chaos, and then suddenly teleport back to a predetermined space. Logically, though, it would be difficult to "send your energy" through a blast that's originating somewhere else. (By that logic, would it still be possible to Ride the Blast if you remained on the origin space for your delayed blast?)

2) Delay Blast and Kinetic Blade/Fist/Whip

This one has a lot fewer applications imo, but it's here for the sake of asking questions. Then again, this seems to be fairly obvious, since the melee attack that triggers it wouldn't actually go through since there's no blast to accompany it anymore (although fist or a telekinetic blade could still work), and by the wording of Delay Blast one could assume that even if you did delay the creation of kinetic weapons, they would just appear in your old space if you moved away and not really be too useful.

3) Hitting yourself with a Delayed Blast

I think this one is fairly clear as well, but if you end up in the AOE or target square of a delayed blast, would you suffer its effects as normal? Could you, in theory, set up a delayed Electric Chain blast and then sacrifice your well-being to jump into its target square and make sure that it gets chained? (assuming it hits of course). Or delay a cyclone, get bull-rushed out of your square, and then eat the force of that cyclone? Speaking of cyclone, would a delayed cyclone not deal damage to any creature on its origin square (since I assume cyclone doesn't deal damage on its origin square since you are occupying it and that would be silly).

I know most people actually don't like delay blast, but as a tactician I see a lot of potential for the ability. Any input/advice would be highly appreciated :)


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hello, I'm relatively new to the Pathfinder world (and forums) but after looking over several classes, I've come to really like the kineticist. When reading over the Wild Talent rules, specifically the part that allows you to replace utility wild talents, I came across the following questions:

1) Is it possible to replace a basic utility talent (say, Basic Phytokinesis) for another level 1 utility wild talent?

2) Given that (1) is possible, and given that Expanded Element states that you gain the chosen element's basic utility talent, without any specific restriction regarding if you chose a primary or non-primary element to expand (probably because this seemed obvious at the time), would it follow that you could replace your basic utility (at level 6 for example) and then regain it for "free" by choosing your primary element again (at level 7), along with the free utility/infusion you would normally gain for expanding your primary element?

RAW, I would say (1) and (2) are both plausible, but RAI I would only really say (1) is justified. Either way, if someone could share some insight, I would greatly appreciate it :)