Chuffy Lickwound

Rogue Fact Checker's page

14 posts. Alias of Scavion.




Male Goblin Vivisectionist Trap Breaker 10

Dot, for great justice!


It is the year of our lord, the Hero Martin, 243 AD. Redwall where once nothing more than a humble abbey has stood, has now grown to be a truly massive kingdom under his divine auspices. The people sing their praises to him as they live full lives without fear due to the efforts of His Chosen. Divinely empowered with strength beyond reason, they do battle against the endless hordes of barbarians, beasts and creatures from the warrens deep below. Born under the stars of His many saints, these Chosen selflessly relinquish the lives they once had to serve as Redwall's Shield and Sword against Evil.

You have been Chosen. Like a muscle you never knew you had being stretched for the first time or a eureka moment where all the world is understood, a flood of knowledge, ability and strength filled you overnight. In no more than a month however, a Priest has come as news of your Gift has spread to whisk you to the capital of Redwall, Saint Maria. Within that great city is the palatial Cathedral of Saint Maria, throne of the current King Frederick Wimbledon the III.

Your rooms granted to you in an adjoining complex are lavish, far beyond your previous humble(Or even perhaps not so humble) origins. Today you are to be seen by the King and sworn into his Crusaders before basic training and exercises to make sure you are fit to do battle against His enemies.

Who are you and what life did you live before? Why do you believe you have been Chosen? Why is the Kingdom of Redwall the greatest land in the world to you?


Please cancel my subscriptions. Incoming big life changes means I have to budget hardcore @_@


So I got my handy dandy subscriber pdf today. In the spirit of the thread, I would ask that people refrain from copy pasting the texts and would keep to paraphrasing.

Havent had the time to read through it all but Ill start things off interesting. Ranged Feint feat. Rogues rejoice.


Male Goblin Vivisectionist Trap Breaker 10

Discussion goes here.


Dot for later.


Man this game is my jam. A Choose your own adventure style with a solid combat system and GREAT narration.

I ran into some dryads and they cured me of all the curses I had. Took my stuff too but I'm not even mad.


Would like to hear folks' thoughts on Favored Class Bonuses for Wizards. I like the extra durability +1 HP gives, but I'm also rather fond of the extra spells in my book.


Just an idea running through my head for awhile. Drop a line if you like it, don't, or have suggestions.

Smite, Lesser:
Smite, Lesser
School evocation; Level cleric 3

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT

Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect ray
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION
You call upon your deity's favor to strike down your foe that manifests in a myriad of ways depending on the deity. Make a ranged touch attack modified by your Wisdom instead of dexterity. The deific strike deals 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) on a successful hit.

Smite:
Smite
School evocation; Level cleric 5

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area 5-ft.-radius spread(See text)
Effect ray
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial(see text); Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION
This spell functions like Lesser Smite except the deific strike deals 1d8 damage per caster level (maximum 15d8) on a successful hit. Should the Smite miss however, it causes a loud crash on the square the creature targeted by the smite is. This loud crash renders any creatures within the radius Deafened for 1 round per caster level if they fail a Fortitude Save.

Smite, Greater:
Smite, Greater
School evocation; Level cleric 7

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area 5-ft.-radius spread(See text)
Effect ray
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial(see text); Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION
This spell functions like Smite except the deific strike deals 1d8 damage per caster level (maximum 20d8) on a successful hit. The deafening effect no longer requires the spell to miss and a failed save knocks creatures within the radius prone.


Male Goblin Vivisectionist Trap Breaker 10

Discussion page activate!


It happened quickly and without warning. The sick grew sicker and attempts to cure them made it worse. When they died they rose again to devour the flesh of the living and spread the sickness. Magical attempts to cure the victims backlashed and spread the disease. The faithful of Sarenrae found their prayers unanswered while the other deities lacked potent enough answers to the epidemic. Another god had been slain, but unlike Aroden's demise, the death of the Goddess of Healing and Light had a more drastic effect on the world as we knew it. Though we did not know it at the time, She Whose Name We Dare Not Utter had dealt a mortal wound to the forgotten goddess. Her blade was poisoned with necromantic power that corrupted the goddess from within, turning Light to Shadow and Healing to Disease. She took her place beside Her and Her power beyond our comprehension was magnified further. The Eternal Night fell on our fair world and the horrors have never ceased since then. Civilization as we knew it had ended with only small pockets of last bastions remaining. The denizens of other planes lost interest in our world as the mortal races dwindled as many deemed the Material Plane as lost or unprofitable to venture to. It's been a hundred years since then and the mortal races have more or less accepted their lot and make of it what they can.
_______________________________________________________________________

The old scribe finishes his story to those coming of age who would become another group of Skimmers. It's a story you've heard before, when you came of age wherever you did, someone has always made sure to pass the story down though its often embellished differently. You are, of course, a Skimmer yourself now. An unlucky soul whose ancestors hadn't the sense to bunker down in one of the more defended bastions(If they're even around anymore, reliable communication died out long ago) or lived in a bastion that fell but escaped. Regardless, you've made yourself useful and this particular group of Skimmers hasn't thrown you out. They're currently based in what appears to be a small underground base in the cellar of a decrepit barracks. The area had been expanded to accommodate the growing numbers of the Skimmer group and there's talk of attempting to establish a settlement or even culling the ranks to survive. The hideout features a few underground tunnels that lead to critical supply routes and living areas.

The Eldest calls a meeting of the more veteran Skimmers whom you are one of. It's some time off however and you're free to mingle in the hideout.


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Exactly as the thread says. I'm putting together a document of rogue-like characters whom subsume or otherwise replace the need for a Rogue in the party.

I would greatly appreciate any and all contribution and would be more than happy to credit your contribution with your username.

This is likely going to be more or less a data gathering for an eventual "Guide to Rogue-like Characters".

Preferably I'd like to see Bard and Ranger builds as I think I have Alchemists covered already(Love em to death I do), but I'd happily take anything. I'd also appreciate a short description depicting what your character subsumes from the Rogue whether that be scouting abilities, face, jack of all trades-ness, and etc.


Just looking for ways to tweak my main go to for rogues.

Gadrick:

Gadrick

Human Trap Breaker Vivisectionist Alchemist 10
Traits: Deathtouched, Alluring

Str:10
Dex:18(20)(Ability score increases +2)
Con:14
Int:16(18)(+2 Human)
Wis:10
Cha:10

Feats:
1: Weapon Finesse
FS: Skill Focus(Perception)
3: Martial Weapon Proficiency(Scimitar)
5: Dervish Dance
7: Arcane Strike
8: Skill Focus(Disable Device)
9: Extra Discovery?

Discoveries:
2: Infusion
4: Bleeding Attack
6: Wings
8: Chameleon
10: Enhance Potion

Gear:
+2 Keen Scimitar
Cloak of Resistance +3
Trapspinger's Gloves
+3 Shadow Mithril Chainshirt
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2
Headband of Vast Intelligence +2
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Ring of Protection +1
Wayfinder equipped with Clear Spindle
Silver Spindle(Divine Favor)
63k gold spent

Special Abilities:
Sneak Attack 5d6
Alchemy
Brew Potion
Mutagen
Trapfinding

Skills(90 points):
Consider all abilities at an extra +2 over what is noted to account for Heroism. Dex-based Skills are increased by +2 during Mutagen.

Acrobatics: +18(10 ranks)
Bluff: +10 (10 ranks)
Craft(Alchemy): +18(1 rank)
Perform(Dance): +2(2 ranks)
Perception: +19(24 vs Traps) (10 ranks)
Kn.(Nature/Heal sub): +17 (10 ranks)
Disable Device: +24(29 vs Traps) (10 ranks)
Stealth: +31 (10 ranks)
Spellcraft: +16(10 ranks)
Escape Artist: +18 (10 ranks)
(7 ranks left)

DEFENSES
HP: 77
AC: 25(32 with Mutagen boosting Dex and Barkskin)
CMD: 25
Fort:+12 Ref:+15 Will:+6(Immune to possesions and mental control)
Buffed Saves are: Fort +14 Ref +17 Will +8(+2 vs Mind Affecting)

OFFENSES:
This guy gets completely outrageous with buffs.
Melee Attack Bonus: +14/+9 (+7 BAB +2 Wpn +5 Dex)
Ranged Attack Bonus: +13/+7
Full Buffed Attack Bonus: +21/+21/+16 Breakdown: 7(BAB)+7(Dex)+2(Wpn)+2(Morale)+1(Haste)+2(Invis)
Buffs: Heroism, Mutagen, Haste, Greater Invisibility,
Damage: 1d6+12+5d6/1d6+12+5d6/1d6+12+5d6

I'm curious whether a light mace and buckler(so I still have a free hand) would work out.


Do you like Final Fantasy?

Do you like Narrative?

Do you like bad ass martials who can do super human things?

Bam! Final Fantasy D6!

Take a look. The PDF is super well done and I've had a killer time with it with my friends.

And it's all homebrewed by some nice folks from GitP.

Feel free to ask questions, I think I'm fairly familiar with the system now that I've played it for a few months.


Post your agreements here =P

1. I will not deliberately attempt to break your game.

2. Issues I have with the game will be discussed after the session and not interrupt the game.


25 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Does this ability grant you the ability to Take 10 on Use Magic Device?

Does that override the Special section that disallows you to Take 10 on it?

My personal thoughts aren't too sure if Skill Mastery grants you the ability to Take 10 if you otherwise couldn't*. Basically for every other skill, Skill Mastery does the same thing, but for Use Magic Device it does more.

*Not including the distraction clause which is nullified by Skill Mastery.


Alright so I have one.
Original
Benefit: Once per round while using Crane Style, when you have at least one hand free and are either fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you can deflect one melee weapon attack that would normally hit you. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it and not flat-footed. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you.

New
Benefit: Once per round while using Crane Style, when you have at least one hand free and are either fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you can deflect one melee weapon attack that would normally hit you. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it, not flat-footed and must not be denied your Dexterity Bonus to Armor Class. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you. A natural twenty may not be deflected.


Atonement wrote:
Restore Class: A paladin, or other class, who has lost her class features due to violating the alignment restrictions of her class may have her class features restored by this spell.

How do you regain your powers if you broke your Code of Conduct?


53 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 4 people marked this as a favorite.

Does Greater Feint deny the opponent of their Dex Bonus to AC against all attacks made against them or only the Feinter's?

Does it allow for the Feinter to make ranged attacks against the feinted target? Feint says that it only applies to melee attacks, does the benefit of the feat change that?


Hello friends! Just finished another playtest tonight and I'm here to share my findings. Same setup like before. I ran 2 characters and DMed while my friend ran the Bloodrager and Slayer.

The Party:
Human Celestial Bloodrager 6
Human Investigator 6
Elf Slayer 6
Dwarf Shaman 6

Ambush is successful on the first night with a 80% chance of success. All members except the Bloodrager succeed their skill checks. Investigator bluffs, Shaman used Kn.Religion, and the Slayer used Stealth.

Encounter 1
Slayer succeeds on Stealth vs the Scarlet Son as he flies in. Investigator succeeds on his spot to see Zadendi creeping up on him and succeeds his bluff to act like he doesn't notice. Zadendi charges and the Investigator is allowed to maintain his dex bonus to AC. Party begins to close in and Zadendi flees with the Scarlet Son taking her.

Party keeps sight of Zadendi through the air and tracks them to their lair.

Encounter 2
Slayer scouts around the church. Neither he nor the Scarlet Son detect one another. Regrouping, the Slayer moves into the church first, while the party watches at the doorway. This time he is surprised by the Scarlet Son. Combat ensues. Party is victorious due to everyone having magic weapons. Bloodrager enlarged for this encounter.

Encounter 3
Slayer scouts the catacombs. Rolls very low on stealth. I roll some amazing stealth checks for the Wights. 34 34 35 @_@. Slayer gets wrecked. Surprisingly I miss all but 1 attack, the Slayer had a well invested AC. Shaman moves first, using the Heavens Leap ability to get the Bloodrager into full attacking position. Wights give the Slayer another 2 negative levels. Investigator goes invisible and moves in. Slayer just tries to deal some damage being unable to use his bow properly or flee. Bloodrager kills one of the Wights. Shaman uses Heaven's Leap on the Slayer, teleporting him to safety. Party decimates the rest of the wights without anymore trouble.

Party buffs a ton now. Investigator shields, barkskins, and Bull's Strength for some impressive numbers. Bloodrager casts Shield.

Trap
Investigator spots the Trap DC28. He ends up spending 3 inspiration points trying not to horribly fumble the check and setting off the trap. Eventually he succeeds.

Encounter 4
Bloodrager wins initiative, hits Zadendi for 26, then gets Hold Personed. Investigator was invisible and takes her down.

Encounter 5
Everyone fails their Sense Motive against the Succubus' natural 1 on her bluff. 23. Investigator gets hit with the Death Attack, but he took Great Fortitude at 1st level for a +9 to his fort save total. He succeeds =). Shaman casts Communal Protection from Evil while the Succubus tries summoning the Babau. Long fight, Avalexi fails her Babau summon. Slayer mostly useless with the -3 from negative levels. Witty innuendo between Bloodrager and Avalexi. A lucky crit throws her into flee mode, but the Slayer finally lands a shot taking her out before she can act.

Ending thoughts,

Bloodrager: Celestial is crazy good, Good Aligned attacks saved his bacon in that fight. Wishes the other Bloodlines were brought up to the same level as the Celestial and Arcane Bloodlines are.

Slayer: A move action for Favored Target is too harsh when you can full attack instead. Even moreso for an Archer who would otherwise not have to waste time closing anyways. I was of the opinion that it would be fine to wait till 10, but I let him know that he hadn't done it yet in fights and he almost always chose to full attack instead.

Investigator: Solid. I like his general contribution to battles, makes Knowledge checks, aims for flanks to help his party. Damage is a bit low but thats okay considering his utility with extracts and skills.

Shaman: Is really good. Heaven's Leap is a godsend to help the martials get into place and get their full attack. Pretty balanced.

Any suggestions for the next playtest? We're going to run another at 6th before upping the characters to 10th.


Party:
Elf Slayer Archer
Human Bloodrager 2HF
Human Investigator Little of everything
Dwarf Shaman 2HF This time shes been altered to have the Life Spirit.

So like my other thread my friend and I are playing 2 each with me DMing the scenario. Onto the playtest!

Encounter 1:
The intrepid Pathfinders rush to find the Warhounders getting ready to execute Yargos and his friends. Battle ensues!

Our Shaman wins initiative with her +8 (Familiar and Improved initative), she rushes up and catches the Warhounders off guard. The party begins to reduce the enemy numbers but not before the Warhounders go and push Yargos off the cliff. On the Bloodrager's turn he bloodrages and rushes to catch the men dangling. More fighting, Slayer has some difficulty due to lacking precise shot, but oh well. Investigator holds his ground due to drinking a Shield potions and pumping his AC to 19. More fighting, a Warhounder punches the Bloodrager while hes trying to pull the men up. Bloodrager succeeds his Strength check to hold onto the men while taking damage but fails his check on his turn to pull them up, dropping them into the water. His second action is spent diving for them while leaving most of the coil of rope he has at the top of the cliff, 50 ft, 35 ft drop. Party above holds their own against the Warhounders and eventually finishes them off. Bloodrager is still going strong underwater and breaks one of the men's chains. He ties his rope to one of their chains and the party hauls everyone up together. Bloodrager ran out of rage underwater but his Heart of the Fields kept him from being fatigued. The Shaman channels energy healing everyone for 5.

Encounter 2:
The signal has been lit and the Pathfinders rush to the Granary.

The Bloodrager remains a capable combatant even without his rage. No one takes the time to fiddle with the hatches. The Investigator is crit but healed by the Shaman with a Cure Light for 9. The creatures DR surprises some of the Party but luckily everyone has daggers and the Bloodrager and Shaman's main weapons pierce their DR. Encounter was defeated fairly handedly.

Encounter 3: Minor Spoilers
The Safes. Not much to say here, the Investigator handled them, handedly. He failed his will save on the The Smooth Stone chest and left it alone. The Bloodrager was unconvinced and saved.

The last Chest was a bit of hilarity as no one had the required skills to uncover it's secrets. A good question that I thought up is: when the Investigator gets Keen Recollection, does it count as Bardic Knowledge for information thats revealed for that? I would say yes, since they're essentially the same ability, but clarification would be nice. The Bloodrager took 30 minutes before blowing into the holes and I allowed him to make a perform check reflexively to discover it was some sort of musical stanza on the box. Perform checks can be made untrained I found out. He succeeds and the chest is eventually unlocked.

Encounter 4: Spoilers
Honestly I didn't see how the players could lose this encounter. 15 consecutive rounds of silence without someone playing a key that the enemies are not blocking? Anyways.

Fun encounter. Lots of running around. Eventually the enemies got whittled down. The dwarf sorta flopped all over the keys. Had difficulty making the acrobatics checks in Scale Mail.

Encounter 5:
The Pathfinders hunt down Nessian after resting in an Inn. No more time constraints!

The Slayer shows off some stealth and sniping goodness. The Bloodrager smashes through the rest, one shotting Marrow Chomper and Nessian. We take him alive and see to it hes hanged for his crimes.

All in all things went alot better than our first run. The Shaman having Channel Energy this time around made things MUUUUUCH less scary. However its still difficult to see how each class fairs exactly. I'll be bumping everyone to 5th and see how they fair in Dawn of the Scarlet Sun!

Stay tuned folks.


Okay dokey. My friend and I rolled up some ACG characters and ran through one of the Society Scenarios. He controlled 2 and I controlled 2 and DMed the Scenario. We rolled 4d6 drop the lowest.
Our Party consisted of 4 1st level characters...

Bloodrager
Investigator
Shaman
Slayer

The first issue we ran into of course was healing. Our shaman couldn't really keep up(Lore Shaman) and the Scenario was a bit of an on the clock run. My Investigator really wasn't hurt much at all with 9 out of 11 hit points by the end of the Scenario.

So first of all, the Bloodrager is awesome. He's incredibly flavorful, thematic, awe inspiring, crazy cool. My friend rolled up an Infernal Bloodline Bloodrager and he had a blast. He had a problem in one part when the Sahuagin flipped our boat because he couldn't make the swim checks. Other than that he had a hair raising moment with the Pirate Du Moire at the end which ended with him collapsing after his Bloodrage.

The Investigator handled many a situation well with Inspiration continually proving to be a very cool mechanic. That said we could really use some Extra Inspiration Pool feat or something. No real complaints here. I probably should have put his 18 in Dex or Str so he could actually contribute more in melee but oh well.

Our Shaman was built to take advantage of the Lore abilities later in her Career. She came ready with 2 healing spells and her last slot was somewhat wasted as there was hardly an opportunity to cast it. I built her a little MAD with her high scores going into Wis, Int and Cha. She had a good Con by virtue of being a Dwarf but her STR and DEX were 10s. Its plain that the Shaman won't replace the Cleric as a healer without spontaneous cure spells. She did not survive the Scenario. The Sahuagin knocked her unconscious underwater and she drowned.

The Slayer did quite well. My friend built him to be a ranged combatant and a ranged combatant he was. No real complaints or problems here. He scouted ahead a few times and made his balance check against a nasty fall.

Overall we did okay. After defeating Du Moire we waited for the various authorities to arrive. I didn't feel right running the final encounter of the Scenario as we were already a party member down and we were all out of resources.

Next I'm going to run Second Darkness and make my friends play some of the ACG classes.


22 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Are Attribute Bonuses(Str, Dex, Con, Int Wis, Cha) typed bonuses?

When I make a combat maneuver check do I recalculate my CMB to add any situational modifiers? I.E If I have Fury's Fall do I add my Dexterity Bonus after I've totaled my CMB or before? Or if I have Improved Trip do I add the +2 before or after I total my CMB?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

How exactly does it work with Touch of Rage from the Orc Bloodline if I picked it up through Eldritch Heritage for my Barbarian?


Hey there! I'm playing a Goblin Fire Bomber Alchemist and it's been a blast. *snicker*

Anyways, I was looking for some interesting ideas to take my character and possible cool magic items to pursue. I'm hunting for concepts as well so feel free to post cool ideas that an alchemist might pursue.

My current feats are Fire Tamer, Flame Heart, Master Alchemist. I was looking into grabbing point blank shot at 7th and at 9th Rapid shot for when I got Fast Bombs at 8th.

My current discoveries are Scrap Bomb and Infusion. 8th I'm grabbing Fast Bombs.

Also if I roll a 20 on an attack roll for my thrown splash weapon, do I multiply the damage? Because I did some insane damage in my session tonight like that. 8d6+18 +8 Dmg from Fire Bomber and +10 Dmg from my Int.


So I'm fiddling with some magic item thoughts and it came up to me.

A continuous use/activated Enlarge Person item wouldn't even cost alot. Like 6000 GP for this crazy item following the guidelines. Is there a more reasonable method of determining cost?

I'm also looking for magic items to help a potential grappler.


Is there a whole lot of point in playing a Universalist Wizard when you get so many more benefits from specializing then grabbing Opposition Research at 9th? Because playing a Specialist Wizard with only the Divination school forbidden is pretty awesome.


Basically I'm taking a page from that cool crossblooded blaster sorc/wizard thread and using it for something else.

Holy Word baby.

This cleric grabs Spell Focus Evocation then Mage's Tattoo Evocation. Spell Specialization comes next and we can make use of it well enough with Searing Light for awhile. We fill in the blanks with some metamagic, Extend, Enlarge, Heighten, maybe Intensify if we can work it in.

We'll switch to Cold Ice Strike because it is a crazy awesome spell.

Then when we finally get Holy Word.

Our effective Caster Level is 3 higher than normal so against a good deal of enemies we'll blind and deafen them. Two more levels and we get Spell Perfection and kick it up to 6 higher than normal. Now the majority of enemies are blinded and deafened and sometimes if we're fighting mooks we'll paralyze them too. We also get to tack on a free enlarge we grabbed earlier.

Kinda cool right? Level 15 we throw out CL 21 Holy Words. Plus a free banishment effect.

Spell Resistance is easy to pierce with the CL upgrades and even if they save, they're still blinded for 1d4 rounds or paralyzed for 1 round.


So basically I'm trying to maximize my Eidolon's strength.
20th Level Eidolon

Biped 16 Str Base
+8 Str/Dex Bonus
+3 Str from Increase Ability Score from Eidolon HD
+8 Str from taking Ability Increase at 1st, 6th, 12th and 18th
+16 from being Huge Evolution
-----
51 Str Total

Now my question is if I can bump it further by giving it a Belt of Physical Perfection +6 and possibly giving it a Manual of Bodily Exercise +5.

Im fairly certain the belt works, but can I give it the manual?


Can a 7th level Paladin, who takes Greater Mercy at 3rd, Extra LoH at 5th, and Ultimate Mercy at 7th, with a 20 Charisma, totally raise the dead?


Do Mithril armors include the masterwork bonus reduction to armor check penalty? I checked the entry on special substances and it doesn't say anything about it.


Say I've got a rogue and he throws on a Mithril Breastplate. Does he get any sort of penalty for not being proficient in it? The armor check penalty is 0 from the -1 from being masterwork and the -3 for being mithril.


Divine Source: It states that you select two domains that must match your alignment. Except later you gain more domains and subdomains? Do you eventually get to select other ones than "Good" for a NG Cleric?


Hi there, big fan first time poster. I started playing pathfinder right when the game came out with Rise of the Runelords and have played fairly regularly since, so I was interested about a PFS game going on at my local rpg store. Now unless Im crazy, I was pretty sure you could crit constructs since the change from 3.5. My critical threat seemed to have been met with frowns and denial. They told me that Constructs were objects and that they were immune to critical hits. Now, I HAVE the 3.5 conversion guide pdf to pathfinder and it explicitly states there that you can crit constructs, but I was wondering if there was any other texts I could cite.