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I know this cannot be answered in absolutes but I would like to know if any of the developers can tell me/us how much more stuff is going to be in the final draft of the book. One of my players main concerns is that there just isn't enough in the playtest to Warren switching to the new system. I said it's impossible to cram 10 years of content into a single playtest book but his point is valid. So I have this question.

How much more will we see in regards to Ancestry, Skill, and Class Feats as well as Backgrounds, Archetypes, Prestige Classes and Spells?

25% more? 50%?

I know this cannot be answered right now as we have 2 months+ of playtest left but just in a general ballpark how much more will be included?

To everyone in the forums how much more would you like included? I would like the following,

Ancestry/Heritage Feats: Maybe about 4 more per Ancestry. Whether that's 1 heritage and 3 Ancestry or 2 and 2 I don't really mind. About 4 more seems good.

Skill Feats: I honestly think there should be a LOT more skill feats. Like double what we have now. Really let our characters flesh out our skills. I love the new system but it's just not beefy enough.

Class Feats: I'm not sure how many more I would like. Maybe 2 extra every time a class feat is gained. That seems okay.

Backgrounds: I am actually quite happy with the current backgrounds so maybe add like 4 or 5 more. I'm not quite sure.

Archetypes/Prestige: This is something I hope there is a whole chapter of the book dedicated too. I want at least a dozen Archetypes (not including the basic Class Archetypes) and maybe 4 to 6 prestige classes.

Spells: I think some more "cool" spells need to be added. I don't have a specific number but throw some cool new spells in there. Really make this edition your own.

What do you guys want to see in the core rulebook upon release?


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Okay when I first looked at the new DC table I was like okay whatever as they were relatively the same. But then I started looking at the new skill checks for Mirrored Moon and I was like dude c'mon.

Every Hex has a DC 30 Perception or DC 27 Survival base?? Why??

Only 3 classes have master perception at that level and none of them (Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue) have any reason to have more then +2 MAYBE +3 Wis. So even with a +2 Item bonus that means they would generally have a +15 or so Perception. That's only a 25% chance to find anything after 2 DAYS of searching?? Now Granted the Survival check is a little more doable but 27? Why are these checks so high?

There's not a single important check that's lower than 25. That's just not okay.

I mean yeah someone could roll a 20 but these just seem way to high for no reason. Was this intended?


Like the title suggests do attack spells that go off saves incur MAP? Like if a character shoots a bow for his first attack and attacks with Electric Arc on his second what penalties are applied to Electric Arc?


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Are Lances 2 handed even when on a mount? They are usually held with 1 hand and a shield in the other, bracing the weapon against the mount. If I remember in P1E it worked that way, is it the same in P2E?


Do Animal Companion actions have to be consecutive?

As in I use an Action to command them, they get 2 actions they have to use right now, then I get my remaining 2 actions.

Or.

I use an action to command them, they get 2 actions but use 1. Then I use 1. Then we both use our last actions.

I see no rule that says they have to be consecutive only that they be on your turn.


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So I've seen quite a few people complain about the same level coin flip problem. That you generally only have a 50% chance to succeed against same level enemies or hazards. For the life of me I just didn't see how this was a bad thing. Being able to hit 5/10 times against something that is a threat (even a trivial one) to a party of 4 isn't a bad thing. Yet people still say it's a major problem that needs fixing. Well I decided to take a look at the Doomsday Dawn Adventures and see just how many times you'd actually be at a coin flip or less. The results may shock you lol.

I put the results in spoilers in case people don't want to see what type of threats they are facing.

A Lost Star (Level 1 Party):

Lvl 0 - 20
Lvl 1 - 7
Lvl 2 - 1
Lvl 3 - 1

20 Below level and 9 at or above level

In Pale Mountain's Shadow (Level 4 Party):

Lvl 1 - 2
Lvl 2 - 7
Lvl 3 - 12
Lvl 4 - 2
Lvl 5 - 3
Lvl 6 - 1
21 below level and 6 at or above level

Affair at Somberfell Hall (Level 7 Party):

Lvl 0 - 6
Lvl 3 - 9
Lvl 4 - 8
Lvl 5 - 1
Lvl 7 - 2
Lvl 9 - 1
24 below level and 3 at or above level

The Mirrored Moon (Level 9 Party):

Lvl 4 - 1
Lvl 5 - 6
Lvl 6 - 11
Lvl 7 - 1
Lvl 8 - 9
Lvl 9 - 3
Lvl 10 - 3
Lvl 12 - 1
Lvl 21 - 1
28 below level and 8 at or above level

So what do these findings prove? Well I think it shows that your chances of the Coin Flip are VERY unlikely if your GM designs his game world around what's happening and not simply what level you are. The amount of times you face threats that are lower level than you is overwhelming. Which means in running the game the way its SUPPOSED to be run the coin flip (or less) will only come up in the dire circumstances where you're facing hard odds. Which makes getting in that 50% range all that more satisfying I think.

I also believe that this comes from a problem that encounters seem to be designed a little differently than the previous edition and nobody was told so. Before a solo monster of your level was a joke. A single well made character had pretty good chances of taking it down solo, so that means even though it said CL 14 and your parties APL was 14 that doesn't actually mean it was a threat to your party. Now a CL 14 monster or Hazard is actually a problem for a GROUP of adventures but still something that can be overcome. That's a very different mentality on how the party tackles encounters and I think the data from the Doomsday Dawn Adventures support that.


As the thread subject says do these items allow you to carry more items, just stored away? Or do the items in the bag still count toward your carry weight?

I used to believe they did but in another post someone mentioned that they do not and now I'm inclined to believe them.

If they in fact do not do you think that they should? To me it makes sense that a backpack/sack/satchel would make the items inside easier to carry. Maybe reduce the Bulk of an item in a backpack by half or from 1 Bulk to L and L to negligible.

What do you guys think?


Same as with the Alchemist. I'm just posting them in separate threads so they can be talked about individually.

1. It seems strange that the Animal Totem would not let them use weapons but they are free to use armor? Maybe give them expert training in unarmored and not allow them to use armor when selecting that totem? Probably make it scale like the monks. That would seem to suit the flavor of the Totem. I understand they can get Animal Skin at lvl 6 but that's a long ways away.

2. Do Titan Mauer Weapons go up a die damage or do they just double your rage bonus? Cause I feel they should do more damage even outside of raging. They are bigger and should do more base damage. Some clarification would be nice.

3. The Barbarian gets no range attack abilities, save for Spirit's Wrath. Even if it was just for thrown weapons that would be a welcome addition. Something like this would be cool;

Power Throw [[A]] [[A]]
While Raging you hurl a weapon with all your might. If the strike hits you deal an additional dice of damage and add your rage bonus to damage in addition to your Str modifier.

4. Giants Stature needs some further info. Does it work like the Enlarge Spell? Do you get an additional +2 to damage while large? And then +4 for being huge? Also do your even larger weapons do anything else? Does it double your rage modifier to damage again? Or is the only benefit the extra reach?

5. The Dragon Totem Breath should be more usable. Once an hour is very harsh. Maybe increase it's action count to 3 and make it usable once per Rage? I know this has been talked about in the podcasts but I felt like leaving it in.

6. Why is Spirit's Interference only against Range Attacks? It seems that it should be against all attacks. Do the Spirits just not like flying things?

7. Animal Rage doesn't seem very helpful. For such a serious transformation it doesn't really do much except give you scent. Maybe some rework to actually make it useful and not just flavorful. Unless I'm mistaken and I missed something.

8. Giants Lunge seems out of place as a 14th lvl ability. I understand it gives you reach without having to transform into large or huge but it seems at a very odd level. Cause by that time you would normally have all those other abilities so would you just retrain them away? Seems strange.

9. Knockback is just not good. I understand you basically get a free shove but how often is that going to come up in combat as being helpful? I might understand if Knockback was a lower level Class Feat because for a lvl 10 Feat it seems very underwhelming. It just seems like a feat tax for Awesome Blow which is a really cool feat, send them flying and landing on their a**. Maybe change Knockback to Knockdown and give them a free trip? That seems much better.

10. I'm not sure Barbarians are doing enough damage compared to other classes considering they are the "hit things really hard" class. They don't really get bonuses to hit (or penalty reduction) so they'll be missing more often than Fighters or Rangers and even when they do hit they only do 2 to 4 more damage up until lvl 11? You could probably double the rage bonus to damage, or maybe just make it scale higher, and that would probably even it out a little more. Maybe something like;

1st & 2nd +2
3rd - 6th +4
7th - 10th +6
11th - 14th +8
15th - 18th +10
19th - 20th +12

This would make the Barbarians hits much more powerful but they still miss more often and crit even less. Yes it would make the Barbarians crit VERY powerful but isn't that the point of the Barbarian? Hitting things really hard?


Here are some things I think could improve the Alchemist as well as things that pertain to it. These aren't in any specific order, I just wrote them down as I looked at the class again to give my thoughts.

If I'm mistaken about anything or overlooking anything please let me know. If anyone has anything to add please feel free.

1. Low level Alchemists are very bad. If you do anything except max your intelligence and dexterity and take Quick Bomber you're basically going to be the weakest character in the group and even then your options are VERY limited. Assuming the Lost Star adventure is a normal indication of how many fights a party would get into that means it could be anywhere from 4 to 7 encounters in one adventure. That means the alchemist would need to have 8 to 14 bombs at first level in order to be able to use 2 of them in each of those encounters. You might say "well casters don't have that many 1st lvl spells" while that is true casters also have at will cantrips which some are pretty much guaranteed to cause damage, even if it's only half a d6. Alchemists on the other hand will only have anywhere from 4 to 5 resonance (barring being a human and getting Remarkable Resonance at 1st lvl). That means if you only make bombs, which kind of defeats the purpose of having other alchemical items, you can have 8 to 10 but that means no healing, no tangle foot bags and no cheetahs elixir. So the more you want of these items the less useful you are in combat. Which I can understand if they wanted the bombs to be similar to the casters spells but again Alchemists don't get cantrips. So once they run out of bombs they become useless.

I suggest adding either more resonance to use on bombs, allow full batches with Advanced Alchemy or something that gives them a type of cantrip ability, like this;

Junk Bomb
Every time you make a batch of bombs during your Daily Preparations you have enough salvageable materials to make 2 Junk Bombs. Junk Bombs do 1d4 damage and have 1 splash (the damage caused by the junk bomb is the same as the base bomb, so in making a Batch of Alchemist's Fire you would end up with two Junk Bombs that do 1d4 fire damage and 1 splash fire damage). Their damages scales with your Empower Bombs ability.

Something along those lines would give the alchemist a sort of cantrip type ability that would really help their longevity as a class.

2. The Alchemist has no melee option whatsoever (other than poison) until they get mutagins at lvl 5. It would be cool to have something that maybe makes your sword flaming or acidic for 2 rounds. That way if an Alchemist wanted to melee there would be the option other than going all Mr. Hyde (which is awesome but still)

3. The fact that a poison is wasted on a miss is pretty harsh. You have to take 1 whole round applying it (unless applying it before combat) and then one bad roll and it's just gone? I think it should just be wasted on a crit failure. It would make them much more appealing I think.

4. All 1st level feats except Quick Bomber aren't that great. Alchemical Familiar has no rules for its use with an Alchemist and can't actually help you, it's basically flavorful. Alchemical Savant is nice but compared to being able to draw 2 bombs in one action it's hardly worth getting. Far Lobber only increases the distance by 10 feet which is not comparable to being able to throw 2 bombs in 1 round. Smoke Bomb is.... I don't want to say useless but it basically is, especially at low levels where you would again feel the need to throw more bombs because all of your other options are terrible, bad ranged and bad melee. I understand that you get to have 2 of these because of the 1st and 2nd lvl class feats but again some more variety would be nice.

5. Quick Alchemy in its current form needs work. I've been making an Alchemist from lvl 1 to lvl 10 and putting them against random monsters to see how they do combat wise. It was ALWAYS better to get 2 bombs/elixirs from your daily prep instead of having the flexibility of Quick Alchemy. With the current state of things you would possibly only save 1 resonance for Quick Alchemy and then just try your luck on overspending. It is a lot more useful by the time your level 9 but it's kind of late for that ability.

6. Making the Elixirs still cost Resonance points to use for other party members (after you've already spent RP to create them) doesn't make sense. This makes the Alchemists not even able to be the parties discount Cleric which would have been really nice. Having two different classes that could give Resonance Free Healing would have made the Alchemist more appealing I think.

* Also making Alchemical Items not cost Resonance at all could possibly be an idea. Elixirs of Life aren't as good as Potions of Healing, and they are generally higher lvl, so they won't be as accessible but still a viable option for a non caster party as a means to heal themselves. Some tweaking and maybe adding in a way to get Alchemical Crafting at lvl 1 would be a must. Maybe creating a background that gives it to you? I think this is a smart option as a non caster party is going to be a death wish.

7. Remarkable Resonance should go off your Resonance ability score and not just Cha. Dwarf Alchemists will have a really hard time getting that feat and it's basically a no brainer for Alchemists.

8. Two of the four Alchemists feats at lvl 4 are, again, not great. Being able to make 8 regular items in a batch during your downtime or being able have your Int modifier to your splash damage are WAAAY better options then poison resistance or having your Quick Alchemy item last for 1 more turn. More options please.

9. Combine Elixirs is cool but the RP cost is too heavy. Finding a way to make it not cost so much but still do relatively the same thing would be ideal.

10. Tricky Tinkerer does not seem like an 8th lvl ability, a 4th lvl one more like.

11. Having the Alchemical Items listed by type and then alphabetically in each one would be very helpful.

12. Being the only class Trained in Alchemical Bombs their proficiency with them never goes up. They only get an item bonus at 15th level when using empowered bombs, which also seems really late. I get that they throw against TAC but even spellcasters proficiency goes up. It just seems strange to omit.

All in all the Alchemist just seems to need some low level balancing as they seem to even out at higher lvls. Not needing to spend money (and RP) on magic weapons helps with the RP overload but they still seem to be pretty stretched even at higher levels


Under the Efficient Alchemy feat it specifically says that items made during Downtime with the Craft Alchemy Skill can be made in double batches. And it says in the Craft Alchemy Skill that alchemical items with the consumable trait come in batches of 4. Elixirs have the consumable trait. So that means in downtime you could make 4 elixirs at the same time but with advanced Alchemy you could make 8, correct?

It also never says how much a batch is for any other items. Does that mean you can only create 1 bomb of your lvl in 4 days? That doesn't seem right.


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(I'm not waiting to post this until after we've finished the dungeon because we won't be able to game next week so we'll have to finish up in two weeks. That way I figured I could share what's happened so far in my adventure and then put the second half after we finish)

Okay I ran my first session of Pathfinder 2nd Edition yesterday. We played for 4 hours but in all honesty we probably played for 3 (my group always has a hard time staying focused, not in a bad way though). We made about half of the way through the Ashen Ossuary in that amount of time. (Again this was expected as we generally like to talk and then bring up hypothetical scenarios and joke around and all that). I'll give my overall opinion of the system as a whole and then I'll go room by room and be more specific but first the characters they made. Oh and I know they were supposed to pick one of the backgrounds from the playtest for this module but they had already made their characters before I knew about that so I didn't force them to change it.

THE PLAYERS

Half-Orc (Dragon Totem) Barbarian (Gladiator Background):

Wanted to use Dual Chain Blades ala Kratos from God of War but we settled on using the stats for a Spiked Chain and just calling it a Chain Blade. He was pretty happy with it. He went with Intimidating Glare and Raging Intimidation but he didn't rage once all game, apparently he didn't need to lol. He really liked the Dragon Totem so he picked that but it didn't really come up in game other then making a few dragon jokes here and there. He had the highest AC of the group with 16 base. I don't think he was ever crit the whole game.

Gnome (Illusionist) Wizard (Scholar Background):

Basically he was an Illusionist. He mostly took a lot of utility spells but the at will attack cantrips helped a lot. They were his go to attacks all game. He mage armored as soon as he got into the dungeon so his AC was at 13 but he didn't get hit all that much because he was in the back. It could have been 14 pretty much every round but he seemed to have forgotten about Shield, which is very helpful at low levels. Like I said he was a standard utility mage.

Human Cleric (Cleric of Gorum) (Acolyte Background):

He decided to go "Battle Cleric" and specked most of his stuff into weapons and wielded a greatsword into battle. He was honestly the MVP of the group, consistently doing the same damage as the barbarian and throwing out his 5 free Heals a day. His AC was sitting at 15 but he actually remembered to shield almost every round so it was basically 16.

Human Alchemist (Barkeep Background):

Looking at his character build he went for a bomb throwing alchemist and had tons of resonance points, 6 I believe. He had Acid Flask, Minor Elixir of Life, Giant Centipede Venom and Alchemist's Fire. BUT he thought it would be funny to make himself really fat and not dexterous and purposefully gave himself a -2 to dex and apparently just forgot to add 1 of his ability boosts. So he was sitting at 10 Str and Dex. So right from the get go there were problems. More on that below.

THE GOOD
I can honestly say I LOVE the new action economy. It meant I could very easily just be like "Yeah doing that costs 1 action" and my players didn't even blink an eye because they knew they could still either move and attack or attack twice. Where as before actions were so important that taking 1 away was very bad and usually led to arguments or people just ignoring doing other things in battle because it was better to just use all of your actions to attack.

Also having done A LOT of prep I didn't feel at all confused. Looking up the monsters and their abilities and making sure I knew what conditions they could impart on my players, as well as how poison worked, I felt fully prepared every time they had a question. I think I only had to look through the book like twice in the session. So everything flowed really well. To be fair though I work night shift and have a lot of free time so I've just been pouring over the rulebook and the forums for the past week preparing for the session. Nothing seemed overly strong or weak compared to the last edition which was good.

I didn't realize how much I would like the new secret rolls for stealth and things like that. It makes combat flow so much easier and adds a sense of alertness when you never really know if somethings there as I don't yell out "okay everyone roll perception" and they automatically know there's something there. I can just roll it's stealth against their perception DC. And then if the players DECIDE to actively search for things they get to roll against it's Stealth DC. It's very fluid and I like it a lot.

The crit system is very swingy but I think it gives a sense of danger into the game that wasn't really there before. Now even little goblins can do some serious damage to the players on a crit. But the same goes for the players. Very good addition I think.

Poison is GOOD finally. I always felt poison was such an under utilized thing in P1E and I'm so glad it's made an epic comeback in this edition. Poison actually helps instead of just being there.

THE MEH
The skill system honestly didn't feel any different from last edition BUT they were only lvl 1. The Barbarian seemed to be the least skilled and the Wizard seemed the most, which would be generally true in the last edition cause of Wizards high Int. The Alchemist was really only helpful once in using Medicine. Oddly enough the Cleric was the most useful skill wise, having Medicine, Religion and not terrible Perception. I believe having most of the melee focused skills in Athletics will help out in the long run but I'm not sure my players knew about them (as they were usually forgotten about in P1E unless you specked in them)

The new initiative system, while not bad, is not very clear on what else you can roll for initiative. I basically had only Stealth being used (for the monsters) and I tried to think of some other things that the players could do but I came up short so we usually just rolled Perception. A table with some hints would be nice that I could reference and the players could look at.

THE BAD
I don't like that there isn't a surprise round (or something to replace it) at all. I had the monster "sneak up" on the players and go last, or almost last, so its sneaking just basically made it really close to them so they could get stomped on. I would say if you initiate combat after successfully using stealth you should be the top of initiative order no matter everyone else's rolls. That seems to be more along the lines of how this edition should work after taking out the surprise round.

How light sources interact with Perception and senses isn't exactly clear so I had to wing it and I think that made it easier for my players to sneak up on the Goblins in room A2. They surrounded the Goblins and stomped them into the floor. On that note Low-light and how it works is also not clear so I have to wing that as well.

Here's my opinion on the characters and how they did in the session.

THE BARBARIAN:

The Barbarian seemed to do exactly what I expected him to do. He was a powerhouse basically all game, even only doing d8+4 damage. He consistently crit several times doing more than enough to kill most of the enemies they had fought so far in one shot. He was also the one who found the Owlbear Claw in A2. As matter of fact he was the most perceptive of the group, despite only having a +2. He also intimidated one of the Goblins outside of combat after it was trying to flee for it's life .

THE WIZARD:

The Wizard seemed to be less useless in this edition then last edition (at low lvl anyway). Attack at will cantrips really helped with their staying power allowing them to do damage but not out damage the Barbarian (or Battle Cleric). He made a few knowledge rolls and was generally around the Barbarian in terms of usefulness. He didn't actually use his other lvl 1 spell yet, I assume saving it for Drakus, but being an Illusionist I'm not sure exactly what he prepped anyway so we'll have to see.

THE CLERIC:

Oh boy here we go. Okay the Cleric seems awesome. He get's anywhere from 3-6 FREE heals a day, leaving him open to actually prep his other spells for something else. Which is exactly what he did. He went on a full Greatsword swinging rampage. He was basically attacking and casting shield for that AC bump or double attacking and casting shield. He also used his Zeal (Weapon Surge) ability against a Quasit and stomped it's face. He was essentially doing as much damage as the Barbarian, if not more (but that's probably because the Barbarian wasn't raging)

THE ALCHEMIST:

Okay knowing now that there was confusion about how his powers worked and seeing how he forgot one of his stat bonuses I can honestly say he wasn't THAT bad considering he didn't make/play his character build right. So in the first two rooms he did just fine, since he didn't get to go at all against the ooze and he lit one of the goblins on fire in the second room. After that though he just stopped using his bombs. I even told him at the beginning that he could make more items since they had 7 days (as he can make a batch in 4 days) but he decided not to cause of the 4 I gave him at first lvl. So he had 6 items to start off with, 4 from character creation and 2 that he prepped. (I said it made sense for him to have 1 of each of his formula on him at character creation since it didn't seem to make sense to me that he would have to use half of his resonance to have more than a few in his beginning adventure.) But after after lobbing 2 and missing with 1 he said he realized that he was going to run out of bombs really quick (cause he misunderstood quick alchemy). So he proceeded to punch most of the creatures either missing or rolling 1 damage. So hopefully we'll have a better time of it next session with all the confusion over.

Okay so here's room by room the jist of what went down.

A1. Slimy Cistern:

Okay so we started the characters off in the entrance of the dungeon and I made a secret roll for the oozes stealth. It rolled really well, getting about a 20+. So the player's didn't passively see it walking in. I figured cause it was an ooze and was made of sewer that it could hide within the gross mucky water and would attack any of the players that came within 10 feet. The players moved forward but per the rules we rolled initiative and the ooze got dead last, even with it's +6 stealth from being in a sewer. So the party stomped on it before it got to act.

A2. Mudchewer Central:

The players move into the room and as they cast light earlier on their weapons two of them had 20 foot beacons of light. The rule on low-light are iffy (as I mentioned above) so I assume that the light is bright within 20ft and the low-light extends as far out as reasonable. Because the Goblins were on the far side of the room and they were building their statue I figured they would be to distracted to just straight up notice the light on the far side of the room so I had them roll Perception. Big fat 3. The goblins are completely oblivious to the party, even with the light. So Goblins, naturally making a racket and not being quiet unless they need to, were making enough noise that I had the players roll Perception and based the DC at 12, all of them made it. So the party moved up about half way toward the goblins before I figured that the Goblins would notice the light so I had them roll Initiative. Goblins go second to last. They get flanked and one of them drops immediately, two others badly injured. The goblins pull their weapons and attack twice, doing barely any damage, like 2 and 3 maybe, and all missed with their second attack. The Alchemist goes last and lights one on fire. Second Goblin down. Top of the order the Wizard kills one with Electric Arc and heavily wounds the other one. At that point I say the Goblin gives up and tries to surrender, pleading for it's life. They can't speak it's language so they end up hogtying it up and hope that once Drakus is dead it will join up with Talga and be a nice little goblin lol.

A3. Vermin Den:

The players actually went from rooms A5 and A4 first and this one last but I'll put it first since it's number 3. Okay so the the book says there's enough rubble for it to be difficult terrain and I figured that meant there were probably some larger rocks scattered about the chamber. So deeper in the Centipedes were hiding within the rubble. As that makes sense for me since it says they would roll Stealth for Initiative, they would be hiding and have to have something to hide behind or in. I roll their stealth against the players passive Perception as they enter the room and they also get 20+ so the players don't passively see them. I figure the centipedes are in the middle of the room so if the players move farther in they will attack and maybe get some flanking bonuses. The players call out they are actively going to search the room so I have them roll against the Centipedes stealth DC, which is 16 and only 1 makes it, the Cleric. He tells the rest of the party before they can move into the monster's attack range and the party just decides to open up on them from where they are. Roll initiative, Centipedes go second this time. The battle goes better for the monsters as they actually get to move up and attack the party, several of them hit, doing little damage, but they manage to poison the Barbarian. They mop the rest up but the Barbarian takes around 20 damage from the poison and it's first attack, almost bringing him down. Luckily he shook it off last round so it didn't drop him.

A.4 Motivation Room & A.5 Fungus Bloom:

They basically did what was expected in these rooms. Fungus room first they made the saves and then just ignored it. Motivation room they investigated the bodies and found out it wasn't a Vampire that drained their blood. Their idea was that he drank it through a straw, I was like sure yeah lol.

Okay so before they moved into the next room the party searches the large central room, The Barbarian crits and finds the owlbear claw, the ring and the potion. The Cleric uses 2 of his 5 heals, one burst to heal everyone 3 hp and then another to heal the Barbarian to full with Healing Hands.

A.6 Purification Fountain:

The party enters the room. The Alchemist goes to take a sample of the weird black sludge water. I ask him to make a Perception check a and he sees the idol in the Fountain. Doesn't tell anyone else and grabs it immediately. Battle ensues.

This was the longest fight we had but the players weren't in any real danger. The damage the Quasit's were dealing wasn't really enough to threaten them and they all consistently made their save's against their poison. It was only because the Quasit's could heal, and they rolled pretty good throughout the whole thing, that it took as long as it did. After two rounds of them not really doing much I was going to have them change shape into wolves in order to maybe do some more damage but the Barbarian crit and killed one and everyone ganged up in the other before I could do it.

The damage wasn't life threatening but it did give a few of them around 8 or 9 damage. So the most OVERALL of any of the battles so far. After this battle was when we finally asked the Alchemist why he wasn't throwing any bombs and found out he thought his power worked different then it actually did.

So there yah go. That was basically how it all went down. We stopped there because it was getting late and they had work in the morning.

I asked them overall what they thought of the system and all of them approved. Even the Alchemist was saying that he was rolling garbage all night and he didn't understand how his abilities worked and did his character wrong.


If you choose to put one of your trained skills into a signature skill at first level does it become Expert?


Hello to all. I need help with a question for the Lycanthrope PC class rating. The book says that its the "Same as base creature or base animal (whichever is higher) +1" simple right? But only if you pick an animal with a CR 1 or 2, at least thats what I've found. I was looking to make a Dire Wolf Lycanthrope, frankly cause its cooler, and found the CR of the Dire Wolf to be 3. So that means I would have a CR 4 (which as per the rules in playing a "powerful race" I would have 4 effective class levels. Looking at the Lycanthropes bonus I find this hardly to be worth 4 class levels. Heres what I would get for "4 class levels"

- No extra hit dice, so no BAB, saves or skill ranks for 4 levels
- +7 Str, +5 Con, only in animal or hybrid forms, because you take which ever stat is higher, your own or the base animals. Also +2 Wis and -2 Cha in all forms.
- +5 nat armor in animal or hybrid form, BUT this destroys my armor, equipment ect, as I turn large and makes my armor disappear in animal form.
- Dr 10/Silver, again only in animal or Hybrid form.
- Bite that does 1d8 plus strength.

This is all I get for 4 class levels. Now I know the increase to Str and Con seem good but it only raises that high because I'm a dex focused character, if I was a Str focus character it would probably only raise by Str by three and Con by nothing.

Using the Minotaur, as they get 4 class levels as well, heres what they would get
- 6d10 hit points; BAB, saves and skill ranks as well.
- +5 nat armor
- +8 Str and +4 Con
- Gore attack that does 1d6 plus str; Powerful charge does 2d6 plus 1 and half str

I'm curious what you guys think about this. If you could let me know what level you think I should by compared to the party. I'm thinking level 5 but level 4 would probably be more fair. It took a lot of convincing for my DM to even let me play a Lycanthrope and I don't want to get jipped because the rules don't seem right. Any help or comments would be appreciated.