Question about the final content of the 2nd Edition Rulebook


General Discussion


I know this cannot be answered in absolutes but I would like to know if any of the developers can tell me/us how much more stuff is going to be in the final draft of the book. One of my players main concerns is that there just isn't enough in the playtest to Warren switching to the new system. I said it's impossible to cram 10 years of content into a single playtest book but his point is valid. So I have this question.

How much more will we see in regards to Ancestry, Skill, and Class Feats as well as Backgrounds, Archetypes, Prestige Classes and Spells?

25% more? 50%?

I know this cannot be answered right now as we have 2 months+ of playtest left but just in a general ballpark how much more will be included?

To everyone in the forums how much more would you like included? I would like the following,

Ancestry/Heritage Feats: Maybe about 4 more per Ancestry. Whether that's 1 heritage and 3 Ancestry or 2 and 2 I don't really mind. About 4 more seems good.

Skill Feats: I honestly think there should be a LOT more skill feats. Like double what we have now. Really let our characters flesh out our skills. I love the new system but it's just not beefy enough.

Class Feats: I'm not sure how many more I would like. Maybe 2 extra every time a class feat is gained. That seems okay.

Backgrounds: I am actually quite happy with the current backgrounds so maybe add like 4 or 5 more. I'm not quite sure.

Archetypes/Prestige: This is something I hope there is a whole chapter of the book dedicated too. I want at least a dozen Archetypes (not including the basic Class Archetypes) and maybe 4 to 6 prestige classes.

Spells: I think some more "cool" spells need to be added. I don't have a specific number but throw some cool new spells in there. Really make this edition your own.

What do you guys want to see in the core rulebook upon release?

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

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I'm not going into any specifics, but you can safely assume there will be a fair amount of additional content in the final version of the game.


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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I'm not going into any specifics, but you can safely assume there will be a fair amount of additional content in the final version of the game.

Thanks for letting us know!

While obviously a specific number is out, do you guys have a rough idea as to the expected size of the book?
Provided you can say of course.


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I imagine what currently exists is there too give the game's mechanics and interface its basic architecture, and the more flavorful and concept fulfilling options will be fleshed out once the devs can finally get the hang on how design parallelism works with respect to each mechanic. They're still toying with how things are formatted and such.


I'm hoping and expecting that we will see plenty more General Feats, given that we only have one General Feat with a higher level prerequisite than 7. XD


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The core rulebook be around the same size as the current one. Any bigger, and shipping costs become significantly more expensive for the customer. I hope that helps.


I wish every class got 2 more class feats similar to the fighter extra feat. To make a catch up mechanic for people who multiclassed/missed a cool feat just because another one seemed to much better.
But i guess retraining do take care of that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Jason did mention that something like the Grey Maiden prestige archetype will likly nor be in n the core book as it is rather specific, but they put it in the playtest to try it out. Also the formatting of the playtest book was not the most efficient use of space (they made a lot of choices it seems to just get the rules out there, leaf druid was not going to be in originally but got added so make pages equal for each class) and the final book will likly be formatted much better.
My money would put at least a sizable amount of more spells and rituals (some schools are lacking in many higher areas... cough necromancy cough) I expect we will kinda see what rogue had added, multiple specific build styles for some of the martial classes with the Idea that even more willl come in later books, sorcerer will see maybe 2 to 4 more bloodlines (needs another occult one for sure).
Overall I expect anywhere to 25 to 40% more stuff for each class and ancestory, a lot of the spell lists filled in, and more general feats mixed with master and legendary skill feats.


Will there be an electronic (PDF or HTML) version for purchase. I will definitely buy that!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Paizo has released a PDF version of almost every product they've made for the past ten years, even in cases like flip mats where a pdf version is of questionable utility.

I can't imagine they'd stop now. :)


My bet would be, the main focus (hihi, wordplay) is on resolving the resonance/focus point issue, it is after all a very large chunk which currently has deep roots in the system core (items, magic, feats, etc.) unlike any other aspect, that is debated right now.


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Ephialtes wrote:
My bet would be, the main focus (hihi, wordplay) is on resolving the resonance/focus point issue, it is after all a very large chunk which currently has deep roots in the system core (items, magic, feats, etc.) unlike any other aspect, that is debated right now.

I would rather the main focus be on the chassis, not superfluous distractions like resonance. I don't care, at this point (the table can deal with magic items, how we please), I want the actual game to develop.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

At the moment Focus points are part of the main chassis, though, because they are replacing Spell Points.

I'll also mention that I feel like having a good system for magic items built into the core system would be a major appeal of 2e for me, if they get it right.


KATYA OF VARISIAN wrote:
Will there be an electronic (PDF or HTML) version for purchase. I will definitely buy that!

In addition to what MaxAstro said, you can also find most of their content for free through SRD/PRD sources. I believe they are actually partnering with Archives of Nethys as the go-to online resource for PF2.


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MaxAstro wrote:
At the moment Focus points are part of the main chassis, though, because they are replacing Spell Points.

Spell Points are not even close to chassis material. Tacked on, extraneous crapola.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So in 1e, monk ki powers, wizard school powers, sorcerer bloodline powers, cleric domain powers, etc. were also tacked on, extraneous crapola?

EDIT: Put another way, it's clear from their attention that Paizo considers spell points/focus points a core part of the system.

Meaning no offense, I think they have the ability to decide that.


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MaxAstro wrote:
So in 1e, monk ki powers, wizard school powers, sorcerer bloodline powers, cleric domain powers, etc. were also tacked on, extraneous crapola?

Of course not, class features are not tacked on crapola.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

...Is this where I get to call your dismissive response "suspiciously eager, ill-founded and obnoxious barking-garbage"?

Look, I can kinda see where you are coming from. You don't agree with the problem Paizo is trying to address with spell points. I get that. I don't like their current iteration of that address, myself.

But I don't think you get to be the One True Judge of what is and isn't important to 2e. If Paizo feels that spell points are part of the "actual game", that's their call to make, and they pretty clearly do feel that with the amount of dev time they've put on it.


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MaxAstro wrote:
...Is this where I get to call your dismissive response "suspiciously eager, ill-founded and obnoxious barking-garbage"?

No, it's just that Spell Points are not really intrinsic to the system.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The system, or your vision of the system?

Actually you know what? Nevermind. You clearly feel pretty strongly about this, it's off topic for this thread, so I'm gonna drop it.


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MaxAstro wrote:
The system, or your vision of the system?

The system that the people at Paizo are using for the Playtest, so far.

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