Most theorycrafters whom I have read do not like archetypes. Me, my -703 through -706 characters do have archetypes (one Starfinder Forerunner, three Steward Officer). I've toyed with the idea of giving my third soldier Arcanamirium Sage (my second soldier has Skill Focus: Medicine). Do any of your characters use archetypes?
Do your players notice a drop in temperature when you have a slow pressure leak? Do your players horripilate as if from fear when they near a static electricity trap? Do your players sense the awkwardness of a ship's HVAC going dead, or the slowly increasing temperature that will gradually cook them when the waste heat life support dies? Do your players note the glint of the sniper's scope as the sniper tries to reposition (with a -20 to their Stealth DC)? It could be a spectrum:
Myself, I tend to wander around #4, #5, and #6 (I think).
Also --
For that matter, I could see Dr. Hesselius himself (from Le Fanu's stories) as a member of an adventurer's society or league like that of the Pathfinders or Starfinders.
Two novels that I really like that make use of the Lovecraftian Mythos while addressing certain aspects of HPL's racism are Victor Lavalle's The Ballad Of Black Tom and Matt Ruff's Lovecraft Country. One would also be foolish to say that neither of those novels have evil folk and eldritch horrors. Mind, I am no giant HPL fan....
BigNorseWolf wrote: Not sure how this would work in an AP. Even after murdermart WBL tends to be low and spending cash seems really tight. True. Though in a campaign AP a crafting Mystic or Technomancer might argue for the "reduce to UPBs, then craft spell gems" route.Edit:
Seconded on spell gem utility.
BNW posed the interesting question about fusions and grenades over a year ago, but I'll ignore that for the moment as I propose a thought experiment. Imagine a Shock Grenade, Mk 2 (650 Cr) with a Spellthrower Fusion (340 Cr) holding a Supercharge Weapon spell gem (140 Cr) for a total of 1130 Cr. It's expensive and takes a full round action plus a standard action to throw, but the damage (though not the DC) is roughly equivalent to a 5,380 Credit Shock Grenade, Mk 3. And you can buy four of them at level 4 for less than a single level 10 Mk 3 (if your character is richer than mine!). Not bad!
Anyhow, I think the proper etiquette varies by situation and that there's latitude for a lot of variation. And I think aspects of the game design reflect that (mind, my last published RPG game design credit was a quarter century ago, and I don't know the good folk at Paizo -- I just like to buy and play their stuff). So, even though this is a general settings discussion, I'll quote RAW below to show ways that dress affects NPC interactions. Note that at least one Starfinder Society encounter rewards players for fitting into the crowd as well, though I won't mention the quest or scenario. Manufacturers - AbadarCorp
Clothing, Party
Clothing, Formal
/thinks
Lemme find his bio:
He had both street clothing and formal wear and Second Skin, and carried a sidearm instead of his scattergun and AbadarCorp spellthrower squad machine gun on the streets of Eox, but geared up when he went to the wild. He didn't bother to pick up an heavy armor until we ran across some Golemforged Plating III during play. But I am probably playing him, and Starfinder, wrong. :D (I'm former military -- I have trouble playing a soldier who doesn't keep his heavier gear in the armory except when deployed... or who doesn't carry his full kit when he is!)
Pantshandshake --
Mr. Johnson lives. ;) (And as I said above a couple of times, the Pact Worlds HAVE been on a war footing for a couple of centuries -- I like SuperBidi's analogy with a modern day country.)
Fun thought:
How many Starfinders will sacrifice that second point of Fame just to avoid an existentialist crisis? :D (EDIT: Since I think some might be reading me amiss, do note I'm not saying that Starfinders shouldn't have at least a holdout. What I am trying to say, and failing at, is that depending on the scenario "Sometimes it's Wild West, sometimes it's James Bond.")
Pantshandshake --
And you're probably right, the old west probably isn't relevant to SF settings like Starfinder or TV's old Firefly series. Though I loved the riff on the latter for "Fugitive on the Red Planet," and played the filk of the Jayne song when I ran it. :D My own characters also wear at least a Second Skin under normal clothes. But do you think the corporate security types of Absalom Station's Blue Tower corporate district in the Ring would not bat an eye at you tromping in wearing power armor for a meeting with an executive? Esp. if you had weaponry that could puncture a pressure wall? That's not the way I usually see people on centuries-old stations acting, and may represent table variation.
Love that AP --
And I think that you're probably on target, Claxon. At least for the parts of the Pact Worlds where Starfinders usually go, thanks to both the Starstone and to two and a half centuries of the Silent War with the Veskarium (which ended less than thirty years ago due to the threat posed by the Swarm). I do think the Stewards will take an interest in players who stomp around Jatembe Park in powered armor. But like you I also think -- as long as Starfinders have a good name in the Pact Worlds -- that local authorities, the Stewards, and local hires of the Skyfire Legion probably won't harass Starfinders who bear sidearms, or weapons that use the AbadarCorp Defender friend-or-foe modifications. (Though that's one of the nice things about certain light armors like Second Skin and Vesk Brigandine -- you can wear them under appropriate garb for black tie events. And I think that some light armors like Clearweave for light armor or Ceremonial Armor for heavy armor are easier to "dress up" for bodyguard events at social galas.)
Claxon wrote:
And some moons like Liavara's Arkanen, too. First to achieve what Liavara didn't -- full Pact World status. :D Though as I pointed out in that same comment, our own real life solar system has over two hundred moons and planets, about a thousand known or suspected dwarf planets (see the frequently updated list by Caltech's Mike Brown, who discovered Eris). And that's not counting almost eight hundred thousand known asteroids and more comets than you can trope together and shake a shtick at! Anyhow --
Several of us are arguing that the setting demands 24/7 Hollywood Wild West 'rulez' for accoutrement (even though carrying a firearm openly in the Old West of our actual history would get you shot dead by law enforcement in more than one city just as fast as carrying a cell phone in some urban zones today -- they were not as lax as we are now). And a lot of our Starfinder adventure paths (e.g., Dead Suns and Against the Aeon Throne) and Starfinder Society scenarios DO take us outside the Pact Worlds, meaning a lot more of that cultural variation. So I think my comment stands about some of us being trapped in modern tropes and suffering an inability to distinguish between the acceptable gun etiquette on Akiton (anything goes, esp. in Arl) and meeting with the green dragon Urvosk on Castrovel (be POLITE, his lawyers are even more chokingly deadly than his breath weapon!). But to each their own, and may you GM in peace. :)
It's already kinda covered in the rules, too. CRB, p. 320 (Legal Clothing, Formal):
In how many terrestrial formal settings are swords and guns appropriate? My ex-wife and I had swords and sabers at our wedding, but it was a military ceremony held off-post at her church; and you'll find guns at some weddings here in the U.S. as well as India, the Balkans, and parts of the Arab world. But many American weddings would bar a guest who was packing. Or at least impose a –4 to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Disguise checks. ;) But --
In my case it's probably just insecurity and inadequacy, dunno about everyone else! :D (*I am assuming an average of 10+ planets and moons per star in their galaxy -- we have about 200 in our real life Sol system here in the Milky Way, plus about a thousand known or suspected dwarf planets at the moment and a whole lotta asteroids and comets.)
Y'know, I hate to keep bringing up another (albeit related) genre... But a lot of the assumptions above assume that the players are not just Bishops and Knights on the chessboard, but that they outpower anybody else. Sure --
But do we REALLY assume that dragons and bone sages are going to put up with stuff that causes more than a blip on their bottom line? Can you imagine what Zo! would do if angry? I mean, all it took to lock out most of the Starfinder Society was a petty, jumped-up godling in the backwater Scoured Stars cluster feeling entitled...
Possible plot twist for Homebrews:
When a local government faces an unexpected threat that they cannot handle and neither the Stewards nor Skyfire Legion are at hand, the Stewards give the players name to the local authorities as "possible contributors to the public good..."
It might be amiss of me to fail to note that armed societies make it easier to infiltrate with armed insurgents. Overly repressive or authoritarian societies, on the other hand, make it easier to recruit via Kilcullen's Accidental Guerrilla cycle. :D Anyhow, with billions of stars in the (missing) Golarion galaxy, I am sure that there's a ton of variation. Myself, I assume that the loose alliance / confederation nature of the Pact Worlds, combined with a couple of centuries on a war footing, leave the Pact Worlds as more lax with open carry (outside of corporate boardrooms, fancy parties, and other places of ostentation), while other solar systems will vary from Firefly levels to Star Trek levels of weapons mores and customs. But that's just MY assumption!
Metaphysician wrote: Starfinder is still a setting where horrible monstrosities wait around potentially every corner... That's why I mentioned how the Starstone's beacon in the Drift can bring many unpleasant callers. Fashion on Absalom Station likely encourages open carry, even though the average Ysoki's life is likely humdrum. (And of course I am minded of the U.S. wild west, where weapon laws were far stricter than the 20th and 21st century because of famous shootouts.) But I am still amused at how many of us insist that things far bigger than a stylish sidearm make for appropriate accoutrements for fine dining. I can see all kinds of heavy armor and weaponry on docking rings or docking levels to protect ships -- I think of the seven not-quite-hostile species of the Compact and C.J. Cherryh's Meetpoint Station. But can you imagine insisting on wearing powered armor into the stylish board room of the High Transarch Urvosk, and all of that green dragon's lawyers, and expecting to get to use Telasia for research? Or, to keep to the draconic theme, trying to bully one of the dragons who are a board member of a corporation on Triaxus? Seems to smack a little of hubris to me. (Or overcompensation. For me, THAT is probably why some of my characters are gun nuts! :D )
More thinking:
Absalom Station beckons like a jewel to a hundred billion other suns in the Pact Worlds' galaxy. Some visitors are rowdy and rambunctious, like the Swarm or the pre-Swarm Veskarium. So maybe sidearms are expected, even in malls and shopping centers. Corporate stations like Brilliance may vary in open carry allowances. As an example, Brilliance hosts Akitonian gladiatorial combat, so the allowances of the Arch Energy Consortium might be lax. Other sovereign space stations like the Idari might be more strict (or law enforcement might allow traditional Kasathan non-range weapons while asking questions about lasers, slug throwers, etc). Planet-side, I bet there could be all kinds of variations -- people wearing Drow livery might carry anything in Nightarch on Apostae, while non-Drow who do not bear house colors might be questioned over anything that wasn't a nonlethal sidearm. Akiton's generally a free-for-all (except for the most exclusive clubs and establishments), including the cities of Arl and Maru, while some of the nations in Verces' ring of nations frown on anything more deadly than a tactical baton. Synthetics and SROs might open carry unquestioned on Aballon, while organic visitors might merit close scrutiny.
Random aside:
Back on topic:
Starfinder Armory (p. 55)
"When you openly carry a Defender weapon, law enforcement officers might react more positively toward you. This response is likely in situations where your weapons are an issue, especially when you carry no other obvious armaments or when you allow an officer to modify the protocol to protect potential targets. The GM can grant you up to a +2 circumstance bonus to checks to interact with law enforcement officers when your carrying a Defender weapon is applicable. This bonus can apply to other characters in similar circumstances, such as the bodyguards of an icon added as friends to your weapon’s protocol."
Magabeus wrote: Ok, this might have been posted here before: What is stopping the people that want more replay options from replaying scenarios OUTSIDE of offical PFS? I myself do. And I am willing to recruit to do so.But, when there are scenarios or modules available, I would rather play and GM with the larger group of friends that are in PFS.
Jack Amy wrote:
I like that idea. Now, I do not expect it to be put into action, nor any other replay options, but I like that idea. I understand that replay concept is anathema to many. And I understand that Paizo can only put out a few scenarios a month. I have made my peace with that. I don't feel that some of the posters realize some of the current consequences though. PFS drove my Paizo purchases far more than private campaigns currently do. Now that I have to skip more than half of our local games because I have played them or because our one active sometimes-Core table outleveled my remaining active Core character, and is also likely to play or do something else -- though we are cutting PFS nights back to about once a week -- the following has been happening:
I don't expect this situation to change, especially as dwindling Pathfinder numbers mean fewer private APs locally. But I do hope that things stay together until we see Starfinder (I am a space nerd, and love Golarion lore).
My local VC does try to work with us who have played most everything. But that only goes so far. Still, he is pretty amazing. And one good thing has come out of me frequently not being able to play unless I run... I now play LOTS more 3.5 again, and some of us are looking at Runequest as well. (Edit: there ARE newer offerings, too; a handful of our experienced players were playing Savage Worlds last weekend. But I generally won't recommend PFS anymore to friends with whom I'd like to play unless I want to GM for them... because I cannot play with them.) (Second edit: I am not actually arguing for replay. I know it won't happen. I am just pointing out that we are well past the stage of "people may run out and leave..." They already have.)
Grolloc wrote: Throw in some completely non-combat encounters just to mess with them. Something hideously over their CR that is just feeding off their fears, stalking them but no intention of killing them. Argh. He's named the damnable Will-o-the-Wisp that's stalking us across the Stolen Lands in his KM campaign. >.<
roysier wrote:
So I had to go check; if my notes are right: 10,4,11,11,9,3,3,1,1,6,4,4,5,6,2,1,2,1,1,2(C),1(C)I don't have much local opportunity for AP play, and I am as likely to run a module as I am to get to play one. Also, in my experience it does feel like level 6 can be a bit of a wasteland for scenarios. (I do GM some, but fulltime work and part-time grad school limit me. Due to our tendency to play 1-5s -- almost all of which I've played -- I was giving heavy consideration to devoting my Wednesdays to another game's organized campaign, but Core seems to have alleviated that need for the nonce! ^_^ )
I want to remake a weird Character idea that was pretty fun but everyone called evil but I disagree.
For what it is worth, I have a neutral alchemist whose worship of Urgathoa is apotropaic -- he tries to avert her attention to elsewhere, and not afflict the human cities where he travels. Indulging that "twisted urge to kill" sounds evil to me, though routinely resisting it would not be in my book (usually; exceptions happen).
grandpoobah wrote:
That was my experience. In regular PFS play I much prefer my half-elf with 16 CON (later 18 CON) Barbarian-1/Wizard-6/Eldritch Knight-2 over my Magus-9. But then part of it is the character concept. As for CORE --
Understood. It's more that (when GMing) I allow generic benefits but assume that specific items may not get the generic drawbacks / overall rule unless called out (mithral shirt doesn't weigh 2.5 lb more even though a chain shirt of mithral should be half of 25 lb, Elven chain doesn't require medium armor proficiency since it is "treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency"). Otherwise, I am assuming that my players will have to memorize rules from multiple places and that they must make the assumption that every rule or item has a hidden agenda / drawback / issue requiring exhaustive study. In my opinion, though I am a rules-monkey, I ought not expect that of my players. (Note that my own characters use blunt silvered weapons to avoid the whole issue.) Now... if we DO want the general rule to apply then we might want to note the reduced damage in introductory materials where newer GMs or players may not have fully internalized "All The Books" (e.g., when Zarta Dralneen hands off her letter opener in First Steps: In Service to Lore. Note it and it becomes a teaching point in introductory material (and I hope that we shall see more Silverhex and Wounded Wisp-style material!). Hide it -- as we currently do -- and it becomes a trap to trip the unwary who are not rules-lawyers like ourselves here.
Lamontius wrote:
VERY useful list. As with Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Human), Sneak Attack is a lovely addition to a rogue's inventory of combat options, but it is NOT a panacea. (I am still going to try a Combat Expertise / Improved Feint human rogue as my first CORE character... I figure it cannot be as painful as my -1 character, a magus. I've also had some misses as well as some hits on the eighteen characters in-between, too! ^_^ )
I am vexed by a discussion on generic rules and specific weapons (indirectly drawn from a discussion on the Feint feats). In your view, what damage ranges do the following weapons have (assuming Medium size weapons)? 1. An alchemical silver light mace (1d6 or 1d6-1?)
The entry for the Masterwork Silver Dagger appears under Specific Magic Weapons section of Ultimate Equipment as well as in an entry the Core Rulebook, while the rules on alchemical silver appear in the Special Materials section of the Core Rulebook and elsewhere. My Interpretation; also, mild Silverhex spoiler: In my opinion: 1. In my opinion, the silvered light mace does 1d6 because it is not a slashing or piercing weapon ("On a successful attack with a silvered slashing or piercing weapon, the wielder takes a –1 penalty on the damage roll"). 2. In my opinion, the Masterwork Silver Dagger is a named entry (though not a "named item") with the admonishment "[a]s a masterwork weapon, this alchemical silver dagger has a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls (but not to damage rolls)." Since the specific named entry reiterates the enhancement rules but not the damage rules, and since the table includes other deviations (e.g., a Mithral Shirt weighs 10 lb instead of 12.5 lb, and Elvin Chain does not require Medium Armor Proficiency), I would let a player at my table do 1d4 damage rather than 1d4-1 damage. Note that this weapon or its equivalent occurs all over, including in Zarta Dralneen's chambers in First Steps: In Service to Lore. Again, in my opinion, changing the damage to -1 isn't RAW (but I know people that argue that it is). 3. In my opinion, the Silverhex does take the -1 damage penalty for being alchemical silver, which interpretation also matches Ulisha's stat block on page 26 of the Silverhex Chronicles.
I've seen many people comment that CORE play will reduce Paizo's book sales. Others have pointed out one or two of these points, but I'd like to reiterate a few of these: 1. Some of us weren't able to regularly play PFS any more. Few people want to buy material for games they don't play. Now we can play again. 2. Some of us bought books for reasons OTHER than "Hey, here's a cool rule / feat / talent / archetype!" I love the Golarion setting. I gave precedence to the resources that I needed to run or play something, but I also did things like bought non-PFS modules to have maps of places like Bloodcove (only to find that map later revised, LOL). 3. For those of us who also like to GM and buy our own scenarios, we can now apply chronicle sheets to two different characters... That might encourage more GMs to buy more modules, etc? 4. New players will want to buy books just to know what's going on (this is kinda covered in #2).
The Human Diversion wrote: To me, metagaming is a player of a 1st level character without Knowledge: Religion putting away their preferred greatsword and getting out a blunt weapon to deal with skeletons. It seems weird to me that three years of Pathfinder training in a world besieged by the Whispering Way wouldn't include "blunt for skinny, sharp for stinky undead." Detailed knowledge? No. But basic knowledge? Well, yes. First level characters are supposed to be ground-level professionals rather than commoners or aristocrats or experts or other NPC classes. I love to encourage players at my table to roleplay weaknesses and ignorances -- but that's the sort of knowledge (above) that I think that all should have. Not specialized, just something that a professional WOULD get in a three year training course.
Jiggy wrote:
Nonmagical Fear effects likewise cause some GMs to explode (e.g., the Rogue Thug archetype, esp. if combined with the compatible Scout archetype (IIRC)). Ditto on Trip or Disarm feats with whips (Serpent Lash, etc).
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