Nargrakhan's page

Nargrakhan wrote:

Look... I can think of a dozen ways I could use SNAP or TANF to buy crack or street girls... but all of them are illegal and require knowing someone in the system who can work the corruption (a clerk or desk jokey for example). Or using the criminal blackmarket and illegal sites. It DOES happen, but most of them fail or are discovered fairly quick... usually after $100 is stolen.

"We" have provided lots of links to this before (in other threads), proving that the vast majority of fraud being committed is actually being done by the businesses in the program, not the welfare recipients as a whole. And also that the total amount of fraud is in the very low percentage (I believe it's less than 2%, but that's just off the top of my head). Andrew has been provided with this evidence several times.

Apparently none of it sticks and it's easier to continue with preconceived notions. The "Welfare Queens" are a Reagan myth.
I know, I know, I could now link to the studies showing that facts seldom change strongly held beliefs. :-p

SNAP and TANF, at the cashier to customer level, is fairly tight. Not only is there a camera recording the cashier, but there's papers that need to be signed. It's easier to pull off a regular credit card scam, than trying to rip off SNAP and TANF. I hate to admit it, but I used to HATE seeing people using either welfare program and having a lot of items in their cart, because it meant it would be a loooooong boring process. You have to check what they're buying, and see if there's a cheaper substitute or allowed. Moreover... it's kinda heartless. I remember telling people they couldn't buy a certain food item, because it was considered "premium brand" and they had to swap it with the cheap (often nastier tasting) stuff. I knew why they didn't want the garbage brand -- I sure has hell wouldn't eat it myself -- but rules are rules and they either got that or nothing at all.

***EDIT***
And yes... I know poor people might not have a right to be picky about what their food taste like, but that cardboard tasting oatmeal paste that's like sandy grit in your mouth is disgusting. I know they say you'll eat anything if you're hungry... but still... yuck...

that is just snap, there is more to it

Sure there's more programs, but they all have a function. Specifics depend on the program.

http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,4562,7-124-5453_5526---,00.html

http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,4562,7-124-5453_5526_61229---,00.html
Even lists many ATMs that you can get cash off of

That's TANF related they're using, not SNAP... and you have to submit the receipts when using TANF with a multipage application that justifies why you needed to buy it. Total pain in the butt. Plus, to be perfectly honest, the typical poor person doesn't get much money for TANF. The average I saw spent was like $20. Most I ever saw a single family have spent was $50 (and it was a BIG family).

Look... I can think of a dozen ways I could use SNAP or TANF to buy crack or street girls... but all of them are illegal and require knowing someone in the system who can work the corruption (a clerk or desk jokey for example). Or using the criminal blackmarket and illegal sites. It DOES happen, but most of them fail or are discovered fairly quick... usually after $100 is stolen.

There's no fool proof system with money. The gov'ment ran programs have this kind of corruption. The corporate ran programs have this kind of corruption. Donation programs have this kind of corruption. Anything that involves money and people, will have this kind of corruption. It's what bad people do... however that doesn't mean government, corporation, or donation programs are so inherently flawed, they're not worth it... or that it doesn't get noticed to be fixed.

Just report what you saw... 99.9% chance it's illegal and will be terminated with prejudice.

***EDIT***
Corrected wording.

Freehold DM wrote:

Andrew R wrote:

GentleGiant wrote:

Andrew R wrote:

And i do not say to get rid of it entirely, i just want to take the fun out of it so it is not abused so much. My current idea is to NOT give them a card, tie it to state ID and only that person may use it. Mark the card "not eligible to purchase alcohol, lotto or tobacco" as they have no business buying those while taking from others. Only allow the card to buy actual food not redbull. Make them all take a class about shopping smart and cooking. DO NOT give them more if they continue to have kids they do not need insensitive to keep making the problem worse. Revoke it for criminal actions, if they don't care about their kids enough to leave the meth alone goe the kids to someone that gives a damn

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)

Eligible Food Items

Quote:

Households CANNOT use SNAP benefits to buy:

Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco

So, are you going to fess up to the fact that you have this stubborn idea of what it means to be on welfare which has no correlation to reality?

Here in MI they can get cash off the card and buy all of that at whim

Doesn't work that way here, and I live in the cesspool of sin known as New York. You have to exchange goods(perhaps services, but that's quite rare) in order to do that.

We have a system connected to snap called "cash assistance" meant to help cover bills and buy goods where cards are not an option. It is usable for anything, including drugs and strippers as it is cash in hand

Supermarket guy again. That's program is probably TANF or one of it's derivatives. There's a LOT of paperwork involved when using it, to justify what you buy with it.

Lapses are usually due to bureaucratic laziness or corruption. Again, please report it if seen. Gov'ment will shut it down lightning quick. Many States are "you are guilty until you've proven yourself innocent" with TANF and the like.

In fact, one can be a real jerk and report someone completely innocent, making their difficult situation even more difficult, since they have to resubmit paperwork to reinstate the benefit. That's how paranoid the program is...

***EDIT***
It's not SNAP though... SNAP is a welfare program, but it doesn't allow cash in.

GentleGiant wrote:

Andrew R wrote:

And i do not say to get rid of it entirely, i just want to take the fun out of it so it is not abused so much. My current idea is to NOT give them a card, tie it to state ID and only that person may use it. Mark the card "not eligible to purchase alcohol, lotto or tobacco" as they have no business buying those while taking from others. Only allow the card to buy actual food not redbull. Make them all take a class about shopping smart and cooking. DO NOT give them more if they continue to have kids they do not need insensitive to keep making the problem worse. Revoke it for criminal actions, if they don't care about their kids enough to leave the meth alone goe the kids to someone that gives a damn

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)

Eligible Food Items

Quote:

Households CANNOT use SNAP benefits to buy:

Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco

So, are you going to fess up to the fact that you have this stubborn idea of what it means to be on welfare which has no correlation to reality?

Here in MI they can get cash off the card and buy all of that at whim

That's illegal. You can't exchange SNAP for cash:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/fraud/what-snap-fraud

I used to work in a supermarket. They told us to look out for scams that tried stunts geared for that. Report the people who are doing it: the gov'ment will revoke their SNAP. Again, worked in a supermarket... seen it done.

It's possible for magic to have a system that it obeys. Granted magic tends to rip apart the "real world", but there's costs and limitations to what a "unit of magic" can do.

Be it that magic emanates from a shattered gateway into the Realms of Chaos, there's a need for Equivalent Exchange, a massive Mammon Machine generates mana, the need to concentrate power with incantations and icons, etc...

When a "fighter" can "slice" the air and release waves of force when swinging their swords that can cut a fireball in half, they are no longer "mundane" martials. That is essentially making the "fighter" a magical creature.

I disagree. It's a bias of Western fantasy.

In Western fantasy, a warrior is limited to what a real human (albeit at Olympic performance) can do -- never mind the setting is not constrained by real world physics. There is a limit to his strength. There is a limit to his endurance. There is a limit to what a steel sword can do. Only wizards can weave and pull on the threads of Reality. Magic is the ONLY means to defy physics.

In Eastern fantasy, a warrior is only limited by his willpower and training. A warrior can train to cleave through a mountain. A warrior can learn to reflect lightning off his sword. Magic is just another tool to achieve the same effects. In Eastern fantasy, there isn't a limit to what a "mere human body" can achieve... because the setting is not constrained by real world physics.

This is entirely on topic drift. The question being asked is really how to "balance" spellcasters against martial.

The only answer is to either get rid of magic, or make martials casters too.

In classical Western fantasy, the wizards are vastly more powerful than swordsmen. Wizards throw fireballs, can teleport, create force fields, etc. Fighters just swing their sword... they're lucky if that sword is magic.

In classical Asian fantasy, fighters can "slice" the air and release waves of force when swinging their swords. They can cut down a wizard's fireball in midair. They can move so fast, it's like they teleported behind you.

However when you see a melee class with such powers in a Western fantasy RPG, it upsets gamers for being too anime or trying too hard to make fighters like wizards.

IMHO: The foundations and expectations of what make Western fantasy what it is, are the reason why swordsmen (and other meleers) are crippled as they are.