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On closer inspection, only the number for 18-20/2 is wrong. It should be 6.325, like 20/x4. If considering only DPS (ignoring factors like crit feats and overkill damage), the ranking should be 19-20/x3 > 18-20/x2 = 20/x4 > 19-20/x2 = 20/x3 > 20/x2
Same here. But the "major edit" include some tables with numbers that's supposed to rank the different crit-ranges and multipliers. It is those numbers that are wrong. I only bring it up, because it's still linked to in "the guide to the guides", potentially confusing a lot of players looking for info.
This page is listed as the discussion thread for VI's guide to Weaponry, so I hope someone here can help me. I haven't read through this thread, so apologies if this has already been adressed. I can't get my head around his. Every calculation I do shows 19-20/x3 as doing more damage than 18-20/x2. 19-20/x3 adds 20% damage in my book, while 18-20/x2 only adds 15%. Also, 20/x4 should add 15% as well, making it the same as 18-20/x2, not 0.5 less.
Someone please explain to me why I am wrong or why this has not yet been noticed/fixed.
Apology accepted :) I mostly agreed with the point you're trying to make, it was just a bit misplaced in this specific thread. In truth the invulnerable rager is nice if your going to use a lot of environmental situations like in the desert or frozen wastes. There selling point for me is that armoured hulk can work anywhere and he's harder to hit. His damage reduction may not be as good, but if its harder to hit you, you don't need to reduce any damage. Is the AC really going to be that good (even when raging)? 'Cause if it is, this seems like the natural choice. DR is best when you have max HP, AC works better when you're a bit squishy.
One of the simplest bits of advice I can give here is try the armoured hulk archetype. They can then wear heavy armour if needed. Then they can make their barbarian how ever they want. I have looked it over and it does indeed seem nice, but is there any real advantage to taking that instead of going Invulnerable Rager and taking the armor proficiency as a feat?
What if i had 12 str and 17 int and still wanted to play a freakin barbarian? You wouldn't let me? Because it's not optimised? Or because it's purposely "nerfed"? Actually, none of this is about what I will or won't let him do. I'm just trying to gather advice to pass on to him, because he needs and wants it. I encourage all my players to be role-players, not just roll-players. This player is especially keen on that. He prefers RP encounters and content over pure combat. However, roll-playing and role-playing doesn't have to be opposites (it is, after all, a role-playing GAME). Part of role-playing a barbarian is feeling strong and powerful in combat. It is more fun for him to be able to contribute meaningfully to combat encounters, to be able to dish out and take some hits. I'm not forcing him to do anything with his character. I'm letting him play his character. I am, however, helping him improve his effectiveness because that's what he wants. The hazards of asking for advice on a public forum. You get what you ask for If only. While I have gotten a lot of what I asked for, and that's what's awesome about these boards, this time I have unfortunately also gotten a lot stuff that I didn't ask for and even a little that I specifically said I didn't need. Still, I'm grateful for what I've gotten so far. Some of this will most likely end up influencing his character greatly.
If I'm reading the Dragon Totem correctly, it gives him +2 DR/- which makes it a total of +6 all for three. Is that right?
How is this normally ruled? Does Dragon Totem work with Invulnerable Rager?
Is he more concerned about playing the barbarian class, or the barbarian flavor? You do not need to have levels in barbarian to be a "barbarian". I think both. He likes the flavor, but he's also really looking forward to raging in combat. I talked to him yesterday and he seems pretty set on the barbarian class. I might get him to dip fighter for one level, but I don't think he'll go for Skald, Oracle or other such dips. Thanks for those suggestions, though, people. It nice to know what could work, even if he doesn't go that way.
+1
This actually looks really nice. Some of the feats and rage powers will probably be changed, but I'll definitely suggest this to him. Thanks :) Aiee... I apologize if this comes off as hostile, I don't mean it as such. Don't worry, it doesn't. And the same goes to you: I hope I don't come off as hostile. I really mean no offense.
Because that way, if they were really set on a specific build or class, they could still get it. A few of them had already made builds before we rolled and they compared their rolls with what they already had. Every single one chose the rolls. When I say fair, I mean to fair to the players in the sense, that they get to play what they wanted to play. If the sets they rolled were way too overpowered, I had them re-roll. If they were way too weak, they also re-rolled. The point was to get some interesting characters instead of the usual min-maxed cardboard cutouts. This worked amazingly well.You should be able to spot the game theory trap now, if you didn't before: "If you accept random stats that may force you to build an entirely different character, you can have twice as many points to build a character with." I realize this, but the number of points a build is worth isn't everything. Not when they don't get to put their points where ever they want to. A fully min-maxed character made with 15 points could easily be as effective as a build worth 25 points if those points are weirdly distributed. I agree, the odds generally favor the rolls, but I'm just saying, point sum isn't everything.
Fortunately, as GM I am able to make sure that there isn't a terrible balance issue between the PCs. We've ended up with a pretty even party, I'd say. Also, as GM I have the option of choosing a non-standard way of playing, which I did.Thanks for your suggestions on how to make him work, though. Every bit of advice is welcome. Once he starts getting his damage reduction, he should take Extra Rage Power feat every time until he has maxed out being able to take Improved Damage Reduction rage power. I was thinking something along these lines. Really take advantage of the DR by raising it as much as possible and going Guarded Life (possibly Flesh Wound in high level). What do you think will be most efficient for him, the Beast Totem (Natural Armor and pounce) or the Spirit Totem (extra damage and 20% miss chance)? Thanks for all the advice so far. Keep it coming :)
Looking over my stats now, it seems that it's not really possible (unless I somehow convince my GM to give me Combat Expertise without 13 int).
It'll just have to wait to my next fighter.
Crippling his ability to rage just because you believe in place 'em where you roll 'em is not funny or productive. At the risk of repeating myself, I let the players roll THREE SETS of stats and give them the choice of one of those OR point buy 15. In what way is that unfair? I actually gave one of the other players the option to fudge the stats slightly to better fit his class, but he refused BECAUSE it just wouldn't be as fun as playing them as rolled (so it IS apparently funny to some). Besides, they all agreed to it and all of them are quite happy with what they got. The issue is NOT how he ended up with those stats or what other classes might benefit from them, but how to make the best possible barbarian from them. Think of it as a challenge.
That looks like a really nice build. I'm tempting to try to steer my own current fighter towards that build now, just to try it out. In regards to what feats to choose, I'd probably go with the Step Up line. I haven't got any real experience with Sunder, so I don't know if that's good at those levels, but vital strike with a Falchion just doesn't seem that WOW to me. You do 8d4 instead of 2d4, which adds an average of about 15 damage, if I'm reading it right. Even at max (all 4s) it's only 24 extra damage, which isn't even affected by crits. That's not all that much at that level, is it? Just my thoughts. I haven't played a campaign at that high levels yet, so I don't really know.
I was thinking guarded life, increased DR and Beast Totem (for natural armor). Is Renewed Vigor worth it? Healing a bit as a standard attack instead of trying to take out the enemy as fast as possible, seems less barbaric to me.
He can't switch his stats around, they're locked it due to the way we rolled stats. Any thoughts on rage powers?
I let my players roll three sets of stats (4d6, subtract the lowest die, for every stat in order) instead of letting them roll 6 stats and then assigning. If none of their sets were any good, they were free to use point buy 15 instead. I wasn't really looking to discuss methods for rolling stats though. I was, however, looking for advice on how to build an effective Barbarian with the listed stats. Can anyone help me with that?
While I will mention this to him, I think he's rather fond of the idea of playing a barbarian. He's already written a story for him.
I'm DMing my own campaign, starting in a months time, and I want to make sure all my players are having fun. We're all relatively new to the game. One of my players (who isn't incredible strong rules-wise and so needs a little help building an effective character) rolled these stats: Str 17
I can't recall if these stats are before or after putting a +2 from Human in there, but I think it's after (he might have rolled 10 con). He's making a Human Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) and they're starting at level 1. I don't think 17 strength is bad and the charisma is nice for intimidating, but I'm worried he's gonna be in constant risk of dying with so low dex and con. So here's where you guys come in. I need advice that I can give him on how to build his barbarian effectively (and thoughts on how effective he can possibly get). Any thoughts on gear (magic and otherwise), feats and rage powers would be greatly appreciated (I checked out the barbarian guide here on the boards, but it's unfinished and outdated). Thanks in advance.
Thanks all. Considering that it is indeed a homebrew game, and that most of my players won't be crazy optimizing (I doubt I'll ever see 30 strength in any of my games), I don't think it's gonna be all that big of a problem. So for now, I think I'll be sticking to the reduced bonus (2x) on a single bludgeon weapon. I gotta say, I'm really loving these forums. People seem so eager to help, which is great when your understanding of the rules isn't all that great yet. Great community we've got here.
Awesome. I think I'll reduce it to 2x then, make it on a one-handed bludgeon weapon (to help out shield users) and probably add a bonus to sunder, disarm or bull rush. Thanks a lot, people.
That sounds usable. I'll consider that. To answer your question, the goal was to have a weapon that allowed greater utilization of the strength modifier in order for it to feel like there really was some force behind each blow, but I guess your suggestion achieves that too. Also, it's to gave a little more power to a player who's typically not quite as effective as some of the others.
Okay, so obviously this ability is a bit more powerful than I had initially thought (if unchanged, I would price it at least +3 now). Perhaps I should start by specifying that it will appear on a specific weapon (and that weapon only) that they might find (but will not be able to buy) and that it a bludgeon weapon. It's based on the Earth Breaker, so it has 1d12/x3. Also, of the crowd I usually play with, there is only one person who is really good at(and interested in) optimizing and taking maximum advantage of the rules, and he usually plays a caster. In addition, all of us are somewhat new to Pathfinder (which is our first P&P rpg). Finally, they'll all be rolling stats, not buying, so an 18 starting strength (or higher) is not all that likely (though a distinct possibility when adding the racial bonuses). Still, the ability obviously needs work. How about if I placed on a one-handed bludgeon weapon like, say, a mace? And then reduce the bonus to 1½x when wielded in one hand and 2x when wielded in both? I really appreciate all the feedback. Please keep it coming. I'd like to end up with something usable and cool that isn't game-breaking.
I'm making a custom magic weapon for my homemade campaign and I'm thinking about giving it a new magic weapon ability I call Crushing. Basically it allows the user to add 3x his str modifier to the damage instead of the normal 1½ when wielding it in both hands. I was thinking of pricing it like a +2 modifier. Does this seem right? In general, do you think an ability like that is game breaking? Mind you, my players won't know of it in advance, so no one will be building a character around it. Any thoughts/advice welcome.
Thank you all the answers, that helped a lot. I think I had gotten a bit confused regarding the base forms, but it makes sense now. Final question, then. If my eidolon is limited to, say, 4 natural attacks, does that mean it won't get all the attacks that it would otherwise have with six arms wielding weapons and multiweapon fighting?
Thank you for the reply. I have a couple of follow up questions, though. Is there anyway to lose the slam attack? Will all of the biped forms lose 2 potentiel attacks to their natural attacks? Another source had gotten me the same result for the attack bonuses, but I don't understand why the offhand bonus is as big the mainhand. Could you explain it for me, possible show me the math? Thanks in advance :)
I'd like to add a question, as I'm currently thinking about playing a summoner. With my summoner at 8th level, my eidolon is a slam type biped with a total of 6 arms and the large size evolution. It has multiweapon fighting, exotic wpn. pro. (sawtooth sabre) and wpn. focus (sawtooth sabre). Wielding 6 Mwk. Sawtooth sabres, how many attacks would it get and with what bonuses? Relevant stats: 30 str, 13 dex, BAB +6. Also, sorry if this has been asked before. I did a search of the forums and it just felt a bit overwhelming.
He has changed the following:
While they're probably still better than the core races (on account of the nice natural armor), they ought to be less broken now, as it no longer scales with level. What are your thoughts? I'm playing a Full Plated Greyman fighter with a greatsword and a lvl 2 AC of 24/22/12, by the way.
It's on top of.
My friend made a new race for his home-made campaign and I was hoping I could have some one better versed in the rules to help me evaluate it. The big important question is: Is this race balanced when compared to the core races? If not, should it be nerfed or improved? Any advice welcome. Also, we're not really powergamers, so if the difference is a small one or hard to exploit (eg. coming up only in very specific situations), then it's probably not relevant.
Here are the important numbers:
I've left out the flavor text on purpose. If, for some reason, you deem it important, I guess I'll post what I've been provided. Thanks in advance. |
