I'm DMing my own campaign, starting in a months time, and I want to make sure all my players are having fun. We're all relatively new to the game.
One of my players (who isn't incredible strong rules-wise and so needs a little help building an effective character) rolled these stats:
Str 17
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 11
Wis 13
Cha 17
I can't recall if these stats are before or after putting a +2 from Human in there, but I think it's after (he might have rolled 10 con).
He's making a Human Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) and they're starting at level 1. I don't think 17 strength is bad and the charisma is nice for intimidating, but I'm worried he's gonna be in constant risk of dying with so low dex and con. So here's where you guys come in.
I need advice that I can give him on how to build his barbarian effectively (and thoughts on how effective he can possibly get). Any thoughts on gear (magic and otherwise), feats and rage powers would be greatly appreciated (I checked out the barbarian guide here on the boards, but it's unfinished and outdated).
Thanks in advance.
While I will mention this to him, I think he's rather fond of the idea of playing a barbarian. He's already written a story for him.
Yes, they scream PALADIN indeed! Would be perfect for it.
Also you can put 17 in dex and be a ranger!
For a Barbarian most probably you would need the 17 in COS
Let him swap his Cha for Con?
Otherwise, I really wouldn't sweat about it. It's the way the dice land.
You should let your players decide how to place their rolled stats. Rolling for every single stat is just so mean if you want to play a certainb buid...
|
You should let your players decide how to place their rolled stats. Rolling for every single stat is just so mean if you want to play a certainb buid...
I agree and that's why I let my players point buy. But for my latest campaign I had them make three characters. A main one for 25 pts, secondary 4d6 in order, tertiary 3d6 in order. It was fun to see people get out of their comfort zone and play classes they ordinarily would not use. They also could not optimize because they had to pick races and classes that worked with the good and bad stats.
I let my players roll three sets of stats (4d6, subtract the lowest die, for every stat in order) instead of letting them roll 6 stats and then assigning. If none of their sets were any good, they were free to use point buy 15 instead. I wasn't really looking to discuss methods for rolling stats though. I was, however, looking for advice on how to build an effective Barbarian with the listed stats.
Can anyone help me with that?
One of my players (who isn't incredible strong rules-wise and so needs I don't think 17 strength is bad and the charisma is nice for intimidating, but I'm worried he's gonna be in constant risk of dying with so low dex and con. So here's where you guys come in.
Intimidating is nice and well, but 17 seems exessive. I´d strongly recommend putting the 17 on Con or Dex. Otherwise you´d need Weapon focus/ Dazzling Display or something to really use Cha, or he should consider going Oracle - Rage Prophet, to make use of the Charisma.
Otherwise Power Attack, Furious Focus and Cleave are a classical feat progression for a barbarian.
|
With those stats he should take a level of fighter, slap on some full plate. Yeah he'll be slower but it'll keep him alive for more than 5 seconds.
Feat wise you'll want power attack, furious focus, vital strike chain, possibly toughness. Use a two handed weapon and power attack a lot. Spend your money on raising your Defenses and Str.
Your damage will be good enough to ignore enchanting your weapon at first. But later on try for the furious enchantment.
Those stats aren't that bad, he'll be fine if he's smart.
Intimidating is nice and well, but 17 seems exessive. I´d strongly recommend putting the 17 on Con or Dex. Otherwise you´d need Weapon focus/ Dazzling Display or something to really use Cha, or he should consider going Oracle - Rage Prophet, to make use of the Charisma.
Otherwise Power Attack, Furious Focus and Cleave are a classical feat progression for a barbarian.
He can't switch his stats around, they're locked it due to the way we rolled stats.
Any thoughts on rage powers?
With these abilities you can try to use the intimidate feats (weapon focus, dazzling display etc, there is no need for intimidating prowess) maybe with a weapon with reach to stay a little bit out of troubles?
And, what about 1 level of sorcerer to cast some useful stuff like 'shield' 'true strike' (that has no somatic component)? Just had the idea... It could be worthwhile in the early game and a bit sucky later on.
The only rage power i found to be working with intimidate is intimidating glare, with doesn´t strike me as terribly good, but take a look, if the built ends up without dazzling display.
Considering his low Con and whats being said in the forum, i´d recommend guarded life, maybe renewed vigor too.
I was thinking guarded life, increased DR and Beast Totem (for natural armor).
Is Renewed Vigor worth it? Healing a bit as a standard attack instead of trying to take out the enemy as fast as possible, seems less barbaric to me.
Have him look at Skald.
It's like Barbarian, but being a bard it actually benefits from those stats, which are positively awful for a barbarian. Crippling his ability to rage just because you believe in place 'em where you roll 'em is not funny or productive.
Crippling his ability to rage just because you believe in place 'em where you roll 'em is not funny or productive.
At the risk of repeating myself, I let the players roll THREE SETS of stats and give them the choice of one of those OR point buy 15. In what way is that unfair? I actually gave one of the other players the option to fudge the stats slightly to better fit his class, but he refused BECAUSE it just wouldn't be as fun as playing them as rolled (so it IS apparently funny to some). Besides, they all agreed to it and all of them are quite happy with what they got.
The issue is NOT how he ended up with those stats or what other classes might benefit from them, but how to make the best possible barbarian from them. Think of it as a challenge.
The only other thing i can think of is my new favourite feat flagbearer, with requires Cha 15 and gives morale bonus, but also a hand, unless you allow him to use a polearm as flagpost.
And the feat dreadfull carnage.
Maybe he could go 1 level of oracle and then by chosing the nature mystery and the nature's whispers revelation he could use Cha for AC. Later he could go rage prophet. He still would have the problem with his Con though. But he could use feats like extra rage and toughness to solve this. It's just about having fun right? He doesn't need to be optimized. If he likes the warrior/shaman theme it would be an option.
My first post by the way.^^ Hello everyone :)
Greetings from Germany
I would suggest Rage Prophet. He can use the CHA and the spell casting to buff his CON and AC. Problem is surviving long enough for the payoff.
Ton of flavor though. I think its less powerful then a straight BARB but has a ton more utility.
One of the Oracle curses even makes you immune to fatigue... how you like them apples.
Also the spirit totem rage powers. They aren't very useful of roost barbarians because they are based off of charisma. Things like automatically attacking adjacent enemies every round and giving you concealment.
EDIT: As Majuba says below, non-full round action choices are good. The extra attacks from spirit totem do not require full rounds.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Wow... it's really interesting the percentage of people listening and the percentage not.
Intimidation should definitely be your player's 'thing'. It makes up for his low Dex, and really uses that nice Cha score.
Feats:
1st: Toughness, Intimidating Prowess (Str to Intimidate)
3rd: Power Attack
5th: Cleave
7th: Vital Strike
9th: Skill Focus (Intimidate)
He can't combine Cleave and Vital strike, but since Intimidating Glare is a move action, and he wants to be mobile (due to the lower ac/hp) to prevent full attacks, he needs good standard action options. Skill Focus goes to +6 at 10 ranks, and I think that'll be worth taking at 9th.
Rage powers:
2nd: Intimidating Glare
4th: Knockback (keep enemies away from him, fewer full attacks. Could also go Improved and Greater Bull Rush to make enemies provoke on the movement (instead of two other feats).
6th: Strength Surge (make that Knockback stick, or use it to CMD to keep from being caught in place).
8th: Terrifying Howl (make 'em run!)
10th: Unexpected Strike {Knockback an enemy away, free attack as they come back in}
Other options for 6th would be the ranged or melee AC booster. They take a move action to activate, and if he's focusing on standard action things that's not bad. Only last 3 rounds with that con score though.
Another option for 4th level would be No Escape - if you make your enemies run away, you can pursue them!
I think your player is going to have a blast - enjoy!
Aiee... I apologize if this comes off as hostile, I don't mean it as such. I just don't think you understand the game theory trap you're creating for your players and yourself.
I let the players roll THREE SETS of stats and give them the choice of one of those OR point buy 15. In what way is that unfair?
You're giving them the choice of a 15 point buy or a 3 column dicefest that should yield stats equivalent to roughly a 25 to 32 random point buy. Why does this seem fair to you? Why do you think this is a choice?
Point in fact: your barbarian example is exactly 32 points by point buy rules. If he rolls out on the battlefield next to three characters who took the 15 point point buy, even with his oddly placed charisma, he should completely outclass them. (Especially if the intimidate setup Majuba put forth works the way it looks like it should, that could be really evil.)
You should be able to spot the game theory trap now, if you didn't before: "If you accept random stats that may force you to build an entirely different character, you can have twice as many points to build a character with."
Then you have to actually figure out how to challenge the powerful characters without overwhelming the 15 point buys.
Lastly, the core rulebook even defines letting you place your stats where you want them as the standard, normal way of playing.
The issue is NOT how he ended up with those stats or what other classes might benefit from them, but how to make the best possible barbarian from them. Think of it as a challenge.
I suggested Skald because I thought he might want Barbarian flavor as opposed to explicitly the Barbarian class. They share much of the same flavor, while benefiting more from the stats. Since that's out... let's look at what is on the table, since there's some good ideas that have come up:
Jackissocool's spirit totem concept sounds good. I'm not sure where to find it on the SRD right now, but cha synergy is a good place to start.
Redporcupine's flagbearer feat suggestion is also really good and flavorful both. I also agree with his idea of letting him use a polearm with the flag on it, it's a common place for the standard. Certain countries also had harnesses that you could strap your flagpole to and wear it on your back.
Majuba's build looks really evil to me, but I'd avoid vital strike. Everything else about that build is just... beautifully evil. Your player can also invest ranks in diplomacy, get a snappy set of furs and be the party face on top of being the scary face of doom.
I might try swapping to a small race and combining Ragelancepounce (Mounted Fury archetype) with the flagbearer feat. while mounted, you can use a lance one handed. Lance one handed, raise your flag high. Twin pounce for massive damage, have the mount to split damage between. As a Small race, your mount would be Medium and could fit in dungeons. While Barbarians can't use armor, your mount can. The Mounted Combat feat line also goes to support this, and as an alternative to the flag, you could wear a shield and get a feat to share both the shield AC with yourself and the mount.
I have played a barbarian that was the face of the party before and it was a lot of fun(depending on alignment of the party intimidate can be awesome if used creatively. It seems to me the problem is between optimization and role playing. A barb with the stats will never be optimal but it isn't so defective as to be unplayable. Good role playing can make great characters out of weird stats. '
I like the idea of adding heavy armor to the equation either through a feat or a multiclass probably fighter. To solve the Con problems make friends with your casters and have them cast bears endurance on you. Magical equipment can boost your con as well if you think its more important then strength.
Another option is using reach weapons to keep the enemies at bay and not have to deal with so many hits.
Lots of fun options see what your player wants to do and hope for the best if it doesn't work out the char will die and he can reroll and try again.
You guys are terrible, this guy has posted 4 times "No, can you help the actual problem?" and got swarmed.
THIS IS A VIABLE BARBARIAN.
For the love of god man, just make a regular old fashioned barbarian, but take Spirit Totem rage powers, Intimidating Glare, Terrifying Howl. Feats slap on Power attack, Furious Focus, Gory Finish, and fill in with whatever else seems fun or needed.
Charisma doesn't automatically make a barbarian unplayable! If he had rolled 17 12 12 12 12 12 no one would have said anything about its viability.
So many badwrongfun posts here. The GM and his group are happy with their stat generation system. Why are so many people here telling him that it's the problem and attacking him?
To the OP: There's absolutely nothing wrong with a 12 Dex and 12 Con. They're a touch low, but taking Heavy Armor Proficiency or Toughness can help. The Armored Hulk archetype might be a decent choice. I'd suggest focusing either on sword & board or a reach weapon.
Yeah, I agree with Glutton. You don't need a 18 con to live as a barbarian.
If you use Traits, there is one (Berserker of the society) that gives 3 more rage rounds. This still gives 1 more trait for whatever he wants to round out and now he's sporting 8 Rage rounds at 1st level. That should be plenty.
Depending on the story/build he wants to do for the character, he might want to go with Fast-Talker and get a +4 to Bluff checks (+1 Trait bonus and it becomes a class skill, being a +8 at level 1 with 1 skill point)
or world Traveler and go the diplomacy route. Either way, you have 2 of the 3 social skills, both with a VERY different flavor of how you handle things.
Also, Leadership would be something to consider too down the road as the Cha mod helps get you superior returns faster. (and if he isn't worried about the rage rounds trait, there is a leadership trait that helps with that.)
A shield might not be a bad call, maybe going for a Swift Shield so get can easily switch from 1 to 2 handed mode.
Power attack is, without a doubt, almost required to be in Ink on the character sheet.
Rage powers there are tons of awesome ones.
If he is willing, I'd also suggest Urban barbarian. The 12 con makes Raging Vitality hard to get (12th level if he rushes it) That feat /really/ becomes needed for a barbarian around 7/8th level as you reach the 'positive hp to unconsious and dead due to rage con drop off'.
their are some health rage powers that would be wise to go with if he doesn't go Urban Barbarian.
If the character plays to his strengths and really focuses on the 'savage nobility' side of being a barbarian and thus develops into a 'face' of sorts, I think the character will shine in amazing ways.
Tell him to dip lvl 1 oracle, Lore or nature mysteries will let him use his cha instread of dex for defense. Both have odd rules though, lore is limited by armors max dex, and counts for the save. Nature, you lose the bonus if you are flat footed. But, for speaking in tounges, gaining darkvison, or losing 10 feet of movement, he gets cha to AC, some cast in any armor divine healing and armor spells, and can use wands of cure spells.
RP wise, well, crom is cruel, and giving.
He's going to have an effective character unless he goes out of his way to pick crappy feats. His stats are actually pretty good.
If it were me, I would focus on dealing as much damage as fast as possible. I know it's cliche but he should play to his strengths. He can take Extra Rage if he wants to rage longer. He can take Raging Vitality once his Constitution hits 15 and it will grant him an additional +2 to his Con while raging. Technically he could take it now and it would only apply when he rages, which is what he would want anyway.
Once he starts getting his damage reduction, he should take Extra Rage Power feat every time until he has maxed out being able to take Improved Damage Reduction rage power.
He also should find ways to get some energy resistance. DR won't help with that. The Dragon Totem powers can help with this plus he can gain some wings. Grab Terrifying Howl and the Lesser Beast Totem power (there is some confusion on whether or not he can do this, but you're the GM so it's on your shoulders, I err on the side of cool when in doubt) for some natural weapons to complete the dragon transformation. If he takes Guarded Life, his damage reduction will be pulling double duty which can mean the difference between life and death. Don't forget Power Attack. He could also consider going for someone who is highly resistant to magic. There are some rage powers that would be great for a magic hating invulnerable rager.
As for gear, the standard fair of two-handed weapon, best armor he can afford, belts of stat boosting, a headband for Wisdom and Charisma, a cloak of resistance or displacement, and whatever other protections he may want.
He can be a lot of fun. He just needs to figure out where he wants to go. Invulnerable Rager is just the beginning.
|
|
Wow... it's really interesting the percentage of people listening and the percentage not.
Intimidation should definitely be your player's 'thing'. It makes up for his low Dex, and really uses that nice Cha score.
Feats:
1st: Toughness, Intimidating Prowess (Str to Intimidate)
3rd: Power Attack
5th: Cleave
7th: Vital Strike
9th: Skill Focus (Intimidate)He can't combine Cleave and Vital strike, but since Intimidating Glare is a move action, and he wants to be mobile (due to the lower ac/hp) to prevent full attacks, he needs good standard action options. Skill Focus goes to +6 at 10 ranks, and I think that'll be worth taking at 9th.
Rage powers:
2nd: Intimidating Glare
4th: Knockback (keep enemies away from him, fewer full attacks. Could also go Improved and Greater Bull Rush to make enemies provoke on the movement (instead of two other feats).
6th: Strength Surge (make that Knockback stick, or use it to CMD to keep from being caught in place).
8th: Terrifying Howl (make 'em run!)
10th: Unexpected Strike {Knockback an enemy away, free attack as they come back in}Other options for 6th would be the ranged or melee AC booster. They take a move action to activate, and if he's focusing on standard action things that's not bad. Only last 3 rounds with that con score though.
Another option for 4th level would be No Escape - if you make your enemies run away, you can pursue them!
I think your player is going to have a blast - enjoy!
I second this, except replace Cleave with Furious Focus. Cleave is too situational, and Furious focus will make it easier to hit without charging and lowering your AC. I still also say take at least one level of Fighter for the extra feat and heavy armor proficiency.
Is he more concerned about playing the barbarian class, or the barbarian flavor? You do not need to have levels in barbarian to be a "barbarian".
I think both. He likes the flavor, but he's also really looking forward to raging in combat. I talked to him yesterday and he seems pretty set on the barbarian class. I might get him to dip fighter for one level, but I don't think he'll go for Skald, Oracle or other such dips. Thanks for those suggestions, though, people. It nice to know what could work, even if he doesn't go that way.
Wow... it's really interesting the percentage of people listening and the percentage not.
+1
Intimidation should definitely be your player's 'thing'. It makes up for his low Dex, and really uses that nice Cha score.
Feats:
1st: Toughness, Intimidating Prowess (Str to Intimidate)
3rd: Power Attack
5th: Cleave
7th: Vital Strike
9th: Skill Focus (Intimidate)He can't combine Cleave and Vital strike, but since Intimidating Glare is a move action, and he wants to be mobile (due to the lower ac/hp) to prevent full attacks, he needs good standard action options. Skill Focus goes to +6 at 10 ranks, and I think that'll be worth taking at 9th.
Rage powers:
2nd: Intimidating Glare
4th: Knockback (keep enemies away from him, fewer full attacks. Could also go Improved and Greater Bull Rush to make enemies provoke on the movement (instead of two other feats).
6th: Strength Surge (make that Knockback stick, or use it to CMD to keep from being caught in place).
8th: Terrifying Howl (make 'em run!)
10th: Unexpected Strike {Knockback an enemy away, free attack as they come back in}Other options for 6th would be the ranged or melee AC booster. They take a move action to activate, and if he's focusing on standard action things that's not bad. Only last 3 rounds with that con score though.
Another option for 4th level would be No Escape - if you make your enemies run away, you can pursue them!
I think your player is going to have a blast - enjoy!
This actually looks really nice. Some of the feats and rage powers will probably be changed, but I'll definitely suggest this to him. Thanks :)
Aiee... I apologize if this comes off as hostile, I don't mean it as such.
Don't worry, it doesn't. And the same goes to you: I hope I don't come off as hostile. I really mean no offense.
You're giving them the choice of a 15 point buy or a 3 column dicefest that should yield stats equivalent to roughly a 25 to 32 random point buy. Why does this seem fair to you? Why do you think this is a choice?
Because that way, if they were really set on a specific build or class, they could still get it. A few of them had already made builds before we rolled and they compared their rolls with what they already had. Every single one chose the rolls.
When I say fair, I mean to fair to the players in the sense, that they get to play what they wanted to play. If the sets they rolled were way too overpowered, I had them re-roll. If they were way too weak, they also re-rolled. The point was to get some interesting characters instead of the usual min-maxed cardboard cutouts. This worked amazingly well.You should be able to spot the game theory trap now, if you didn't before: "If you accept random stats that may force you to build an entirely different character, you can have twice as many points to build a character with."
I realize this, but the number of points a build is worth isn't everything. Not when they don't get to put their points where ever they want to. A fully min-maxed character made with 15 points could easily be as effective as a build worth 25 points if those points are weirdly distributed. I agree, the odds generally favor the rolls, but I'm just saying, point sum isn't everything.
Then you have to actually figure out how to challenge the powerful characters without overwhelming the 15 point buys.
Lastly, the core rulebook even defines letting you place your stats where you want them as the standard, normal way of playing.
Fortunately, as GM I am able to make sure that there isn't a terrible balance issue between the PCs. We've ended up with a pretty even party, I'd say.
Also, as GM I have the option of choosing a non-standard way of playing, which I did.Thanks for your suggestions on how to make him work, though. Every bit of advice is welcome.
Once he starts getting his damage reduction, he should take Extra Rage Power feat every time until he has maxed out being able to take Improved Damage Reduction rage power.
I was thinking something along these lines. Really take advantage of the DR by raising it as much as possible and going Guarded Life (possibly Flesh Wound in high level).
What do you think will be most efficient for him, the Beast Totem (Natural Armor and pounce) or the Spirit Totem (extra damage and 20% miss chance)?
Thanks for all the advice so far. Keep it coming :)
I like beast totem more than spirit totem. Pounce is really good, ok, and the bonus to natural armor is very good too.
Depending on how you read dragon totem it can be even better, especially if you let it combine with invulnerable rager (the literal interpretation, combined with invulnerable rager will give him a DR/- so high that CON won't matter).
One of my favorite rage power is raging vitality, really helpful with this build.
As for archetypes, both invulnerable rager and armored hulk are good. If mobility is not that important you can spend a feat (or take a fighter level for another additional feat) and take proficiency in heavy armor even as an invulnerable rager. Later on if he wants mobility he can buy a mithril full plate and be back at 9m which is good enough.
Other than that, toughness is good. If he spend a bit of gold in armor and it will be good enough to not worry about his CON.
As for CHA, I don't see how it could be useful except for intimidating (that, as has been pointed out, does not really require a high CHA).
If I'm reading the Dragon Totem correctly, it gives him +2 DR/- which makes it a total of +6 all for three. Is that right?
Then, at lvl 13, he could have DR 15/- (6 from archetype, 6 from Dragon, 3 from increased DR rage power) while raging and DR 6/- when not raging. Suddenly the rage thing really, really increases his survivability.
How is this normally ruled? Does Dragon Totem work with Invulnerable Rager?
If I'm reading the Dragon Totem correctly, it gives him +2 DR/- which makes it a total of +6 all for three. Is that right?
Then, at lvl 13, he could have DR 15/- (6 from archetype, 6 from Dragon, 3 from increased DR rage power) while raging and DR 6/- when not raging. Suddenly the rage thing really, really increases his survivability.How is this normally ruled? Does Dragon Totem work with Invulnerable Rager?
The wording of the dragon totem is a bit confusing, and I personally would love it if it worked that way, but seeing as the Increased DR rage power only gives you +1, and no other effects I'm pretty sure it only increases the DR for purposes of calculating the energy resistance.
|
|
Also the spirit totem rage powers. They aren't very useful of roost barbarians because they are based off of charisma. Things like automatically attacking adjacent enemies every round and giving you concealment.
Using the Spirit Totems now for my barbarian in Jade Regent, though with the negative energy damage house-ruled to holy damage.
Is goodfun even with just a 12 CHA.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Interesting. Unless I missed it, not one person has posted that he can play a barbarian NO MATTER whether or not he has his all his best stats in all the right places. It's not "viable"? Pray I never have to play with any of you guys! Sheesh. What if i had 12 str and 17 int and still wanted to play a freakin barbarian? You wouldn't let me? Because it's not optimised? Or because it's purposely "nerfed"? Oh no! I hear a lot of comments like "It's MAD" or a "badwrongfun feat chain" or "nerfed" etc. Big deal! C'mon guys, grow a character, not a statistical bell curve.
As to the OP, let him play this so totally "weird" barbarian. Just not a gnome. Or halfling. Or dwarf. Coz that's obviously badwrongfun for everybody. And the stats won't match the bell curve. ;p
|
Interesting. Unless I missed it, not one person has posted that he can play a barbarian NO MATTER whether or not he has his all his best stats in all the right places. It's not "viable"? Pray I never have to play with any of you guys! Sheesh. What if i had 12 str and 17 int and still wanted to play a freakin barbarian? You wouldn't let me? Because it's not optimised? Or because it's purposely "nerfed"? Oh no! I hear a lot of comments like "It's MAD" or a "badwrongfun feat chain" or "nerfed" etc. Big deal! C'mon guys, grow a character, not a statistical bell curve.
As to the OP, let him play this so totally "weird" barbarian. Just not a gnome. Or halfling. Or dwarf. Coz that's obviously badwrongfun for everybody. And the stats won't match the bell curve. ;p
And that is the problem with coming to a public forum and asking for advice.People will tell you their opinions on how you should do something, does that make their advice "badwrongfun" ?
The hazards of asking for advice on a public forum. You get what you ask for.
What if i had 12 str and 17 int and still wanted to play a freakin barbarian? You wouldn't let me? Because it's not optimised? Or because it's purposely "nerfed"?
Actually, none of this is about what I will or won't let him do. I'm just trying to gather advice to pass on to him, because he needs and wants it. I encourage all my players to be role-players, not just roll-players. This player is especially keen on that. He prefers RP encounters and content over pure combat. However, roll-playing and role-playing doesn't have to be opposites (it is, after all, a role-playing GAME). Part of role-playing a barbarian is feeling strong and powerful in combat. It is more fun for him to be able to contribute meaningfully to combat encounters, to be able to dish out and take some hits. I'm not forcing him to do anything with his character. I'm letting him play his character. I am, however, helping him improve his effectiveness because that's what he wants.
The hazards of asking for advice on a public forum. You get what you ask for
If only. While I have gotten a lot of what I asked for, and that's what's awesome about these boards, this time I have unfortunately also gotten a lot stuff that I didn't ask for and even a little that I specifically said I didn't need.
Still, I'm grateful for what I've gotten so far. Some of this will most likely end up influencing his character greatly.
One of the simplest bits of advice I can give here is try the armoured hulk archetype. They can then wear heavy armour if needed. Then they can make their barbarian how ever they want.
I have looked it over and it does indeed seem nice, but is there any real advantage to taking that instead of going Invulnerable Rager and taking the armor proficiency as a feat?
And I totally missed this from the OP:
I need advice that I can give him on how to build his barbarian effectively(and thoughts on how effective he can possibly get...)
So my post was pretty silly. No wonder no-one said his rolls don't matter. Effective is the key word here, Oceanshieldwolf! Totally exposing myself as a ranter against min/maxers and roll-players. Oh well. Apologies Mr Erth for ranting in your thread. I too agree, roll and role are not mutually exclusive. I am also impressed by the diligence and acumen of board members, if not their attitude towards play.
Still, we all know there isn't any badwrongfun really. (except playing gnomes, halflings or dwarves. That's a given!) :pCarry on!
[EDIT: Actually Chaos_Scion and glutton said the rolls aren't always important or are not that bad/are actually viable. Sorry to you guys. And well said:)]
|
|
In truth the invulnerable rager is nice if your going to use a lot of environmental situations like in the desert or frozen wastes. There selling point for me is that armoured hulk can work anywhere and he's harder to hit. His damage reduction may not be as good, but if its harder to hit you, you don't need to reduce any damage.
And I totally missed this from the OP:
I need advice that I can give him on how to build his barbarian effectively(and thoughts on how effective he can possibly get...)So my post was pretty silly. No wonder no-one said his rolls don't matter. Effective is the key word here, Oceanshieldwolf! Totally exposing myself as a ranter against min/maxers and roll-players. Oh well. Apologies Mr Erth for ranting in your thread.
Apology accepted :) I mostly agreed with the point you're trying to make, it was just a bit misplaced in this specific thread.
In truth the invulnerable rager is nice if your going to use a lot of environmental situations like in the desert or frozen wastes. There selling point for me is that armoured hulk can work anywhere and he's harder to hit. His damage reduction may not be as good, but if its harder to hit you, you don't need to reduce any damage.
Is the AC really going to be that good (even when raging)? 'Cause if it is, this seems like the natural choice. DR is best when you have max HP, AC works better when you're a bit squishy.
For a Charisma-based Barbarian (which can be a heck of a lot of fun to play), the Scarred Rager archetype is worth looking at.
Good feats (many of which have already been mentioned) - Antagonize, Intimidating Prowess, Dazzling Display, Skill Focus Intimidate. Intimidating Glare and Terrifying Howl are good Rage Powers.
And although they are not class skills, there's nothing wrong with a Barbarian who can Bluff or use Diplomacy either ... And among other barbarians, a Scarred Rager with some ranks in Diplomacy can practically get treated as nobility.
I'd say spirit over beast. While that would almost never be the case, taking advantage of that added charisma is sort of the point, right? A barbarian can translate that directly into damage with the spirit totem powers.